Do you believe that bands/musicians need to push the boundaries of music to be considered "great"? - Page 2

**FakeLaser** · 11-09-2011, 01:18 AM

That was the 78,000th post in this forum

**Buzzkill** · 11-09-2011, 01:32 AM

Gonna add a lot to this Animal Collective discussion but need to organize my thoughts. Hard to articulate why I love them so much.

But what Frazer said is a great start. On Avey Tare's raw emotion:

Probably the most emotionally powerful song I've listened to

**FakeLaser** · 11-09-2011, 01:38 AM

Yeah that's one of my favorite tracks of all-time

**FakeLaser** · 11-09-2011, 01:38 AM

So much more I want to articulate really but it's hard to put it all to words.

**Buzzkill** · 11-09-2011, 01:39 AM

Also, probably the most catchy and happy AC song:

Wait for the synth break at 2:03

**FakeLaser** · 11-09-2011, 01:41 AM

From ODDSAC

**Buzzkill** · 11-09-2011, 02:51 AM

K first, I completely see where you're coming from; I used to be a huge Animal Collective hater and just figured them for some pretentious, post modern atmospheric bullshit slingers. What makes them such an amazing band, to me, is that you can't pin down any single thing that makes them great. Now, I'm going to preface this by acknowledging that I am about to sound like a seriously pretentious bullshit slinger here but bear with me.

All of their songs vary so drastically from one another, but almost all of them is genius in its own way (don't get me wrong, there are some AC songs that I'm not into…mostly the purely atmospheric ones). At their core, they are fucking amazing songwriters that construct incredibly complex music whose success can hinge on a perfectly timed key change (Bluish is a great example of this), a cacophony of perfectly layered and inventive samples (Lion in a Coma), a pan flute solo out of nowhere (Graze), or an epic, epic build up and climax (In The Flowers) (for the record this is my #1 most epic song of all time, and is the closest I've come to getting the euphoria of "tripping" by listening to music). They might not grab you immediately, but after a few listens and you hear the whole songs within their own context, they make sense and they're effing brilliant.

They are the perfect mix of beautiful songwriting and manic, completely unheard of production techniques. When I first heard Animal Collective, all I heard was the crazy experimental sounds, and couldn't hear the amazing songwriting. Peacebone is a perfect example of this…It sounds at first like a muddled mix of clashing sounds, but when you play it on an acoustic guitar (It's really just E to A and back to E, then E to B and back) and sing along, it really is a beautiful song. Then when you add in the sound effects, it takes it to an entirely new level.

Top all of this off by the fact that every album is strong and unique, with barely any throwaway tracks (except for on the EPs, imo) along with their unbelievable progression since their beginning: just listen to how different Leaf House sounds from Daily Routine - yet each maintains that familiarity that frlzr was talking about

IN CONCLUSION, they create a style thats totally unique to them without compromising the things that make music great. Combined with what Faze Laker was saying, that is why they are probably my favorite band of all time.

**Buzzkill** · 11-09-2011, 03:13 AM

Kapoutman try this out:

**Kapoutman** · 11-09-2011, 07:59 PM

Really liked "For Reverend Green". It's more of my type. Feels more like a real "song", I don't know if it makes sense. "Summertime Clothes" is OK. Still need to listen to all of FLaser's links on the other page, but I gotta go play hockey.

Thanks guys.

**FakeLaser** · 11-09-2011, 08:41 PM

Yeah dunno. Feel like they are PROBABLY my favorite band of all-time too. Like they have surpassed all of the others I have called my favorite.

**FakeLaser** · 11-09-2011, 09:58 PM

Probably have said Sonic Youth for about 5 years but now it is probably Animal Collective

**Buzzkill** · 11-09-2011, 10:02 PM

Need to listen to Sonic Youth

**Buzzkill** · 11-09-2011, 10:02 PM

What happened to my other post wtf

**Buzzkill** · 11-09-2011, 10:03 PM

Also would really really suggest listening to all of these songs on headphones. Don't necessarily have to be great headphones but you'll get a lot more out of it

11-09-2011, 11:42 PM

Just listened to those Animal songs. I've said it before :these indie bands become popular because hipsters wanna out cool each other. Just like Bon Iver, that was terrible.

**FakeLaser** · 11-09-2011, 11:48 PM

That is a ridiculously uninformed and ignorant post. Just sayin

11-09-2011, 11:59 PM

I listened to the songs and they were terrible and I honestly don't know how people can say it's good.

**FakeLaser** · 11-10-2011, 12:22 AM

All right, that's your opinion. That much I can respect. But to say that the only reason people like them is to "out cool" each other is just ridiculous.

11-10-2011, 12:46 AM

In the end, they are trying to outcool me, which is a losing battle

**FakeLaser** · 11-10-2011, 01:08 AM

Clearly

**Buzzkill** · 11-10-2011, 03:12 PM

Gertner I know you're just being intentionally inflammatory but do you think that Kapoutman just suddenly had the urge to look cool on TPWW message forums and is lying about enjoying some of these songs

11-10-2011, 06:21 PM

I'm really not. I listen to some of this stuff and just can't imagine how people can honestly like this stuff, and I'm pretty open to all forms of music.

**Buzzkill** · 11-10-2011, 07:34 PM

I can understand being bewildered by Animal Collective, but Bon Iver seems like really straightforward, melodic and accessible music.

**Buzzkill** · 11-10-2011, 07:46 PM

BEAUTIFUL MUSIC

11-10-2011, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzzkill

I can understand being bewildered by Animal Collective, but Bon Iver seems like really straightforward, melodic and accessible music.

I just can't stand his voice. I can at least understand his appeal though.

**Kane Knight** · 11-12-2011, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FakeLaser

Really never listened to Mission of Burma so I can't comment. So it's possible that their sound predated the Pixies. I kind of forgot Rites of Spring even existed.

I GUESS Pixies are often credited with the whole "sound" and maybe it's not warranted. They were able to make the sound more poppy or accessible than MOB or Rites of Spring would have. At least as far as Rites of Spring go... not really accessible. Not that the Pixies were ever a "commercial" band by any stretch, but they have way more of a following than MOB or Rites of Spring could ever hope for.

And maybe that's more what I meant by revolutionized as opposed to created the sound, albeit unintentionally. Because really anything is going to be influenced by SOMETHING. Maybe the true greats are the ones who can put it all together and perfect it.

So basically, it's not who actually pushes boundaries, but who gets credit for it.

In which case, why even cite the Pixies? They're not exactly the ones who popularised it.

Why can't the Pixies be "great" regardless of whether they did something first (They didn't) or they popularised the sound (They didn't, their domestic popularity is largely restrospective)?

And now you have to get into "putting it together and perfecting it?" Nah, the Pixies made awesome music. I doubt many would argue it was the epitome of the sound.

Just go with it. You don't have to be "innovative" to be great. You don't have to do something new. You just have to make enjoyable music.

Otherwise, you "shoehorn" innovation into a lot of places it doesn't belong. Like Nintendo fans.

**FakeLaser** · 11-12-2011, 04:28 PM

I never said that you had to be someone who pushes boundaries to be great. I said that there are great bands that don't push boundaries, but perhaps those who do push boundaries are in an upper echelon of greatness.

**Buzzkill** · 11-12-2011, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FakeLaser

I never said that you had to be someone who pushes boundaries to be great. I said that there are great bands that don't push boundaries, but perhaps those who do push boundaries are in an upper echelon of greatness.

I agree with this 100%.

**Requiem** · 11-12-2011, 06:58 PM

Well in that case, I would say The Black Keys are not in that upper echelon of greatness by any means, but they are definitely one of the 'great bands' of this era and deserve the credit that goes with that for sure.

**FakeLaser** · 11-12-2011, 07:09 PM

I think that's the argument I've been trying to make the entire time.

**FakeLaser** · 11-12-2011, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FakeLaser

I guess I didn't really make my point there. My point is that you don't have to push boundaries to be just "great" but there's definitely a level above "great" that not even "great" bands can achieve without pushing boundaries, and pushing them successfully. Progression is important, as it is in any art, technology, etc.

**Requiem** · 11-12-2011, 07:31 PM

Also really don't know where the 'divide' comes in either. Because like, Pink Floyd is DEFINITELY one of those bands I would put in the upper echelon, but I wouldn't even consider a band like Animal Collective anywhere on the same level as Pink Floyd. Just don't see it, personally. Not trying to diss your music, but I feel that there are some bands that receive a type of universal recognition as 'great'. I would even consider Radiohead to be one of those bands even though they have a very polarizing sound. They very much influenced an entire generation.

Don't think bands like Sonic Youth and Animal Collective have anywhere near that sort of universal acclaim or even that level of appeal. Think the list you posted is more your own personal tastes as to what you think are the 'best bands ever', where I think there are definitely certain bands which fall into more of an 'upper echelon' so to speak. The Beatles, for sure, and I don't even care for them that much. But I understand the appeal and the reasons they are considered great.

**El Capitano Gatisto** · 11-12-2011, 08:37 PM

I think Animal Collective are decent enough but I don't really enjoy a lot of the wave of electronica/distortion/ambient/whatever stuff. I think Wavves and No Age are fucking dreadful. I think suggesting you have to push the boundaries and experiment to be great is, for many people, more a way of legitimising why you think your music taste is better than everyone else's (i.e. pretentiousness). I only say that because I look back at some of the things I thought and said when I was younger, and much of it was that kind of attitude and it was basically being a pretentious bastard. Being able to write great songs is more important than being willing to make your music sound dense and difficult.

**Buzzkill** · 11-12-2011, 08:51 PM

Yeah I really don't like Wavves and a lot of the lo-fi stuff that's coming out right now, but it's all a matter of taste really. I definitely see the appeal, I just don't enjoy listening to it; and I'm sure that's the case with the majority of people when it comes to AC

**El Capitano Gatisto** · 11-12-2011, 10:48 PM

Oh definitely it's a matter of taste, which is why I wouldn't credit these bands just BECAUSE they're doing what they are doing. I think you have to write great songs and albums to be a great band. Going back to Radiohead, I have found their recent albums good but kind of unremarkable. I much, much prefer the pretty mainstream Britpop sound of Pablo Honey and The Bends to anything they've released post-Amnesiac. I enjoy a really good song, whether the sound or arrangement is boundary-pushing. Lyricism is thing I admire most in any artist, if I were a musician I would want to be known for that, just like if I had the talent to be anything else, I'd want to be a writer.

I really like the weird stuff that Gruff Rhys, Final Fantasy and Andrew Bird do as well, in terms of sampling and looping stuff. It's all showing off really, but it's great to see a multi-instrumentalist live construct a song on stage with their gadgets.

**FakeLaser** · 11-13-2011, 11:30 AM

I like lo-fi. Wavves first album and EP were good but then he went all pop-punky MTVwave on King of the Beach (not that it doesn't have good tracks too). No Age - Nouns is one of my favorite albums. It's music for the summertime. Dunno. NEITHER of these bands are remotely revolutionary or close to "great" though. They're good though.

As far as Sonic Youth and Animal Collective go... of course they don't have the universal acclaim that Pink Floyd does. That doesn't mean that they haven't had far-reaching influence and are not innovative.

Sonic Youth basically redefined what is done with a guitar. They were the de facto leader of the no wave movement of the late 1970s and early 80s in New York, and basically CREATED or at the very least POPULARIZED the whole indie aesthetic as we know it today. Their influence is felt to this day on countless guitar-driven punk acts. They were never as commercially successful as Pink Floyd or The Beatles or anything like that. But does popularity or "mainstream" acceptance make a band great? And shit... Daydream Nation was preserved by the Library of Congress as something "culturally and or/aesthetically important."

Bands like Can or Kraftwerk were never commercially popular in the least, but I don't think you can discount their contributions to electronic music; and I think most would consider them "great" bands (if they aware of their existence, anyway.)

As far as Animal Collective goes... the extent of their influence is still somewhat unknown, as it is still kind of "their moment." They're arguably the biggest band in the world (indie-wise) and there are countless imitators out there. They basically accidentally birthed the entire "chillwave" genre which dominates a lot of indie today. Pretty much all of those guys are trying to recreate what Panda Bear perfected with Person Pitch, and they all fall short.

I read one review... I can't remember where it was, that basically said "if you want to know what music is going to sound like for the rest of the decade, there's usually a defining album that comes out around the middle of the decade and the rest will follow." That was for Feels, which came out in 2005. Not that the review is gospel or anything, but yeah.

I think that when this generation of music is looked back on, Animal Collective will be looked at as the forefront of innovation and quality.

**FakeLaser** · 11-13-2011, 11:31 AM

I guess my question then becomes... how important is mainstream acceptance or commercial sales in determining the greatness of a band?

If that's the case, there's basically 3 great bands, from where I sit..

The Beatles
Pink Floyd
Radiohead

Those are the only bands to experience widespread commercial and critical acclaim, while still being revered as GODS by the "underground."

**The Mask** · 11-13-2011, 11:45 AM

i think mainstream acceptance does play an important role, otherwise you could just end up picking your favourite bands and declaring them great.

actually i dunno, i guess it's how we're viewing the word "great" here. there are shitloads of bands who are "great" but not so many that are great in the legendary sense of the word. like i really love my bloody valentine and loveless is easily one of my top 5 favourite albums ever, but i wouldn't sit arguing with someone they are great in the beatles/floyd sense of the word.

then you have bands like the sex pistols and nirvana, both of whom i would consider great but it's as much for what they opposed/stood for at the time and the success they had as the alternative to what was the standard back then.

**The Mask** · 11-13-2011, 11:48 AM

also to go way back into this thread, i don't think joy division were great but they were definitely a band on the very brink of it when ian curtis offed himself. a lot of modern music couldn't have happened without new order, but if joy division had gone in that direction with curtis as singer they would have been on a whole different level.

11-09-2011, 02:51 AM	#47
Buzzkill Jamiroquai Bodega Posts: 18,627	K first, I completely see where you're coming from; I used to be a huge Animal Collective hater and just figured them for some pretentious, post modern atmospheric bullshit slingers. What makes them such an amazing band, to me, is that you can't pin down any single thing that makes them great. Now, I'm going to preface this by acknowledging that I am about to sound like a seriously pretentious bullshit slinger here but bear with me. All of their songs vary so drastically from one another, but almost all of them is genius in its own way (don't get me wrong, there are some AC songs that I'm not into…mostly the purely atmospheric ones). At their core, they are fucking amazing songwriters that construct incredibly complex music whose success can hinge on a perfectly timed key change (Bluish is a great example of this), a cacophony of perfectly layered and inventive samples (Lion in a Coma), a pan flute solo out of nowhere (Graze), or an epic, epic build up and climax (In The Flowers) (for the record this is my #1 most epic song of all time, and is the closest I've come to getting the euphoria of "tripping" by listening to music). They might not grab you immediately, but after a few listens and you hear the whole songs within their own context, they make sense and they're effing brilliant. They are the perfect mix of beautiful songwriting and manic, completely unheard of production techniques. When I first heard Animal Collective, all I heard was the crazy experimental sounds, and couldn't hear the amazing songwriting. Peacebone is a perfect example of this…It sounds at first like a muddled mix of clashing sounds, but when you play it on an acoustic guitar (It's really just E to A and back to E, then E to B and back) and sing along, it really is a beautiful song. Then when you add in the sound effects, it takes it to an entirely new level. Top all of this off by the fact that every album is strong and unique, with barely any throwaway tracks (except for on the EPs, imo) along with their unbelievable progression since their beginning: just listen to how different Leaf House sounds from Daily Routine - yet each maintains that familiarity that frlzr was talking about IN CONCLUSION, they create a style thats totally unique to them without compromising the things that make music great. Combined with what Faze Laker was saying, that is why they are probably my favorite band of all time. Last edited by Buzzkill; 11-09-2011 at 03:18 AM.

11-09-2011, 01:18 AM	#41
FakeLaser continental drift Posts: 46,731	That was the 78,000th post in this forum

11-09-2011, 01:32 AM	#42
Buzzkill Jamiroquai Bodega Posts: 18,627	Gonna add a lot to this Animal Collective discussion but need to organize my thoughts. Hard to articulate why I love them so much. But what Frazer said is a great start. On Avey Tare's raw emotion: Probably the most emotionally powerful song I've listened to

11-09-2011, 01:38 AM	#43
FakeLaser continental drift Posts: 46,731	Yeah that's one of my favorite tracks of all-time

11-09-2011, 01:39 AM	#45
Buzzkill Jamiroquai Bodega Posts: 18,627	Also, probably the most catchy and happy AC song: Wait for the synth break at 2:03

11-09-2011, 01:41 AM	#46
FakeLaser continental drift Posts: 46,731	From ODDSAC

11-09-2011, 03:13 AM	#48
Buzzkill Jamiroquai Bodega Posts: 18,627	Kapoutman try this out:

11-09-2011, 07:59 PM	#49
Kapoutman Hockey Superstar Posts: 11,381	Really liked "For Reverend Green". It's more of my type. Feels more like a real "song", I don't know if it makes sense. "Summertime Clothes" is OK. Still need to listen to all of FLaser's links on the other page, but I gotta go play hockey. Thanks guys.

11-09-2011, 08:41 PM	#50
FakeLaser continental drift Posts: 46,731	Yeah dunno. Feel like they are PROBABLY my favorite band of all-time too. Like they have surpassed all of the others I have called my favorite.

11-09-2011, 09:58 PM	#51
FakeLaser continental drift Posts: 46,731	Probably have said Sonic Youth for about 5 years but now it is probably Animal Collective

11-09-2011, 10:02 PM	#52
Buzzkill Jamiroquai Bodega Posts: 18,627	Need to listen to Sonic Youth

11-09-2011, 10:03 PM	#54
Buzzkill Jamiroquai Bodega Posts: 18,627	Also would really really suggest listening to all of these songs on headphones. Don't necessarily have to be great headphones but you'll get a lot more out of it

11-09-2011, 11:42 PM	#55
Gertner Guest Posts: n/a	Just listened to those Animal songs. I've said it before :these indie bands become popular because hipsters wanna out cool each other. Just like Bon Iver, that was terrible.

11-09-2011, 11:48 PM	#56
FakeLaser continental drift Posts: 46,731	That is a ridiculously uninformed and ignorant post. Just sayin

11-09-2011, 11:59 PM	#57
Gertner Guest Posts: n/a	I listened to the songs and they were terrible and I honestly don't know how people can say it's good.

11-10-2011, 12:22 AM	#58
FakeLaser continental drift Posts: 46,731	All right, that's your opinion. That much I can respect. But to say that the only reason people like them is to "out cool" each other is just ridiculous.

11-10-2011, 12:46 AM	#59
Gertner Guest Posts: n/a	In the end, they are trying to outcool me, which is a losing battle

11-10-2011, 01:08 AM	#60
FakeLaser continental drift Posts: 46,731	Clearly

11-10-2011, 03:12 PM	#61
Buzzkill Jamiroquai Bodega Posts: 18,627	Gertner I know you're just being intentionally inflammatory but do you think that Kapoutman just suddenly had the urge to look cool on TPWW message forums and is lying about enjoying some of these songs

11-10-2011, 06:21 PM	#62
Gertner Guest Posts: n/a	I'm really not. I listen to some of this stuff and just can't imagine how people can honestly like this stuff, and I'm pretty open to all forms of music.

11-10-2011, 07:34 PM	#63
Buzzkill Jamiroquai Bodega Posts: 18,627	I can understand being bewildered by Animal Collective, but Bon Iver seems like really straightforward, melodic and accessible music.

11-10-2011, 07:46 PM	#64
Buzzkill Jamiroquai Bodega Posts: 18,627	BEAUTIFUL MUSIC

11-12-2011, 04:28 PM	#67
FakeLaser continental drift Posts: 46,731	I never said that you had to be someone who pushes boundaries to be great. I said that there are great bands that don't push boundaries, but perhaps those who do push boundaries are in an upper echelon of greatness.

11-12-2011, 06:58 PM	#69
Requiem Posts: 19,301	Well in that case, I would say The Black Keys are not in that upper echelon of greatness by any means, but they are definitely one of the 'great bands' of this era and deserve the credit that goes with that for sure.

11-12-2011, 07:09 PM	#70
FakeLaser continental drift Posts: 46,731	I think that's the argument I've been trying to make the entire time.

11-12-2011, 07:31 PM	#72
Requiem Posts: 19,301	Also really don't know where the 'divide' comes in either. Because like, Pink Floyd is DEFINITELY one of those bands I would put in the upper echelon, but I wouldn't even consider a band like Animal Collective anywhere on the same level as Pink Floyd. Just don't see it, personally. Not trying to diss your music, but I feel that there are some bands that receive a type of universal recognition as 'great'. I would even consider Radiohead to be one of those bands even though they have a very polarizing sound. They very much influenced an entire generation. Don't think bands like Sonic Youth and Animal Collective have anywhere near that sort of universal acclaim or even that level of appeal. Think the list you posted is more your own personal tastes as to what you think are the 'best bands ever', where I think there are definitely certain bands which fall into more of an 'upper echelon' so to speak. The Beatles, for sure, and I don't even care for them that much. But I understand the appeal and the reasons they are considered great.

11-12-2011, 08:37 PM	#73
El Capitano Gatisto World Class Raconteur Posts: 29,478	I think Animal Collective are decent enough but I don't really enjoy a lot of the wave of electronica/distortion/ambient/whatever stuff. I think Wavves and No Age are fucking dreadful. I think suggesting you have to push the boundaries and experiment to be great is, for many people, more a way of legitimising why you think your music taste is better than everyone else's (i.e. pretentiousness). I only say that because I look back at some of the things I thought and said when I was younger, and much of it was that kind of attitude and it was basically being a pretentious bastard. Being able to write great songs is more important than being willing to make your music sound dense and difficult.

11-12-2011, 08:51 PM	#74
Buzzkill Jamiroquai Bodega Posts: 18,627	Yeah I really don't like Wavves and a lot of the lo-fi stuff that's coming out right now, but it's all a matter of taste really. I definitely see the appeal, I just don't enjoy listening to it; and I'm sure that's the case with the majority of people when it comes to AC

11-12-2011, 10:48 PM	#75
El Capitano Gatisto World Class Raconteur Posts: 29,478	Oh definitely it's a matter of taste, which is why I wouldn't credit these bands just BECAUSE they're doing what they are doing. I think you have to write great songs and albums to be a great band. Going back to Radiohead, I have found their recent albums good but kind of unremarkable. I much, much prefer the pretty mainstream Britpop sound of Pablo Honey and The Bends to anything they've released post-Amnesiac. I enjoy a really good song, whether the sound or arrangement is boundary-pushing. Lyricism is thing I admire most in any artist, if I were a musician I would want to be known for that, just like if I had the talent to be anything else, I'd want to be a writer. I really like the weird stuff that Gruff Rhys, Final Fantasy and Andrew Bird do as well, in terms of sampling and looping stuff. It's all showing off really, but it's great to see a multi-instrumentalist live construct a song on stage with their gadgets.

11-13-2011, 11:30 AM	#76
FakeLaser continental drift Posts: 46,731	I like lo-fi. Wavves first album and EP were good but then he went all pop-punky MTVwave on King of the Beach (not that it doesn't have good tracks too). No Age - Nouns is one of my favorite albums. It's music for the summertime. Dunno. NEITHER of these bands are remotely revolutionary or close to "great" though. They're good though. As far as Sonic Youth and Animal Collective go... of course they don't have the universal acclaim that Pink Floyd does. That doesn't mean that they haven't had far-reaching influence and are not innovative. Sonic Youth basically redefined what is done with a guitar. They were the de facto leader of the no wave movement of the late 1970s and early 80s in New York, and basically CREATED or at the very least POPULARIZED the whole indie aesthetic as we know it today. Their influence is felt to this day on countless guitar-driven punk acts. They were never as commercially successful as Pink Floyd or The Beatles or anything like that. But does popularity or "mainstream" acceptance make a band great? And shit... Daydream Nation was preserved by the Library of Congress as something "culturally and or/aesthetically important." Bands like Can or Kraftwerk were never commercially popular in the least, but I don't think you can discount their contributions to electronic music; and I think most would consider them "great" bands (if they aware of their existence, anyway.) As far as Animal Collective goes... the extent of their influence is still somewhat unknown, as it is still kind of "their moment." They're arguably the biggest band in the world (indie-wise) and there are countless imitators out there. They basically accidentally birthed the entire "chillwave" genre which dominates a lot of indie today. Pretty much all of those guys are trying to recreate what Panda Bear perfected with Person Pitch, and they all fall short. I read one review... I can't remember where it was, that basically said "if you want to know what music is going to sound like for the rest of the decade, there's usually a defining album that comes out around the middle of the decade and the rest will follow." That was for Feels, which came out in 2005. Not that the review is gospel or anything, but yeah. I think that when this generation of music is looked back on, Animal Collective will be looked at as the forefront of innovation and quality.

11-13-2011, 11:31 AM	#77
FakeLaser continental drift Posts: 46,731	I guess my question then becomes... how important is mainstream acceptance or commercial sales in determining the greatness of a band? If that's the case, there's basically 3 great bands, from where I sit.. The Beatles Pink Floyd Radiohead Those are the only bands to experience widespread commercial and critical acclaim, while still being revered as GODS by the "underground."