Euro 2004 Predictions

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Pissed off. Wanted Spain to finally do it this year, now they're out because of those fucking Greek cheating bastards.

[Dazz]

The Greeks will get whats coming to them when they play France. They are not going to get far, and anways, its always good to see one of the favourites eliminated

[Rob]

I don't wanna compare the positive posts against the negative ones.

[Dazz]

Originally Posted by Rob I don't wanna compare the positive posts against the negative ones.

Its probably for the best.

[Rob]

Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto Pissed off. Wanted Spain to finally do it this year, now they're out because of those fucking Greek cheating bastards.

Not out because they aren't good enough? Or that they never do anything in major tournaments?

[91]

Originally Posted by Rob As for Strachan's accent, you have a nerve! You forget Geordie, Yorkshire and Scouse accents?

Believe me, I try.

Quite a good game at the end there. Portugal did OK, but they still seemed to be lacking something. That Costinha header at the end... oh dear god, anyone who gets paid to play football full time should NOT be missing chances like that. That really is one of those chances that I probably could have scored. Assuming England come second in their group (if France were to slip up against the Swiss, we could still top it, and of course Croatia could ruin everything for us) it'll be a tough game. Portugal will need to up their game a bit though.

As for Greece, good for them. I always like to see one of the minnows of the tournament doing well. Pity they didn't top the group though, I would have really fancied us against them. Cest la vie.

[Rob]

Costinha should be sent home or something after that miss. Nuno Gomes wasn't much better. He scored the hardest chance of the lot.

I reckon you'd have a better chance against Portugal to be honest.

And don't count your Croatian chickens before they hatch dude.

[Danny Electric]

I hope England just don't play for the draw against Croatia. They showed how much of a threat they are against France.

[Dazz]

Originally Posted by Rob And don't count your Croatian chickens before they hatch dude.

I definitley am not, I could not be any more pessimistic going into that game

[91]

As I said, Croatia could still ruin it for us. If we play to our best, we'll win, but history has shown we don't always play to our best. Still, let's see how it goes...

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Originally Posted by Rob Not out because they aren't good enough? Or that they never do anything in major tournaments?

They obviously were good enough. They always tend to come off badly against smaller sides like Greece, but they really should have trounced them. Should have been going into tonight's game already through.

There are only 2 teams in the competition who can say "really do anything" at tournaments, and that's Germany and France.

[Dazz]

come on the Germans.

and Spain clearly aren't good enough, like in Hollands case, they are good on paper, thats it.

[Rob]

If they were good enough, they'd be in the next round.

[Dazz]

Originally Posted by Rob If they were good enough, they'd be in the next round.

I didnt wanna state the obvious.

[91]

If Spain always come off badly against smaller teams, then they aren't good enough and all the should've would've could'ves in the world won't change that.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Why do you all selectively turn into idiots at times?

They were clearly good enough to devour Greece. They just didn't. It's a pity, Raul hasn't been on form this season, and if he was he'd have cleaned up those chances he had against the Greeks.

It was one of those days: nothing went in for Spain, no matter how hard they tried, while the Greeks had one clear chance and it sneaked in.

It's football, sometimes the best or most deserving don't win. I like to see the underdogs do well, but not ones as cynical as the Greek team has been. Their tactics against Spain were a triumph of cynicism and cheating over football, and any football fan should be worried about that, because it's becoming a common feature of the European and international games.

[Rob]

Yeah we are all idiots.

Should I remind you they played 3 games and only won one?

[91]

Yes, all our opinions differ from yours, we're idiots. I could note how you shot yourself in the foot by harping on about how Spains star striker has no form, thus meaning he at least certainly wasn't good enough, but that I guess would involve me selecting to turn into an idiot, so I shan't.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Thanks for reminding of that, cheers.

Yet, they finished equal on points with the two sides who did qualify. It was by virtue of the difference of a single goal that they did not qualify.

You behave like an idiot if you pretend that things in football are so black and white.

If you genuinely believe Greece are a better team than Spain, then maybe you ought to think about having a quiet word with yourself.

[Dazz]

But when was the last time Spain did any good? They haven't actually proved themselves for a while.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Neither have alot of teams.

It doesn't change the fact that I'm disappointed that a team with world class players who aimed to play the right way, were held to a crucial draw by a Greek team whose sole tactic against them involved giving away free kicks and diving to break up the flow of the game.

[Danny Electric]

Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto Thanks for reminding of that, cheers. Yet, they finished equal on points with the two sides who did qualify. It was by virtue of the difference of a single goal that they did not qualify. You behave like an idiot if you pretend that things in football are so black and white. If you genuinely believe Greece are a better team than Spain, then maybe you ought to think about having a quiet word with yourself.

Portugal had 6 points, Greece had 4.

[Dazz]

Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto Thanks for reminding of that, cheers. Yet, they finished equal on points with the two sides who did qualify. It was by virtue of the difference of a single goal that they did not qualify. You behave like an idiot if you pretend that things in football are so black and white. If you genuinely believe Greece are a better team than Spain, then maybe you ought to think about having a quiet word with yourself.

Greece may not be a better team, but they at least know how to take their chances in from of goals, and are a tactically better team then the Spanish.

Things aren't all black and white but your also kidding yourself is you think that only the Greeks cheat, Portugal have cheats in their team too, in fact, all teams have their share of divers and cunts, your a little too harsh on the Greeks.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Saez playing Torres was a big mistake though, and possibly Xabi Alonso too. As brilliant as they are, they're too inexperienced to be starting a game of that magnitude ahead of Baraja and Morientes.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Originally Posted by Dazz Greece may not be a better team, but they at least know how to take their chances in from of goals, and are a tactically better team then the Spanish. Things aren't all black and white but your also kidding yourself is you think that only the Greeks cheat, Portugal have cheats in their team too, in fact, all teams have their share of divers and cunts, your a little too harsh on the Greeks.

No, I don't think I am. And yes, Portugal do have a few cheats, Figo being the biggest of the lot, and I think they let themselves down by playing that way, but generally their progress is down to the talent of their players, and not the ability to disrupt the talent of others through foul means.

[Dazz]

Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto Neither have alot of teams. It doesn't change the fact that I'm disappointed that a team with world class players who aimed to play the right way, were held to a crucial draw by a Greek team whose sole tactic against them involved giving away free kicks and diving to break up the flow of the game.

But its up to the ref to prevent it, its like if a team time wastes constantly, then it pisses me off, but its up to the referee and FIFA to do something about it. I seriously cannot believe you think they are that bad. If you have seen a team like Holland that have Van Der Vaart and Van Nistelrooy who are always cheating. Ferraira of Portugal doesn't exactly have a great reputation either, nor does Deco. Even the Germans and French have their cheaters. If you seriously beleive that the Greek's are the worst, you need to take a look at other teams.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Originally Posted by Danny Electric Portugal had 6 points, Greece had 4.

Ok, but the point still stands, as regards to the seperation of Greece and Spain.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Originally Posted by Dazz But its up to the ref to prevent it, its like if a team time wastes constantly, then it pisses me off, but its up to the referee and FIFA to do something about it. I seriously cannot believe you think they are that bad. If you have seen a team like Holland that have Van Der Vaart and Van Nistelrooy who are always cheating. Ferraira of Portugal doesn't exactly have a great reputation either, nor does Deco. Even the Germans and French have their cheaters. If you seriously beleive that the Greek's are the worst, you need to take a look at other teams.

I didn't say the Greeks were the worst, but I haven't seen much worse than in their game against Spain.

3 of their 4 midfielders were booked in the first half, for repetitive fouling.

[Dazz]

Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto I didn't say the Greeks were the worst, but I haven't seen much worse than in their game against Spain. 3 of their 4 midfielders were booked in the first half, for repetitive fouling.

But didn't you see the Russians against Spain, they commited even more fouls and they had alot of players booked in the first half too. Maybe the Spanish players are too quick or skillfull, or teams just can't keep up with their play. Russia did no different to Greece, they still have to be a half decent team to advance to th next stage ahead of Spain. The only team that stopped Spain qualifying for the next round is Spain.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Originally Posted by Dazz But didn't you see the Russians against Spain, they commited even more fouls and they had alot of players booked in the first half too. Maybe the Spanish players are too quick or skillfull, or teams just can't keep up with their play. Russia did no different to Greece, they still have to be a half decent team to advance to th next stage ahead of Spain. The only team that stopped Spain qualifying for the next round is Spain.

I think the Spanish manager fucked up tonight, by dropping Morientes and Baraja. I'm disappointed, they have been one of the most impressive teams so far.

Still, hopefully Portugal will turn it on now, with a bit of home support and momentum behind them. It'd be good to see them win the lot, but their strikers are a bit shite, which is a problem.

[91]

It doesn't matter how cynical the play of the Greeks might be (and what complaints can you have if all these players got booked anyway) but if Spain were good enough to win the tournament, they would have gotten past a team like Greece. Besides, like Dazz said, there's a lot of teams going around doing the same sort of stuff.

[Dazz]

Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto I think the Spanish manager fucked up tonight, by dropping Morientes and Baraja. I'm disappointed, they have been one of the most impressive teams so far. Still, hopefully Portugal will turn it on now, with a bit of home support and momentum behind them. It'd be good to see them win the lot, but their strikers are a bit shite, which is a problem.

I think its more morons like Costinha they should be worrying about.

And yeah thats what I mean about Spain, them going through is because of themselves and not Greece. The Greece manager got it right tactically and his team who arrived as outsiders to qualify, shocked alot of people. Spain were never looking like they were going to win today, and if they had gone through I couldn't see them doing much else. As Ranieri showed against Monaco in the 1st leg, if a manager fucks up he has no one else to blame. The manager can't come out and say "we were unlucky, we had so many chances but were unlucky to put them away" IF they were a good enough team then thats what the manager would be saying, but clealy they are not good enough. I find it hard to believe that had he had the two players you mentioned playing that they would have done any better.

[91]

Originally Posted by Dazz I think its more morons like Costinha they should be worrying about. And yeah thats what I mean about Spain, them going through is because of themselves and not Greece. The Greece manager got it right tactically and his team who arrived as outsiders to qualify, shocked alot of people. Spain were never looking like they were going to win today, and if they had gone through I couldn't see them doing much else. As Ranieri showed against Monaco in the 1st leg, if a manager fucks up he has no one else to blame. The manager can't come out and say "we were unlucky, we had so many chances but were unlucky to put them away" IF they were a good enough team then thats what the manager would be saying, but clealy they are not good enough. I find it hard to believe that had he had the two players you mentioned playing that they would have done any better.

Too true - the manager is just as an important part of the team as the players. France are heavily regarded as the favourites, but if I was managing them, forget it, there's no way they'd stand a hope in hell.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Originally Posted by 91 It doesn't matter how cynical the play of the Greeks might be (and what complaints can you have if all these players got booked anyway) but if Spain were good enough to win the tournament, they would have gotten past a team like Greece. Besides, like Dazz said, there's a lot of teams going around doing the same sort of stuff.

I know. I believe I already stated it's a problematic trend in international and European football.

I am just wondering why you and Rob are suddenly becoming selectively obtuse about my disappointment over a quality team being undeservedly eliminated. Every person who watches the sport realise the nature of the game that allows that to happen, and bemoans it at some point or another.

Unless you view it without any emotion whatsoever. Spain were my team for this competiton, so I'm disappointed.

[Dazz]

Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto Unless you view it without any emotion whatsoever. Spain were my team for this competiton, so I'm disappointed.

Yeah I would be gutted if the Germans went out at the group stage, I have £15 saying they'll win it And a tenner on Italy.

But I agree about the cheating, and I cannot understand how Blatter tries to get involved in the way the F.A run the English game, yet he turns a blind eye to the dirtiest league of them all, the Argentian league. There should be better rules which are enforced with regards to diving and play acting. It was a joke that Rivaldo got a shit fine for his play acting in World Cup '02. At least with the Totti thing there are taking a step in the right direction, but the bastard should have been fined.

[91]

Because it's typical Spain. They have all these great players on show and every year there's all this hype backing them, and every year they fizzle out without a trace. It reminds me of the Wales-Russia playoff. All this hype is built around Wales qualifying and after they lose (again), Gary Speed, close to tears, states that they just aren't good enough to qualify for a major tournament. I just can't sit here and get attached to Spain. Besides, after their first two games, if England don't win it, I'm much more behind Sweden. They've REALLY impressed me so far.

It's the same sort of thing with England - if they trounce Croatia tomorrow, then they'll definitely be looking like a half decent outside bet. If they blow it again (ala Euro 2000), then it'll just be another case of them not being good enough, and we'll see in two years for the World Cup.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Blatter is a huge fucking idiot. WHat about FIFA docking 6 WC qualifying points from Cameroon for wearing their all in one kit?

I think the 'roonians got the points back on appeal, but is it really such a big fucking deal in the grand scheme of the game.

[91]

Originally Posted by Dazz At least with the Totti thing there are taking a step in the right direction, but the bastard should have been fined.

He probably should have been, but how much difference would it make what with Tottis salary? If they fine him enough for it to actually make a difference, it'll probably be some ungodly sum that's not entirely fair. Still, maybe if it sends a message to everyone...

Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto Blatter is a huge fucking idiot. WHat about FIFA docking 6 WC qualifying points from Cameroon for wearing their all in one kit? I think the 'roonians got the points back on appeal, but is it really such a big fucking deal in the grand scheme of the game.

So true. FIFA could have just told Cameroon to stop doing it and leave it at that, but oh well. Did I hear right that Blatter was proposing to abolish all draws in football as well?

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Ariel Ortega was fined £6 million or something crazy like that for breach of contract at Fenebahce.

[Dazz]

Originally Posted by 91 Because it's typical Spain. They have all these great players on show and every year there's all this hype backing them, and every year they fizzle out without a trace. It reminds me of the Wales-Russia playoff. All this hype is built around Wales qualifying and after they lose (again), Gary Speed, close to tears, states that they just aren't good enough to qualify for a major tournament. I just can't sit here and get attached to Spain. Besides, after their first two games, if England don't win it, I'm much more behind Sweden. They've REALLY impressed me so far. It's the same sort of thing with England - if they trounce Croatia tomorrow, then they'll definitely be looking like a half decent outside bet. If they blow it again (ala Euro 2000), then it'll just be another case of them not being good enough, and we'll see in two years for the World Cup.

I would say that Sweden won't get further then the semi's and England won't get further then the quarters, because thats what I truely believe, but in all honestly, no one has really been convincing so far and I guess it seems that teams like Sweden have as good a chance as any at getting to the final. The game tomorrow will be very close, I can see one goal being in it.