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Old 06-22-2015, 07:44 PM   #41
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Goldberg was another one that was mishandled. Not that they pushed him too quick or anything, cause dude was on fucking fire. They practically had to push him.

But the way he was handed everything on a silver platter, and never went through "paying dues", definitely gave him a huge ego by all accounts. I mean there was no real way for him to traditionally pay his dues since he was red hot right from his first match, but I think they could have handled things differently backstage.

The whole Jericho thing never should have gone down the way it did, and the people in charge should have tried a little harder to get Goldberg to understand the benefits of working with Jericho, and maybe fucking explain how the wrestling business works.
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Old 06-22-2015, 07:51 PM   #42
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"Paying dues" is the most retarded nonsense ever. Almost everyone has an ego in wrestling. You have to. Also, who cares as long as they draw money.
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Old 06-22-2015, 07:53 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Jazzy Foot View Post
It's stating the obvious but the fact WCW relied so heavily on massaging the egos of it's bigger name ageing draws over younger rising talents meant that it was no surprise that the likes of Jericho, Guerero and Benoit and even Wight would jump ship. With Paul Wight like Khali, there is really only so much you can do with a giant before the storylines start becoming tedious and perhaps it was time for him to move on. The other three never got the praise they deserved by WCW and it's a shame because I was pumped when Benoit won the belt but then deflated instantly when he left. Just shows you how stupid people were behind the scenes to not be in tune with what people wanted.


I guess that then justifies the push Daniel Bryan received post 2010 though I've never taken to him: WWE listening to the fans. But I'd have much rather watched Daniel Bryan v Brock Lesnar at WM 31 than Reigns v Lesnar, worst WM main event since WM 2000 and Rollins cashing in was its only saving grace.
Reigns vs Lesnar was incredible.
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Old 06-22-2015, 08:08 PM   #44
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You honestly believe that is Daniel Bryan did not comeback until the day after Mania Roman would have been getting booed out the building at every event post rumble?
Did I ever say that anywhere? No, no I did not. Of course Bryan coming back was what gave Reigns so much heat. Anyone who'd dispute that is a raging idiot.

Reigns was over with the fans for sure at that point. Nowhere near the level he should have been for what they wanted him to do, but he was very over. But guess who else was over as hell with fans? Zack Ryder.

Being over does not by any means equal "ready". Reigns wouldn't have gotten booed out of the building if Bryan hadn't come back but he'd still have been nowhere near where he needed to be to be "the man". His push was premature and completely mishandled, period.
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Old 06-22-2015, 09:32 PM   #45
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It's hard to argue with the HHH push of 2002-onward because it was just fucking annoying and his run in 2003 is what turned me off of the product for a good 7 years, the final straw being HHH/Nash Hell in a Cell.

However, HHH could still go for the most part at that time, but the 1999 heel push he received was just atrocious because barely anyone bought into it, and by the time he earned it/was ready in early 2000, he had already had 3 title reigns and 6 months of a bad main event push while the Rock feuded with Billy Gunn, The British Bulldog, Al Snow and Big Show while putzing around with the Rock and Sock Connection.
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Old 06-22-2015, 09:35 PM   #46
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Did I ever say that anywhere? No, no I did not. Of course Bryan coming back was what gave Reigns so much heat. Anyone who'd dispute that is a raging idiot.

Reigns was over with the fans for sure at that point. Nowhere near the level he should have been for what they wanted him to do, but he was very over. But guess who else was over as hell with fans? Zack Ryder.

Being over does not by any means equal "ready". Reigns wouldn't have gotten booed out of the building if Bryan hadn't come back but he'd still have been nowhere near where he needed to be to be "the man". His push was premature and completely mishandled, period.
How was it premature and mishandled besides for Bryan returning so soon? They were building him up for an entire year.
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Old 06-22-2015, 10:49 PM   #47
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"Paying dues" is the most retarded nonsense ever. Almost everyone has an ego in wrestling. You have to. Also, who cares as long as they draw money.
Of course you have to have a certain amount of ego and arrogance to work in wrestling.

But letting a guy who is green as fuck do whatever the fuck he wants just because he is drawing money at the time, is extremely shortsighted, and bad for business in the long term.

Also, "who cares as long as they draw money" was probably the attitude wcw management took when all the top stars and their mothers were all in some kind of control of the booking in wcw, and that promotion is dead and gone while Vince, who runs a way tighter ship and puts people in their place, is still thriving after all these years.
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Old 06-22-2015, 11:01 PM   #48
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How was it premature and mishandled besides for Bryan returning so soon? They were building him up for an entire year.
Really doesn't matter how you build him up, or for how long. If he doesn't have the talent to be there, then he's not ready.

And actually they really didn't do a very good job of building him up.

Being the ass kicker of the shield, and broke Kane's elimination record, which was a good start, but between that and the rumble win, he did nothing. Absolutely nothing of any signifigance. He had had a throwaway feud with Kane (fucking everyone has had a throwaway feud with Kane. It means nothing anymore.) and then he got hurt. Then he came back and won the rumble.

Most big time players have a long exciting journey to reaching the level of main eventer, and it makes seeing that wrestler win the championship really mean something. But Reigns didn't have that. He didn't have any memorable feuds, or have a solid run with the IC or US title. He was in a cool faction, and then all of a sudden he was just there, at the top of the card. That can work for world beaters like Goldberg or Ultimate Warrior (who still captured the Us and IC titles repectively in their meteoric rises.) but Reigns, while an intense personality, really isn't that guy.
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Old 06-23-2015, 01:35 AM   #49
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Pretty much everything Fignuts said x10.
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Old 06-23-2015, 09:10 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by KIRA View Post

I was annoyed by HHH steamrolling over completion and 20 min promos every week. But it turned to hatred after he beat Booker T. To this day I think that shouldn't have happened especially the way they played up Booker's troubled background and how he rose above that and played it against Hunters quasi racist rich snob. It could've been a real story of triumph and instead the match had a shit finish with Triple H retaining.
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The only win of Triple H's I agree with others about during that period.
Disagree. Booker T wasn't elevated enough to win the title at that point, they shouldn't have brought race into it though.
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Old 06-23-2015, 09:18 PM   #51
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Benoit is another one. Though that one was planned from the start and then went horribly afterward.
Which in turn led to the horrible first WHC run for Orton.
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Old 06-23-2015, 09:47 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fignuts View Post
Of course you have to have a certain amount of ego and arrogance to work in wrestling.

But letting a guy who is green as fuck do whatever the fuck he wants just because he is drawing money at the time, is extremely shortsighted, and bad for business in the long term.

Also, "who cares as long as they draw money" was probably the attitude wcw management took when all the top stars and their mothers were all in some kind of control of the booking in wcw, and that promotion is dead and gone while Vince, who runs a way tighter ship and puts people in their place, is still thriving after all these years.

There's wrestlers who have been around for years that you can say the sane thing about.
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Old 06-24-2015, 07:10 AM   #53
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Orton winning the World Title felt right at the time. It was the follow-up that was fucked.
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Old 06-24-2015, 07:28 AM   #54
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Rey Mysterio in 2006 takes the cake for me. I LOVED Rey and had since his WCW days. I always wanted to see him somehow, someway become the World Champ.

Then when they finally went for it, it was awful because it was really nothing more than Eddie Guerrero's death being exploited to the highest degree.
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Old 06-24-2015, 07:46 AM   #55
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The Rey push didn't sit well with me either. It just wasn't organic. The stuff with Randy Orton was also like...huh? If they wanted to push Rey Rey, he should have just gone straight against Kurt Angle.

Truth be told, given that the World Title had just been won by Angle in a Battle Royal, they should have just made the 2006 Royal Rumble for the vacant World Title and had Angle win it.
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Old 06-24-2015, 12:38 PM   #56
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The Rey push didn't sit well with me either. It just wasn't organic. The stuff with Randy Orton was also like...huh? If they wanted to push Rey Rey, he should have just gone straight against Kurt Angle.

Truth be told, given that the World Title had just been won by Angle in a Battle Royal, they should have just made the 2006 Royal Rumble for the vacant World Title and had Angle win it.
Same with Christian taking Edge's place in a ladder match. Could leave them both, really.
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Old 06-24-2015, 07:02 PM   #57
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King Kong Bundy's push in 86 leading up to WM2 was pretty atrocious. Zero build up to the match, Hogan won and that was pretty much it. Poor Paul Orndorff. Just peaked at the wrong time.
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Old 06-24-2015, 07:03 PM   #58
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Same with Christian taking Edge's place in a ladder match. Could leave them both, really.
Nah, Christian's push wasn't overdone enough.

Would definitely have cut Edge's push in two to give some to Christian.
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Old 06-24-2015, 10:32 PM   #59
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Christian had his own issues with Alberto Del Rio, so him going after the World Title made sense. What sucked was his booking on SmackDown afterwards. He really should have held the World Title until around Money in the Bank, scraping through by the skin of his teeth on his merits, before either a clean loss to Randy Orton pushed him over the edge, or he turned heel to keep the title.
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Old 06-24-2015, 10:34 PM   #60
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I never posted it in here, but leading up to SummerSlam '11 I remember thinking that the Street Fight between Orton and Christian at SummerSlam (or whatever gimmick match theirs was) would have been the perfect time to introduce some heel muscle for Christian. I thought "Diesel would actually be pretty cool." We had last seen him in the Royal Rumble that year as portraying the Diesel character. It turns out Kevin Nash did return at that PPV, but to screw CM Punk over.
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Old 06-24-2015, 10:35 PM   #61
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I do think Sheamus is immensely talented, but I feel that a lot of his pushes come at weird times. I don't think he was the best choice to win the 2012 Royal Rumble, or to win the WWE Title from John Cena at TLC '09 (that should have been Jack Swagger). And his WWE Title win during the Nexus stuff was kind of left field. I dunno -- I think he's talented and on paper should be a major star -- but feel that they've always gone about it at odd times.
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Old 06-24-2015, 10:39 PM   #62
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I remember Sheamus being built as a badass heel champ and then on an episode of Raw he was confronted by The Nexus backstage. Barrett flinched like he was gonna attack and Sheamus ran away like a little bitch yelling for Cena. It was the dumbest fucking thing ever.
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Old 06-24-2015, 10:55 PM   #63
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Lol remember when WCW all of a sudden put Kidman into a feud with Hogan? Oh my God was that awful.
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Old 06-24-2015, 10:58 PM   #64
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Didn't Kidman beat him too? lol
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Old 06-24-2015, 11:09 PM   #65
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Billy Kidman was wasted talent.
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Old 06-25-2015, 03:25 AM   #66
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You can't talk about annoying pushes without mentioning The Miz. Sorry, but he never should have been champion. Don't even think he should have EVER had a singles title, EVER..... Tag Titles, eh, I'm okay with because he had help to get over with Morrison & Big Show. But Miz as a solo act, don't buy it and never will.
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Old 06-25-2015, 07:44 AM   #67
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Edge, he bored me to tears in the ring and annoyed me on the mic. He was good dont get me wrong, but no where near great.
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Old 06-25-2015, 12:12 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vito Cruz View Post
Rey Mysterio in 2006 takes the cake for me. I LOVED Rey and had since his WCW days. I always wanted to see him somehow, someway become the World Champ.

Then when they finally went for it, it was awful because it was really nothing more than Eddie Guerrero's death being exploited to the highest degree.
Yeah, was fucked up. Let's all be completely honest here and just say it: WrestleMania 22 should've been Orton's time, not Rey's.
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Old 06-25-2015, 09:00 PM   #69
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Billy Kidman was wasted talent.
He was a waste alright.
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Old 06-25-2015, 09:55 PM   #70
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Kidman was a white meat babyface. Nothing more.
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Old 06-25-2015, 09:56 PM   #71
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Didn't Kidman beat him too? lol
Lol sure did, after Mike Awesome powerbombed Hogan threw a table
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Old 06-26-2015, 04:23 AM   #72
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I might be on the outskirts here, but I really dislike when a well established name goes from one company's main title scene to the next company's main title scene. There is a locker room full of people who have been working to get the second company's fans in the seats. I'm okay with someone getting into the upper-mid card, or even a non-title main event. I just don't like the idea of a locker room full of talent getting overshadowed to the equivalent of a truck full of money.

Note worthy exception to this- Flair's first WWF run.
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Old 06-26-2015, 06:08 AM   #73
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He was a waste alright.
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Kidman was a white meat babyface. Nothing more.
His Shooting Star Press was sloppy as fuck, too, from what I remember.
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Old 06-26-2015, 07:32 AM   #74
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He was a waste alright.
Had they gone with a storyline where he was related to Tom Cruise's then wife, he might have been a main-event player.
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Old 06-28-2015, 07:01 AM   #75
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I want to thank everybody for the suggestions in this thread, we got to read many of them on the podcast, which is now available to listen to at the following link:

http://squaredcirclegazette.podbean....donePushes.mp3

Taking your suggestions for guys pushed way above their limitations throughout wrestling history, we talk about world champions that shouldn't have been such as Jeff Jarrett, Justin Credible and Ron Simmons, WCW nepotism with Erik Watts and Dustin Rhodes, as well as the use and talents of such individuals as Brutus Beefcake, Billy Gunn, Abyss, Hardcore Holly, Eugene, The Big Show, Alberto Del Rio, Sheamus and many more that you felt were given way too much. A really fun and entertaining show this week, check it out and let us know what you think~!
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Old 06-28-2015, 10:25 AM   #76
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I knew Justin Credible would come up and I've never understood why people thought he sucked. He was the last heel that I can remember really hating. I wanted Dreamer to beat him so badly. I thought Credible was fantastic.
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Old 06-28-2015, 11:02 AM   #77
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Kevin Sullivan as Hogan's main enemy in 1994/95. Always thought he sucked. Hated the faces of fear and the dungeon of doom. So much garbage back then
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Old 06-28-2015, 01:05 PM   #78
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You should do an episode on favourite wrestling toys/memorabilia that you own or owned.
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Old 06-28-2015, 01:21 PM   #79
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That's a pretty cool idea, good bit of nostalgia could come from that. Only thought is that there might be a visual element to some of it? I suppose it would be more about the stories about the toys/memorabilia than anything, so that would be pretty damn fun.

As for Credible, I see what you mean because it's not like he was awful, and in some respects he's the victim of bad timing with ECW hitting the skids in 2000 and them rushing the belt on him in somewhat less than the best possible way. But at the same time there is something missing with Justin, and it's noticeable in retrospect that the reactions to him as champion aren't at the level of guys who held the title previously. Was excited to see him the WWF in 2001, but alas...
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Old 06-29-2015, 07:01 PM   #80
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Quote:
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Disagree. Booker T wasn't elevated enough to win the title at that point, they shouldn't have brought race into it though.
Not elevated enough?

Explain if you could.

Unless my memory is wrong Booker was pretty over at that point and even so him beating Triple H would have elevated him especially considering the monster roll Triple H was on.
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