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Old 04-19-2004, 10:51 PM   #41
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I have said I thought Randy Orton was (in the long run) the best of the "Newbie Pushes" (Brock, Orton, Rico, Cena). Brock proved that his long term good to the company isn't that great, and I personally think Cena is going to peak pretty soon, Rico bombs, and then we have Orton. I like the kid. 3rd generation star, and no I don't think he is great right now, and in all honesty I am not sure he deserved the IC Title already, however I see much growth in him since he came already. To start calling him "The next..." whoever is a bit premature, I just see this kid with an incredible future ahead of him...and last night he showed he is willing to step it up.

I guess my final judgement of him will come when he gets his first face push...
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Old 04-20-2004, 12:14 AM   #42
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Well...I'm sorry to say that after tonight, Orton has actually gone up a few notches in my viewpoint. Not enough to truely redeam him for me but...he's going up. After his first face push, then we'll see.
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Old 04-20-2004, 12:16 AM   #43
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Alright LC I'll finally admit it, Orton is the man.

I never thought he could pull off the Hardcore Legend gimmick until last night, but I was wrong.
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Old 04-20-2004, 12:27 AM   #44
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Anyways Orton and Jericho ought to feud for the IC title. I think both of them would have great chemistry one-on-one in the ring, and on the mic. Since Jericho was once a main eventer . Orton should get at least one clean and one cheap win over Jericho on RAW, and then job the IC title to Jericho at Great American Bash.

What I see happening with that is Jericho can join forces with Benoit and Edge and form a Canadian stable with control of all the RAW titles; assuming that Benoit and Edge are still tag team champs at that point (somewhere down the line maybe Trish could turn face, win the women's title and join them as well). You may think that giving Jericho the IC title will further bury him, but in my opinion Jericho has been misused too badly to be a credible main eventer now, but he can sure as hell put Orton and Christian over to the main event scene.

I'm going to get flamed for saying that.
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Old 04-20-2004, 02:08 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
Can't believe I'm doing this, but I'm going to have to disagree with you here CyNick. I know your next reply to this will shoot me down by whatever. Anyway, I think an Orton/Benjamin feud would be the best thing for thr two guys right now IMO. Orton and Benjamin seem to be on the same paths as HHH and Rock were back in 98 when the Nation and DX were feuding. Both men had a feud and after their feud was finished, they put themselves in a position where you just had to consider them maineventers.

With Orton and Benjamin, I myself see them as equal. I know people may see different, but I still don't see Orton as bigger then Benjamin yet. Benjamin has been putting on a show these last few months which started with that gounlet on Smackdown. In a time where long term booking takes a back seat to short term booking and in a time where most fans probably don't even remember what Orton did back before the Rumble, I can see fans viewing Benjamin on the same level as Orton just because Benjamin beat HHH on National TV. People are definantely going to remember that win for a while.

Now, I think Orton and Benjamin should have a long drawn out feud. And maybe, as I had mentioned before, Benjamin goes and gets himself a stable which he can lead. This would then resemble HHH/Rock to the fullest. Then down the line they have that big blowoff match, ladder match maybe, which Benjamin would take the title. During all this we see the HHH/Orton split developing which would lead to Orton/HHH at Mania 21.

Just a thought.
Well I dont see how you can say Orotn and Benjamin are on the same level. I mean I watched Backlash earlier today and Orton looked like a main event player by beating Foley convincingly in a hardcore match, while Benjamin looked like an opening card guy beating a guy that nobody takes seriously anymore.

The difference between HHH and Rock from 98 to Benjamin-Orton in 04 is that niether HHH or Rock had beat anyone of significance when they were feuding. HHH was the hip babyface pissing on bikes and what not, while Rock's biggest win to that point was against Ken Shamrock. The two were able to battle one another and used each other to get to a higher level.

With Orton, Mania and moreso Backlash put him on a whole different level from Benajmin. yeah Shelton got a fluky win over HHH on TV, but it wasn't done in a way to make Shelton look superior to HHH. Whereas Orton in two straight PPVs clenaly defeated one of the most beloved superstars in WWE history. There is a huge difference.

My fear with Orton is that if they dont capitalize on his momentum quickly, people will forget about the Foley feud (attention span of the audience is so low its scary) and all of Foley's hard work will be lost.

If you put Orton with Benjamin thats a step down for Orton, and if Benjamin were to win, well that would likely kill Orton dead. I just dont think Shelton is over enough, and he has yet to get a convincing enough win over a top guy to make him even with Orton.

It seems that on RAW they decided to go in another direction for Orton with Edge. Edge is a decent choice, but only if Orton continues to go over.

This isn't like 5 or 10 years ago when you can build up a guy for 2 years and then main event them, you have to strike while the iron is hot, or else people will forget and move on to someone else.
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Old 04-20-2004, 03:52 AM   #46
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I'll give both Orton and Foley credit, it was very good match. The bumps were a plus, but the heat and phsycology were great IMO. **** match.
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Old 04-20-2004, 06:31 AM   #47
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I've got 3 things to say about Randy Orton - Bland, bland and bland.
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Old 04-20-2004, 07:09 AM   #48
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I heard some Randy chants when he cut his promo on Raw
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Old 04-20-2004, 10:12 AM   #49
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I've got 3 things to say about Randy Orton - Bland, bland and bland.


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Old 04-20-2004, 10:13 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by The CyNick
Well I dont see how you can say Orotn and Benjamin are on the same level. I mean I watched Backlash earlier today and Orton looked like a main event player by beating Foley convincingly in a hardcore match, while Benjamin looked like an opening card guy beating a guy that nobody takes seriously anymore.

The difference between HHH and Rock from 98 to Benjamin-Orton in 04 is that niether HHH or Rock had beat anyone of significance when they were feuding. HHH was the hip babyface pissing on bikes and what not, while Rock's biggest win to that point was against Ken Shamrock. The two were able to battle one another and used each other to get to a higher level.

With Orton, Mania and moreso Backlash put him on a whole different level from Benajmin. yeah Shelton got a fluky win over HHH on TV, but it wasn't done in a way to make Shelton look superior to HHH. Whereas Orton in two straight PPVs clenaly defeated one of the most beloved superstars in WWE history. There is a huge difference.

My fear with Orton is that if they dont capitalize on his momentum quickly, people will forget about the Foley feud (attention span of the audience is so low its scary) and all of Foley's hard work will be lost.

If you put Orton with Benjamin thats a step down for Orton, and if Benjamin were to win, well that would likely kill Orton dead. I just dont think Shelton is over enough, and he has yet to get a convincing enough win over a top guy to make him even with Orton.

It seems that on RAW they decided to go in another direction for Orton with Edge. Edge is a decent choice, but only if Orton continues to go over.

This isn't like 5 or 10 years ago when you can build up a guy for 2 years and then main event them, you have to strike while the iron is hot, or else people will forget and move on to someone else.

Yeah I forgot about Edge when I wrote this. Actually, my first choice when typing something like this a month or two ago was Edge. So I guess Orton/Edge is definately better then Orton/Benjamin.
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Old 04-20-2004, 10:57 AM   #51
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*RKO me LC* I'm almost won over one more feud where he gets his own heat and I'm prepared to believe the hype
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Old 04-20-2004, 12:01 PM   #52
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I still hate Orton. Ok, he had a decent match at Manina, but lets not forget it was with Rock, Foley, and Flair. And he had a good hardcore "shit" match with the king of hardcore "shit" matches. He is still crappy at promos and needs to be carried into being entertaining. HBK carried his first fued, Foley carried his second. Until Orton has yet to prove he can pull his own wieght, let alone carry a feud, I still be hating Orton.
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Old 04-20-2004, 12:04 PM   #53
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O, and Orton vs. Edge sounds boring as hell. Edge sucks without Christian.
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Old 04-20-2004, 01:45 PM   #54
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I still hate Orton. Ok, he had a decent match at Manina, but lets not forget it was with Rock, Foley, and Flair. And he had a good hardcore "shit" match with the king of hardcore "shit" matches. He is still crappy at promos and needs to be carried into being entertaining. HBK carried his first fued, Foley carried his second. Until Orton has yet to prove he can pull his own wieght, let alone carry a feud, I still be hating Orton.
But your the same guy that hates Benoit, and I see that you don't like Edge from your post above, but you seem to be a mark for Kevin Nash. I mean, I don't think I will ever be able to convert you to join the Church of Orton with that Resume.
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Old 04-20-2004, 01:50 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool
I still hate Orton. Ok, he had a decent match at Manina, but lets not forget it was with Rock, Foley, and Flair. And he had a good hardcore "shit" match with the king of hardcore "shit" matches. He is still crappy at promos and needs to be carried into being entertaining. HBK carried his first fued, Foley carried his second. Until Orton has yet to prove he can pull his own wieght, let alone carry a feud, I still be hating Orton.

Finally somebody who shares my views on Orton. Hell yeah and here I thought I was the only poster on TPWW that hated Orton. Dude I would rep you but I gotta spread some reputation before I can rep you again, but I owe you one.
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Old 04-20-2004, 04:34 PM   #56
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Quote:
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Finally somebody who shares my views on Orton. Hell yeah and here I thought I was the only poster on TPWW that hated Orton. Dude I would rep you but I gotta spread some reputation before I can rep you again, but I owe you one.
Ummm...so what have I been this whole time? Chopped liver?

Yeah, I gave the guy props for having a good hardcore match with the guy who absolutely defines hardcore (second maybe only to Terry Funk), but I'm still no fan of the guy.

I forget who said it (I think it was in one of Austin's shoot interviews), but there are three kinds of wrestlers: workers, leaders, and followers. Workers have just the bare-bones skills, but aren't too easy to work with. Leaders know how to put together an awesome match with just about anybody. Followers can be entertaining, but only if they have a good Leader to work off of.

From what I've seen, Orton's a Follower. The only matches he's had that were worth remembering were against Shawn Michaels, the Rock, and Mick Foley, all of whom are known for being Leaders in the ring. If he can pull off matches of that caliber with someone who needs to be carried (like, say, Batista), then I'll give him credit. Still, the only thing I remember more than that was that awfully botched RKO leading up to Mania. I have no doubt that he has the potential to become an awesome worker. But potential doesn't sell tickets. So until then, I'm still waiting to be impressed.
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Old 04-21-2004, 01:51 AM   #57
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Quote:
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But your the same guy that hates Benoit, and I see that you don't like Edge from your post above, but you seem to be a mark for Kevin Nash. I mean, I don't think I will ever be able to convert you to join the Church of Orton with that Resume.
*marks out for The Church of Orton*
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Old 04-21-2004, 11:00 AM   #58
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Yes, I'm the same guy that hate Beniot, and I don't really care for Edge with out Christian. I don't see what any of that has to do with anything. I like Cena and Eddie, but you didn't bring that up. Plus the Church of Bischoff is far better than you crappy Orton Shrine.
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Old 04-21-2004, 12:28 PM   #59
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Got to admit Loose, I thought Orton was completely worthless.

I stand corrected, he put on a really good match at Backlash.
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Old 04-21-2004, 01:15 PM   #60
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I've liked Orton since back in the days of Smackdown, however I think personally he may or may not be ready, and the only way to find out is to put him in another high profile situation. If he can make this apparent feud with Edge one to remember, he's ready, but if it flops, then I don't think he is.
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Old 04-21-2004, 06:52 PM   #61
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BDC, the thing is you're making it sound like Orton completely sucks. And he doesn't. He isn't the best thing in the WWE right now by any means and he isn't ready for main events yet. But do you honestly think that Orton doesn't have potential to be really good, and that he hasn't at least been somewhat impressive considering he's new to the business?

I think everyone on here should be able to agree that if Orton continues to develop and improve like he has been over the last year or so that he could one day be an awesome worker.
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Old 04-21-2004, 07:12 PM   #62
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Orton will never be a Rock or an Austin, if anything, he'll be an Undertaker. Never great, just good and probably around a little too long.
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Old 04-22-2004, 02:55 AM   #63
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Orton is good... but there are better in his position, IE: John Cena
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Old 04-22-2004, 02:58 AM   #64
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John Cena is a gimmicky gimp who will be stale come '05 or '06.
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Old 04-22-2004, 03:29 AM   #65
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