DISCUSSION - Is Randy Orton ready to be the World Champion of Raw? (other thoughts)

[Heyman]

NOTE: The following post contains Raw spoilers from July 26, 2004. Reader discretion is advised.

Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Edge, and Christian (Raw spoiler)

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.After watching Raw last night, it got me thinking. IF Benoit does lose the World title to Orton at Summerslam (and assuming that there are NO plans for Benoit to go back to Smackdown), then what happens with Benoit?


You know what I wouldn't mind seeing? A re-knewed rivalry with Chris Jericho.

Here's what I'd like to see.

Remember how on Raw last night, Jericho turned on Edge during the battle Royale? What if the WWE decided to play up on this?

During the next few weeks, Edge and Jericho try to put that behind them, but they can't. Ultimately - it leads to a flat out war between the two.....leading to a match at Summerslam.

At Summerslam (during the Edge/Jericho match), Christian makes his return.

Everyone thinks Christian is going after Jericho. Christian pretends to go after Jericho............but he nails Edge! Jericho gets the 1...2.....3. Jericho and Christian then beat the crap out of Edge after the match, and hug!


Jericho turns heel again, and re-unites with Christian!

Since either Triple H or Orton will be turning face fairly soon, a Jericho heel turn will keep things balanced.

Annnyways - Benoit drops the title to Orton. After unsuccessfully trying to get the title back, Benoit becomes involved with the whole Edge, Jericho, Christian scenerio.

Benoit feuds with Christian for a few months, while Jericho continues to feud with Edge (and tension exists between Jericho/Benoit, Edge/Christian). They even have tag matches (tag team title?) etc.,

After January, it changes. Benoit feuds with a heel Jericho, while Edge feuds with Christian.

Both of these matches take place at Wrestlemania:

Benoit vs. Jericho.
Edge vs. Christian.

[The CyNick]

I agree what you're saying about the fans and DX, aI just hate going backwards, but yeah they'd probably call them DX to get the pop and sell more merch. But IMO, if the NWO and Austin v McMahon has taught us anything nothing can compare with the original and it wont have the same impact.

In terms of what to do with Benoit after SS, I'd say they will do at least one more PPV match with the two of them, likely the next RAW PPV after SS. After that, I could see him doing something with Batista and put him over as well.

In terms of Jericho turning heel again, we've discussed this before, I would hate to see him go back with Christian (which would mean Trish as well) because of their past fued. Instead, I'd rather see Edge turn heel and join up with Christian again. Tomko could possibly stay on, and they would be a 4 person group with Trish. In terms of angles, then you can TEAM Benoit with Jericho and they can fued with Edge and Christian in tags and in singles matches. Also, they could keep Jericho and Benoit in the top mix by doing matches where you have Batista and Orton forming a loose alliance with E+C against the new DX (HHH and HBK) and Benoit and Jericho.

I like the idea of HBK/HHH/Benoit and Jericho all banding together to fight off the heels, because they have all had major fueds with each other. So they dont have to be all buddy buddy with one another, but they work together to fight off evil so to speak.

Yeah, I'm with CyNick on Edge turning heel and not Jericho. I mentioned that last night in the Raw Thread briefly. Edge is getting booed anyway by fans at times, so it would make sense to turn him heel. E & C together is better then Jericho and Christian I think. The only problem I have with reunions though, is I think they work better as babyfaces instead of heels. Which goes to the next point about DX.

Yeah, I wouldn't call them DX eathier as I hate rehashing stuff that's been rehashed already. But, it is a common name among the fans and it probably would sell a few tickets and what have you, but how long will that last is the question.

Here is another problem though. If "DX" is babyface, that would leave Orton and Evolution heel. Now this is what I have been hoping for the the longest time and I remember posting the "DX" vs Evolution angle a couple of times before. But, Orton is getting cheered now a lot by the fans. So you have to wonder if it would be a good idea to keep Orton heel. And if Orton actually wins the belt at Summerslam, how would that make Orton the heel and HHH the babyface. Because what I'm seeing is HHH gets pissed and jelous with Orton and tries to manipulate Orton into thinking he should give him (HHH) A Title shot.

I just don't see it another way where Orton is made out to be the jackass and not Hunter. Maybe someone (Heyman, CyNick) can set up a storyline so I can see it. But right now, I don't.

Then you have the thing with Flair. Would Flair stay with Orton or go with HHH. If HHH goes babyface and Orton stays heel, I could see Orton and Batista turning on Flair. But even the other way around, if Orton goes babyface, I still see Flair, and Batista this time too, turning on Orton and staying with Trips.

Well, at least they have a lot of options to work with here

[The CyNick]

With the Edge-Jericho deal they did on RAW, I could see a 3 way for the IC title at SS between Edge, Jerihco and Batista. Maybe its elimination, and you have Batista get DQ'd first, which leaves Edge vs Jericho. Have both guys down, and then Christian runs in, and looks around, both guys get up, and he cracks Jerihco on the head. Edge retains the title, and then looks up at Christian and they embrace. Which would be a guranteed huge pop in Toronto, they would definately have to work over the next few weeks to keep them heels, but I think it can be done if Jeirhco and say Benoit (I would use Benjamin as Jericho's partner at first while Benoit is fueding with Orton) fueded with them and were made to look strong.

In terms of the Evolution break up:

I would have Orton win, and then he starts to act like he's bigger than Flair and HHH. He could show up in a separate car from the other guys. I would love to see them have Evolution show up in a big limo one night without Orton. Then later in the show you have a helicopter land somewhere and out comes Orton with the belt and some ladies. That would make him look really pompass. He could also blow off some Evoltuion planning sessions, because he has "champions business to attend to". This would have to be small subtle things at first and build as time goes on.

One of the key things I would use to keep Orton a heel is the return of HBK. Sometime in Oct, after HBK has beat Kane, I would have HHH come out and say he respects HBK and because of Kane he never got the chance to shake his hand and bury the hatchet between them once and for all. HBK is skeptical but he agrees and they just shake and wlak awya form each other. In the later weeks we could see Orton saying to Batista, for example that he thinks HHH is getting soft.

Then say at SurvSer they do some type of Elimination match and Orton is left with Hunter against two other guys, Orton then decides forget it, and leaves HHH by himself. Hunter beats one of the two guys he's against, but then gets beat by the other guy. The night after SurvSer HHH is pissed and wants an explanation. Orton reveals he's sick of carrying Evolution and especially HHH and says HHH has proven over the past 8 months that he's gone soft. Orton could say while HHH has been getting beat every night, Orton was IC champ for 7 months and then when he did get screwed out of the IC title, he only took one shot to beat the same guy HHH couldn't beat for 8 months. HHH reminds Orton he's an 8 time World Champ and if Orton had any "guts" he'd become the 9 time World Champion right here tonight (pause for pop). Orton would balk at giving him a shot, saying he doesn't deserve it, and finish by saying "Evolution has passed you by". At that point I would have Orton, Batista and maybe Flair (if he stays with the group) beat on HHH, only to have HBK make the save before HHH gets completely destroyed.

That sets up an HBK-HHH reunion, which as Heyman said would likely get over pretty well, especially if they attach DX to it. That way you have strong faces that the fans can get behind, and you know the bookers will to (hard to imagine HHH and hBK beign buried). And in between SurvSer and Mania they can do Orton-HBK as a program to stregthen up Orton.

Okay, I can see this now. It's originally what I had in mind a few months ago. I think it was that spot on Raw, with Evolution in the lockeroom after Orton won the match, that had me thinking HHH would be the heel. They made it seem like HHH was a little jelous that Orton was kind of seen as the "main guy" for a few seconds.

But, I LOVE that helicopter spot that you talked about. That would be so kick ass. And yeah, those other things where Orton kind of puts himself in front of the group is the way to go with him staying the heel.

[Splaya]

I know it's already been done, but imagine if HHH was getting beat down and "Are you Ready" instead of HBK's music came on. Out run HBK and a returning X-pac. Imagine the pops there. It would be a huge markout moment for me.

[LK]

A bit of a flaw with Heyman's plan is that a lot of fans are currently booing Edge and the majority of fans love Jericho so this could possibly make fans cheer Christian. That is why I think Edge and Christian should re-unite. After the match the con-chair-to to Jericho and just like that one of the best teams in history are back together and giving people with the benefit of flash photography their five second pose.

[Heyman]

My reasoning for Jericho (not Edge) turning heel

The reason why I felt that Jericho should go heel (instead of Edge), is because it then puts him at odds with Chris Benoit.

Jericho and Benoit had an AWESOME feud going 4 years ago, and I think they could do the same.

If Edge stays face, he can then feud with Christian. These guys already have the history, the background, etc. Furthermore - the WWE never really tapped in to their potential feud.


E&C together would be pretty cool to though.

[The CyNick]

I'd like to see Jerihco and Benoit go another round. But if they were to team for a while again, it would make a turn mean a little more down the road, say this time next year.

[Mr. JL]

If they do go with a DX return.. it should only be short little stint. With Randy Orton leading Evolution to victory against DX.

Insert X-Pac along side with HHH & HBK... maybe Billy Gunn

Evolution stays the same with Orton, Batista & Flair

HHH & HBK play rock, paper, scissors for who will get the oppertunity to take out Randy Orton and his newly won World Heavyweight Championship. HBK wins this round of rock, paper, scissors and gets the shot. HHH feuds with Batista and Flair in tags with X-Pac.

Have Randy Orton win back-to-back-to-back PPV matches against HBK. This bring us to Survivor Series. HHH is pissed off that Shawn Michaels dropped the ball... yet again!

Then at Survivor Series, in an elimination style match have Batista & Flair both be beaten. This leaves the Champion against HHH, HBK & X-Pac. Orton beats X-Pac. Then he beats HHH after HBK accidently hits him with a sweet chin music. Then Randy Orton defeats HBk and once and for all finishes off DX!

Randy Orton and Evolution celebrate their victory. But not for long because now Flair has yet again another mid-life crisis and wants to see if he can make one last shot at a World Title. Orton gives it to him and defeats him. Then Orton has a mini feud against Batista and eventually comes out on top. Claiming Evolution is no more. Then Chris Benoit comes ut claiming he never did recieve his rematch. Those two feud off into the Rumble & No Way Out.

Meanwhile...
Degeneration X goes off on their own. Triple H takes a break from wrestling for awhile. HBK and Waltman have a little feud amongst one another.
HBK V. Lightning Kid (or back to 1-2-3 Kid cuz X-Pac has to go as long as the faction DX is gone)

HBK V. Lightning Kid would be a great little feud. With HBK playing the heel and Waltman playing the fresh face baby face.. similar to his 1-2-3 Kid days. If they do bring back Waltman they need to re-package him in this way if they ever want him to be of any value to the company.

Orton and Benoit trade title changes with one another. We need a few gimmick matches... Submission and perhaps a Iron Man Match. Orton eventually comes out on top at No Way Out.

Triple H resurfaces to challenge Randy Orton for the World Heavyweight Championship at Wrestle Mania 21. Because they never did have a one on one match during the Evolution V. DX feud because that was Shawn's job to take Orton out while Triple H handled the other. With the stips in this match being Title V. Career Match. Furthering the Legend Killer Gimmick as Randy Orton defeats Triple H and ends his career.

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by Heyman Other random thoughts -I think RVD will get re-packaged as a heel in the very near future. I personally wouldn't worry too much about him being on Velocity right now. -I don't think the Heindrich gimmick will work. This has 'Nathan Jones'/disaster written all over it. The WWE are going to well one too many times with the "indestructible monster' gimmick. -I'd like to see Luther Reins dress up in a military or 'police officer' uniform (p.s. not a kinky fetish of mine). I think this will fit his 'bodyguard' image a lot better. Basically - I wouldn't mind seeing Luther Reins be this generation's version of Bossman (corporate Bossman). -I'd like to see Shelton Benajmin act more "Ken Shamrock" like when he comes back. No more 'gay smiles and grins'. Personally? I think Benjamin would be AWESOME in a role where he simply beats the crap out of his opponents (heel or face) with his pure wrestling ability. Like Shamrock, I wouldn't mind seeing him 'snap', etc. -I heard about this new proposed gimmick for Nova (the Richard Simmons 'exercise' gimmick). Personally? - I don't think it's too bad of an idea. Seriously. Remember - it's all about getting guys over....or people that can potential elicit reactions. This 'exercise' gimmick should be able to achieve that. Remember - a lot of people on here were against the 'Eugene' gimmick (and we can also see how successful it has been thus far).

Feedback appreciated.

[Mr. JL]

Heidenreich: Well, he has Paul Heyman as his agent. He has that going for him... and thats alot. The only problem is Heyman's not booking him. If Heyman was booking him he'd get over.. some way some how Heyman always could get a guy over.

Luther Reigns: I've never really liked military garb on anyone except Sgt. Slaughter. I just think it wouldn't look to good for him. It would remindme too much of The Truth Commision. He does need something added to him though. He looks like a smaller Brock Lesnar just with considerably less talent.

Shelton Benjamin: I could see that Ken Shamrock like anger working for him pretty good. And his smirks are surely not going to take him too far. Now here is a guy that would really benefit from a lenthy feud with RVD. I can smell another "NEW F'n Show" when Benjamin shows us what he really has got to give the fans.

Nova: I'm sick of these characters because characters like these will affect his in-ring work. He'll end up doing some stupid exercise dance every 30 seconds of every match. But... I guess whatever gets him on my TV and plus... at least he's not another HOSS.

[Mr. JL]

If they do go with a DX return.. it should only be short little stint. With Randy Orton leading Evolution to victory against DX.

Insert X-Pac along side with HHH & HBK... maybe Billy Gunn

Evolution stays the same with Orton, Batista & Flair

HHH & HBK play rock, paper, scissors for who will get the oppertunity to take out Randy Orton and his newly won World Heavyweight Championship. HBK wins this round of rock, paper, scissors and gets the shot. HHH feuds with Batista and Flair in tags with X-Pac.

Have Randy Orton win back-to-back-to-back PPV matches against HBK. This bring us to Survivor Series. HHH is pissed off that Shawn Michaels dropped the ball... yet again!

Then at Survivor Series, in an elimination style match have Batista & Flair both be beaten. This leaves the Champion against HHH, HBK & X-Pac. Orton beats X-Pac. Then he beats HHH after HBK accidently hits him with a sweet chin music. Then Randy Orton defeats HBk and once and for all finishes off DX!

Randy Orton and Evolution celebrate their victory. But not for long because now Flair has yet again another mid-life crisis and wants to see if he can make one last shot at a World Title. Orton gives it to him and defeats him. Then Orton has a mini feud against Batista and eventually comes out on top. Claiming Evolution is no more. Then Chris Benoit comes ut claiming he never did recieve his rematch. Those two feud off into the Rumble & No Way Out.

Meanwhile...
Degeneration X goes off on their own. Triple H takes a break from wrestling for awhile. HBK and Waltman have a little feud amongst one another.
HBK V. Lightning Kid (or back to 1-2-3 Kid cuz X-Pac has to go as long as the faction DX is gone)

HBK V. Lightning Kid would be a great little feud. With HBK playing the heel and Waltman playing the fresh face baby face.. similar to his 1-2-3 Kid days. If they do bring back Waltman they need to re-package him in this way if they ever want him to be of any value to the company.

Orton and Benoit trade title changes with one another. We need a few gimmick matches... Submission and perhaps a Iron Man Match. Orton eventually comes out on top at No Way Out.

Triple H resurfaces to challenge Randy Orton for the World Heavyweight Championship at Wrestle Mania 21. Because they never did have a one on one match during the Evolution V. DX feud because that was Shawn's job to take Orton out while Triple H handled the other. With the stips in this match being Title V. Career Match. Furthering the Legend Killer Gimmick as Randy Orton defeats Triple H and ends his career.

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by Mr. JL Nova:[/U] I'm sick of these characters because characters like these will affect his in-ring work. He'll end up doing some stupid exercise dance every 30 seconds of every match. But... I guess whatever gets him on my TV and plus... at least he's not another HOSS.

True, but like you alluded to...........it will get him more TV time. As far as his in-ring work is concerned, I don't think it will have too much of an effect. People would still be able to appreciate his wrestling ability.

What Smackdown needs right now, are guys with attention-grabbing gimmicks. At a time when Smackdown is in its formative period, I think this is a great time to bring in newer guys with intriguing gimmicks.

Personally - I actually liked the Mordecai gimmick. Hopefully - the WWE will bring Mordecai back to Smackdown once he improves his in-ring work.