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Old 05-12-2004, 02:32 PM   #41
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He was shit in Japan. People have been spouting that line for 2 years now, all because that dickhead Pele said Butt was England's best player at the World Cup. People tend to ignore the fact that Pele says crazy shit all the time. I'd always have Scott Parker in there ahead of Butt, because he is infinitely more dynamic. Butt is a poor man's David Batty. Slow, no imagination, not a particularly good passer, and always looks sideways or backwards.

Butt has been wank his whole career, There is a reason he has never broken into the United first team properly, and it's because he isn't good enough.

Phil Neville is a more useful utility player than Carragher. Utility players are overrated, anyway. You need two players per position, and a couple of goalkeepers, and that fills the squad. If Wes Brown goes, as he should, there is an extra option at full back. Gary Neville can also fill in at centre back.

If Sven wants versatility, he should be bringing Chris Sutton, because not only is Sutton quality, but he can play in attack, midfield and defence. In fact, Sutton should probably be considered as a striking option anyway, but that is a different story.
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Old 05-12-2004, 06:31 PM   #42
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Pele had El Hadji Diouf in his top 100 living players.
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Old 05-12-2004, 07:28 PM   #43
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LOL ^

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto
If Sven wants versatility, he should be bringing Chris Sutton, because not only is Sutton quality, but he can play in attack, midfield and defence. In fact, Sutton should probably be considered as a striking option anyway, but that is a different story.
Chris Sutton is rubbish up front, scoring against Scottish keepers is neither big nor clever, and is not worth being pleased about.

He plays well at centre back, but truth is, playing in the Scottish league has turned him shitter then when he left the English league, and he will be off the pace.
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Old 05-12-2004, 09:23 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazz
LOL ^



Chris Sutton is rubbish up front, scoring against Scottish keepers is neither big nor clever, and is not worth being pleased about.

He plays well at centre back, but truth is, playing in the Scottish league has turned him shitter then when he left the English league, and he will be off the pace.
Shut up Dazz. Sutton is a great striker. He's played better in Europe over the past couple of seasons that any other English striker too. You talked about how good Flo was for Chelsea, and he was absolute shit in Scotland.

Can't argue with his scoring record in the Premiership. He had a bad season at Chelsea, but then if we wrote off every player who has went through bad times, there wouldn't be any good players in this world.
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Old 05-13-2004, 11:48 AM   #45
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No, Sutton was shit for Blackburn the season before, and if you look at fat bastards like John Hartson who can make it in the Scottish League, then you know the league is for jobbers.
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Old 05-13-2004, 12:03 PM   #46
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John Hartson finished top goalscorer in the Premiership before he went to Wimbledon from West Ham.

Going to Scotland doesn't make a good player rubbish.

Also, the reason Chelsea signed him was because he was playing so well for Blackburn.
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Old 05-13-2004, 12:15 PM   #47
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I said before the season it was a bad move signing him, the guy is overrated. If he was good upfront, he would have been regulary playing for England. As it happens, he is not good upfront, and was better in the few games he played at centre back.
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Old 05-13-2004, 12:20 PM   #48
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When I think of Chris Sutton I just think he's a cock because he turned down England B. And then he whines about not getting chances at international level. Maybe if you ****ing took them instead of being a whiney bitch about it when you had the chance you would be playing now.

Dick.
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Old 05-13-2004, 12:25 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazz
I said before the season it was a bad move signing him, the guy is overrated. If he was good upfront, he would have been regulary playing for England. As it happens, he is not good upfront, and was better in the few games he played at centre back.
Ok.
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Old 05-13-2004, 12:26 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packt up
When I think of Chris Sutton I just think he's a cock because he turned down England B. And then he whines about not getting chances at international level. Maybe if you ****ing took them instead of being a whiney bitch about it when you had the chance you would be playing now.

Dick.
I don't think he whines about not getting chances at international level, and considering that basically no one who played a B international under Hoddle ever got a real chance out of it, no matter how well they played, then there is hardly much point anyway.

Lee Bowyer did the same thing.
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Old 05-13-2004, 12:33 PM   #51
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Sutton did whine. But in all fairness, remember the time Le Tissier scored a hat trick for England B, and he was still overlooked for the A team? Whats the point of having a B team if they are not going to be given a chance in the A's.
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Old 05-13-2004, 12:38 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by WWEngland
The Rankings are a bunch of crap though,like a lot of Fifa things.

I mean how can Wales be so low despite winning against Scotland (and they're below them) and Hungary and getting to the playoffs.Also with Spain having to qualify through the playoffs i don't understand how they're third.Turkey are somehow 7th and Mexico could be between by at least 10 of the top 15 yet are 6th.

*rant over*
That is so true
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Old 05-13-2004, 12:38 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazz
Sutton did whine. But in all fairness, remember the time Le Tissier scored a hat trick for England B, and he was still overlooked for the A team? Whats the point of having a B team if they are not going to be given a chance in the A's.
I don't believe he did whine. Whining would be going to newspapers and saying "why aren't I being picked?"

Sutton was asked what he thought his chances were of being picked, and he quite rightly, and honestly, said he didn't think at this stage of his career he had any chance, considering he hadn't been looked at before now.

He said he thought Alan Thompson might have a better chance, because of where he played.
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Old 05-13-2004, 12:39 PM   #54
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Looks like he's being a bit of a whiny twat here and when he says things like this and this then who the fuck expects him to get a call up.
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Old 05-13-2004, 12:43 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packt up
Looks like he's being a bit of a whiny twat here and when he says things like this and this then who the fuck expects him to get a call up.
The second two are both Sutton's agent speaking.

The first one is what I was talking about. A journalist asked Sutton what his chances were of being picked by England. You'd do well to read the articles rather than the headlines. Everything Sutton said in that article is true. It's not whining, it's just the truth.
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Old 05-13-2004, 12:44 PM   #56
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And I don't give a shit about the crappness of the B-Team. Playing for country is an honour at any level and refusing to represent them and then going off sulking saying I won't play for the "proper" team strikes me as childish and immature. He sounds like some kid who didn't get the right Power Ranger toy or something. If he wanted an international career why turn your back on England and then say "HOLY SHIT I'M NOT BEING SELECTED".

Its the same when the whole England team were thinking of pulling out of Rio. Playing for your country is a priveledge not a right.
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Old 05-13-2004, 12:45 PM   #57
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Read the very bottom of the third link, about Sutton being no stranger to controversy, after refusing to play for England B against Chile in 98
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Old 05-13-2004, 12:47 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto
The second two are both Sutton's agent speaking.

The first one is what I was talking about. A journalist asked Sutton what his chances were of being picked by England. You'd do well to read the articles rather than the headlines. Everything Sutton said in that article is true. It's not whining, it's just the truth.
Yeah and his agent represents him. If his agent says that then what does he expect.

And hey maybe there isn't an "arrogance" in England... maybe he's just not good enough. That's not truth - thats his opinon.
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Old 05-13-2004, 12:59 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packt up
Yeah and his agent represents him. If his agent says that then what does he expect.

And hey maybe there isn't an "arrogance" in England... maybe he's just not good enough. That's not truth - thats his opinon.
There quite clearly is an arrogance when it comes to the English looking at Scotland. The Scottish league isn't close to the English in strength, but the fact is, Celtic got to the UEFA Cup final last season, knocking out two Premiership sides along the way. They also got to the quarters this season, knocking out Barcelona, who were in the midst of an incredible unbeaten run of form, with Ronaldinho playing some of the best football seen by any player around.

There is an obvious arrogance that sees people like Dazz, and alot of others like him, assuming that any player who goes to Scotland immediately becomes rubbish and not worth considering. As average as Scottish sides are, the quality of Celtic's side cannot be argued and they would hold their own against any Premiership side, as they've shown repeatedly.
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Old 05-13-2004, 01:03 PM   #60
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It's not arrogance though. Its fact.

Is the Scottish league weaker than the English one? Yes Fact.

Therefore is it easier for a player to succeed in the Scottish league? Yes Fact.

Its not that Sutton becomes shit when he moves to Scotland its just that all of his achievements are lessened by the fact that he's against weaker opposition.
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Old 05-13-2004, 01:04 PM   #61
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His achievements in the UEFA Cup? How do they become lessened? In fact, surely they become strengthened.
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Old 05-13-2004, 01:05 PM   #62
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Hey I never doubted Thompson, but yes IMO Scotland is home of English failures, and people who are not good enough, the ones who are good enough leave as soon as they get the chance.

And its more Sutton I cnanot stand because of how rubbish he was for Chelsea, if you had to watch him that much for Chelsea in a season when he scored one home goal, you would hate him too. Not to mention him being a prick to Leboeuf the season before, for no reason. The guy is a prick and the sooner he realises he doesn't deserve to play for England the better. Like I say he isn't bad at the back, but England have better to play there, and we already have enough good midfielders too, I do not think that because of his veristality he should get into the squad, unless of course, he was at least half decent.
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Old 05-13-2004, 01:14 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto
His achievements in the UEFA Cup? How do they become lessened? In fact, surely they become strengthened.
Obviously his UEFA cup achievements are still seen in the same light. But scoring 19, 15, 4 and 11 goals in a weaker league hardly set the world on fire.
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Old 05-13-2004, 01:19 PM   #64
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I don't think Sutton is all about goals. What he gives is hard work, great technique, a good target man option, and he knows how to bully defenders. Heskey is a shite goalscorer, especially for England, but he is in there because of a supposed ability to bully defenders, which he doesn't have. Sutton can also be relied upon to finish a chance when he gets it.

Is anyone going to doubt the goal Sutton scored on Saturday? I don't care what league it was in, it was beautiful.

You also have to bear in mind with Sutton's scoring record is that he has spent alot of his time in Scotland playing behind a front two, as a defender, or in midfield.
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Old 05-13-2004, 01:38 PM   #65
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I can understand actually why Dazz doesn't like Sutton, because he was wretched at Chelsea.

I remember getting the nickname "Sutton" in school that year from a Chelsea supporter, because I kept missing shitloads of chances. He was the butt of alot of jokes.
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Old 05-13-2004, 01:46 PM   #66
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Exactly, thats what I was trying to say in my last post, that I will never forgive him for being one of the biggest wastes of money in Chelsea's history, and £10million was a very big price tag at the time.
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Old 05-15-2004, 01:16 PM   #67
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Well i was watching the Leicester game today but from what i saw of the Villa game i saw why J'Lloyd Samuel shouldn't be in the side right now.

Ronaldo just seemed to run him ragged more often than not and if he can't deal with players like that then he definetly isn't ready to take on the better wingers out there.
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Old 05-15-2004, 08:26 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto
People have been spouting that line for 2 years now, all because that dickhead Pele said Butt was England's best player at the World Cup. People tend to ignore the fact that Pele says crazy shit all the time.
the more I read that, the more i laugh
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Old 05-15-2004, 09:23 PM   #69
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rio ferdinand was by far england's best player at the world cup, then we signed him. that was pretty awesome.
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Old 05-16-2004, 08:57 AM   #70
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My Team....

GK - James - He's the best we've currently got, yep he makes mistakes (although his concentration has vastly improved over the past few years). He's been terrific for England, he commands the box well and has a presence about him. Big strong athlete. Robinson has been very poor this season, I know the Leeds have a poor defence and have taken all the blame but some of Robinsons goalkeeping has been incredibly poor, plus he lacks experience, and is overweight. If only Kirkland was available, he is a very good prospect, as is Matt Murray of Wolves.

LB - Ashely Cole - Fast & quick on the turn. Usually exposed for England due to lack of midfield cover and thus usually blamed by pundits and commentators for all of England's problem which in my opinion is unfair as when Bridge plays he is usually exposed too, yet this goes unoticed - this problem is down to poor midfield play and bad tactics on behalf of Sven. Bridge is good cover for Cole and I rate him highly, but Cole get the nods. Samuel has improved greatly this year and should be third in line.

RB - G. Neville - Based on experience and his overall awareness, the nod has to go to Neville. Yes, he's not perfect and it would be a lot better if he stopped hoofing long hopeless balls forward for England - again probably down to poor tactics from Sven. Johnson should be taken as a back up to Neville, and be taken for the experience, not quite ready for first choice but he will be Englands future right back in years to come.

CB's - Terry, Campbell - Campbell picks himself, rock solid defender with good pace, his only downfall is his poor ability on the ball, but this is not essentail as long as he does his job well. Terry has to be first choice because there is no one better available, very overrated by the media, he will get better as the years go by but is prone to lapses in concentration and is not as quick as you'd like your centre back to be, but still a good defender. Back up defenders should be Carragher & L.King. Carragher for his versatility and his great defensive ability and King because when used as centre back can be a great defender (as proved against Portugal). Southgate & Gardner shoudl not be taken, Gardner because he's quite simply a terrible defender although he has the ability to improve - he has pace & is big and strong. Southgate shouldnt be taken because all he does in moan, everytime he is not picked for England he runs of to the papers complaining. Face it son, your not as good as you think.

Defensively we have pretty good cover everywhere even with Ferdinand & Woodgate unavilable. Now the midfield and the strikeforce are quite a problem. In all honesty I think Sven should drop his "favourites" and play people who will die for the England shirt. People playing shit should not automatically be first choice. I'm looking at you Scholes & Butt. Scholes has not even played well for England for years, who cares about the lack of goals, if he was trying and playing well I wouldnt be too bothered, but Scholes looks like he'd rather be somewhere else when he plays for England. The diamond will not work in every game and I would say it is alot safer to play a straight 4 accross the midfield, that way, the full back should get appropraite cover.

MC - Gerard - Been brilliant for Liverpool this season, carried them single handidly. England's first choice center midfielder, no doubt. Used to think he was over-rated because all he did was play hopeful long balls and get praised for it, but he's definatly reduced them this season.

MC - Hargreaves - Now this is where Sven has to be brave, he has to ditch the United duo and play someone who can help sit in front of the defence. The Gerard/Scholes partnership will never work, never has, never will. I can see this, why cant Sven? Scholes cant defend and playing them together restricts Gerard's attacking strengths, infact if Gerard try's to attack (see Macadonia) the entire midfield loses shape and the opposition teams can cut through it like a knife through butter (again see Macedonia). Butt wont be match fit and has been terrible since his performance in Japan 2 years ago. Hargreaves is the best option, he can defend and he creative on the ball. Playing Lampard/Gerard/Scholes against France is suicide.

RM - Beckham - The most overrated player in the world, hit his peak a few years ago and I dont think he's been the same since. Although he is the tick of the England team and probably needs to play, if only he'd cut out most of the long balls.

LM - Dyer - Hasnt had his best season but has electric pace, so what if he cant cross with his left foot? England havent got the perfect left sided midfielder and we should quit moaning about it. The best team in the currently Arsenal (Lost-0), they have no left footed left winger, does it bother them? No. Dyer should play like Ljungerg, he has the pace, he's better on the ball then Ljungberg, and can attack with good flair and pace, something which the England midfield currently lack.

FW - Heskey - He's had a poor season, he's got a crap touch and a poor goal scoring record. Unfortunatly England have no one better, Ameobi is the the next best thing in line but lacks the necessery experience. If Newcastle had played him more often this season he could have been in the England squad. Look at the positives, Heskey has pace, strength and is a good team player with a great work rate and played a stormer against Birmingham, now if he could do that in Euro 2004.

AM - Lampard - Just behind Heskey I would play Lampard, he was voted the best English player in the league this season by his fellow professionals, he was only beaten to the best player in the league by the almighty Henry. If Lampard cant get in teh England side, what does that say to other trying to break into the team? That it doesnt matter how well they play because people playing worse then them are first choice? Owen should be dropped because he's lost it. His pace, his ability to dribble - no longer there. Now he's just an average striker that misses too many chances. These days he's so poor you barely notice that he is playing. He's gone stale at Liverpool, leave Owen... before its too late.
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Old 05-16-2004, 09:04 AM   #71
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You wouldn't play Owen. Our most consistent striker, if we don't play him I'll personally shoot Erikson muself for free.
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Old 05-16-2004, 09:48 AM   #72
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Sucks that Shearer isn't in the team.
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Old 05-16-2004, 09:57 AM   #73
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Owen does miss a lot of chances but he's the best forward we have,so he should play.
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Old 05-16-2004, 10:04 AM   #74
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If Kirkland could go 5 minutes without breaking something id definatly have him in the squad ahead of Robinson. He's big and athletic. He's got a big presence. He's better than Robinson.
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Old 05-16-2004, 10:07 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WWEngland
Well i was watching the Leicester game today but from what i saw of the Villa game i saw why J'Lloyd Samuel shouldn't be in the side right now.

Ronaldo just seemed to run him ragged more often than not and if he can't deal with players like that then he definetly isn't ready to take on the better wingers out there.
what are you implying, you cunt
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Old 05-16-2004, 10:26 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mask
what are you implying, you cunt
He probably means that ronaldo will run samuel ragged in the euro 2004.
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Old 05-16-2004, 11:06 AM   #77
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Red face
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mask
what are you implying, you cunt
That Ronaldo isn't the best winger in the world yet,you bastard.
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Old 05-16-2004, 11:12 AM   #78
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I would only play Owen because we have no one better, but he is rubbish.

I read the News Of The World's little section about it, and our four likel attackers to be picked (well that NOTW think, which includes Rooney ) have scored just 11 more then Henry on his own this season. If you look at what France have to offer, in terms of just their Premierhsip people of Gallas, Vieira, Pires and Henry then it looks bad for England. But LOL at NOTW saying the only thing that helps England is the fact that Desailly will prolly be centre back for France, so true .
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Old 05-16-2004, 11:17 AM   #79
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Rooney will definetly be going.

I think it's just Vieira and Henry who we'll need to be weary of as we have players just as good as Gallas and Pires imo.
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Old 05-16-2004, 11:17 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WWEngland
That Ronaldo isn't the best winger in the world yet,you bastard.
He will be though, mark my words.
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