DISCUSSION - Is anyone else UNIMPRESSED with Chris Benoit and Edge as FACES?

[tucsonspeed6]

Originally Posted by Heyman DISCUSSION - Is anyone else UNIMPRESSED with Chris Benoit and Edge as FACES? Here is my take on this: I am pretty disappointed with the FACE reactions that Edge and Chris Benoit have been receiving. In both cases, it has been LUKEWARM to say the very least. In Benoit'scase, the guy is a main-eventer. Granted he's been receiving face pops, but are they really that explosive? I mean - does Benoit get the same level of face pops as.........Guerrero, John Cena, Chris Jericho, or even RVD? (in RVD's case, his face pops were TWICE as loud in year 2001). What scares me the most about all of this, is that Benoit is a NEW World Champion. Therefore, shouldn't his face pops be at its LOUDEST (or close to it) right about now???!??! hmmmmmmmmmmmmm?!?!?!

I have no problems with Benoit right now. Sure he doesn't have that "kick the boss's ass" gimmick or the mic skills of mic skills of Rocky, but he does have something that the fans like, and that's the ability to work in the ring. Maybe the world isn't going to hell in a hand basket...maybe the marks out there aren't so stupid that they don't know a good match from a bad one. He does get good pops though.

And for christ sakes, is anyone else downright BORED with Edge right now? GOOD GOD! The WWE will have to do a helluva lot more if they want Edge to be popular with the fans. If you ask me, Edge is kind of like Angle.........in that, he's FAR better as a heel. Some guys, for whatever reason, just aren't that COOL as faces. Edge just may be one of those.

Edge didn't really do it for me on Monday. I just didn't go for the whole energetic "I'm gonna kick your ass" thing he was doing. He seemed like a rehash of HBK to me for some reason. Maybe you're right on this one. Maybe a heel turn would do him some good. And BTW, I actually enjoy Angle as a face. I think he can play either with just as much of the crowd behind him.

Heyman's Solution: Turn Both men heel in the VERY near future. 1) Have Edge re-unite with Christian. Get rid of that dipshit Tyson Tomko while you're at it. Edge and Christian don't have to be a tag team (nor do I want to see that happen). Maybe tag on random occassions. However - have them have a solid alliance with one another. They can help each other out in HIGH PROFILE singles matches. I'd even go as far to say...............Have them "Share" Trish Stratus! Yes - you read that right. Not only would the "slut" chants increase ten-fold for Trish, but Edge and Christian would also get a helluva lot more attention. I'm not suggesting that Trish make out with both Edge AND Christian on the same show, but it can be IMPLIED that she's with both men. One week, she can make out with Edge, Christian on the other.

Maybe if they kept Tomko around. IE: Edge gets on a losing streak and gets himself into a fix that results in his needing protection. He sees that his old buddy Christian has a big guy and so the two bury the hatchet. The end result is a 4 person stable with E&C hiding behind their big friend. Either way, they stuck Tomko with Christian for a reason. He hasn't said anything on the mic yet, so I'm guessing they don't feel his mic skills are up to par yet, so they stuck him with Christian. I'd feel flattered if I were x-tian and they wanted me to be somebody's mouthpiece. It shows that he's got charisma and hella tight mic skills. Woot and stuff

2) As far as Mr. Benoit is concerned, I'd like to see him become the heel that he was in year 2000 (i.e. a super serious heel that cripples his opponents). I truly believe that Benoit can garner much better heel heat (as opposed to 'face pops') if he acts like he did in year 2000. With Benoit as a heel, he can then begin a program with Chris Jericho. In year 2000, these guys had an awesome feud going. I see no reason why they can't do it again. Ultimately, Jericho "one-ups" Benoit and goes on to feud with Randy Orton (In the feud between Jericho and Benoit, both men get CLEAN victories....before Jericho defeats Benoit again).

to heels winning cleanly. The last heel that I remember winning cleanly on a consecutive basis is Taker, and that was a while ago...

So.......Who turns FACE if Edge and Benoit go HEEL???!?! In my opinion, turn KANE and TRIPLE H (or Randy Orton.....I'll elaborate on this a little later) FACE. 1) With Kane, I'd have him become a badas monster that randomly attacks heels. Remember back in 98'........when he kept interrupting matches only to chokeslam people in the middle of the ring? (he got sent to the assylum after this). I'm thinking that the same can happen here. Kane can kind of be "Austin-like"........in that, he does things on his own terms. Kane can cause Bischoff all sorts of problems. If Kane is to work as a face however, he can't show ANY "emotion". No "feelings". Bad ass face Kane = MARKETABILITY! Mark my words.

Too reminiscent of Austin. Not many Smarks liked Austin's random heel stunning as the "sheriff" and I'm guessing that not too many more would care for Kane's random heel chokeslamming as the "gentle monster"....Oh, after reading over this again, I see that you actually mention Austin in the post. Shame!

2) It's obvious that Triple H and Randy Orton will be headed for a collision course in the not-so-distant future. The question is, who do you turn FACE? While it's arguable that it's WAY too soon to turn Orton face, you also have to understand that Triple H sucks DONKEY BALLS as a face. For this reason alone, perhaps it's better that Orton turns face. Is it possible that Orton can garner a whole bunch of "Randy!" chants?

THere's a fine line between being a super heel and a super face. The most hated of heels can be loved almost instantly, because they've got that charisma that pushes them to the extremes. There's a little Loose Cannon in all of us just tearing at the walls, waiting for Orton to turn face so we can all mark the f*** out... Think of the Rock. Remember "Die Rocky Die!"? There were people out there who wanted the guy dead, yet he turned out to be the biggest face in the past decade at least.

Here's what I'm thinking - In the "not-so-distant" future, Orton can begin another mini-program with Shawn Michaels. This time however, Orton defeats HBK CLEANLY......in a hard fought match. After the match, the two men shake hands. Meanwhile, Triple H continues to be frustrated as he can't win back the World title. Triple H starts to get jealous of Randy Orton......who the fans are now starting to RESPECT. This leads to the conflict. Orton then gets the BOOT from Evolution (in the "Evolution" stable, Batista now represents "the future").

With Orton as a face, here are the potential advantages: a) Guys like Christian can become more prominent. Think about it - Christian has momentum right now, but he's behind Orton in the 'ladder' (in regards to 'who's next in line' for a main-event push). with Orton as a face, the door opens up for Christian. The same can be said for Batista. With Orton out of Evolution, Batista can play a more prominent role within the group.

He did mention the Heavyweight title in last Monday's show. Its a word that I haven't heard coming from him in a long time. (Could he actually make an attempt at the title? )

b) We don't have to see Triple H as a face. *shudders at the thought* c) If my plan goes down and Benoit does indeed make the TURN, then a face Orton can perhaps challenge Benoit at next year's Mania'. More than likely however (and the better and more logical scenerio), we'll see Hunter make the face turn. Still - I think this scenerio does sound interesting.

at the idea of HHH being a face...

Better yet would be Orton v. Cena in a interpromotional match.

[Kane Knight]

DISCUSSION: Why does Heyman obssess over homsexuality?

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight DISCUSSION: Why does Heyman obssess over homsexuality?

I'm not sure where this originated from to be honest. For whatever reason, I always get disturbing mental images of Jim Ross giving a double handjob to Test and Albert.....and then I laugh.....and then feel the need to say something homosexual-related.

[Kane Knight]

That disturbs me a little. Did you have an encounter with a priest or Michael Jackson when you were younger?

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight That disturbs me a little. Did you have an encounter with a priest or Michael Jackson when you were younger?

Yes. With Michael Jackson.

It was 11 years ago in 1993. I was still a young boy at the time.

It was very fun.

Michael Jackson was very nice, and I went on a lot of rides there at the amusement park.

On my last day there, I had wine and alcohol for first time in my life. Michael Jackson gave it to me.

I got drunk for the first time.

I don't remember what else happened that night, but I remember sleeping in same bed as Michael Jackson.

The next day, my parents came and picked me up from Michael Jackson's ranch. We went home.

For the next week, I always shitted funny. Whenever I shit, it sprayed everywhere in the toilet. I must've had some bad food at Michael Jackson's place.......but my stomach didn't feel upset.

It was strange.

A few years later (circa 1999), I put two and two together and figured out what really had transpired.

[Rob]

I love how people say X wrestler can't bring in new fans. Do any of you actually talk to people who don't watch wrestling about wrestling angles? More than likely not. Any research I do is when I talk to my friends who used to watch and don't know. One week before No Way Out, I told 6 of my friends who all lost interest with wrestling that Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit were getting the world titles on the next 2 PPVs and since then they have all watched more shows than me. They also like what they are seeing because it's different from what they last saw.

A couple of my friends who didn't understand the Benoit love years ago from the smarts told me when they watched Backlash that "Benoit just looked so bad ass. He has that added X factor". I watched the show later and totally saw they meant. Just the way he walks around with the belt, posing right in front of Michaels and Hunter and shouting in their faces after the match. He has that added cockiness and the promos will come in due time (nobody can deny that they are slowly getting better each week). Also, matches get all and people are never gonna see a bad Chris Benoit match.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Rob I love how people say X wrestler can't bring in new fans. Do any of you actually talk to people who don't watch wrestling about wrestling angles? More than likely not. Any research I do is when I talk to my friends who used to watch and don't know. One week before No Way Out, I told 6 of my friends who all lost interest with wrestling that Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit were getting the world titles on the next 2 PPVs and since then they have all watched more shows than me. They also like what they are seeing because it's different from what they last saw. A couple of my friends who didn't understand the Benoit love years ago from the smarts told me when they watched Backlash that "Benoit just looked so bad ass. He has that added X factor". I watched the show later and totally saw they meant. Just the way he walks around with the belt, posing right in front of Michaels and Hunter and shouting in their faces after the match. He has that added cockiness and the promos will come in due time (nobody can deny that they are slowly getting better each week). Also, matches get all and people are never gonna see a bad Chris Benoit match.

Its almost impossible to know what will draw, you just have to be ready to capitalize when someone gets hot.

I mean most of my friends who only watched wrestling when they were kids (Hogan era) and the peak of the Attitude era dont care much for Benoit (except for the fact that he's Canadian....errrr Atlantian), they look at him and I've actually had multiple people say this to me: "like Benoit could actually take Kane". So for some people, if you aint big you cant be a main eventer.

[Rob]

I'm not saying they will draw. I'm saying fresh faces will bring fans back as long as the product is still good.

[CBright7831]

*Triple H's theme starts*

Crowd: ...

*Triple H appears*

Crowd: ...

Lilian Garcia: Making his way down to the ring, from Greenwich, CT. He is the WWE World Champion, TRIPLE H!

Crowd: ...

*Triple H spits water*

Dumb guy in crowd: yeah!

The rest of the crowd: ...

[Rock Bottom]

Yes, an HBK heel turn wouldn't be hard at all. I mean you'd still have Michaels fans, same goes with anyone really, but... He got heat when he superkicked Benoit to sign that contract on RAW. Then Benoit has been getting more and more over, and Benoit just went over Michaels with a submission in that Backlash match. Now if Michaels were to do something dick-headed, I'm sure the fans would have no problem booing him.

The reason I bring up Benoit getting more over, is because he is restoring an element to wrestling... Called making main-eventers tap out. We have been fed so many guys (Austin, Rock, Triple H, Michaels, etc...) that don't tap cleanly... I mean honestly, when is the last time you seen any of these guys lose a match to submission? Last time I saw Rock do it, he was a midcarder jobbing to Shamrock. Last time I saw Austin do it... Was... I can't even remember.

It's such a big deal now that fans are going to chant, "YOU TAPPED OUT," to anyone who does that's main event, basically because "no one taps out," and it pussifies them, in a way, in some peoples' eyes. It's an odd point, but Benoit's submission victories are going to get people behind him.