Maybe the WWE lacks faith in Randy Orton?

Originally Posted by shock&awe [ That IC title had like no credibility what so ever before he was champion. It was tossed around from wrestler to wrestler and nobody ever defended it. Orton gets the belt and not only does he defend it a lot, but he puts on great matches too.

how long has Orton been IC champ-5 months? and how many times has he defended it-twice? Orton has been delivering great matches lately, but you're living in a f.ucking dreamworld if you consider him to be a 'fighting champion'[/QUOTE]

First of all, nice way to FU** up the quote. And I didn't know Orton books his own matches. It's not like he says that he wants to defend his IC title on any given night or anything. Here are all the title defenses he's had so far

He defended it against RVD right after he won it on Raw
He defended it against RVD and Booker T on Raw
He defended it against Val Venis on Heat
He defended it against Foley at Backlash
He defended it against Edge last week on Raw.

He's defended it a couple of times at House Shows too against Xtian and Benjamin.

But seeing as how the IC title was never being defended before Orton held the title, that's pretty good.

Originally Posted by shock&awe [ That IC title had like no credibility what so ever before he was champion. It was tossed around from wrestler to wrestler and nobody ever defended it. Orton gets the belt and not only does he defend it a lot, but he puts on great matches too.

how long has Orton been IC champ-5 months? and how many times has he defended it-twice? Orton has been delivering great matches lately, but you're living in a f.ucking dreamworld if you consider him to be a 'fighting champion'[/QUOTE]


First of all, nice way to FU** up the quote. And I didn't know Orton books his own matches. It's not like he says that he wants to defend his IC title on any given night or anything. Here are all the title defenses he's had so far

He defended it against RVD right after he won it on Raw
He defended it against RVD and Booker T on Raw
He defended it against Val Venis on Heat
He defended it against Foley at Backlash
He defended it against Edge last week on Raw.

He's defended it a couple of times at House Shows too against Xtian and Benjamin.

But seeing as how the IC title was never being defended before Orton held the title, that's pretty good.

Originally Posted by shock&awe [ That IC title had like no credibility what so ever before he was champion. It was tossed around from wrestler to wrestler and nobody ever defended it. Orton gets the belt and not only does he defend it a lot, but he puts on great matches too. how long has Orton been IC champ-5 months? and how many times has he defended it-twice? Orton has been delivering great matches lately, but you're living in a f.ucking dreamworld if you consider him to be a 'fighting champion'

Orton has defended the title more then twice buddy. And I didn't know Orton books his own matches because it's not like he has a say on wether or not he wants to defend his title on any given night. I never said he was a fighting champion, I was just statting the fact the the IC title was never getting defended at all before Orton got it. It seemed like a lost cause and now it has credibility again.

[KillerWolf]

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon Orton has defended the title more then twice buddy. And I didn't know Orton books his own matches because it's not like he has a say on wether or not he wants to defend his title on any given night. I never said he was a fighting champion, I was just statting the fact the the IC title was never getting defended at all before Orton got it. It seemed like a lost cause and now it has credibility again.

yeah, i wasnt saying that it's Orton's fault that he's not a fighting champion. and i know you didnt SAY "Orton is a fighting champion", but you kinda implied it (defends his title alot = fighting champion). and yes Randy Orton has given the IC title credibility. f.uck RVD, and i dont even remember who had it before RVD. Shane McMahon?
but you say he defends his title alot and i dis-agree. im not trying to take anything away from Orton, but i would rather see the IC on a "fighting champion" shades of Bret Hart.

[Azriel]

Uhh, 91 Farooq was a former world champion?

[91]

He sure is. WCW circa 1992.

[PureHatred]

Farooq aka Ron Simmons was the first African American to hold a World singles Belt in either of the Big Two. He beat Vader for the belt (and in another display of some fo the piss poor booking decisions by WCW, they had it happen on a house show).

You have to remeber, being on TBS, the WCW was very well liked in the South and Ron Simmons legitimately had one of the best careers ever playing football for FSU. He was well known before he started wreslting and was pushed as a 'blue chipper.' Ron Simmons was crazy over (especially regionally) at one point.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by big_bluto I've mentioned this before. The WWe is clearly pushing Randy Orton on RAW and John Cena on Smackdown. These 2 guys came into the company at pretty much the same time, and they've sensible split them up, but are steadily pushing them both towards main event status. Good. The differences between them are apparent: Cena is better on the mic than Orton. (maybe Orton needs a little more mic time) Orton (IMO) can beat Cena for moves in the ring. (but not by much) They've both got the physique, and the look. One's a face, the other's a heel. I think if Orton was a face on RAW, then this thread wouldn't be taking place. We would all be waxing lyrical about how cool Orton is, his promo's could be a bit better, and his matches are alright. Basically whatever we say about Cena now, then we could say about Orton if he was a face on RAW, and vice versa. Nice steady pushes for both these guys is what is needed, so keep up the good work WWE!

Except I appreciated Cena more when he was a heel, Cena feels less bland (Though his freestyles ar egetting dry), etc.

It's not an issue of face and feel.

[Wondermouse]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool Cena is 5 times better than Orton. Cena isn't riding on his families coattails to get into wrestling, and he has taken a gimmick that hasn't worked for anyone and mad it work for him. All the other hip-hop gimmicks have been the way to wrestle crap. Men on a Mission, Rikishi Fatu's first stint, Road Dogg and K-Kwik(Crush, whatever), and Grand Master Sexay & Scotty Two Hotty just to name a few have all sucked. Cena has over come some huge obstiacals while Orton has been paired with Ric Flair and HHH, two of the biggest names, and has had fueds with some of the biggest names, and still only draws just mid-carder, I'm suppose to boo him so I am going to, heat. So it is completely unfair to judge Orton and Cena. Orton has been manufactured and shoved down our throats while Cena made himself and is arguable the biggest (or second biggest) draw of Smackdown (he is defenatly the Rob Van Dam of Smackdown........well the way RVD was to ECW, not how he is in Smackdown, because RVD would then be the RVD or Smackdown, you know what I mean).

In my opinion, Cena's just living off of cheap heat, pandering to the crowd, and doing the same pop signatures every time. He needs to tone down the gimmick, and get more serious, IE: not rapping every time he's out.

I prefer Orton.

- He's a great seller. In the Venis/Orton matchup a few weeks back, he sold his knee like death, and then used that to hit the RKO out of nowhere.
- He's got a ton of mannerisms down. He's Randy Orton, not anyone else, and you know it. Unlike some people like Shelton Benjamin, he's got a pretty good character.

He's 23. He's a bit loose and sloppy in the ring with regards to his offense. When he turns face, that won't matter as much, because the face contributes less offense overall.

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon OOOOOOOOOKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK. First of all to the poster Edge up there, you said that spitting in Race's face made you sick. Well no sh**. I thought it was suppossed to make you jump for joy amd do cartwheels all around the room. To ME, Orton and Christian are the two hottest wrestlers on Raw right now. I guess I am a little biased with the whole young, arogant, cocky type of gimmick, but whatever. But, you got to give Orton credit where credit is due. That IC title had like no credibility what so ever before he was champion. It was tossed around from wrestler to wrestler and nobody ever defended it. Orton gets the belt and not only does he defend it a lot, but he puts on great matches too. Yeah, before you say, but Michales, RVD, Jerichom and Foley carried him to great matches, well it takes two people to make a match not one. Well, not for JBL. Orton's promos are getting better and better as the months go on. He's only 23, I mean give him like 5 years before he starts delievering some real good ones. There is one thing though that makes me believe he's going to be huge. You may have noticed over the past few weeks that the fans have started to cheer FOR Orton and have been doing thr "Randy" chants. This hapened with Cena, Rock, DX, where they were heel and the fans loved them. That's kind of a prelude that better days are ahead. All in all, I don't care what others think about him. He entertains me on Raw and that's really all that matters to me. If he's a flop in the end, I'll admit it, but right now, he's no where near being a flop.

First of all. I was just trying to say that I think Orton might be a we bit better than the CLB right now. As is Chris Jerichio.

And no I would not jump for joy when a young man spits in a Ledgends face. Im a big fan of Orton but I want to see wrestleing not this sh*t.

[Wondermouse]

Then why are you watching WWE?

[Wildcat789]

First off, please DON'T judge Orton off of the credibility that he gives the I.C. title. Booker, to Christian, to RVD. Each one of those were extremely bland and unentertaining champs (except for maybe Christian). Orton has put so much into that belt, it's unbelievable comparitively to what others have.

Secondly, Orton has put on some of the best matches in the last months that he's owned the title. I don't understand what you could possibly find wrong with Orton v. Foley. That match was absolutely classic, I've watched it 4 times and I'm still not tired of it.

LC is absolutely 100% in everything he said. I couldn't have put it better myself. Props to him.

Bluto is correct as well, Cena is pushed on SD, and Orton gets pushed on Raw. Makes sense, doesn't it? I found that Cena was shoved down our throats when he first came. I didn't have a problem with it, and the fans in the crowd don't have a problem with Orton getting pushed either. If it comes to the point where a top heel can get chants, then it looks damn good for him if you ask me.

Besides, who's better on Raw to push towards main event status. Please indulge me, b/c the only other guy I can look at and say so is Christian.

[Batsu]

I get what Kane Knight is saying...

Randy Orton is good enough on his own...but WWE should be cautious not to pull another "Brock Lesnar" and have too much hype behind the machine. The good thing is that Orton (like Lesnar before him) has delivered, so it's not going to harm him too much. However, this almost ruined the career of The Rock before a few chance happenings changed it...

while Booker T was a cool IC champ, he shouldn't have even worn it except maybe during Invasion. He, like Chris Benoit, is a bonafide main eventer, and should be pushed as such, nothing less.

Christian was actually one of the better IC champs...right now, Orton reminds me of Christian's hold of the belt...

and RVD...he, too...got the belt too late, but his feuds while holding it produced some interesting matches. Rob Van Dam's a riot to watch sometimes... with his constant taunting.

I think Orton is just carrying the torch of quality IC belt holders such as Benoit, Jericho (definitely), The Rock, and others.

His "hit it from anywhere"/Diamond Cutter-inspired finisher, the RKO also gives him the heat he needs to keep his push going. Don't think the same thing would have happened with the Overdrive/O-Zone (which I still maintain is a good finisher, it just is a little more involved than the RKO...it's like Big Show and his Hog Log...if he wasn't the Big Show...that would be more difficult to pull of on some people)

[CBright7831]

Originally Posted by HardyStonerfan Orton's okay, and your right he's getting annoying real quick. I've gotten to the point that I change the channel when he comes on TV. Give me either Hardy anyday.

Orton > J.Hardy

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Originally Posted by CBright7831 Orton > J.Hardy

My grandmother > Jeff Hardy.

Anyone can fall from high places.

Originally Posted by Wondermouse Then why are you watching WWE?

I did not say that I hate everything in the WWE that I just want to stop watching it.I'm saying I don't like to see World Wide Entertainment wast 5 minuits of our time showing a 23 year old spit in an old mans face,thats all.

[Wildcat789]

Uh..it's World Wrestling Entertainment, first of all.

Second of all, it's called a wrestler's 'character'. Without a character, guys like Undertaker, Booker T, and Eddie Guerrero would be the same as guys like Nathan Jones and Matt Morgan.

I understand your standpoint, that you don't like his character. But not everyone likes to watch 20 minutes of "Can you dig it, sucka?" or "Coach is a popcorn fart". It's all opinion based, but to want to turn off the WWE for the imput of character on a show, well you may as well have just said that you don't like the concept of sports entertainment PERIOD.

[Vastardikai]

Originally Posted by Wildcat789 Uh..it's World Wrestling Entertainment, first of all. Second of all, it's called a wrestler's 'character'. Without a character, guys like Undertaker, Booker T, and Eddie Guerrero would be the same as guys like Nathan Jones and Matt Morgan. I understand your standpoint, that you don't like his character. But not everyone likes to watch 20 minutes of "Can you dig it, sucka?" or "Coach is a popcorn fart". It's all opinion based, but to want to turn off the WWE for the imput of character on a show, well you may as well have just said that you don't like the concept of sports entertainment PERIOD.

*misses WCW. sighs*

Watching some of the Cage Matches DVD, especially the NWA shit.

I just remember a time when there was a choice between Sports Entertainment and Wrestling.

Originally Posted by Wildcat789 Uh..it's World Wrestling Entertainment, first of all. Second of all, it's called a wrestler's 'character'. Without a character, guys like Undertaker, Booker T, and Eddie Guerrero would be the same as guys like Nathan Jones and Matt Morgan. I understand your standpoint, that you don't like his character. But not everyone likes to watch 20 minutes of "Can you dig it, sucka?" or "Coach is a popcorn fart". It's all opinion based, but to want to turn off the WWE for the imput of character on a show, well you may as well have just said that you don't like the concept of sports entertainment PERIOD.

Ok I know that its called World Wrestleing Entertainment, fine I don't have a problem with Orton's gimmick ( most off the time ) And I'm not shure if you have noticed but I was adressing the matter with Orton going out into the crowd and spitting in Harley Race's face. I know Orton's gimmick is based on disrespect fine and I know not everybody likes to watch 20 minuits of " Coach is a pop corn fart " but not everbody likes to watch five minuits of " I'm going to do to you what I did to Mic Foly " I mean if five minuits of down the drain bull shit is part of World Entertainment then the wrighters have really got shit for brains.

[Marc the Smark]

They do this with a lot of people. They want to push them, so they push them down our throats. Then we end up hating them. Not "heel" heat, but "get out of the building" heat.

[KillerWolf]

[QUOTE=Batsu]
and RVD...he, too...got the belt too late, but his feuds while holding it produced some interesting matches. Rob Van Dam's a riot to watch sometimes... with his constant taunting.

QUOTE]

are you talking about ???

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Edge Ok I know that its called World Wrestleing Entertainment, fine I don't have a problem with Orton's gimmick ( most off the time ) And I'm not shure if you have noticed but I was adressing the matter with Orton going out into the crowd and spitting in Harley Race's face. I know Orton's gimmick is based on disrespect fine and I know not everybody likes to watch 20 minuits of " Coach is a pop corn fart " but not everbody likes to watch five minuits of " I'm going to do to you what I did to Mic Foly " I mean if five minuits of down the drain bull shit is part of World Entertainment then the wrighters have really got shit for brains.

It seems to have gotten the desired effect from most people. It's made Orton's character look like an asshole, it's made people want to see him defeated.

If that's a waste of five minutes, the WWE needs to waste more time.

You know what? It's a work. It was blatantly obvious that it was. It's not that horrible a thing, no worse than his other "Spit in the face" deals.

And please. Your spelling is making your posts borderline unreadable.

[Fox]

First of all, Randy Orton never actually spit in the face of Harley Race. If I remember correctly, Mick Foley came out and saved him. So STFU.

Secondly, Randy Orton is a great talent, no doubt about that. He's a decent wrestler, he's withstandable on the mic, and he's got a great look. However, the problem with Randy is that, simply, he's still too green. How many great matches has he had since entering the WWE? I only count one, and that was a beautiful story of a match, planned out by a legitimate author, Mick Foley. The argument that it takes two to tango is invalid here, as Foley was obviously the inventor of all the big spots, and acted as ring general (controlled the pacing) all throughout the match.

Kurt Angle came into the WWE in 2000 and ripped some shit up. He had great mic skills, a legitimate athletic background, and was wrestling like a veteran after about four months. Today, the guy is a God of professional wrestling, and will probably go down in history as one of the best ever. The difference between Orton and Angle is that Kurt can wrestle a main-event pace, and understands the psychology of a match much better than Orton does. I mean wow, Orton faked a knee injury to jump up and pop Val Venis with the RKO. It's not that hard to come up with a "surprising" finish with that kind of a move.

Bottom line: Randy Orton is a dirty diamond, but it's only a matter of time before that dirt weathers away, and Orton will shine like the champion that he can be. But not yet.

[Kane Knight]

Never, if the fans tire of him before he can find his polish.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Honestly, I like Randy. He's got a great look, he's fairly talented in the ring, he has great instincts (I say this because back when he botched the RKO, he didn't freeze up, he went right back and tried it again.) and he's got decent mic skills. The problem with him, like everyone said is he's to green.

Another thing that I think will be a problem down the line is they are pushing him as The Rock. So far, the evolution of Orton has been identical to that of Rocky, and no knock to Orton but he's no Rock. You can't push two people the exact same way, and expect the fans to respond. Especially if the second coming of the character isn't as good as the first.

He'll make it, but there will be a lot of bumps in the road.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Originally Posted by Edge Ok I know that its called World Wrestleing Entertainment, fine I don't have a problem with Orton's gimmick ( most off the time ) And I'm not shure if you have noticed but I was adressing the matter with Orton going out into the crowd and spitting in Harley Race's face. I know Orton's gimmick is based on disrespect fine and I know not everybody likes to watch 20 minuits of " Coach is a pop corn fart " but not everbody likes to watch five minuits of " I'm going to do to you what I did to Mic Foly " I mean if five minuits of down the drain bull shit is part of World Entertainment then the wrighters have really got shit for brains.

That was one of the most incoherent post I've ever read on this board. You have no room to talk about someone having shit for brains if that's the way you regularly type.

Originally Posted by HeartBreakKid2k That was one of the most incoherent post I've ever read on this board. You have no room to talk about someone having shit for brains if that's the way you regularly type.

Well it's pretty obvious that some people in the WWE do. And no, I hardly ever say that about people but...... So a normal person would make us watch five minutes of someone spitting in someones face ? I know it's ment to be " Entertainment " But the best way they can Entertain me is showing some Wrestleing.

[Batsu]

Originally Posted by shock&awe Originally Posted by Batsu and RVD...he, too...got the belt too late, but his feuds while holding it produced some interesting matches. Rob Van Dam's a riot to watch sometimes... with his constant taunting. are you talking about ???

Yes, of course.

Wasn't that RVD-Guerrero ladder match for the IC belt? That match was one of the better things about RAW when it was the suckier brand.

[Gerard]

Originally Posted by HeartBreakKid2k My grandmother > Jeff Hardy. Anyone can fall from high places.

*marks out for your grandmother falling down the stairs*

Beat that hardy

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Gerard *marks out for your grandmother falling down the stairs* Beat that hardy

Jeff Hardy has announced he'll bump of the Empire State Building.

[Batsu]

Originally Posted by HeartBreakKid2k Honestly, I like Randy. He's got a great look, he's fairly talented in the ring, he has great instincts (I say this because back when he botched the RKO, he didn't freeze up, he went right back and tried it again.) and he's got decent mic skills. The problem with him, like everyone said is he's to green. Another thing that I think will be a problem down the line is they are pushing him as The Rock. So far, the evolution of Orton has been identical to that of Rocky, and no knock to Orton but he's no Rock. You can't push two people the exact same way, and expect the fans to respond. Especially if the second coming of the character isn't as good as the first. He'll make it, but there will be a lot of bumps in the road.

Yeah. You hit the nail on the head. They shouldn't try to push him as The Rock...because The Rock came out of something just plain awful. The "Legend Killer"/arrogance gimmick is good enough....

[Gerard]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Jeff Hardy has announced he'll bump of the Empire State Building.

Good, then we won't have to see him make a comeback to wwe.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Gerard Good, then we won't have to see him make a comeback to wwe.

You kidding? With how poor the judgment of the WWE is, and their standards for taste, they'd prolly scoop up the stain, put it in a dayglow jar, and job Matt to it.

[Gerard]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight You kidding? With how poor the judgment of the WWE is, and their standards for taste, they'd prolly scoop up the stain, put it in a dayglow jar, and job Matt to it.

And now entering the ring....weighting next to nothing....being carried by lita in a jar...squish hardy.

I can just picture that fued, squish is perched ontop of a door which matt opens and he falls and clonks matt on the head, then knowing the wwe usual writing techniques the next week lita is in love with the jar of squish.

Originally Posted by Edge Ok I know that its called World Wrestleing Entertainment, fine I don't have a problem with Orton's gimmick ( most off the time ) And I'm not shure if you have noticed but I was adressing the matter with Orton going out into the crowd and spitting in Harley Race's face. I know Orton's gimmick is based on disrespect fine and I know not everybody likes to watch 20 minuits of " Coach is a pop corn fart " but not everbody likes to watch five minuits of " I'm going to do to you what I did to Mic Foly " I mean if five minuits of down the drain bull shit is part of World Entertainment then the wrighters have really got shit for brains.

That post reminded me of sexymanalive... *shudders*

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Gerard And now entering the ring....weighting next to nothing....being carried by lita in a jar...squish hardy. I can just picture that fued, squish is perched ontop of a door which matt opens and he falls and clonks matt on the head, then knowing the wwe usual writing techniques the next week lita is in love with the jar of squish.

And it still makes more sense than half the storylines on TV.

[JeremyTB29]

Randy has the look,the charisma and awesome mic skills.That's why he is being pushed.The same reason Cena is getting pushed,the same reason the Rock got Pushed when he started out.

if you got those qualities you don't need to be a good wrestler.