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Old 04-02-2010, 04:19 PM   #41
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Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
I know that. The reason of the push is not what I'm talking about. It's the way it was handled.
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Old 04-02-2010, 04:19 PM   #42
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Yeah and he danced to the ring like a fucking clown.
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Old 04-02-2010, 04:21 PM   #43
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They kind of made him "Hogan" like... like obviously he could work like a motherfucker but he was so damned untouchable, that every match he did sort of had a very basic formula. I'd say only once he returned in 1997 (That fucking whitehot tag match teaming with Austin vs. Bulldog and Owen) that he picked up his steam again
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Old 04-02-2010, 04:21 PM   #44
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Yeah and he danced to the ring like a fucking clown.
But he was a boy toy, so it was expected of him.

Plus
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Old 04-02-2010, 04:22 PM   #45
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Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
Mario Van Peebles will try anything once.
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Old 04-02-2010, 04:23 PM   #46
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yeah I'm not doubting that he was a boy toy, but how are males between 18-30 really gonna cheer that guy, especially once he starts kissing their ass. if he was cocky and rogueish and didn't kiss ass like that then it would have been fine, but he wanted his cake and he also wanted to eat it.
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Old 04-02-2010, 04:24 PM   #47
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haha kapoutman beat me to it
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Old 04-02-2010, 05:48 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by kareru View Post
bret hart is like bryan danielson, they both lack charisma but the crowd still loves them
exactly what JGKY said no gimmicks needed
Danielson actually has a lot of charisma. Watch him in ROH in 2006 and tat is some top quality heel work. His mic skills are pretty good. The whole "I have til 5" thing was his biggest catch phrase and was done during a match.

I dare say Danielson takes the technical expertise of Bret Hart (William Regal really) and combines it with the in-ring showmanship of Shawn Michaels. It's an awesome combination.
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Old 04-02-2010, 06:09 PM   #49
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Nobody mentioned it, but WCW actually gave him a "Hitman" gimmick during his run there. He took out the likes of Nash, DDP and I think Chris Benoit. He would always try to break thier legs/damage thier knees. It was pretty cool actually.

On the mic, I thought he always did a great job. When he first started his singles run, there was definately a lot of room for improvement and he'll even admit that. But you could tell he started getting comfortable around Wrestlemania 8 and really improved every year. His best year was 1997, where he had to carry a ton of promos on Raw.
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Old 04-02-2010, 07:14 PM   #50
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Yeah in most of his matches he attack their knee to set them up for the sharpshooter. He's the Excellence of Execution. The execution of wrestling moves. In that way he is the Hitman. He does have a lot of charisma and can talk on the mic but a lot of fans who started watching after and didn't see him at all feels differently. He's not the Rock or anything but I guess you had to see it live as it was happening otherwise you won't feel the whole effect.
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Old 04-02-2010, 07:24 PM   #51
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Yeah in most of his matches he attack their knee to set them up for the sharpshooter. He's the Excellence of Execution. The execution of wrestling moves. In that way he is the Hitman. He does have a lot of charisma and can talk on the mic but a lot of fans who started watching after and didn't see him at all feels differently. He's not the Rock or anything but I guess you had to see it live as it was happening otherwise you won't feel the whole effect.
He came from not only a wrestling family but from the era that wrestling was big, then just before the Screwjob it was slowly turning into big bad characters and the Hitman just couldn't compete with that.

I remember when he was going against Austin back in the day and feeling bad because as much as I loved him he could never get a crowd reaction the same as Austin and that somewhat annoyed me because in my mind Bret was better than Austin.
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Old 04-02-2010, 07:26 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jura View Post
Yeah in most of his matches he attack their knee to set them up for the sharpshooter. He's the Excellence of Execution. The execution of wrestling moves. In that way he is the Hitman. He does have a lot of charisma and can talk on the mic but a lot of fans who started watching after and didn't see him at all feels differently. He's not the Rock or anything but I guess you had to see it live as it was happening otherwise you won't feel the whole effect.
I don't want him to be Rock. Very few can even dream of being that good on the stick.

But I'd expect him to be on par with who his peers were, and that includes anyone with a mouthpiece. Diesel could talk, Shawn could talk, Cornette (for Yoko) could talk. Hell, even Sid could talk. All these people brought somewhat of a presence. Bret did not.

Bret's mic work was fine, for a non-main event player of the early-mid 90s.

And I do agree his best year was 97. But everything else he's done seemed just plain boring and awkward at best.
Last edited by Xero; 04-02-2010 at 07:32 PM.
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Old 04-02-2010, 07:34 PM   #53
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Hell, even Sid could talk.
Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! I wouldn't go that far.
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Old 04-02-2010, 07:36 PM   #54
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Sid brought more character (not THE character, but character within his promos) than Bret ever could. And that, to me, is important during that time frame.
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Old 04-02-2010, 07:43 PM   #55
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Sid brought more character (not THE character, but character within his promos) than Bret ever could. And that, to me, is important during that time frame.
But here's the thing, Sid was a character of Sid Eudy he wasn't playing himself like Bret was.

Bret came into the WWF as himself and never really had a character to outline himself after. That's why WCW had troubles with him, they couldn't come up with something for someone who actually knew how to wrestle and had a background like his.
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Old 04-02-2010, 07:44 PM   #56
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Fine, then Bret is boring and awkward in real life.
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Old 04-02-2010, 07:45 PM   #57
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Sid brought more character (not THE character, but character within his promos) than Bret ever could. And that, to me, is important during that time frame.
Highly disagree
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Old 04-02-2010, 07:53 PM   #58
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Back to the topic at hand, Jura is i think the most correct. He was a hitman because he was so technical and precise with his attacks to set up the "kill" ala Sharpshooter.
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Old 04-02-2010, 08:48 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero View Post
I don't want him to be Rock. Very few can even dream of being that good on the stick.

But I'd expect him to be on par with who his peers were, and that includes anyone with a mouthpiece. Diesel could talk, Shawn could talk, Cornette (for Yoko) could talk. Hell, even Sid could talk. All these people brought somewhat of a presence. Bret did not.

Bret's mic work was fine, for a non-main event player of the early-mid 90s.

And I do agree his best year was 97. But everything else he's done seemed just plain boring and awkward at best.
Ugh. I'm sorry but Nash's promos were no better than Bret's. You drink the Bret Hart hatorade.
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Old 04-02-2010, 08:49 PM   #60
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And sid , Xero, honestly, shutup please.
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Old 04-02-2010, 08:49 PM   #61
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bret was the shit during the bret/luger rumble draw.. as for his gimmick, imagine if he would have went with the cowboy gimmick he talked aobut in his dvd
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Old 04-02-2010, 08:51 PM   #62
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And sid , Xero, honestly, shutup please.
Lucky I didn't add Warrior to my list.
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:12 PM   #63
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byran danielson isn't exactly some no-name, im just pointing out the similarities both not charismatic at all both very impressive in the ring and i think thats why they can get over like they do, with all the outlandish characters with huuuuge ego's the crowd can really get behind a straight up athlete.
The lack of charisma is not al true for Bret though. His charisma wasnt flashy or full of pizazz but he had that something that drew people in, not to mention he was a great storyteller and managed to cut promos and such that made you believe in them, that made them feel all the more legit. He was probably the best at that.
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:15 PM   #64
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Yeah and he danced to the ring like a fucking clown.
That and he dressed like a big time gay. Male audiences couldnt get behind that.
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:18 PM   #65
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Quote:
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Sid brought more character (not THE character, but character within his promos) than Bret ever could. And that, to me, is important during that time frame.
All Sid ever did when he talked was not make any sense and fuck up and stumble his lines.

I will beat you because I am the man, and the master and the ruler of the world!!!! Same shit all the time, never made any sense.

Bret cut promos that made people care, he added something to the feud with the way he managed to build things up. Bret was real motherfucker.
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:40 PM   #66
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Fine, then Bret is boring and awkward in real life.
I think you need to realize that you aren't right all the time.
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:53 PM   #67
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I grew up watching Bret from 1988 till his retirement in 2000. I say his promos were as awesome as his wrestling ability. The promos make sense, have the passion, and the emotion.
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Old 04-03-2010, 01:12 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Xero View Post
Fine, then Bret is boring and awkward in real life.
Almost all of us are boring and awkward in real life. Hitman wasn't really a character. Almost every time he was playing mostly himself except the anti-America heel. It's like he talks about being the best and trying to take the guy out and using his great wrestling skill because it's all true. I fucking wouldn't want to watch Steve Borden the Christian or Shawn Michaels the Christian or Scott Hall the drunk. I remember when he was in the ring drunk and it was a little funny but he was a mess. I think at the time Bret's stuff was good in that era but if it happened now it wouldn't be that interesting.

I found Mr. Perfect boring. Forgive me but I did. Okay he was good at sports and all this stuff but he wasn't the champion and I rarely seen him with a belt so it was like he was just all talk but people who knew him in real life say he really is Mr. Perfect because he's actually really good at all those things he did.

Fast forward to the future and look at Chris Masters and M&M who did a not exact but similar gimmick and I thought they were pretty bland. Like I said you'd pretty much had to see it live and be in the moment and everything was much better and it worked back then.

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Back to the topic at hand, Jura is i think the most correct. He was a hitman because he was so technical and precise with his attacks to set up the "kill" ala Sharpshooter.
Let's have sex.
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Old 04-03-2010, 02:43 AM   #69
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Also, I liked The Blue Chip Rocky Maivia. He looked weird and smiled all the time but I thought he had really good energy and was a good performer in the ring plus energetic on the mic. His character was actually himself. He was promoted as the son of Peter Maivia and Rocky Johnson and is a 3rd generation wrestler or some shit and that's who he really was but people fucking hated him. Then he became "The Rock" and the most electrifying athlete in sports entertainment. Further proving characters close to the real wrestler worked back then but not now.
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Old 04-03-2010, 05:07 AM   #70
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Bret was around when an insert nickname was cool

Jim "the anvil" Niedhart

Randy "macho man" Savage

Andre "the giant" Giant

No he didn't have a "hitman, or sharpshooter" gimmick. It was just a name. And btw he used the color pink because the Canadian flag is red and white. Red and white together make pink. Straight from "the hitman's" mouth.
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Old 04-03-2010, 05:11 AM   #71
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Bret was around when an insert nickname was cool
I think that might be why he was initially given the nick name, but I think Bret embraced it and it evolved into what some in this thread have been talking about.
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Old 04-03-2010, 06:38 AM   #72
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Andre "the giant" Giant
Um.
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Old 04-03-2010, 09:52 AM   #73
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Times have changed, Vampire Weekend a 'no name' band had the number one album in america. With the advent of the web bryan Danielson hasn't been a no name for years.

ECW was counter culture and has been compared with Nirvana. ROH is counter culture now and I'd make the comparison to indie, because A) they are both independent B) A lot of names go to the majors C) a lot of wrestlers don't even want to go to the 'big leagues' because they know their wrestling arsenal will be cut in half, like a lot of indie bands don't want to be on a major label because their creativity will be mainstreamized (mainstreamed).
Last edited by Indifferent Clox; 04-03-2010 at 10:53 AM.
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Old 04-03-2010, 09:54 AM   #74
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Also bryan danielson cuts great promos. Checkk out his last PWG promo, or his promo against lance storm or samoa joe. He's always been able to play a great heel, it's when he's a face he's alittle bland, but no more so than Shelton Benjamin.
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Old 04-03-2010, 09:54 AM   #75
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mainstreamized
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Old 04-03-2010, 10:04 AM   #76
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lol at the continued use of 'charisma' and the like when people really mean 'showmanship'. If you think Bret had little/no charisma but was still very over then you have no idea what charisma is.

Even after destor's thread.
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Old 04-03-2010, 10:54 AM   #77
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Bryan Danielson has showmanship, it just works better when he can tak to the fans and the fans can make funny comments back and he can actually hear them and respond in kind.

i've got till 5
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Old 04-03-2010, 12:03 PM   #78
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Excellence of Execution.
This.
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Old 04-03-2010, 01:17 PM   #79
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Anybody Thrilla's answer about using Thomas Hearns' name was correct. I remember reading it in an old WWF Magazine.
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