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Old 08-15-2004, 03:34 PM   #41
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I don't see why you feel Shaq is in a decline. You yourself say Kobe has 10-13 more years as a top player, insinuating no decline. Yet ou brush off Shaq as in a decline. You know, it doesn't add up.

I hate basketball, I don't like the NBA attitude, it turns me off. I feel I see ALL players very open minded and because of that, BCWWF, I feel you're logic is wrong.

Time will tell.
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Old 08-15-2004, 05:33 PM   #42
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He hasn't played a full season in like three years now and his averages have been declining in the past few years aswell, he is in his mid thirties now, so its not a shock that he isn't in his prime anymore.

If you look at who Kobe is in LA compared to Shaq and consider how bad their team is going to be in the next three years regardless of which one they chose, picking the younger and more marketable player is what makes sense. Shaq will win more in Miami then he would have in LA this year because LA is "rebuilding" now.
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Old 08-15-2004, 05:54 PM   #43
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Kobe more marketable? He's up on rape charges. His marketability is shot. No matter what the outcome of his trial, what sponsor would want him endorsing their product.
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Old 08-15-2004, 06:03 PM   #44
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Its going to take Kobe a few years before he is "marketable" again

I think eventually he will though, Look at Jason Kidd, he beats his life and I saw him on a sneaker commerical the other day.

Ray Lewis is on the cover of Madden after getting accused of Murder, I mean he was innocent but that still had an effect on how marketable he was.

Kobe will be marketable again, whereas Shaq really isnt. I don't think anybody is ever really going to buy some Starter Brand Shaq sneakers.

But I am not really sure why that matters, I would still rather have Shaq. T-Mac is marketable too, and basically thats the point here. Kobe = T-Mac without Shaq
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Old 08-15-2004, 06:05 PM   #45
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Kidd & Lewis charges didn't garner nearly as much media attention, most people who don't follow sports even know about them where as everyone knows about Kobe.
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Old 08-15-2004, 07:16 PM   #46
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on an unrelated note, Kidd's wife is hot.
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Old 08-15-2004, 07:35 PM   #47
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Kidd & Lewis charges didn't garner nearly as much media attention, most people who don't follow sports even know about them where as everyone knows about Kobe.
Thats true, Kidds really didnt recieve much for some reason. Even though he has been the only one proven guilty so far

Lewis had a little bit of attention, but not nearly as much as Kobe's.

But Kobe was more marketable then either of them to begin with so thats a factor too.
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Old 08-16-2004, 02:52 AM   #48
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Ray silenced his critics by taking out his frustration on opposing teams. He destroyed everyone in his path until he lifted the Lombardi trophy over his head, and nobody said a thing. Okay, so an interviewer said something, but the fact is, winning makes people forget these things. Also, sometimes, criminal charges = marketability.

Allen Iverson, Tupac, Romanowski, etc.

Not that I'm saying Kobe is better than Shaq. I think his marketability was as a clean-cut TEEN CHOICE AWARDS type of guy. Now he's a rapist. He will have to play up his new rep if he wants to be marketable again. i.e. a greasy lethario, who cheated on his hot wife with some mediocre blonde psycho via the poop chute. A real ladies' man.

As per Shaq "declining," the Lakers have been getting worse, because their role players have been aging, and even when they "upgrade," it's with aging role players. Payton had his worst season ever (imo due to being the 4th point in the triangle), and Malone missed an extended amount of playing time.

And you want to say Shaq hasn't played a full season? Didn't Kobe have shoulder and knee problems which led to his Lakers not winning the championship two seasons ago? And then he had recurring shoulder issues, and LEGAL issues which obviously distracted him and led to him not being 100% this season?

You blame it on Shaq? He was not his usual self, but he could still bring it. He was injured rightfully so, because he is abused in every game. People step on his toes and hit him as hard as they can to make him miss shots. What's Kobe's excuse? He was horny so he buggered a white chick. Great. He showed up way underweight and weak at the beginning of the season. He couldn't keep his head in the game, and ended up being a cancer to his team.

Maybe he will be better next year. But he's not exactly an iron man (missing 6 weeks after a minor collision with another dude, wtf), and he doesn't display the greatest judgment (hello, Shaq's party), so I'd worry more about him missing extended time than Shaq.

I mean, Shaq is already slow. Most injuries won't severely hamper his game. Kobe could get a sprained finger and have to sit out.

Shaq is betta.
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Old 08-16-2004, 03:37 AM   #49
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I will just say it simply, regardless if the Lakers kept Kobe or Shaq, I don't think they will be higher than a six seed for the next couple of years, and by the time the Lakers will have been able to rebuild Shaq will be pretty old, which is why they took Kobe IMO.

So I'm not saying that the Lakers are going to win with Kobe, because they aren't until they get a better forward than Lamar Odom. But if Kobe walked on free agency and Shaq stayed, I don't think the right free agents were out there to build a championship team around Shaq at this point, because the Lakers success has always been about their other players stepping up, Fisher, Horry, this year Rush for a game. By the time the Lakers have the personel to surround their star in, I don't know how well Shaq will be doing.

There are signs that Shaq was slowing down in the past two years, missed games and injuries, but he still came through and dominated as usual through the playoffs. What you have to remember though, is Shaq is 7'4" and weighs like 300 pounds, so as he gets older he going to be jamming toes and getting weak knees real fast.

I personally don't think Shaq will ever win a title in Miami, just because Detroit and Indiana still seem better, and even after that I think the Spurs and Timberwolves will easilly be the top teams in the league. Needless to say though, I think that Shaq will have more success than Kobe, pretty much a lock for a top four seed in the East and a better overall team. If Shaq was still in LA then I would think maybe they would be a seed or two higher in the playoffs, but they still wouldn't have the team it takes to beat the Spurs or Wolves. The only way Shaq would have won in the next three years on the Lakers would be if Kobe agreed to a sign and trade and they got the right players out of them, but obviously Kobe was going to walk if he wasn't the man.

So meh, thats just what I think was going through the Lakers owners minds when they realized that they fucked up and were losing one of the two, and I honestly am surprised that so many people think that I am crazy for thinking that. The only way I would really think differently is if I knew Shaq would have been surrounded by good players in the next few years, so if somebody can show me that then I'll concede. Amen.
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Old 08-16-2004, 04:46 AM   #50
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Karl Malone took a 20 million dollar pay cut to play with Shaq. He also made the prerequisite to him joining, that the Lakers get Payton. Like Shaq said, he was the real GM of the Lakers.

Notice how Malone wants to go to the Heat now?

Shaq would bring the talent. Shaq is a team player, a dominant player, and he makes his teammates better.

Kobe is a prima donna who wants the ball at all times. Nobody wants to be on his team.

I think Malone's pay cut to play with Shaq is proof that Shaq can build a good team around him.
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Old 08-16-2004, 11:43 AM   #51
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Who was out there that the Lakers could have even signed? And why didn't they just sign with the Heat? I know Horry and Fisher were going to try to sign with the Heat, but they aren't going to win you a championship.
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Old 08-17-2004, 12:04 AM   #52
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Horry and Fisher are better than no Horry or Fisher.

And like I already said, all Shaq needs are players who can get him the ball, and who can hit an open jumper. Fisher is that guy.

And Horry can hit an open J as well, even a non-open one... at the buzzer... in game 6.
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Old 08-19-2004, 01:25 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaBean
Horry and Fisher are better than no Horry or Fisher.

And like I already said, all Shaq needs are players who can get him the ball, and who can hit an open jumper. Fisher is that guy.

And Horry can hit an open J as well, even a non-open one... at the buzzer... in game 6.
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