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Old 07-02-2011, 01:51 PM   #41
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All I'm really pecking at is that Christian is obviously a heel, but his character isn't resonating as such for various reasons.
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Old 07-02-2011, 02:18 PM   #42
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he's the same CLB as he was in the early 2000s
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Old 07-03-2011, 12:53 AM   #43
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Oh, is that the point we're debating?

I thought the issue was that he wasn't using the standard chicken shit heel character and dirty moves.
I thought the point here was do you buy Christian as a heel. Him using the standard chicken shit heel character and dirty moves would further him as a heel. At least then he'd be getting more heat and not being a complacent half assed heel. B/c I personally think he's not getting over too well as a heel currently. His heel reactions were much better in 2005 when he was a CLB than today. I do like his character now, but it just seems to lack effort. Maybe if the WWE tried to actually push him instead of making him look weak, he'd be over more as a heel. And with Edge gone, SD needs someone who can be a dominant heel. Christian is one of the few who can be effective, but him being portrayed as a weak, pathetic, sore loser don't do him any favors character wise.
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Old 07-03-2011, 01:07 AM   #44
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I'll take this over a carbon-copy heel any day.

Either way, I'd bet on Christian cheating to win the belt at MitB.
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Old 07-03-2011, 01:23 AM   #45
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I think this version of him is more carbon copy. Mainly b/c he's stuck between not fully turning heel and not getting a strong reaction. I just hope since the contract signing went well for him, he'll actually win this time. Would sure make this fued more interesting.
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Old 07-03-2011, 01:28 AM   #46
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I think you're confused as to what "carbon copy" means.
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Old 07-03-2011, 01:39 AM   #47
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"Carbon copy" would be a cheap ripoff, which I think adequately describes his whole heel turn now. They need a replacement for Edge, so let's replace him with Christian. That would work, if WWE truly got 100% behind him being a top star. Obviously, Vince doesn't believe that...
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Old 07-03-2011, 01:42 AM   #48
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"Carbon Copy" means exactly the same.

As in, most of WWE's heels are "chicken shits" that cheat to win and tend to run away from the face. Or they're egomaniacs. Or both. And you often hear that fact bemoaned here on this forum. Now we're moaning that a guy isn't using those tactics to get over as a heel.

And honestly, I don't see any parallels between Edge and Christian as heels.
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Old 07-03-2011, 01:56 AM   #49
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Well, aren't you the genius. Oh, that's right, you're a poster on a wrestling forum, not a rocket scientist. Forgot for a minute and thought I actually cared what you think. My bad.

What you call a "carbon copy" has pretty much been the blue print for heels in the wresting industry since it's conception. To a very high success rate I might add. I get that what's going on with Christian is different, but it clearly isn't working for him. So obviously the majority of fans need to see that "chicken shit" or cheating to win to boo him. It surely made him more successful back in 2005 when his reactions were overwhelming and more appropriate for a heel. I hate conforming to streotypes as much as anyone, but in this case, what other option is there? B/c being that in between heel hasn't made him the face of SD yet,

And I didn't parallel Edge and Christian, I called him an Edge replacement. Two very different things...
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Old 07-03-2011, 02:09 AM   #50
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You effectively called him a Edge "ripoff".

Like I keep saying, I fully expect him to become the ALL OUT, FULLY FLEDGED CHICKEN SHIT, CHEATING heel AT SOME POINT.

This is called character progression. And it's fucking joyful to see it.

How many times does a persons whole character change when they become heel/face. Look at Orton, a guy that booted people in the head and tried to end careers as a heel, hugs Cena - a guy he had booted in the head and tried to end the career of - when he is forced to leave WWE. That's bullshit whether or not it's tried and tested/succesful/the standard for the industry.

God forbid we have a guy forced to breaking point by a catalogue of issues rather than just snapping after one incident.
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Old 07-03-2011, 02:31 AM   #51
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According to you, "ripoff" isn;t a carbon copy, so there really is no parallel by that logic. Effectively? Did I or didn't I? Can't say I did then didn't. Replacement was the exact word I used.

Maybe he will return to that, which he needs.

Character progression? I call it character destruction. It's one thing to build a guy forced to the breaking point. But, having him lose over and over doesn't ptogress anything, it bores the fans and makes Christian look inferior. Now, having him snap after the losses and winning the belt IMO would be character progression. The reaction he's getting only proves something is wreng with this heel turn.
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Old 07-03-2011, 03:13 AM   #52
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yay a semantics fight
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Old 07-03-2011, 03:15 AM   #53
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Looks that way.
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Old 07-03-2011, 05:05 AM   #54
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yay a semantics fight
I prefer to call it difference of opinion. Not really a fight if you discuss something. Fighting would be flaming back and forth for no reason. Ppl generally see things from their own POV, which is fine, as long as everything is discussed and on topic.

I personally don't care for the way Christian has been pushed since he turned heel. If someone sees something in it I don't, fine. Sometimes seeing an opinion other than your own gives you new perspective. I do think he still could be used properly, but as of now, I just don't think he's an effective heel.
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Old 07-03-2011, 09:48 AM   #55
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Christian is doing fine as a heel. His heat has been tremendous. He's still getting signs and chants and stuff, but so many heels get that, too. CM Punk and The Miz are arguably the two best heels in the WWE today, and they get their share of positive reactions, too. When Christian cues the crowd to boo, they boo.

The only problem I see is that so much of this feud seems inverted. Christian seems more sympathetic than Orton, really. I'm not saying Orton should be sympathetic -- I like the way his character is a ruthless bad-ass and hasn't changed much since turning; but the angle is interesting because there are still those shades of grey. I'm sure there are marks for Christian, who really got into his journey to the World Heavyweight Title that want to see him win the World Heavyweight Title from Orton who kicks people in the head when they are down.

In many ways, that's a good thing, don't get me wrong. I like that Christian is slowly edging into a heel character. He didn't hit Orton with the belt and then suddenly come out to his new theme, titantron, tights, haircut, etc. He's the same guy that truthfully thinks he's on Orton's level. As XL said, the "catalogue of issues" is building with Christian, and either he'll lose to Orton, or he'll cheat his ass off to win the title. I have a feeling that the destination is going to give more meaning to the journey.
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Old 07-03-2011, 11:47 AM   #56
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Quote:
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"Carbon Copy" means exactly the same.

As in, most of WWE's heels are "chicken shits" that cheat to win and tend to run away from the face. Or they're egomaniacs. Or both. And you often hear that fact bemoaned here on this forum. Now we're moaning that a guy isn't using those tactics to get over as a heel.

And honestly, I don't see any parallels between Edge and Christian as heels.
I think there are quite a few ways to get over as a heel, but Christian isn't really employing any of them. The fact that there is the "gray area" says it all, really. I'm not even saying that I dislike Christian's character. What I am saying is that for a heel, he's not being very heel.
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Old 07-03-2011, 02:50 PM   #57
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Thrilla, what would you do to make Christian YOUR IDEAL HEEL?
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Old 07-03-2011, 03:32 PM   #58
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I would have him rape Kelly Kelly in the middle of the ring.
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Old 07-03-2011, 03:32 PM   #59
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Or at least threaten to if Teddy doesn't give him another title shot.
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Old 07-03-2011, 03:49 PM   #60
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I would have him rape Kelly Kelly in the middle of the ring.
That'll do it.
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Old 07-05-2011, 03:49 PM   #61
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I think there are quite a few ways to get over as a heel, but Christian isn't really employing any of them. The fact that there is the "gray area" says it all, really. I'm not even saying that I dislike Christian's character. What I am saying is that for a heel, he's not being very heel.

That was basically my point in a nutshell. There's nothing wrong with being a shade of grey character wise, but he's not a believable heel. All due to him not using any of the usual ways to get over as a heel. I definately like Christian, as he's probably IMO the best complete wrestler on SD. But, compared to his 2005 heel run, this one looks like a total flop.
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:08 AM   #62
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I agree, he was great with Tomko. He needs some muscle for the rub, it would work both ways too though.

As a heel, he's the best when he has someone with him

Who would be ideal for the role? Mark Henry? I'd like to see that
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:15 AM   #63
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Christian needs God
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:17 AM   #64
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maybe Chris Masters, don't think hes doing much right now and he can do the 'comedy' stuff just like Tomko used to..
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:18 AM   #65
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Mason Ryan is the obvious choice becaise all he has to do is stand there and let Christian do all the talking. Also, who's with me that Chris Jericho and Christian would be the 4th greatest tag team in the history of pro rasslin since May 1995?
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Old 07-06-2011, 04:06 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Naitch View Post
I agree, he was great with Tomko. He needs some muscle for the rub, it would work both ways too though.

As a heel, he's the best when he has someone with him

Who would be ideal for the role? Mark Henry? I'd like to see that
The guy that immediately comes to mind is Brodus Clay. The WWE seem to like the guy, and he's played an important muscle role before, heading into the World Heavyweight Title match alongside Alberto Del Rio. Plus, he's got a WWE Film debut coming up.

The problem is, Clay and Christian were sort of feuding earlier this year -- but they can do a spot where Clay says that Christian earned his respect, whereas Del Rio ditched him. Christian's given him a chance to redeem himself on SmackDown!.
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:33 PM   #67
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Quote:
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maybe Chris Masters, don't think hes doing much right now and he can do the 'comedy' stuff just like Tomko used to..
I really like the sound of this, actually. I feel those two would play well off of each other.
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Old 07-06-2011, 01:27 PM   #68
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The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
The guy that immediately comes to mind is Brodus Clay. The WWE seem to like the guy, and he's played an important muscle role before, heading into the World Heavyweight Title match alongside Alberto Del Rio. Plus, he's got a WWE Film debut coming up.

The problem is, Clay and Christian were sort of feuding earlier this year -- but they can do a spot where Clay says that Christian earned his respect, whereas Del Rio ditched him. Christian's given him a chance to redeem himself on SmackDown!.
yes, I love this idea
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:40 PM   #69
captaincharismark
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Posts: 447
captaincharismark does not have that much rep yet (10+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shisen Kopf View Post
Christian needs God
LOL@Canadian Jesus
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