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Old 07-14-2018, 12:26 PM   #1
Evil Vito
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Holy shit Rocky mentioning that Juice Robinson and Tanga Los are former FCW Tag Team Champions.
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Old 07-14-2018, 03:36 PM   #2
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Jay White must have studied some WWE tapes recently since that low blow to Okada was worthy of Nakamura's seal of approval.
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Old 07-14-2018, 03:48 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Emperor Smeat View Post
Jay White must have studied some WWE tapes recently since that low blow to Okada was worthy of Nakamura's seal of approval.
Or he just learned from Yano.
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Old 07-14-2018, 03:50 PM   #4
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I based my Survivor pick on the night 1 Main Event unfolding the way it did. Now I find it doesn’t start until tomorrow, and there’s a very real chance he doesn’t eat a pin the rest of the way.

I fucked up.
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Old 07-14-2018, 05:09 PM   #5
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This NJPW stuff is incredible. I've just recently started getting into it.

When the did Juice win that title? Didnt Jay White have it?
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Old 07-14-2018, 05:16 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purgatory View Post
This NJPW stuff is incredible. I've just recently started getting into it.

When the did Juice win that title? Didnt Jay White have it?
At last weekend's G1 Special in the US.
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Old 07-14-2018, 05:34 PM   #7
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oh ok. I must not have watched that one. I usually catch their shows on allwrestling.org.
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Old 07-15-2018, 07:59 AM   #8
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[G1 Spoilers] Kota Ibushi vs Zack Sabre Jr. from r/SquaredCircle
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Old 07-15-2018, 08:10 AM   #9
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Old 07-15-2018, 11:52 PM   #10
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Sabre/Ibushi and Omega/Naito were outstanding.
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Old 07-15-2018, 11:58 PM   #11
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I need a fucking cigarette. My god.
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Old 07-15-2018, 11:59 PM   #12
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Compare that with Extreme Rules tonight...

NJPW was night and day better
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Old 07-16-2018, 01:13 AM   #13
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ZSJ is quickly becoming my favorite wrestler. He's so unique, odd, comes off so effeminate but always a serious threat to put anyone down for a pin or submission. He is one of a kind for sure.
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Old 07-17-2018, 12:46 AM   #14
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Quote:
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ZSJ is quickly becoming my favorite wrestler. He's so unique, odd, comes off so effeminate but always a serious threat to put
anyone down for a pin or submission. He is one of a kind for sure.
I can watch his matches all damn day. He always busts something out that I’ve never seen before.
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Old 07-16-2018, 01:14 AM   #15
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NJPW's roster comes off like the early Tekken roster. It's so fucking alive I love it.
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Old 07-16-2018, 01:15 AM   #16
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Okay the "CAN'T STOP LOVING" t-shirt is really cool. I'd wear it.
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Old 07-16-2018, 02:45 AM   #17
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Kind of funny when you think about it on how Japanese chairs are pretty much the opposite of Japanese tables. If Japanese tables have the rep of being almost indestructible, Japanese chairs are the complete opposite with how easy it is to break one.

Even with the soft shot by White to Tanahashi during last night's G1 event, the chair still broke apart. Suzuki pretty much goes through chairs like Jarrett does with guitars.
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Old 07-16-2018, 02:56 AM   #18
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Yeah tbh they shouldn't really worry about unprotected shots that shit doesn't hurt.
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Old 07-16-2018, 03:32 AM   #19
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Good finishing stretch on Yoshi vs Makabe.
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Old 07-16-2018, 06:28 AM   #20
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Mutoh didn't win the 91 G1 Kelly, you hack.
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Old 07-16-2018, 09:56 AM   #21
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Fignuts has no room for error on historical reference! Brutal!
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Old 07-16-2018, 02:48 PM   #22
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Its literally one of the most important matches in NJPW history, figger it out
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Old 07-16-2018, 02:51 PM   #23
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Fignuts has CENA NUFF

...wait that doesn't work in this thread

Fignuts says OKADA BE KIDDING ME!
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Old 07-16-2018, 02:53 PM   #24
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brutal
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:26 PM   #25
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Damn. Already a lot of great matches, as well as unfolding stories. Really liking the Jay White/Chaos stuff. Firing Squad using OG Bullet Club tactics is also cool. Okada 0 for 2 is crazy.
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Old 07-16-2018, 11:20 PM   #26
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THANK YOU FALE *clap clap clapclapclap*
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Old 07-17-2018, 12:28 AM   #27
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I thought Okada starting 0-2 had an outside shot of happening simply because I could see him now ripping off 6 or 7 in a row to get to the finals anyway, that's got Gedo's fingerprints all over it.

Suzuki starting 0-2 on the other hand kinda shocks me. Definitely figured he'd go over Makabe who's done a whole lot of nothing this year.
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Old 07-17-2018, 12:48 AM   #28
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I'm actually batting 1.000 on watching the full show so far. Having said that, I'm probably gonna be skipping the opening tags fairly soon since I'm not going to have three hours to burn every night.

They're an asset because they build the story for the next set of Block matches, but at the same time they're also pretty formulaic.
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Old 07-17-2018, 07:22 PM   #29
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I'm about to watch Omega vs. Naito. Kenny not looking like an asshole with his facial expressions.
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Old 07-17-2018, 07:29 PM   #30
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Old 07-17-2018, 08:01 PM   #31
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My thoughts. If you don't want to read them don't read them. They're not positive:

SPOILER: show

* Kevin Kelly doing his best to add to the conflict. Good stuff. Then he goes into the Meltzer scale. These guys are equally matched -- there's a good point there. Don't need to hear "5 and 3/4 stars" being uttered seriously though.

* Who is the third person on commentary? They fucking suck.

* Callis bringing up "7 stars." Fuck off. The goal of wrestling is not to have a good match. Your goal is to hype the product, sure, but hyperbole can make things inaccessible too. "The greatest match of all-time." It wasn't. Get people expecting that and they will be disappointed.

* "Is Kenny Omega the greatest IWGP Heavyweight Champion of all-time?" Fucking hell, Callis is awful.

* Naito charismatic as hell, by the way.

* "You can't escape." That's lame.

* Fuck, he did it twice. Hahahaha.

* Omega's doing the faces now.

* This has been very WWE style so far. Lots of spots that happen for the sake of doing the spots. Naito spat in Omega's face and then turned away. Omega holds up the mats so Naito can jump into him. It's lacking that fight psychology that I'm a huge fan of.

* Kenny with a springboard crossbody into the crowd. It feels like they've done this so many times before though. And indeed commentary points that out. Is there a secret to emotionally investing in this?

* I saw a move I really liked. Omega hit this delayed gutwrench powerbomb. Then that third dick on commentary has to make sure he inserts it's called "The Dr. Wily Bomb" and Callis is such an ass-crawler that he adjusts his call.

* I just can't understand how these string of moves doesn't feel repetitive to people in 2018. This is my exact problem with WWE.

* My thoughts keep going to Ziggler/Rollins. If that match happened in New Japan, it would probably be better. Or if Omega/Naito happened in WWE, it would be considered about on par with that.

* Callis finally makes a good call when he sees Naito's foot hooking the turnbuckle.

* You mean one finisher didn't do it?! No way! Destino is a silly move, by the way. Looks more effort to hit than a normal Reverse DDT.

* Why keep going for a move where you put yourself on the guy's shoulders for his move?

* Hahaha, Naito tried his silly finisher again and got dropped on his head. Maybe he's learnt a lesson?

* I think what bothers me about this spotty style is that when you know the moves are safe, as presumably the audience secretly does, then just doing a move and getting a two count is arbitrary. Anyone can do it. The artistry in a false finish is in knowing when and how to do a move that would normally get a three count yet doesn't. I don't think Kenny Omega has ever won a match with the Jay Driller. Maybe he has, but I don't expect that to be the finish of an Omega/Naito match. This would be like The Rock beating Austin with his Samoan drop.

* If I had to rank the match, and I use a cinematic 1-4 scale, with 4 being great, 3 being good, 2 being average, 1 being bad, and 0 being awful, I'd probably give it **. It really did feel like an "average match" by today's standards. The execution was good, and it did get the crowd into it, but the psychology and the story were just not there, despite Kelly trying to introduce it at the start. There was nothing from Naito or Omega that really added to that.

* I don't think modern wrestling is for me. It feels like TNA's X-Division has taken over the main event and is presented like serious drama instead of popcorn filler. I've watched a bit of 90's Japan recently, and the emotion and the drama hooked me instantly. It felt like there were great stakes. You hear that Japanese crowds are quiet. Not so when watching the stuff they really care about. None of that drama was mined here. This was a WWE-style match with WWE-style commentary. The presentation was great. It felt like they wanted it to have a sporting environment, but the sporting psychology was just not there. Most of the things (not everything) they did was crisp, but I just can't get into guys hitting obscure drivers and then being surprised when they don't get the win when there hasn't been at least two finishers in 2018. I really want New Japan to succeed, but it feels like more of the same. I don't think it's for me.
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Old 07-18-2018, 08:14 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
My thoughts. If you don't want to read them don't read them. They're not positive:

SPOILER: show

* Kevin Kelly doing his best to add to the conflict. Good stuff. Then he goes into the Meltzer scale. These guys are equally matched -- there's a good point there. Don't need to hear "5 and 3/4 stars" being uttered seriously though.

* Who is the third person on commentary? They fucking suck.

* Callis bringing up "7 stars." Fuck off. The goal of wrestling is not to have a good match. Your goal is to hype the product, sure, but hyperbole can make things inaccessible too. "The greatest match of all-time." It wasn't. Get people expecting that and they will be disappointed.

* "Is Kenny Omega the greatest IWGP Heavyweight Champion of all-time?" Fucking hell, Callis is awful.

* Naito charismatic as hell, by the way.

* "You can't escape." That's lame.

* Fuck, he did it twice. Hahahaha.

* Omega's doing the faces now.

* This has been very WWE style so far. Lots of spots that happen for the sake of doing the spots. Naito spat in Omega's face and then turned away. Omega holds up the mats so Naito can jump into him. It's lacking that fight psychology that I'm a huge fan of.

* Kenny with a springboard crossbody into the crowd. It feels like they've done this so many times before though. And indeed commentary points that out. Is there a secret to emotionally investing in this?

* I saw a move I really liked. Omega hit this delayed gutwrench powerbomb. Then that third dick on commentary has to make sure he inserts it's called "The Dr. Wily Bomb" and Callis is such an ass-crawler that he adjusts his call.

* I just can't understand how these string of moves doesn't feel repetitive to people in 2018. This is my exact problem with WWE.

* My thoughts keep going to Ziggler/Rollins. If that match happened in New Japan, it would probably be better. Or if Omega/Naito happened in WWE, it would be considered about on par with that.

* Callis finally makes a good call when he sees Naito's foot hooking the turnbuckle.

* You mean one finisher didn't do it?! No way! Destino is a silly move, by the way. Looks more effort to hit than a normal Reverse DDT.

* Why keep going for a move where you put yourself on the guy's shoulders for his move?

* Hahaha, Naito tried his silly finisher again and got dropped on his head. Maybe he's learnt a lesson?

* I think what bothers me about this spotty style is that when you know the moves are safe, as presumably the audience secretly does, then just doing a move and getting a two count is arbitrary. Anyone can do it. The artistry in a false finish is in knowing when and how to do a move that would normally get a three count yet doesn't. I don't think Kenny Omega has ever won a match with the Jay Driller. Maybe he has, but I don't expect that to be the finish of an Omega/Naito match. This would be like The Rock beating Austin with his Samoan drop.

* If I had to rank the match, and I use a cinematic 1-4 scale, with 4 being great, 3 being good, 2 being average, 1 being bad, and 0 being awful, I'd probably give it **. It really did feel like an "average match" by today's standards. The execution was good, and it did get the crowd into it, but the psychology and the story were just not there, despite Kelly trying to introduce it at the start. There was nothing from Naito or Omega that really added to that.

* I don't think modern wrestling is for me. It feels like TNA's X-Division has taken over the main event and is presented like serious drama instead of popcorn filler. I've watched a bit of 90's Japan recently, and the emotion and the drama hooked me instantly. It felt like there were great stakes. You hear that Japanese crowds are quiet. Not so when watching the stuff they really care about. None of that drama was mined here. This was a WWE-style match with WWE-style commentary. The presentation was great. It felt like they wanted it to have a sporting environment, but the sporting psychology was just not there. Most of the things (not everything) they did was crisp, but I just can't get into guys hitting obscure drivers and then being surprised when they don't get the win when there hasn't been at least two finishers in 2018. I really want New Japan to succeed, but it feels like more of the same. I don't think it's for me.
I can totally understand why that match and other NJPW big matches lately remind you of WWE style. I like to call it American Crash style because they are still doing a much more edgy match than WWE does. I don't agree with all your opinions but they are valid and I appreciate you actually sitting down and watching to try it out.

There certainly is a new style creeping into NJPW that wouldn't jive with the traditional strong style NJPW built its foundation on. Strong Style Evolved? Sure that title works.

I could critique NJPW on pushing so many on-Japanese Stars right now, it doesn't bother me but it's noticeable.

Omega says it all the time, he's not a great wrestler, that there are many better than him. He is a phenomenal talent that has enough wherewithal to understand what he needs to do to have the best match possible. His matches stand out and when he is working with a guy who is a great wrestler (Okada, Natio) he's having phenomenal matches, the best in the world, he's evolving wrestling to something bigger.

On commentary... I used to really be harsh on Kevin Kelly but the more I get into the product the more I have to attribute that to him. His knowledge and education during commentary is fantastic. It is odd to hear wrestlers and announcers talk about match ratings, but that is a part of NJPW... Kenny's gimmick is "Best Bout Machine", and it draws big time for them. It works, and it's legit, a lot of people tune in to NJPW to see the best matches and they don't hide the fact that amazing matches is what sets them apart from WWE.

The commentator you don't like is Rocky Romero and I can totally understand why, he has no finesse. But for myself I do enjoy having him there to educate me on the characters and product.

The only concern I have for NJPW right now (and for the past 3 years) is that I don't see the next great Japanese superstar. They have to hang onto Tanahashi, and rightfully so, he's the legit ace of NJPW. They have Okada, Suzuki and Naito but beyond that I don't see the next guy, which is why there are so many non-Japanese stars filling the roster right now. I do agree that they should push the best talent they have regardless of nationality but I want to see the next great Japanese star. Any of you guys see that star on the horizon?
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Old 07-17-2018, 08:22 PM   #33
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Callis’s whole gimmick is being an Omega fanboy Noid
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Old 07-18-2018, 04:42 AM   #34
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Callis’s whole gimmick is being an Omega fanboy Noid
Oh, I can get that with the horrible backstories he gave him. It doesn't make it bearable.
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Old 07-17-2018, 08:23 PM   #35
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I want Fale to win everything
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Old 07-17-2018, 10:12 PM   #36
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My thing with Naito is that he is what Omega thinks he is: a cool heel.

That said I want to set Jackyl on fire, figuratively. Or be meaner and lock him in a cage with Suzuki.
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Old 07-18-2018, 08:13 AM   #37
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Noid - just do yourself a favor and watch Minoru Suzuki’s matches before throwing in the towel on the company over one match
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Old 07-18-2018, 11:12 AM   #38
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I LOVE everything I’ve seen from Suzuki. And I think Tanahashi is one of the best babyfaces I have ever seen. I may have been hasty earlier. I like a lot of stuff I’ve seen from New Japan. I’m just worried the compass is set and the trends in WWE and New Japan are going to mirror each other.

I might give ZSJ and Ibushi a go. I feel it might have more of a story I can bite into.
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Old 07-18-2018, 11:21 AM   #39
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Well worth checking that match out. While I'm not a fan of Kevin Kelly, one thing I do appreciate is that he tends to bring up past match history between guys when they have singles matches and quite often the matches build on each other. You get a real sense that the wrestlers actually learn and improve from mistakes in previous matches.

As opposed to WWE, where the same two guys can wrestle several weeks in a row and have the same exact match every time.
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Old 07-18-2018, 06:26 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #BrotherVito DELETED View Post
Well worth checking that match out. While I'm not a fan of Kevin Kelly, one thing I do appreciate is that he tends to bring up past match history between guys when they have singles matches and quite often the matches build on each other. You get a real sense that the wrestlers actually learn and improve from mistakes in previous matches.

As opposed to WWE, where the same two guys can wrestle several weeks in a row and have the same exact match every time.
Kevin Kelly seems like he tries to bring in some history. I don’t like him as a play-by-play guy, but he tries in that “Professor” role. Michael Cole does a similar thing when left to his own devices.

That’s true about them building off their previous work. I haven’t seen any other Baito/Omega match so I don’t have context for that. I don’t think it would help me enjoy the style any more, but it might give me something to appreciate. I loved it when Styles, Nakamura and Bryan did that earlier this year. It does happen I’m WWE sometimes, but as a general rule I think you’re right.
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