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Old 06-22-2004, 05:49 PM   #1
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Had to feel sorry for the lad though, i mean after he scored and was told the news he just lay down motionless on the floor.
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Old 06-22-2004, 05:52 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WWEngland
Had to feel sorry for the lad though, i mean after he scored and was told the news he just lay down motionless on the floor.
Yeah, I was listening to the game on BBC and they said he didn't even want to play anymore after that.
 
Old 06-22-2004, 05:56 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
Yeah, I was listening to the game on BBC and they said he didn't even want to play anymore after that.
I don't think he touched the ball after the kick off following his goal, every player stopped trying their best after that, understandably.
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Old 06-22-2004, 05:50 PM   #4
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Boo hoo for Italy. Try being Scottish.
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Old 06-22-2004, 05:53 PM   #5
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Boo hoo for Italy. Try being Scottish.
Now they've gone out of the first round, they can sympathise.
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Old 06-22-2004, 05:50 PM   #6
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Hey Rob, there was a piece in todays paper about how Gordon Strachan is unintelligible. Seriously. Told you.
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Old 06-22-2004, 05:51 PM   #7
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What paper? The Sport?
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Old 06-22-2004, 05:53 PM   #8
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England finishing second actually means we avoid Czech Republic until the final, if we get there, i think.
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Old 06-22-2004, 05:54 PM   #9
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Daily Mail.
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Old 06-22-2004, 05:56 PM   #10
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Did Italy surrender a penalty kick when they lost to Korea in the World Cup too? And what's the conspiracy about? Explain?
 
Old 06-22-2004, 06:02 PM   #11
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"Ee yist tu pli fitba" saidGordon in a Daily Mail exclusive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
Did Italy surrender a penalty kick when they lost to Korea in the World Cup too? And what's the conspiracy about? Explain?
Denmark and Sweden playing out exactly a 2-2 draw meant that Italy could have won 37-0 and they'd still be out and the two Scandinavians would be through.
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Old 06-22-2004, 06:03 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
Did Italy surrender a penalty kick when they lost to Korea in the World Cup too? And what's the conspiracy about? Explain?
No penalty, they lost to a golden goal. Trappatoni would have been sacked then had it not been for the Italian public blaming the ref of that game more.

Conspiracy was basically that it (and i don't get this) was figured that if Sweden and Denmark drew 2-2 then both of them would go through. Some Italian players questioned whether those two might play out the 2-2 draw and an Italian TV channel had extra cameras put in the ground to check. Seeing as that game did end 2-2 and seeing the pictures of what looked like both sets of players holding hands and saluting the crowd, i think the Italians may look into this quite vigorously.

There was also an occasion years ago (when last games in the group didn't kick off at the same time) that Germany played Austria in the later game, knowing that a 1-0 Germany win would see both through. Anyway Germany scored and the last 20 minutes or something were played with little attacking and challenging. That game led to Fifa changing the rules so that the last games in group stages would be played simultaneously.
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Old 06-22-2004, 06:06 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by WWEngland
Anyway Germany scored and the last 20 minutes or something were played with little attacking and challenging. That game led to Fifa changing the rules so that the last games in group stages would be played simultaneously.
Last 20? Try last 85. And switch "little" for "absolutely no". Seriously, it was THAT bad. It's not like they scored and both teams thought "oh well, may as well sit back now", the game was rigged, plain and simple.
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Old 06-22-2004, 06:12 PM   #14
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Red face

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Originally Posted by 91
Last 20? Try last 85. And switch "little" for "absolutely no". Seriously, it was THAT bad. It's not like they scored and both teams thought "oh well, may as well sit back now", the game was rigged, plain and simple.
I only saw it mentioned on 100 Greatest World Cup moments briefly, i only said 20 because anything much longer sounded unrealistic
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Old 06-22-2004, 06:12 PM   #15
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Oh yeah WWEngland, let me explain this 2-2 draw thing.

When two teams are level on points, the first thing used to seperate them in this tournament is the result between the two teams, yes? With three teams level on points however, they use the results all three teams had with each other. Essentially you make a little mini table as follows...

Denmark 0-0 Italy
Italy 1-1 Sweden
Sweden 2-2 Denmark

Sweden [2 0 2 0 3 3 2]
Denmark [2 0 2 0 2 2 2]
Italy [2 0 2 0 1 1 2]

That's played, won, drawn, lost, for, against and points there (the reply box won't let me make a little table). The three teams are all level on points and goal difference, so you go next to goals scored, on which Italy are bottom.

Just be grateful than the Danes and the Swedes didn't draw 1-1 and the Italians didn't win 2-0, else Italy and Denmark would have been dead level, and THAT would have gotten confusing.
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Old 06-22-2004, 06:07 PM   #16
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Oh shoot. That's crazy stuff.
 
Old 06-22-2004, 05:57 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by 91
Daily Mail.
The Sport has more credibility than that paper.

Okay maybe they don't but the Daily Mail's rep has been nothing but negative for the past 2 years (not just sport coverage).
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Old 06-22-2004, 06:06 PM   #18
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Both sets of players weren't holding hands though. It was the Danish players with the Sweden shirts they just swapped.
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Old 06-22-2004, 06:10 PM   #19
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Ok, i did only have the pictures from ITV1 and commentary saying stuff like "and both sets of players celebrating together" but seeing as they would have only seen those pics too,i believe you.

Don't think there's any conspiracy though, the two countries are rivals.

Relating to Italy going home, it will be interesting to see Totti being sodomised as much as Beckham was here after 98.
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Old 06-22-2004, 06:18 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by WWEngland
Don't think there's any conspiracy though, the two countries are rivals.
Agreed entirely. It'd be like if England and Scotland were playing in the same scenario. You think they'd sit back and happily settle for a draw? Hell no, asides from the glory of victory that accompanies the game, both teams have a chance to eliminate the other and screw them other, then get bragging rights for the next six months. Denmark and Sweden don't like each other, in footballing terms, they were both out for nothing less than a victory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WWEngland
I only saw it mentioned on 100 Greatest World Cup moments briefly, i only said 20 because anything much longer sounded unrealistic
It was unrealistic, hence why everyone jumped on them right away. Lord knows why they didn't try and be subtle about it, let the West Germans score a late winner or something. Hell, they should have played out a 5-4 thriller. Asides from the fact it'd have the same effect, it would have given everyone a great game to watch, people might have fallen for it and their players stood a better chance of winning the golden boot.
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Old 06-22-2004, 06:20 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91
It was unrealistic, hence why everyone jumped on them right away. Lord knows why they didn't try and be subtle about it, let the West Germans score a late winner or something. Hell, they should have played out a 5-4 thriller. Asides from the fact it'd have the same effect, it would have given everyone a great game to watch, people might have fallen for it and their players stood a better chance of winning the golden boot.
But they wouldn't trust the other team to put 3 or 4 goals on them and allow them to come back, though.
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Old 06-22-2004, 06:22 PM   #22
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But they wouldn't trust the other team to put 3 or 4 goals on them and allow them to come back, though.
Why not? They trusted each other to play out a 1-0 victory. All they'd have to do is make sure the West Germans kept scoring and the Austrians kept equalising, one at a time, so nobody could easily screw the other.
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Old 06-22-2004, 06:15 PM   #23
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NORDIC VICTORY

2 - 2

=

CIAO ITALIA

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Old 06-22-2004, 06:17 PM   #24
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That's just it though, everyone was saying it was impossible for them to go through if the other game finished 2-2. Surely if Italy had won by 4 or 5 goals then they would be through anyway? Seeing as its results against (nothing between) and then goal difference and then goals scored, something which had Italy won by a few goals, they would have been through because of.

Thanks for trying though.
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Old 06-22-2004, 06:22 PM   #25
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My bad, forgot about Bulgaria
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Old 06-22-2004, 06:25 PM   #26
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Here's the final group C table.
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Old 06-22-2004, 06:24 PM   #27
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It's only the goal difference between the 3 sides. You look at it as if you were ignoring the results against Bulgaria.

Denmark would have scored 2 conceeded 2
Sweden would have scored 3 conceeded 3
Italy would have scored 1 conceeded 1

That's why no matter what Italy couldn't get through if it finished 2-2 or any higher of a draw.
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Old 06-22-2004, 06:31 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeletor
It's only the goal difference between the 3 sides. You look at it as if you were ignoring the results against Bulgaria.

Denmark would have scored 2 conceeded 2
Sweden would have scored 3 conceeded 3
Italy would have scored 1 conceeded 1

That's why no matter what Italy couldn't get through if it finished 2-2 or any higher of a draw.
That's only because the 3 teams finished equal on points?

I'm confusing myself.
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Old 06-22-2004, 06:37 PM   #29
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Yes
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Old 06-22-2004, 06:41 PM   #30
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So how would they have decided had Italy beat Bulgaria 2-0 and Denmark and Sweden drew 1-1?
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Old 06-22-2004, 06:44 PM   #31
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Maybe combined hair length of squad. I dunno.
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Old 06-22-2004, 06:46 PM   #32
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They would have had to have done something crazy.

BRB gonna try find out.
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Old 06-22-2004, 07:05 PM   #33
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In the past, the backup plan for such scenarios (which have occassionally threatened to, but rarely do) is to draw lots. I'm not sure what that means exactly, but that's what it's called anyway.

The one time I can remember this happening was in the 1990 world cup when Ireland and Holland had the same results (both drew their opener 1-1, their next game 0-0 and then finished by drawing 1-1 with each other). Both were through, but one team had to finish second and face Romania and one had to finish third and face West Germany. As it turned out, Ireland won the drawing of lots and reached the quarters whereas Holland lost and went out in the next round.
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Old 06-22-2004, 07:13 PM   #34
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Oh no, a revelation just struck me. Let's say England beat Portugal (feasible) and let's say the Germans beat the Czechs tomorrow (feasible) then beat the Swedes in the quarter finals (also feasible). You know what that means...
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Old 06-22-2004, 07:33 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by 91
Oh no, a revelation just struck me. Let's say England beat Portugal (feasible) and let's say the Germans beat the Czechs tomorrow (feasible) then beat the Swedes in the quarter finals (also feasible). You know what that means...
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Old 06-22-2004, 07:31 PM   #36
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No, I'm completely stupid.

What does it mean .
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Old 06-22-2004, 07:37 PM   #37
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Football violence?
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Old 06-22-2004, 07:38 PM   #38
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Hopefully tonight will put to an end the stupid way UEFA does things in qualifying groups. Goal difference is a simple, effective formula for deciding who goes through. How can it make sense to use a system where they effectively deem some games more important than others at the end?

Italy had the worst goal difference though so all is not so bad. It should wake them up to the fact that defending one-goal leads is a shitty tactic. It should...but it won't.
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Old 06-22-2004, 07:51 PM   #39
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well it effectively meant that Italy could have won 100-0 and not gone through, so it is screwy.
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Old 06-22-2004, 08:15 PM   #40
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I think there's a half truth in that - when two teams are level on points then deciding their position on the result between the two, regardless of goal difference, seems fair enough. This stuff with three teams being tied and it not making a difference if Italy had won 1,000,000-0 is just overcomplicating matters. Yes, it didn't make a difference because Italy would have lost on goal difference anyway, but it's confused a lot of people unnecessarily.
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