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Old 06-12-2004, 02:37 AM   #721
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Remember when Payton was considered THE top defensive guard in the league? Now he gets torched on a regular basis.
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Old 06-12-2004, 03:32 AM   #722
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Having the good point guard coming off the bench is a key point for good teams though.

Van Exel from Dallas, Jackson from Sacramento, Fisher from LA, so if you can have a guy as good as D-Fish coming off the bench, it is a huge advantage, also I think he thrives on his bench role.
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Old 06-12-2004, 03:36 AM   #723
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Well thats pretty obvious. Most good teams have depth at the PG spot

Lakers used to have capable backups coming off the bench when Fisher was the starter. I remember back when Sixers played the Lakers in the finals Tyrone Lue came off the bench and was the only able to slow Iverson down at all in Game 1.
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Old 06-12-2004, 05:43 AM   #724
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Yea he really doesn't fit at all. Gary Payton is obviously a better player then Derek Fisher overall, but for the Lakers style of play, DFish is a WAY better fit.

Payton's defense has been lacking big time though...He has been getting shitted on A LOT in these playoffs
Wolves can defend the pick and roll.

Know why?

They don't have a 400 pound Center and a 50 year old PF.

Nuggets can defend the pick and roll with Camby.

Pistons have three dudes with huge wingspans to defend it.

Jermaine O'Neal can defend it.

The Lakers are the most ill-equipped team in the world for the pick and roll, and that's why Payton's defense is shit.
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Old 06-12-2004, 12:13 PM   #725
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Yeah, he's not getting burned on every play due to the pick and roll. He is getting beat off the dribble, guys are getting around him and getting to the bucket easy. He is not disturbing any type of offense flow like he used to do. He isn't getting into anybodys head like he used yo. You seem to be a HUGE Payton fan for some reason, but he isn't getting any younger and he isn't anywhere close to where he was a few years ago on the defensive side of the ball.
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Old 06-12-2004, 04:01 PM   #726
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Yeah, he's not getting burned on every play due to the pick and roll. He is getting beat off the dribble, guys are getting around him and getting to the bucket easy. He is not disturbing any type of offense flow like he used to do. He isn't getting into anybodys head like he used yo. You seem to be a HUGE Payton fan for some reason, but he isn't getting any younger and he isn't anywhere close to where he was a few years ago on the defensive side of the ball.
I think he just doesn't fit.

Sam Cassell is a defensive liability, and he had the best season ever. Why? Because be was our Point Guard. The ball was his.

The Lakers have so many egos, it's like, whose ball is it? It sure as fuck ain't Gary Payton's. He spent his entire career being the Captain, the General of his team. Now he's the 4th option, sometimes even 5th.

I know he's lost a step, but there is a place for a good PG who isn't that fast... I just don't think Los Angeles is it.

I could be wrong, but I dunno. You can tell that GP is not happy there.
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Old 06-12-2004, 04:47 PM   #727
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Yeah I kind of get the vibe he isn't happy either. It's like he's just going through the motions, he doesn't care if he scores or makes a big defensive play like he used to.

I would guarantee you, if he went out and scored 20 and had 10-11 dimes, no LA fan would be mad.
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Old 06-12-2004, 09:21 PM   #728
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That's why I said... I can buy that he's lost a step, okay?

But he hasn't lost 10 steps. If he wanted to, he could dominate a game. Unless he's doing it on purpose, or is hiding an illness or something, as bad as he has become, you don't do that overnight.
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Old 06-12-2004, 11:33 PM   #729
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Payton will be back with someone else next year and back to himself.

No Phil Jackon/triangle offence team has ever had a dominant point guard. There's no need for it. The role of the guards is to initiate the offence and hit shots (Jordan/Bryant/Steve Kerr etc) or defend (guys like Ron Harper). Payton doesn't fit into this mould, so he'll move on next season, with or without his ring.
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Old 06-14-2004, 01:50 AM   #730
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Just go ahead and serve it up on a silver platter.

Hey, my name is *insert any Laker besides Shaq*, we have the most dominating player on the court but we aren't going to give him the ball when it matters the most.

Doc Rivers is also a moron.

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Old 06-14-2004, 02:09 AM   #731
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36 points and he didn't get the ball?
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Old 06-14-2004, 02:10 AM   #732
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Anyone else notice Karl looked like he was about to cry deep in the 4th?
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Old 06-14-2004, 02:10 AM   #733
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He had what, 27 going into the fourth?

Not counting those last two, thats a whole 7 points in the fourth.

Yeah, when it mattered the most he didn't get the ball.
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Old 06-14-2004, 02:13 AM   #734
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Anyway, here is my take on everything.

LA as a whole is used to being a dominating offensive power, they aren't used to such a great defensive team. Kobe is getting completely frustrated and it's hurting most of his looks, GP doesn't really want to be there, Karl has become more of a liability since he's scared to shoot, Shaq well... Shaq is doing well. LA still needs to find a third guy to step up to take some pressure off Shaq and Kobe though.

When everyone was talking LA in 4 or 5, they neglected to realize just how good defensively the Pistons are, and how little the LA are challenged in that way.
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Old 06-14-2004, 02:14 AM   #735
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He had what, 27 going into the fourth?

Not counting those last two, thats a whole 7 points in the fourth.

Yeah, when it mattered the most he didn't get the ball.
True.

NOT ONLY did he dominate... but the stupid Pistons kept on fouling him every time he shot. I was getting angry at Sheed and Prince et al. who kept hitting him when they had no chance of stopping anything.
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Old 06-14-2004, 02:15 AM   #736
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He had what, 27 going into the fourth?

Not counting those last two, thats a whole 7 points in the fourth.

Yeah, when it mattered the most he didn't get the ball.
They should have got him the ball in the 4th no question, problem was Kobe got so frustrated with everything he tried to take over on a night he just didn't have the touch.

Shaq also could have been a liability that deep in the 4th, if the Pistons went Hack-a-Shaq. But LA still should have went to him, at least that way you're promised a few.
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Old 06-14-2004, 02:17 AM   #737
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How many more games everyone thinking. I'm tempted to say two more, I just feel like LA will step up for the next game, then get over confident (again) in LA.
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Old 06-14-2004, 02:22 AM   #738
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They should have got him the ball in the 4th no question, problem was Kobe got so frustrated with everything he tried to take over on a night he just didn't have the touch.

Shaq also could have been a liability that deep in the 4th, if the Pistons went Hack-a-Shaq. But LA still should have went to him, at least that way you're promised a few.
He needed to shoot more 30-foot off-balance shots when the clock ran out. He'd have scored 40.

he he he.

Also, my prediction is that the Pistons will try their asses off to win game 5... I mean... you can't let the Lakers get their swagger back.

Zen Master ain't got SHIT on Brown.
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Old 06-14-2004, 02:24 AM   #739
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You know what, I think the only reason he hit those shots (Kobe's buzzer beaters) is because he just stopped thinking. I think those shots were the only times he wasn't completely frustrated as he was so rushed to shoot.
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Old 06-14-2004, 02:25 AM   #740
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I think they already are overconfident. All of that "professionalism" crap is coming back to bite them in the ass. They were saying tonight wasn't a "must win" game, and they lost it, now they are absolutely screwed, and they are lucky to be still in it. Sheed, Rip, Ben, they just want it more. Like the announcers said today, Sheed is so crazy because he just wants to win. If the Lakers are going to take this championship as business as usual, they are done.
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Old 06-14-2004, 02:50 AM   #741
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I think they already are overconfident. All of that "professionalism" crap is coming back to bite them in the ass. They were saying tonight wasn't a "must win" game, and they lost it, now they are absolutely screwed, and they are lucky to be still in it. Sheed, Rip, Ben, they just want it more. Like the announcers said today, Sheed is so crazy because he just wants to win. If the Lakers are going to take this championship as business as usual, they are done.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playof...ory?id=1820189

Eh, the Pistons aren't doing anything, it's just the Lakers aren't executing. They're just not hustling enough.

This was BEFORE tonight's game. The Lakers said all it takes to win is to try harder, to pass, to set up shots... it's not the Pistons beating them, it's THEMSELVES.

ARGH.

They will never give props to the Pistons ever.

Even Kobe gave the Wolves props... of course, he can do that from the position of winner. Phil has no problem giving credit to the other team in a loss.

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Old 06-14-2004, 02:55 AM   #742
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HAHAHAH fuck you Lakers. It's great that not only is Malone not gonna win his title, but he's one of the main reasons why his team didn;t win.
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Old 06-14-2004, 02:56 AM   #743
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Well, the Lakers aren't helping their case either, but yeah, The Pistons are destroying LA.
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Old 06-14-2004, 02:58 AM   #744
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1 Game away. I called it. I said Pistons in 5 over Lakers before the Finals started. You bitches better be ready to rep after Game 5
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Old 06-14-2004, 03:04 AM   #745
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HAHAHAH fuck you Lakers. It's great that not only is Malone not gonna win his title, but he's one of the main reasons why his team didn;t win.
Don't jinx it!

Also, Robert Horry wouldn't have done much better, so the Lakers proved once again that they need a PF.

Shoulda kept Samaki Walker.
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Old 06-14-2004, 03:06 AM   #746
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WOW I am shocked. Detriot had control of the game hte entire time, the score wasn't lopsided like last time but I was never worried about the Lakers making a push to win it

Kinda pisses me off though. I mean I am glad that somebody other then the Lakers is winning, but I just think back to 2 years ago when the Celtics where better then the Pistons. Now the Celtics suck and Detriot has improved greatly. Pisses me off...why couldn't have the Celtics done the samething?? Its not Detroit completely revamped their roster, I mean Prince and Rasheed got added on but other then that there wasn't much. Their guys have just gotten better for whatever reasons where as the Celtics dump an all star for a 7 foot bum that only shoots 3 pointers
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Old 06-14-2004, 03:07 AM   #747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaBean
Don't jinx it!

Also, Robert Horry wouldn't have done much better, so the Lakers proved once again that they need a PF.

Shoulda kept Samaki Walker.
They still got Horace Grant in street clothes. I am a pretty big sports fan and I seriously thought he retired 2 years ago hahah
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Old 06-14-2004, 03:09 AM   #748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splaya
1 Game away. I called it. I said Pistons in 5 over Lakers before the Finals started. You bitches better be ready to rep after Game 5
Like I said in another thread, nothing you say will be listened to.

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Old 06-14-2004, 03:13 AM   #749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sTiMa34
WOW I am shocked. Detriot had control of the game hte entire time, the score wasn't lopsided like last time but I was never worried about the Lakers making a push to win it

Kinda pisses me off though. I mean I am glad that somebody other then the Lakers is winning, but I just think back to 2 years ago when the Celtics where better then the Pistons. Now the Celtics suck and Detriot has improved greatly. Pisses me off...why couldn't have the Celtics done the samething?? Its not Detroit completely revamped their roster, I mean Prince and Rasheed got added on but other then that there wasn't much. Their guys have just gotten better for whatever reasons where as the Celtics dump an all star for a 7 foot bum that only shoots 3 pointers

It's called the coach and maturity
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Old 06-14-2004, 03:17 AM   #750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Outlaw
Like I said in another thread, nothing you say will be listened to.


So what. I'll always be able to tell you guys that I was right and you were wrong.
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Old 06-14-2004, 03:24 AM   #751
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Throughout the whole time, out of everyone I've talked to I am the only one who said it was going to be a closer series, EVERYONE I talked to and everything I read said Lakers would dominate, me being the only one saying it would be closer than that, and even I didn't expect this.
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Old 06-14-2004, 03:33 AM   #752
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Exclamation

Yeah, it's weird how everyone is coming out of the woodwork now saying they picked the Pistons.

Someone bump that old thread asking if the Pistons could do it.

Shoulda been a public poll, so that people couldn't change their pick.
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Old 06-14-2004, 03:35 AM   #753
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I knew it would be at least 5 or 6, but I'll be damned if I thought it would be the Piston's winning.
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Old 06-14-2004, 03:41 AM   #754
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Exclamation

So many people predicted sweep...

I wouldn't have picked the Pistons to win, but I'm a life-long pessimist. I'm either proven right, or pleasantly surprised.

I am orgasmically happy to be proven wrong.
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Old 06-14-2004, 03:47 AM   #755
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You guys are so mean.
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Old 06-14-2004, 03:48 AM   #756
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Well Ninti is about to respond saying he predicted it too I bet.
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Old 06-14-2004, 04:05 AM   #757
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Outlaw
You guys are so mean.
Nah I'm still predicting the Lakers.

Pissed off Shaq is worth 10,000 Ben Wallaces. The NBA wants this competitive, so I highly doubt they will be letting anything go in the next three games... defense means touch fouls, so the Lakers will be going to the line 80 times a game, and the PIstons will get scared and play soft, which is what the Lakers want... and the Pistons will not be able to compensate.

Watch!
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Old 06-14-2004, 04:31 AM   #758
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Nah, the Pistons will keep shooting 50 free throws

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Old 06-14-2004, 05:10 AM   #759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sTiMa34
WOW I am shocked. Detriot had control of the game hte entire time, the score wasn't lopsided like last time but I was never worried about the Lakers making a push to win it

Kinda pisses me off though. I mean I am glad that somebody other then the Lakers is winning, but I just think back to 2 years ago when the Celtics where better then the Pistons. Now the Celtics suck and Detriot has improved greatly. Pisses me off...why couldn't have the Celtics done the samething?? Its not Detroit completely revamped their roster, I mean Prince and Rasheed got added on but other then that there wasn't much. Their guys have just gotten better for whatever reasons where as the Celtics dump an all star for a 7 foot bum that only shoots 3 pointers
AlphaBean mentioned the coach and maturity. I'm going to also include a pretty damn good president in Joe Dumars, a man who's not afraid to make unpopular decisions when he knows it's for the good of the team.

Remember, Detroit also ended up dumping an all star --- Jerry Stackhouse --- in exchange for Rip Hamilton. Dumars was also widely criticized by sports pundits for picking Darko Milicic over Carmelo Anthony for the main reason that he wanted to keep Tayshaun Prince. See how both those scenarios played out.
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Old 06-14-2004, 05:16 AM   #760
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Santo
AlphaBean mentioned the coach and maturity. I'm going to also include a pretty damn good president in Joe Dumars, a man who's not afraid to make unpopular decisions when he knows it's for the good of the team.

Remember, Detroit also ended up dumping an all star --- Jerry Stackhouse --- in exchange for Rip Hamilton. Dumars was also widely criticized by sports pundits for picking Darko Milicic over Carmelo Anthony for the main reason that he wanted to keep Tayshaun Prince. See how both those scenarios played out.
You think Darko will pan out?

Also I dunno if I said coach/maturity... I said a lot of things but that doesn't ring a bell.
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