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Old 08-25-2010, 06:35 PM   #41
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I think very good boxers tend to ditch the orthodox stance with experience and can rely on their own footwork and balance to maximise their movement and punching power. I try to watch a couple of the pro guys in our gym to pick stuff up but the two best guys fight almost square on, they're just ridiculously quick at shifting their weight and moving their feet, also their ability to swivel about their central axis to generate speed and power of punches is absurd. When I go in sparring with them, I have an enormous reach advantage so I can tag them a few times but they usually just circle around out of my jabbing range then dance in and chin me a few times before I even react.

Some of the stand-up stuff in UFC looks awkward and sluggish. Like Dos Santos vs. Nelson last time out, which was virtually all on the feet, looked pretty clumsy and Dos Santos' punches had very little weight behind them. This was two very big guys, but still, it didn't look good.

Shin and inside leg kicks look really fucking annoying, but if a really good boxer learned to read them in an opponent, they could so some serious damage with a murderous hook because the guard tends to come down when the kicks are thrown and the kicker is obviously off balance. There was a UFC fight recently where I saw this happening, will try to remember which.
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Old 08-25-2010, 06:56 PM   #42
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i think mma is still ironing out the creases a little bit. it's amazing how much it has come on, i was watching some royce gracie and cro cop fights yesterday and it's pretty amazing to look at how much different it is now compared to the mid 90s, and again since about 2005.

fighters with crap cardio are going to be weeded out in the next couple of years. all the ufc champions are ridiculously fit now, brock lesnar is insane for a 265lb+ guy, shogun has a resting heart rate so low you could probably mistake him for dead, and GSP is daft too. my only worry is the rules that allow mma to be sanctioned in north america favours wrestling way too much compared to pride or vale tudo rules and eventually there will just be 5 weight classes of champions who are the best at lying on their opponant for a long time. i really hope it doesn't evolve into that. as cool as it would be to see chael sonnen beat anderson silva i'd want him to lose the belt again right after. it's fun to watch a dominant champion get dicked the way silva was getting dicked, but it'd be another story watching anyone else at 185 against sonnen.
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Old 08-25-2010, 07:01 PM   #43
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I would probably allow a knee in the face takedown defence, I realise it's sort of a grey area right now in terms of kneeing a downed opponent. This will never happen. There was a thread on Rajah's new MMA forum about this and it was 50/50 in MMA fans, so it's unlikely to ever be sanctioned, but it would even up wrestling vs. striking a bit.
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Old 08-25-2010, 07:05 PM   #44
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It would definitely make guys think a little more carefully about taking sloppy shots.
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Old 08-25-2010, 07:08 PM   #45
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yeah it was allowed in pride back in the day. looks gruesome, so i can see why they don't allow it, but going for a takedown is a far less risky proposition in the ufc. the whole you can't knee an opponent if he has a knee on the ground thing is a bit of a cop-out too, since i've seen guys just drop to one knee when in the clinch.

i suppose really though, if it does turn into that people will just stop watching and they will have to tweak the rules again to get fans back.
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Old 08-25-2010, 08:37 PM   #46
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I agree that the rules as is favor wrestling a bit too much. Knees to a downed opponent would help tide this, but I doubt we'll ever see this. Those that are already hesitant about MMA already would go absolutely crazy if it ever was.

What I think has to be done is to change how fights are judged. Right now as it is, a takedown scores major points...even if nothing is done with the takedown. Meanwhile you'll have a guy who might of been taken down yet is more active than the fighter that is in his guard yet the takedown still viewed better in the judges' eyes.

As far as the James Toney vs. Randy Coture match, James' only chance is the knouckout. As soon as Randy gets into the clinch or takes it to the ground, it's match over.
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Old 08-26-2010, 12:47 PM   #47
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I think there is a 40 percent chance Toney breaks a hand throwing a punch
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Old 08-26-2010, 01:00 PM   #48
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Randy doesnt have to take him straight down. He's incredible in the clinch and if he presses him against the cage, Randy will get busy. They wont break them up if Randy is throwing punches and controlling him against the cage. If they do, then the ref needs to go back to ref school.

Couture could just as easily press him against the cage for 3 minutes, wear him out completely then toss him to the ground and crucifix him. If he does that, he wont have to worry about punches being thrown from Toney, from his back. Toney wont have anything in those punches. He's coming into this like a fat piece of shit.

Someone at work tried to tell me that Toney always fought out of shape and KO'ed a ton of peeps. It's easy to KO someone when they arent throwing you against the cage and working you over or tossing you to the ground and pounding you.
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Old 08-26-2010, 02:38 PM   #49
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Old 08-26-2010, 04:09 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rectal Pertruder View Post
Randy doesnt have to take him straight down. He's incredible in the clinch and if he presses him against the cage, Randy will get busy. They wont break them up if Randy is throwing punches and controlling him against the cage. If they do, then the ref needs to go back to ref school.

Couture could just as easily press him against the cage for 3 minutes, wear him out completely then toss him to the ground and crucifix him. If he does that, he wont have to worry about punches being thrown from Toney, from his back. Toney wont have anything in those punches. He's coming into this like a fat piece of shit.

Someone at work tried to tell me that Toney always fought out of shape and KO'ed a ton of peeps. It's easy to KO someone when they arent throwing you against the cage and working you over or tossing you to the ground and pounding you.
I have never seen anyone do damage with punches off the back. Don't think anyone said it was possible.
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Old 08-26-2010, 05:39 PM   #51
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is this fight at heavyweight? i had it in my mind that it was light heavy but i could be wrong. toney does look like a fat sack of crap in the videos i've seen of him recently.
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Old 08-27-2010, 12:41 AM   #52
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He's been a fat sack of crap since he became a boxing heavyweight. Have you seen what he used to look like?
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Old 08-27-2010, 12:56 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mask View Post
is this fight at heavyweight? i had it in my mind that it was light heavy but i could be wrong. toney does look like a fat sack of crap in the videos i've seen of him recently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funky Fly View Post
He's been a fat sack of crap since he became a boxing heavyweight. Have you seen what he used to look like?
From what I read they were both gonna meet at 215. I guess we'll see after the weigh in, but I agree Toney looks really overweight in the promos
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Old 08-27-2010, 01:42 PM   #54
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He's overweight maybe, maybe but Randy is bigger than him.
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Old 08-27-2010, 05:54 PM   #55
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I know. Toney started as a middleweight.
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Old 08-27-2010, 06:20 PM   #56
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James Toney came in at 237 pounds while Randy came in at 220 pound fyi.
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Old 08-28-2010, 02:47 AM   #57
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I read he used to box at around 175 lol
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Old 08-28-2010, 05:11 AM   #58
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I read he used to box at around 175 lol
James has fought at a variety of weights including middleweight, super middleweight, cruiserweight, light heavyweight and heavy weight (I can't tell you off the top of my head what the corresponding weights are).

From what I've read, James is fighting 20 pounds heavier than his last heavyweight boxing match.
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Old 08-29-2010, 12:01 AM   #59
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If I turn gay Randy is number 1 on my list.
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Old 08-29-2010, 01:54 AM   #60
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That was great, so fucking great to watch that happen. AH MAN I LOVED IT!
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Old 08-29-2010, 02:43 AM   #61
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lulz
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Old 08-29-2010, 04:09 AM   #62
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Old 08-29-2010, 05:28 AM   #63
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Got to love a ground defense that allows an opponent to go for TWO separate triangle arm chokes in less than two minutes!
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Old 08-29-2010, 12:03 PM   #64
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So are any boxing forums exploding talking about how the ref should have stood up the fight?
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Old 08-29-2010, 03:30 PM   #65
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They still have boxing forums?
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Old 08-29-2010, 04:09 PM   #66
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They still have wrestling forums?
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Old 08-30-2010, 08:25 AM   #67
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That was fucking stupid. James Toney didn't even bother training for that in any way. Easy way to earn another big pay-cheque for him, plus a load of twats get to rub their boners over this boxing vs. MMA shite so it also works out well for UFC and Dana White.

Randy Couture should have been somewhat embarrassed at being involved in that. It was pathetic.
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Old 08-30-2010, 08:49 AM   #68
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Actually he had been training for that (that being ground game) with some pretty top notch fighters/trainers. Only thing is Couture is/was/will always be to good for him (at MMA).
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Old 08-30-2010, 09:04 AM   #69
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I am sure he said he was training at it but he was out of shape and quite obviously had done very little work for that fight. It was a stupid, embarrassing spectacle for everyone.
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Old 08-30-2010, 09:34 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto View Post
I am sure he said he was training at it but he was out of shape and quite obviously had done very little work for that fight. It was a stupid, embarrassing spectacle for everyone.
That quote can be attached to the last 5-7 years of his career. I'm shocked anyone was suprised by what they saw.
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