MLB: Who might not make the HOF, but should? - Page 2

06-02-2004, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondermouse

Thing is, Cicotte had more playing time than Jackson.

Actually it was only like a year more, maybe 2. So it's about the same.

**Wondermouse** · 06-02-2004, 05:02 PM

Jackson didn't start playing regularly until about 3 years after Cicotte, and missed most of 1918.

That, and, pitchers threw more innings. So Eddie has over 3000 innings while Shoeless Joe has less than 6000 PA.

06-02-2004, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondermouse

Jackson didn't start playing regularly until about 3 years after Cicotte, and missed most of 1918.

That, and, pitchers threw more innings. So Eddie has over 3000 innings while Shoeless Joe has less than 6000 PA.

True, but he dominated every year he played for the 9 or 10 full years he played. He put up some of the greatest numbers ever seen and he's definately up there with Cobb, Wagner, Lajoie and Speaker during during that time as far as hitting goes. But this discussion can go on forever, so to each his own I guess.

**Wondermouse** · 06-02-2004, 05:35 PM

Oh, if he died or got injured or something, I'd probably say let him in. But the Black Sox specter hanging over his head... too much for me. He took the money. I don't care if he hit .356. It's 9 games, hit well in a couple and stink up the rest, there's your .356. It doesn't account defense, either.

So yeah.

**John la Rock** · 06-02-2004, 06:54 PM

JOE CARTER

**Wondermouse** · 06-02-2004, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John la Rock

JOE CARTER

Care to argue why? He was more or less an average player for a long time. McGriff, Dawson, Will Clark, Jim Thome, and Carlos Delgado get in way before him.

**John la Rock** · 06-02-2004, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondermouse

Care to argue why? He was more or less an average player for a long time. McGriff, Dawson, Will Clark, Jim Thome, and Carlos Delgado get in way before him.

He was consistent a 30 HR/100 RBI guy, he was a multi-time all star, and he hit the biggest homerun in Blue Jays history.

He may not be as good as the guys mentioned on your list but I still think he should get in. And he'll for sure be there before Thome and Delgado retire

**Wondermouse** · 06-03-2004, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John la Rock

He was consistent a 30 HR/100 RBI guy, he was a multi-time all star, and he hit the biggest homerun in Blue Jays history.

He may not be as good as the guys mentioned on your list but I still think he should get in. And he'll for sure be there before Thome and Delgado retire

Joe Carter's no longer eligible to be elected by the Hall of Fame, as he didn't even receive 5% of the vote from the election. He would have to be inducted by the Veteran's committe.

His highest MVP ranking was 3rd.

His career OBP was .306. In no way should anyone with a career OBP of .306 should not get into the Hall of Fame based on his offense.

Bobby Thomson hit a bigger home run, but he's not in the hall of fame. Carter's ball probably already is.

**BCWWF** · 06-02-2004, 06:56 PM

Bert Blylevin for sure, although it doesn't look too promising now :sad:

**The Outlaw** · 06-02-2004, 07:53 PM

Yeah Dawson.

**The Outlaw** · 06-02-2004, 07:56 PM

I actually did a report on this. Dawson, Sandberg, and Larkin were three of the names I discussed.

I also did a side section of guys that should make it stat wise but won't due to personal shit. Two main ones I talked about? Yep, Joe and Pete.

**Wondermouse** · 06-02-2004, 07:56 PM

Dick Allen also belongs in that list, though he was just the biggest asshole this side of Ty Cobb.

**The Miz** · 06-03-2004, 01:14 AM

Ty Cobb bet on baseball.

In 1919, Joe Jackson was kicked out of baseball because he knew about his teamates throwing the World Series. He played his hardest, however he was banned from baseball & the hall of fame because he knew about his teammates throwing it and didn't say anything. The Black Sox second baseman Eddie Collins also knew about the fix, but since no gamblers approached him, he got off the hook and went on to be in the hall.

06-03-2004, 04:02 PM

^^I know. I'd say about half pro ball players bet on baseball or were involved in some kind of gambling activity with the game back in the deadball era. It was a common thing. Hal Chase was notorious for betting on games. Pitchers probably threw games all the time. I have this DVD set called the "History of Baseball" which has 10 DVD's on all the era's. But in the deadball era DVD, they were saying how the fans might shout out to an outfielder, "20 if you drop it" and the player might drop the ball to collect the money from the fan. That's how it was back then.

I'm not sure Collins knew about the fix. He might of known something was up, but I don't think he was 100% sure. After seeing how his team was playing though, it was not far fectched to see that there was something going on. Almost all of Collon's teammates hated him, so I don't think they would of told him about it.

**DaveWadding** · 06-03-2004, 08:00 PM

let's discuss my boy Jimmy Thome

**PureHatred** · 06-03-2004, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveWadding

let's discuss my boy Jimmy Thome

You really don't want to do that. Bill James is pretty accurate, and his numbers put Thome's numbers solidly below HOF standards, esp for a 1B.

06-03-2004, 10:11 PM

Dawson was awesome but injuries killed his career. We never really got to see the Hawk at his best.

**Wondermouse** · 06-04-2004, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOUR Hero

Dawson was awesome but injuries killed his career. We never really got to see the Hawk at his best.

Montreal's turf didn't help. Hawk is someone I'd consider, and I don't think it'd be a crime to let him in. In any case, he's *THE* Borderline candidate.

**Wondermouse** · 06-04-2004, 02:35 AM

Thome's got an outside chance, I think, PH. He needs to keep up the good hitting for about 4, 5 more years and have a slow decline phase, but he can do it. He wouldn't be the worst player in, anyway.

06-03-2004, 04:02 PM	#14
Loose Cannon Guest Posts: n/a	^^I know. I'd say about half pro ball players bet on baseball or were involved in some kind of gambling activity with the game back in the deadball era. It was a common thing. Hal Chase was notorious for betting on games. Pitchers probably threw games all the time. I have this DVD set called the "History of Baseball" which has 10 DVD's on all the era's. But in the deadball era DVD, they were saying how the fans might shout out to an outfielder, "20 if you drop it" and the player might drop the ball to collect the money from the fan. That's how it was back then. I'm not sure Collins knew about the fix. He might of known something was up, but I don't think he was 100% sure. After seeing how his team was playing though, it was not far fectched to see that there was something going on. Almost all of Collon's teammates hated him, so I don't think they would of told him about it. Last edited by Loose Cannon; 06-03-2004 at 08:01 PM.

06-02-2004, 05:02 PM	#2
Wondermouse Cactus died for your sins Posts: 1,002	Jackson didn't start playing regularly until about 3 years after Cicotte, and missed most of 1918. That, and, pitchers threw more innings. So Eddie has over 3000 innings while Shoeless Joe has less than 6000 PA.

06-02-2004, 05:35 PM	#4
Wondermouse Cactus died for your sins Posts: 1,002	Oh, if he died or got injured or something, I'd probably say let him in. But the Black Sox specter hanging over his head... too much for me. He took the money. I don't care if he hit .356. It's 9 games, hit well in a couple and stink up the rest, there's your .356. It doesn't account defense, either. So yeah.

06-02-2004, 06:54 PM	#5
John la Rock That's how I roll!!! Posts: 4,437	JOE CARTER

06-02-2004, 06:56 PM	#9
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	Bert Blylevin for sure, although it doesn't look too promising now :sad:

06-02-2004, 07:53 PM	#10
The Outlaw Unofficial Legend Posts: 11,931	Yeah Dawson.

06-02-2004, 07:56 PM	#11
The Outlaw Unofficial Legend Posts: 11,931	I actually did a report on this. Dawson, Sandberg, and Larkin were three of the names I discussed. I also did a side section of guys that should make it stat wise but won't due to personal shit. Two main ones I talked about? Yep, Joe and Pete.

06-03-2004, 01:14 AM	#13
The Miz Clutch Poster Posts: 11,997	Ty Cobb bet on baseball. In 1919, Joe Jackson was kicked out of baseball because he knew about his teamates throwing the World Series. He played his hardest, however he was banned from baseball & the hall of fame because he knew about his teammates throwing it and didn't say anything. The Black Sox second baseman Eddie Collins also knew about the fix, but since no gamblers approached him, he got off the hook and went on to be in the hall.

06-03-2004, 08:00 PM	#15
DaveWadding LIMITLESS Posts: 32,276	let's discuss my boy Jimmy Thome

06-03-2004, 10:11 PM	#17
YOUR Hero Guest Posts: n/a	Dawson was awesome but injuries killed his career. We never really got to see the Hawk at his best.

06-04-2004, 02:35 AM	#19
Wondermouse Cactus died for your sins Posts: 1,002	Thome's got an outside chance, I think, PH. He needs to keep up the good hitting for about 4, 5 more years and have a slow decline phase, but he can do it. He wouldn't be the worst player in, anyway.