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Old 06-11-2004, 12:43 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepsi Man
Come to think of it, that's a very valid point. I never even took that into consideration when Austin left...
It's something that just clicked in this thread.
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Old 06-11-2004, 12:46 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepsi Man
Oh, just read this post...

Frankly, if Michaels coming on WWE Confidential in 2002 and blatantly admitting that he was in on the screwjob isn't enough proof, I don't know what is.
Not to mention how easily Shawn managed to get his way without creative control, making the point moot.
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Old 06-11-2004, 01:58 PM   #43
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Like Shaggy said this ended up being the best thing that could have ever happened for Vince. He was able to take what happened to Bret and use it to become the biggest heel in wrestling. Therefore he went on to have the mass feud with Austin and this turned things around and WWE began winning the ratings war and they never looked back meanwhile Bret was doing nothing in WCW. I'm not saying that I agree with what happpened, I'm just raising the point of how this benefited VInce much more than Bret. Vince was wrong for decieving Bret and making him think that they would go ahead with the plan that Bret had thought of. But Bret should have done the job.
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Old 06-11-2004, 03:36 PM   #44
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Bret SHOULD have dropped the title...

Vince SHOULD have told Bret to drop the title instead of lie...

In my estimation...they both fucked up...and while alot of people would like to blame Shawn, he did was Vince told him to do...kind of like what Bret should have done too

Now I am not saying Michaels is a saint and deserves to be praised for his actions, he could have told Bret the skinny on what was going down, but I think it was more an issue of Bret Hart and Vince McMahon battle an ego war...and they BOTH are to blame...
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Old 06-11-2004, 03:55 PM   #45
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The One is right. The whole thing is more of a conflict between Vince and Bret than between Bret and Shawn. I would also like to make the point that HBK just did what the man who made him a star asked him to do, Bret Hart did not. Like The One says Bret and Vince both f***ed up big time.
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Old 06-11-2004, 03:55 PM   #46
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Bret would have jobbed to anyone other than HBK cause of all the shit that happened at WM 13.

As Funky said, Bret should have K0'd Michaels as well
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Old 06-11-2004, 03:58 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The One
In my estimation...they both fucked up...and while alot of people would like to blame Shawn, he did was Vince told him to do...kind of like what Bret should have done too
Yeah, so all those times he didn't do his jkob, this time he conveniently does it, and he's not to blame.

yeah, I know you saaid he's not a saint, blah blah blah.
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Old 06-11-2004, 04:01 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by legendkiller
The One is right. I would also like to make the point that HBK just did what the man who made him a star asked him to do, Bret Hart did not.
WTF? You can't be serious here. Your making Michales sound like a complete innoccent in this whole thing. How many fk'n times had Michaels turned down what Vince asked him to do in the past? More then I can count on two hands probably. Michaels did what Vince asked him to because he was getting the title. Christ, if someone told you he'll give you a million dollars to backstab your business partner and you can deny everything and no one will ever know, would you? Michales was a di** to Bret Hart that whole year and was playing Vince like a pawn. Do you think Michaels would of jobbed that night if Vince asked him too? I'm willing to bet no.
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Old 06-11-2004, 04:04 PM   #49
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BANG

LC you get a rep for that

grr I must spread some rep around
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Old 06-11-2004, 04:18 PM   #50
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Yeah LC you are right Michaels probably would have refused to do the job. I don't think I worded what I said right. What I was just talking about that particular night and I am not denying thay HBK is one of the biggest egomaninc's in wrestling history and he has been known to refused to to the job in the past. I am not saying that Shawn is a completly innocent party in this whole scenario but what I am essentially saying is that Bret isn't the completly innocent party either. And to answer your question no I wouldn't stab someone in the back if I had the option.
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Old 06-11-2004, 05:06 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legendkiller
Yeah LC you are right Michaels probably would have refused to do the job. I don't think I worded what I said right. What I was just talking about that particular night and I am not denying thay HBK is one of the biggest egomaninc's in wrestling history and he has been known to refused to to the job in the past. I am not saying that Shawn is a completly innocent party in this whole scenario but what I am essentially saying is that Bret isn't the completly innocent party either. And to answer your question no I wouldn't stab someone in the back if I had the option.
No, Bret isn't totally innocent. He's guilty of saying "I don't want to lose tonight" when he was given the choice. Massive sin here. Then here comes the thing: Vince says, "Okay," and plans the go-ahead on Bret losing anyway. Bret was given legit authority, and Vince coneeded to him instead of pressing the issue.

DAMN YOUSE BRET!
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Old 06-11-2004, 06:26 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Kane Knight
No, Bret isn't totally innocent. He's guilty of saying "I don't want to lose tonight" when he was given the choice. Massive sin here. Then here comes the thing: Vince says, "Okay," and plans the go-ahead on Bret losing anyway. Bret was given legit authority, and Vince coneeded to him instead of pressing the issue.

DAMN YOUSE BRET!
Thank you.

And let's not forget that he was going to drop the title on RAW the next day.

Which means that (time for some big red font, guys):

BRET WAS WILLING TO DROP THE TITLE, JUST NOT ON A PPV!!!

Whereas Michaels wasn't going to drop it, period.
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Old 06-11-2004, 07:33 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Honestly, yes, it's the method by which it was enacted that most people have a problem with.
Thou hast hit it, Petruchio.
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Old 06-12-2004, 05:03 AM   #54
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I didn't read the whole thread but I just want to clear something up.Shawn has Jobbed to Brett Hart twice.The ladder match for the IC title that Bret had and the wwf world title match that Bret had.Shawn was the ic champ at that time.

I have a hard time feeling sorry for Bret because he was on top for how many years?.He was part of the most successful tag team in the wwf,He was on top for awhile as ic champ and had a number of years on top as a maineventer for the wwf title.Some seen to forget that Shawn was only maineventing for 2 years or so.It was Shawn's time.
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Old 06-12-2004, 06:38 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innovator
Survivor Series 92
Bret-Shawn also clashed in a Survivor Series match at Survivor Series '93, right? May not have been a one on one confrontation, but still.

I wonder if things would have turned out differently if the venue for Survivor Series '97 was somewhere in the US as opposed to Canada...
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