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Old 06-20-2004, 06:04 PM   #1
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I don't wanna compare the positive posts against the negative ones.
Its probably for the best.
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Old 06-20-2004, 06:13 PM   #2
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Costinha should be sent home or something after that miss. Nuno Gomes wasn't much better. He scored the hardest chance of the lot.

I reckon you'd have a better chance against Portugal to be honest.

And don't count your Croatian chickens before they hatch dude.
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Old 06-20-2004, 06:15 PM   #3
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I hope England just don't play for the draw against Croatia. They showed how much of a threat they are against France.
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Old 06-20-2004, 06:28 PM   #4
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And don't count your Croatian chickens before they hatch dude.
I definitley am not, I could not be any more pessimistic going into that game
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Old 06-20-2004, 06:30 PM   #5
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As I said, Croatia could still ruin it for us. If we play to our best, we'll win, but history has shown we don't always play to our best. Still, let's see how it goes...
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Old 06-20-2004, 07:28 PM   #6
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come on the Germans.

and Spain clearly aren't good enough, like in Hollands case, they are good on paper, thats it.
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Old 06-20-2004, 07:28 PM   #7
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If they were good enough, they'd be in the next round.
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Old 06-20-2004, 07:30 PM   #8
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If they were good enough, they'd be in the next round.
I didnt wanna state the obvious.
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Old 06-20-2004, 07:33 PM   #9
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If Spain always come off badly against smaller teams, then they aren't good enough and all the should've would've could'ves in the world won't change that.
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Old 06-20-2004, 07:39 PM   #10
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Why do you all selectively turn into idiots at times?

They were clearly good enough to devour Greece. They just didn't. It's a pity, Raul hasn't been on form this season, and if he was he'd have cleaned up those chances he had against the Greeks.

It was one of those days: nothing went in for Spain, no matter how hard they tried, while the Greeks had one clear chance and it sneaked in.

It's football, sometimes the best or most deserving don't win. I like to see the underdogs do well, but not ones as cynical as the Greek team has been. Their tactics against Spain were a triumph of cynicism and cheating over football, and any football fan should be worried about that, because it's becoming a common feature of the European and international games.
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Old 06-20-2004, 07:51 PM   #11
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Yeah we are all idiots.

Should I remind you they played 3 games and only won one?
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Old 06-20-2004, 07:54 PM   #12
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Yes, all our opinions differ from yours, we're idiots. I could note how you shot yourself in the foot by harping on about how Spains star striker has no form, thus meaning he at least certainly wasn't good enough, but that I guess would involve me selecting to turn into an idiot, so I shan't.
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Old 06-20-2004, 07:57 PM   #13
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Thanks for reminding of that, cheers.

Yet, they finished equal on points with the two sides who did qualify. It was by virtue of the difference of a single goal that they did not qualify.

You behave like an idiot if you pretend that things in football are so black and white.

If you genuinely believe Greece are a better team than Spain, then maybe you ought to think about having a quiet word with yourself.
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Old 06-20-2004, 07:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto
Thanks for reminding of that, cheers.

Yet, they finished equal on points with the two sides who did qualify. It was by virtue of the difference of a single goal that they did not qualify.

You behave like an idiot if you pretend that things in football are so black and white.

If you genuinely believe Greece are a better team than Spain, then maybe you ought to think about having a quiet word with yourself.
Portugal had 6 points, Greece had 4.
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Old 06-20-2004, 08:05 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Danny Electric
Portugal had 6 points, Greece had 4.
Ok, but the point still stands, as regards to the seperation of Greece and Spain.
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Old 06-20-2004, 08:00 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto
Thanks for reminding of that, cheers.

Yet, they finished equal on points with the two sides who did qualify. It was by virtue of the difference of a single goal that they did not qualify.

You behave like an idiot if you pretend that things in football are so black and white.

If you genuinely believe Greece are a better team than Spain, then maybe you ought to think about having a quiet word with yourself.
Greece may not be a better team, but they at least know how to take their chances in from of goals, and are a tactically better team then the Spanish.

Things aren't all black and white but your also kidding yourself is you think that only the Greeks cheat, Portugal have cheats in their team too, in fact, all teams have their share of divers and cunts, your a little too harsh on the Greeks.
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Old 06-20-2004, 08:02 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazz
Greece may not be a better team, but they at least know how to take their chances in from of goals, and are a tactically better team then the Spanish.

Things aren't all black and white but your also kidding yourself is you think that only the Greeks cheat, Portugal have cheats in their team too, in fact, all teams have their share of divers and cunts, your a little too harsh on the Greeks.
No, I don't think I am. And yes, Portugal do have a few cheats, Figo being the biggest of the lot, and I think they let themselves down by playing that way, but generally their progress is down to the talent of their players, and not the ability to disrupt the talent of others through foul means.
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Old 06-20-2004, 07:57 PM   #18
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But when was the last time Spain did any good? They haven't actually proved themselves for a while.
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Old 06-20-2004, 07:59 PM   #19
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Neither have alot of teams.

It doesn't change the fact that I'm disappointed that a team with world class players who aimed to play the right way, were held to a crucial draw by a Greek team whose sole tactic against them involved giving away free kicks and diving to break up the flow of the game.
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Old 06-20-2004, 08:03 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto
Neither have alot of teams.

It doesn't change the fact that I'm disappointed that a team with world class players who aimed to play the right way, were held to a crucial draw by a Greek team whose sole tactic against them involved giving away free kicks and diving to break up the flow of the game.
But its up to the ref to prevent it, its like if a team time wastes constantly, then it pisses me off, but its up to the referee and FIFA to do something about it. I seriously cannot believe you think they are that bad. If you have seen a team like Holland that have Van Der Vaart and Van Nistelrooy who are always cheating. Ferraira of Portugal doesn't exactly have a great reputation either, nor does Deco. Even the Germans and French have their cheaters. If you seriously beleive that the Greek's are the worst, you need to take a look at other teams.
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Old 06-20-2004, 08:06 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazz
But its up to the ref to prevent it, its like if a team time wastes constantly, then it pisses me off, but its up to the referee and FIFA to do something about it. I seriously cannot believe you think they are that bad. If you have seen a team like Holland that have Van Der Vaart and Van Nistelrooy who are always cheating. Ferraira of Portugal doesn't exactly have a great reputation either, nor does Deco. Even the Germans and French have their cheaters. If you seriously beleive that the Greek's are the worst, you need to take a look at other teams.
I didn't say the Greeks were the worst, but I haven't seen much worse than in their game against Spain.

3 of their 4 midfielders were booked in the first half, for repetitive fouling.
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Old 06-20-2004, 08:09 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto
I didn't say the Greeks were the worst, but I haven't seen much worse than in their game against Spain.

3 of their 4 midfielders were booked in the first half, for repetitive fouling.
But didn't you see the Russians against Spain, they commited even more fouls and they had alot of players booked in the first half too. Maybe the Spanish players are too quick or skillfull, or teams just can't keep up with their play. Russia did no different to Greece, they still have to be a half decent team to advance to th next stage ahead of Spain. The only team that stopped Spain qualifying for the next round is Spain.
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Old 06-20-2004, 08:12 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazz
But didn't you see the Russians against Spain, they commited even more fouls and they had alot of players booked in the first half too. Maybe the Spanish players are too quick or skillfull, or teams just can't keep up with their play. Russia did no different to Greece, they still have to be a half decent team to advance to th next stage ahead of Spain. The only team that stopped Spain qualifying for the next round is Spain.
I think the Spanish manager fucked up tonight, by dropping Morientes and Baraja. I'm disappointed, they have been one of the most impressive teams so far.

Still, hopefully Portugal will turn it on now, with a bit of home support and momentum behind them. It'd be good to see them win the lot, but their strikers are a bit shite, which is a problem.
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Old 06-20-2004, 08:00 PM   #24
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Saez playing Torres was a big mistake though, and possibly Xabi Alonso too. As brilliant as they are, they're too inexperienced to be starting a game of that magnitude ahead of Baraja and Morientes.
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Old 06-20-2004, 08:15 PM   #25
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It doesn't matter how cynical the play of the Greeks might be (and what complaints can you have if all these players got booked anyway) but if Spain were good enough to win the tournament, they would have gotten past a team like Greece. Besides, like Dazz said, there's a lot of teams going around doing the same sort of stuff.
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Old 06-20-2004, 08:22 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91
It doesn't matter how cynical the play of the Greeks might be (and what complaints can you have if all these players got booked anyway) but if Spain were good enough to win the tournament, they would have gotten past a team like Greece. Besides, like Dazz said, there's a lot of teams going around doing the same sort of stuff.
I know. I believe I already stated it's a problematic trend in international and European football.

I am just wondering why you and Rob are suddenly becoming selectively obtuse about my disappointment over a quality team being undeservedly eliminated. Every person who watches the sport realise the nature of the game that allows that to happen, and bemoans it at some point or another.

Unless you view it without any emotion whatsoever. Spain were my team for this competiton, so I'm disappointed.
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Old 06-20-2004, 08:30 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto
Unless you view it without any emotion whatsoever. Spain were my team for this competiton, so I'm disappointed.
Yeah I would be gutted if the Germans went out at the group stage, I have £15 saying they'll win it And a tenner on Italy.

But I agree about the cheating, and I cannot understand how Blatter tries to get involved in the way the F.A run the English game, yet he turns a blind eye to the dirtiest league of them all, the Argentian league. There should be better rules which are enforced with regards to diving and play acting. It was a joke that Rivaldo got a shit fine for his play acting in World Cup '02. At least with the Totti thing there are taking a step in the right direction, but the bastard should have been fined.
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Old 06-20-2004, 08:37 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Dazz
At least with the Totti thing there are taking a step in the right direction, but the bastard should have been fined.
He probably should have been, but how much difference would it make what with Tottis salary? If they fine him enough for it to actually make a difference, it'll probably be some ungodly sum that's not entirely fair. Still, maybe if it sends a message to everyone...

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto
Blatter is a huge fucking idiot. WHat about FIFA docking 6 WC qualifying points from Cameroon for wearing their all in one kit?

I think the 'roonians got the points back on appeal, but is it really such a big fucking deal in the grand scheme of the game.
So true. FIFA could have just told Cameroon to stop doing it and leave it at that, but oh well. Did I hear right that Blatter was proposing to abolish all draws in football as well?
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Old 06-20-2004, 08:42 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91
He probably should have been, but how much difference would it make what with Tottis salary? If they fine him enough for it to actually make a difference, it'll probably be some ungodly sum that's not entirely fair. Still, maybe if it sends a message to everyone...
They should have fined him two weeks wages, there shouldn't be a set amount players are fined, it should be a percentage of their salary, in Totti's case, 200% of it.

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Originally Posted by 91
So true. FIFA could have just told Cameroon to stop doing it and leave it at that, but oh well. Did I hear right that Blatter was proposing to abolish all draws in football as well?
Yeah he does want to abolish draws, but lets save any Blatter bashing for Rob Harveys thread he started last month, this is about the Euro's.
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Old 06-20-2004, 08:33 PM   #30
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Because it's typical Spain. They have all these great players on show and every year there's all this hype backing them, and every year they fizzle out without a trace. It reminds me of the Wales-Russia playoff. All this hype is built around Wales qualifying and after they lose (again), Gary Speed, close to tears, states that they just aren't good enough to qualify for a major tournament. I just can't sit here and get attached to Spain. Besides, after their first two games, if England don't win it, I'm much more behind Sweden. They've REALLY impressed me so far.

It's the same sort of thing with England - if they trounce Croatia tomorrow, then they'll definitely be looking like a half decent outside bet. If they blow it again (ala Euro 2000), then it'll just be another case of them not being good enough, and we'll see in two years for the World Cup.
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Old 06-20-2004, 08:39 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91
Because it's typical Spain. They have all these great players on show and every year there's all this hype backing them, and every year they fizzle out without a trace. It reminds me of the Wales-Russia playoff. All this hype is built around Wales qualifying and after they lose (again), Gary Speed, close to tears, states that they just aren't good enough to qualify for a major tournament. I just can't sit here and get attached to Spain. Besides, after their first two games, if England don't win it, I'm much more behind Sweden. They've REALLY impressed me so far.

It's the same sort of thing with England - if they trounce Croatia tomorrow, then they'll definitely be looking like a half decent outside bet. If they blow it again (ala Euro 2000), then it'll just be another case of them not being good enough, and we'll see in two years for the World Cup.
I would say that Sweden won't get further then the semi's and England won't get further then the quarters, because thats what I truely believe, but in all honestly, no one has really been convincing so far and I guess it seems that teams like Sweden have as good a chance as any at getting to the final. The game tomorrow will be very close, I can see one goal being in it.
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Old 06-20-2004, 08:34 PM   #32
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Blatter is a huge fucking idiot. WHat about FIFA docking 6 WC qualifying points from Cameroon for wearing their all in one kit?

I think the 'roonians got the points back on appeal, but is it really such a big fucking deal in the grand scheme of the game.
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Old 06-20-2004, 08:39 PM   #33
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Ariel Ortega was fined £6 million or something crazy like that for breach of contract at Fenebahce.
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Old 06-21-2004, 09:01 AM   #34
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Ariel Ortega was fined £6 million or something crazy like that for breach of contract at Fenebahce.
I believe he was sued by Fenarbache.
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Old 06-21-2004, 09:54 AM   #35
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I believe he was sued by Fenarbache.
He probably was, but FIFA imposed the fine.
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Old 06-20-2004, 08:41 PM   #36
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No one has been convincing because the quality of the teams is so high throughout the competition.

The problem with England is the obvious indecision over what the best system is, and the confusion over the best line up. Also, the defence looks decidedly dodgy. A plus point is England's potential to score goals, but a huge negative is the inability to retain possession.
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Old 06-20-2004, 09:59 PM   #37
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Old 06-21-2004, 12:56 AM   #38
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I wish I had put a bet on the Czechs now.
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Old 06-21-2004, 08:07 AM   #39
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I wish I had put a bet on the Czechs now.
word

COME ON ENGLAND
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Old 06-21-2004, 08:28 AM   #40
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