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Old 03-14-2011, 05:03 PM   #41
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I'd say there are two types.

A-Listers: Big huge names whose very presence is a sight to behold

A*-Listers: Household names who have become so known for their crazy antics/shenanigans that people are interested/constantly talking about them. (Charlie Sheen category)

Snooki and the cast of Jershey Shore do not fit in either category of A-listers.

I'd say that the "Jersey Shore" brand/name is certainly an A-List brand/name, with people knowing of it even if they don't watch.... but the cast members themselves, on their own? They don't make the cut.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:03 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Jordan X View Post
Well let's not argue over a simple term like "A-list" she is famous as hell right now. And yes, Charlie Sheen is more famous than the Earthquake, horrible but true.
Yes, she's infamous as a source of parody. She's about on par with Paris Hilton. Do you think Paris Hilton is amazing for business? Sure, she has her fans, and sure, she is recogniseable. It just depends on how desperate you are for someone recogniseable.

And not to get too technical, but a celebrity is defined as somebody widely honoured and acclaimed. Maybe not in general usage, but I think you could argue Snooki being only a parody of a celebrity.

Dr Phil, Chuck Norris, Paris Hilton, Snooki -- here is your A-list of Hollywood. Really?
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:05 PM   #43
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I don't even think the Charlie Sheen kind qualify as "A-Listers." Now, their status as an A-Lister might effect the attention their self-destruction achieves.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:06 PM   #44
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The fame thing was the crux of the argument from the very get go, so it annoys me that it has digressed into "define A list" and "infamous vs famous."

It just wasn't the original context of this discussion, and feels like a total escape valve on what was bullshit
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:07 PM   #45
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I also question if Snooke's fame goes beyond a certain age group. Jike as in everyone knows who Johnny Depp is more or less, Snookie? Not so much,
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:08 PM   #46
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This is getting so specific now. Look, people know her, people that watch the same type of programming as WWE know her. That's all that matters to WWE, they don't care if she is an actor, musician, model, tv host, reality star, sports star, IT DOESN'T MATTER she is famous and relevant to the audience that watches WWE.

You can use the word infamous, famous, a-list, d-list... it doesn't matter, Snooki = ratings that's all that matters here. Ratings are not defined on quality, just quantity okay, thats it.

I am not in an argument about "a-list" celebrities or "d-list" celebrities it doesn't matter, she equals ratings and thats all I am saying.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:08 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lock Jaw View Post
I'd say there are two types.

A-Listers: Big huge names whose very presence is a sight to behold

A*-Listers: Household names who have become so known for their crazy antics/shenanigans that people are interested/constantly talking about them. (Charlie Sheen category)

Snooki and the cast of Jershey Shore do not fit in either category of A-listers.

I'd say that the "Jersey Shore" brand/name is certainly an A-List brand/name, with people knowing of it even if they don't watch.... but the cast members themselves, on their own? They don't make the cut.
It's just frustrating that you originally responded "No they aren't." to the statement, "They are genuinely famous."

How am I expected to not disagree with that, and now the argument is being changed.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:11 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeritron View Post
The fame thing was the crux of the argument from the very get go, so it annoys me that it has digressed into "define A list" and "infamous vs famous."

It just wasn't the original context of this discussion, and feels like a total escape valve on what was bullshit
What the hell are you talking about? The initial point of this thread was why have the quality of celebs gone down, IE Muhammad Ali is now Snooki. Mr T is now Kevin Federline etc...
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:12 PM   #49
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The beauty of it is that I am right there with you guys in the obvious assessment that she's a no-talent clown shoe that will fade from the spotlight in less than 2 years.
I'm in no way defending her honor or the validity of her fame.

This is really just a matter of logic and recognizing facts/pop culture/reality, to me anyways.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:12 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan X View Post
This is getting so specific now. Look, people know her, people that watch the same type of programming as WWE know her. That's all that matters to WWE, they don't care if she is an actor, musician, model, tv host, reality star, sports star, IT DOESN'T MATTER she is famous and relevant to the audience that watches WWE.

You can use the word infamous, famous, a-list, d-list... it doesn't matter, Snooki = ratings that's all that matters here. Ratings are not defined on quality, just quantity okay, thats it.

I am not in an argument about "a-list" celebrities or "d-list" celebrities it doesn't matter, she equals ratings and thats all I am saying.
Jersey Shore = Ratings, it'll be interesting to see if Snookie = ratings.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:12 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lara Emily View Post
What the hell are you talking about? The initial point of this thread was why have the quality of celebs gone down, IE Muhammad Ali is now Snooki. Mr T is now Kevin Federline etc...
The argument, not the thread topic.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:14 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lara Emily View Post
Jersey Shore = Ratings, it'll be interesting to see if Snookie = ratings.
It's been shown before that this stuff doesn't usually translate between mediums.

I don't think Snooki should boost Raw's ratings too much, tbh. A little.

But it should also be noted that I don't think George Clooney appearing on Raw would have a major impact on the ratings either.
People are either watching wrestling or not, at the end of the day. Most of the time cross-appearances are pretty minor in impact.

I doubt ratings is their main concern though. It will probably get them on some media outlets tomorrow, during Wrestlemania season to boot. And Vince just likes to have his company in any kind of spotlight.
It's a good take.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:17 PM   #53
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Yup which is why I wish they wouldn't bother, it doesn't do great business, and it's rarely entertaining,

I think Cyndi Lauper, Mike Tyson circa 1998, Mr T, and Ali are the only ones that did any sort of real business, maybe Lawrence Taylor too.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:17 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lara Emily View Post
What the hell are you talking about? The initial point of this thread was why have the quality of celebs gone down, IE Muhammad Ali is now Snooki. Mr T is now Kevin Federline etc...
I just want to point out that this is actually an interesting side point. Maybe that's indicative of trends in pop culture and fame, in general, rather than just wrestling.

I think it takes less to be a huge celebrity now

You're probably never going to see a celebrity on the scale of Michael Jackson ever again. Instead, there is a slew of them in the mold of Snooki, Kim Kardashian and K-Fed.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:18 PM   #55
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That was a bad choice of words from me. I make those a lot because I generally suck at explaining stuff/"talking".

I'd say "Jersey Shore" is genuinely famous. Snooki is famous in the way that occasionally you will hear her name, but what I meant is that people who don't watch the show will hear the name and think "Who is this person, and why should I care" unless it says FROM JERSERY SHORE in equal parts. If it is just "Snooki", people not acquainted with the show will just pass it by.

Don't really know how to explain this/convey it properly, and there have probably been a dozen posts in between now, with all the time I've tried to figure it out.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:18 PM   #56
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The argument, not the thread topic.
The argument started because you said she was A-list.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:19 PM   #57
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:20 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lara Emily View Post
Yup which is why I wish they wouldn't bother, it doesn't do great business, and it's rarely entertaining,

I think Cyndi Lauper, Mike Tyson circa 1998, Mr T, and Ali are the only ones that did any sort of real business, maybe Lawrence Taylor too.
I think most of the attraction appearances did them favors. Trump, Mayweather, etc.

That's because there was an actual PPV and media build surrounding them. It was actually marketed.
I think guest appearances are "just for fun" and show, unless there is an actual event built around them.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:21 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeritron View Post
I just want to point out that this is actually an interesting side point. Maybe that's indicative of trends in pop culture and fame, in general, rather than just wrestling.

I think it takes less to be a huge celebrity now

You're probably never going to see a celebrity on the scale of Michael Jackson ever again. Instead, there is a slew of them in the mold of Snooki, Kim Kardashian and K-Fed.
That's BS, of course you'll see super Celebs, Brad Pitt is a super celeb, flash in the pans have always existed it's just easier to become one

It's definitely more indicative of where wrestling has gone then of fame in general, WWE rarely attracts um respectable celebs anymore.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:21 PM   #60
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The argument started because you said she was A-list.
According to my monitor, it's because you said she was D-List
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:24 PM   #61
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She is I stand by that, still makes her famous tho

Actually it technically started when Jordan X said that Snookie counts to him on the same level of fame as Ali.


Which is why I said D-List


Basically

Topic: Have you noticed how the quality of Celebs has gone down over the years. WWE once got Ali to appear now look at them

Jordan X: What about Snookie?

Catch my drift?
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:29 PM   #62
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I think you're blurring the lines between level of fame and level of critical acclaim/'respect'.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:31 PM   #63
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Well no shit but guess what that's the point of the fucking topic, the quality of Celebs has gone down.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:31 PM   #64
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Bingo. That's all I'm saying!

That happens on here quite frequently though. In fact, nearly every thread.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:35 PM   #65
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Snooki is no diffrent from Paris Hilton. Famous for being a slutty party girl.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:37 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeritron View Post
Bingo. That's all I'm saying!

That happens on here quite frequently though. In fact, nearly every thread.
Are you just purposely being dense?

When someone asks why can't the WWE attract respectable huge Celebs like Muhammad Ali the correct retort isn't what about Snookie?
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:39 PM   #67
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thedamndest had the correct response to that
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:39 PM   #68
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Are people going to tune in to see the wreck that is SNooki on RAW - SHIT YES

And it will get press.

What at all would they do with someone Legit? Who really wants to someone like Kevin Spacey or any other A LISTER stand around and not really want to be on Raw. They are above,

The WWE is a spectacle and thye want to book celebrities that ARE just that. Not someone famous.

I dont get the debate here.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:41 PM   #69
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NEXT WEEKS RAW HOST - SIR PATRICK STEWART

BORING

NEXT WEEKS RAW HOST - OJ SIMPSON

RATINGS
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:41 PM   #70
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LOL this is a mess people. He said she said, I dunno! Snooki is famous, I understand WWE wanting her on Raw.

If she Ali? No way, and I didn't say that they were on the same level. But come on, she is pretty relevant right behind Sheen and The Earthquake.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:42 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lara Emily View Post
Are you just purposely being dense?

When someone asks why can't the WWE attract respectable huge Celebs like Muhammad Ali the correct retort isn't what about Snookie?
HEre is another difference:

WrestleMania - The Biggest Event of the Year

RAW In Tulsa - Not so much
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:42 PM   #72
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Quote:
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NEXT WEEKS RAW HOST - SIR PATRICK STEWART

BORING

NEXT WEEKS RAW HOST - OJ SIMPSON

RATINGS
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:45 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan X View Post
LOL this is a mess people. He said she said, I dunno! Snooki is famous, I understand WWE wanting her on Raw.

If she Ali? No way, and I didn't say that they were on the same level. But come on, she is pretty relevant right behind Sheen and The Earthquake.






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Old 03-14-2011, 05:46 PM   #74
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The Earthquake needs to show up on RAW. SEEEEERIOUS heat and a potential star-making vehicle for Yoshi Tatsu.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:47 PM   #75
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Could you imagine if Cena FU'd The Earthquake? Move over Hogan and Andre.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:47 PM   #76
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I think the Earthquake as a heel manager. he broke the nuke plants to reawaken Adam Bomb and bring him back to challenge Cena.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:47 PM   #77
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The Earthquake is a D-List geological event at best, come on
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:48 PM   #78
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Basically The Earthquake is the modern day Heenan.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:51 PM   #79
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What I'm saying is, why can't they get respectable disasters to show up at PPVs anymore?
Take a cue from MLB. They ahd an Earthquake show up at the World Series.

Nobody respects this effort from WWE anymore. TNA has the market cornered with Jeff Hardy
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:52 PM   #80
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Back to the Title.

Way to tout your own point. You cant self gloss man. Calling your own point interesting (when in fact it is not) is like nicknaming yourself T BONE.
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