So How Many Times has the WWE missed the "Boat" - Page 2

**Loose Cannon** · 11-28-2004, 12:13 PM

Dude, forget Kurt getting the belt. Just forget about Titles. Like I said before they lost a big market (the female audience) when Steph never went with Kurt. Okay, so Kurt beat Rock for the Belt. Big Deal. That wasn't the BIG angle they had going. HHH behind the scenes felt he didn't want his wife hanging around Kurt Angle that much and put a quick stop to it. The plan was for Kurt to go over HHH and Steph to go with Kurt, but it never happened.

**Pepsi Man** · 11-28-2004, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon

Dude, forget Kurt getting the belt. Just forget about Titles. Like I said before they lost a big market (the female audience) when Steph never went with Kurt. Okay, so Kurt beat Rock for the Belt. Big Deal. That wasn't the BIG angle they had going. HHH behind the scenes felt he didn't want his wife hanging around Kurt Angle that much and put a quick stop to it. The plan was for Kurt to go over HHH and Steph to go with Kurt, but it never happened.

So wait, you want to forget about titles, wins, losses, and angles EXCEPT that you apparently know that "the plan" was for Steph to "go with Kurt"? Give me a break. As I said though, if Triple H "behind the scenes" didn't want Kurt hanging around Steph (even though Kurt is a happily married man from what I understand), what was Stephanie doing as Kurt's manager? Oh wait, you don't remember that, so it doesn't count.

**Loose Cannon** · 11-28-2004, 12:24 PM

Dude, I'm just telling you what I've heard and read from newsletters, interviews from legit guys. Think about it, why would they tease Steph being attracted to Kurt if they weren't planning on going through with Steph going with Angle? Just think. Any idiot can see THE FANS WANTED STEPH TO GO WITH KURT and they didn't do it for some reason. And we all know who was that reason. That's all I'm sayng on this.

**Pepsi Man** · 11-28-2004, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon

Dude, I'm just telling you what I've heard and read from newsletters, interviews from legit guys. Think about it, why would they tease Steph being attracted to Kurt if they weren't planning on going through with Steph going with Angle? Just think. Any idiot can see THE FANS WANTED STEPH TO GO WITH KURT and they didn't do it for some reason. And we all know who was that reason. That's all I'm sayng on this.

So Steph being attracted to Kurt couldn't have been to hype up the Triple Threat match at SummerSlam, build up for Triple H vs. Kurt Angle at Unforgiven, OR for Triple H and Steph to swerve Kurt while they were constantly swerving everyone else in the company?

As far as the fans wanting Steph to go with Kurt, I don't think anything could be further from the truth, as the fans would always cheer when Triple H beat the hell out of Kurt after Kurt was with/around Steph. Granted, I'm not a 12-year-old writing "newsletters" without even actually watching the show, but that's my take on it.

**Loose Cannon** · 11-28-2004, 12:36 PM

http://oratory.rajahwwf.com/index.php?archive=1636

HERE, Look someone agrees with me here.

**Pepsi Man** · 11-28-2004, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon

http://oratory.rajahwwf.com/index.php?archive=1636

HERE, Look someone agrees with me here.

Even he acknowledges that they did indeed have a match. As far as sending Triple H "full babyface", as he requests, that would've been a waste if he was only going to turn heel again two months later anyway.

**Nark Order** · 11-28-2004, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon

So I popped one of my old Raw tapes in today while doing a report and it was the time of The Alliance, right after Austin joined them. I'm watching the segment where it was Austin appreciation night and everyone in the ring had their Austin T-shirts and everything right.

Then there's Taz. No Austin T-shirt on, didn't really seem like he cared about appreciating anyone. Austin goes right up to him and starts riding him and riding him and riding him and you just know the audience wanted Taz to snap and just hit a Tazz Plex. But no. A couple of weeks later or maybe it was later in the night, Taz helps Austin beat up on.... I think it was Angle.

Anyway, watching this made me go through all times they just totally missed the boat on guys and didn't push them at the right moment, especially in the last 5 years.

So, if you guys can think of times when guys in the WWE were really hot and the crowd was totally behind them, but the WWE did nothing with them, list them here and talk about it a little. I could list off about 10 times in the last 7 years, but I don't feel like writing a column

So Discuss

I was at that show in the very front row!!

**Evolution** · 11-28-2004, 02:59 PM

Didn't they do something else with Austin/Tazz (the birth of "What?") when Tazz was disrespecting Austin, Austin started beating on Tazz and The Alliance just walked off disgusted with Austin?

Another missed boat was nWo. They came into the WWF with all the momentum in the world, then at their 1st PPV they lose both matches (Hall to Austin, Hogan to Rock).

If nWo really was this poison, wouldn't the logical thing be nWo victories? Fair enough, with Hogan's face pops, they wanted him out, so what they did wit Hogan/Rock was good.

But Hall and Nash? Now, I'm a HUGE Austin fan, maybe a Mark to some extent, but Hall should have beaten Austin at WMX8. I mean, Nash was interfering, so if Austin lost, there would have been controversy so Austin had claim to a rematch.

Then nWo would still be beating on people and seeming like a threat, I mean, beating Austin isn't easy. Then anytime Austin looked like he was FINALLY going to beat Hall or whoever, they go all WCW and throw someone out (X-Pac, Big Show), have Them cost Austin the match, new nWo member and MORE controversy.

And at the end of nWo as it was (this is a part that no-one seems to remember) Nash and Michaels issued an ultimatum to Triple H. " Leave SmackDown, come to RAW and join nWo, or there'll be Hell to pay". Next week, Vince announces he has killed the nWo because they couldn't get the job done that he hired them for. Later, Triple H is on RAW. Would he have joined nWo or feuded with them?

A golden missed opportunity. And the legacy of possibly WCW's greatest product killed in the process. Hell, that might be the only reason they were brought in in the first place.

**Mr. Nerfect** · 11-28-2004, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gouda

Nah that was okay. Don't want them reuniting.

Where they dropped the ball was not having Xtian get sweet revenge on Edge.

It will come. I have a feeling Edge will go soaring over the top-rope in that Battle Royal on RAW at least partly because of Christian.

**Mr. Nerfect** · 11-28-2004, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon

Dude, I'm just telling you what I've heard and read from newsletters, interviews from legit guys. Think about it, why would they tease Steph being attracted to Kurt if they weren't planning on going through with Steph going with Angle? Just think. Any idiot can see THE FANS WANTED STEPH TO GO WITH KURT and they didn't do it for some reason. And we all know who was that reason. That's all I'm sayng on this.

I don't have a perfect memory of the whole scenario, but I am 80% sure the fans were behind Triple H during the ordeal. They saw Stephanie as a slut and Angle as low-life for trying to have an affair with her.

Besides the whole love triangle made for a great angle, and really didn't need the title. If I was writing the storylines, I'd have had Angle win the title in the Triple Threat Match at Summerslam, then have rumours come up saying Angle only used Steph to cause Triple H to go off his game, and to allow Angle his first title win. You then have Angle vs. The Rock at Unforgiven, followed by Angle vs. Triple H at No Mercy.

Anyway, I don't know if the plan was to put Angle and Steph together, rather than just create a good storyline and give two heels a reason to feud.

**Heyman** · 11-28-2004, 04:02 PM

Great thread.

Here is my opinions (in no particular order)

1) Chris Jericho circa 2001 (he should have gone up against Austin at Summerslam that year.....not Angle. Angle was too newly turned as a face to go up against a "popular" heel in Austin. Jericho had the crowd. Since Austin injured Jericho's friend Benoit at KOTR, the storyline was there as well).

2) RVD circa 2002: RVD was WAY over. Even a push in 2001 would've been great (although I semi-understand the WWE's reasoning in wanting people to "pay their dues" within the WWE). RVD should have garnered some more "significant" victories, so that he could be taken seriously as a legitimate main-event threat for the future.

3) Kurt Angle circa 2001: After 9/11, the WWE decided to make Angle's character into a joke. The WWE bailed on Angle's face turn (which was developing quite nicely). Bad bad move.

Blame the WWE for completely rushing Angle's face turn that year, and then bailing out when things didn't IMMEDIATELY go their way.

4) Brock Lesnar circa 2002: Lesnar should have been the undisputed champion that appeared on BOTH shows. He should have stayed HEEL (despite if a lot of fans CHEERED him). His first loss should have come at WRESTLEMANIA 19 (perhaps to RVD?).

5) Randy Orton circa August 2004: The WWE should not have turned Orton face the day after Summerslam (especially on that very same night where he cut such an excellent heel promo). Furthermore - the WWE shouldn't have blown their WM MAIN-EVENT at Unforgiven.

6) Triple H circa 2002: I still believe to this day that Triple H could have been HUGE as a face. Instead - the WWE shoved him down our throats, and also involved Stephanie too much (initially when Steph was with Triple H, she contributed to tearing the fans away from Hunter). Triple H's brief feud with the McMahon's was also done poorly.

7) Kane circa 2003: Kane was WAY over when he turned heel (and unmasked), but a 3 month idiotic feud with Shane McMahon soon followed. Kane's re-juvinated character was pissed away.

8) Matt Hardy circa 2003: When Matt Hardy first defected to RAW, he was WAY over as a face. Instead - the WWE (idiotically) turned Matt against Lita and wrecked his heat (and also confused the fans). Matt then became a jobber.

Later on (when the fans didn't care nearly as much about "Mattitude"), they re-united him back with Lita.....and were back to square one.

9) Chris Jericho circa 2004: Jericho was doing tremendous as a heel. Even though he was a mid-card wrestler, he was still getting solid victories over the likes of HBK, Kevin Nash, etc. (and still looked credible).

Since Jericho's face turn however, the WWE have made Jericho look VERY "average". Jericho still has credibility due to his immense popularity, but the guy was a TREMENDOUS heel.

10) D'Lo Brown: A guy who could have EASILY been the next main-stream superstar. D'Lo was WAY over with the fans (face and heel). WWE's mishandling of D'Lo Brown was arguably their biggest act of idiocy of all-time.

11) Steve Austin circa 2001: No way the WWE should have turned Austin "face" at Survivor Series 2001. Austin should have kept his "heeldom" until Wrestlemania-18........where he could've then put over the "top face" of the company in the main-event.

12) Big Show circa 1999: The WWE had a great thing going with Big Show, but then decided to make him Taker's bitch. Ever since that time - Big Show has never really been a "larger than life" type character.

**Gouda** · 11-28-2004, 04:35 PM

They missed the boat by taking the title off of Eddie. He could have been huge.

They also took the title off Bentoit too early.

**The CyNick** · 11-28-2004, 05:08 PM

Here's the deal ont he Kurt-HHH deal in 2000:

If you were following ratings at that time (which I was) you would know that the whole love triangle thing was doing big numbers. They culminated with that bit where Angle planted a kiss on Steph just before a PPV match. But rather than going with the logical story of Angle stealing Steph and having HHH turn baby, they totally squashed the angle.

Angle and HHH ahd a one on one match, and the big climax to the program was HHH telling Steph wto choose and she kicked Angle and HHH got the win. Angle did go on to win the title the next month, but the message had been sent that HHH was bigger and better than Angle, and Angle was just a mid crad guys holding the World Title. Angle did get a win over HHH at the Rumble in 2001, but it was one of those deals where Angle didn't really do anything to beat HHH, it was outside interference that won the match.

But the main point is that they "missed the boat" on putting Kurt with Steph, which was the only logical finish to that program. I dont know that HHH was worried about people talking about Kurt and Steph being together al the time, but I do know he didn't want to be a face and more importantly didn't want to be booked to look liek Angle got one over on him.

To prove the point they basically repeated the same mistake in 2002 when they could have used Hunter's injury to get a story where Jericho was banging Steph on the side while Hunter was recovering. Then Jericho could have taken credit for putting Hunter on the sidelines. They dropped the ball on both accounts and went with the much more thrilling dog poop angle.

As for other missed opportunities:

1) Jerihco in 1999. When Jericho jumped he had the big entrance and it was clear he was over enough to be on the same level as Rock and Austin. But another guy with long blond hair was on pace to get a World Title push at the same time, so coincedentally Jerihco ended up in programs with X-Pac and Road Dogg.....yeah Road Dogg. That was a missed opportunity to make Jericho a true main event player.

2) Angle in 2000 (see above section)

3) Benoit coming in in 2000 as WCW champ. They had Benoit coming off WCW TV and the World Champ, instead of making Benoit on par with the then champion HHH, they had him JOB right away and put him in the mid card spot he still holds down today. Surely they could have at least got on major PPV match out of the WCW champion facing the WWF Champion.

4) Turning HHH face after WM 17. They needed a strong babyface to make up for Rock leaving and Austin's heel turn. Instead of building off a strong match Austina nd HHH had in February of that year (which HHH won) they kept HHH heel, and the fans had nobody to get behind.

5) Invasion (do I need to expand on this one?)

6) Re-turning Austin in July '01. Austin was a failure at the box office as a heel, with the Invasion they had a chance to undo their mistake, but not only did they no undo the mistake they swerved the fans with an Austin face turn. Bad move, and I'm sure that pissed off more than a few fans.

7) Tazz during the same time. He could have also been pushed a lot better right formt he start, but again like RVD, the fans wanted to get behind someone, and he could have been major if only they let him choke out Austin.

8) RVD also during the summer of '01. Lots of teases that went nowhere.

9) Angle as a badass babyface after 9/11. Seemed like a logical thing to do, but Angle is comedy, and that why he cant draw.

10) Lesnar as a long term dominant champion. Again, this had a lot to dow ith Hunter. Hunter didn't want to be the IC champ, so they created a new World Title and it made Lesnar look weaker. To make matters worse, they had Lesnar drop the title after only 3 months.

11) RVD in 2002 after HHH was handed the World Title. Last chance for RVD to be anything more than a mid carder.

12) Eric Bischoff -- Why did he have to hug Vince?

13) Goldberg -- Beginning to end

14) Benoit and Eddie never getting the chance to actually carry the company.

**Pepsi Man** · 11-28-2004, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The CyNick

Here's the deal ont he Kurt-HHH deal in 2000:

If you were following ratings at that time (which I was) you would know that the whole love triangle thing was doing big numbers. They culminated with that bit where Angle planted a kiss on Steph just before a PPV match. But rather than going with the logical story of Angle stealing Steph and having HHH turn baby, they totally squashed the angle.

Angle and HHH ahd a one on one match, and the big climax to the program was HHH telling Steph wto choose and she kicked Angle and HHH got the win. Angle did go on to win the title the next month, but the message had been sent that HHH was bigger and better than Angle, and Angle was just a mid crad guys holding the World Title. Angle did get a win over HHH at the Rumble in 2001, but it was one of those deals where Angle didn't really do anything to beat HHH, it was outside interference that won the match.

But the main point is that they "missed the boat" on putting Kurt with Steph, which was the only logical finish to that program. I dont know that HHH was worried about people talking about Kurt and Steph being together al the time, but I do know he didn't want to be a face and more importantly didn't want to be booked to look liek Angle got one over on him.

To prove the point they basically repeated the same mistake in 2002 when they could have used Hunter's injury to get a story where Jericho was banging Steph on the side while Hunter was recovering. Then Jericho could have taken credit for putting Hunter on the sidelines. They dropped the ball on both accounts and went with the much more thrilling dog poop angle.

As for other missed opportunities:

1) Jerihco in 1999. When Jericho jumped he had the big entrance and it was clear he was over enough to be on the same level as Rock and Austin. But another guy with long blond hair was on pace to get a World Title push at the same time, so coincedentally Jerihco ended up in programs with X-Pac and Road Dogg.....yeah Road Dogg. That was a missed opportunity to make Jericho a true main event player.

2) Angle in 2000 (see above section)

3) Benoit coming in in 2000 as WCW champ. They had Benoit coming off WCW TV and the World Champ, instead of making Benoit on par with the then champion HHH, they had him JOB right away and put him in the mid card spot he still holds down today. Surely they could have at least got on major PPV match out of the WCW champion facing the WWF Champion.

4) Turning HHH face after WM 17. They needed a strong babyface to make up for Rock leaving and Austin's heel turn. Instead of building off a strong match Austina nd HHH had in February of that year (which HHH won) they kept HHH heel, and the fans had nobody to get behind.

5) Invasion (do I need to expand on this one?)

6) Re-turning Austin in July '01. Austin was a failure at the box office as a heel, with the Invasion they had a chance to undo their mistake, but not only did they no undo the mistake they swerved the fans with an Austin face turn. Bad move, and I'm sure that pissed off more than a few fans.

7) Tazz during the same time. He could have also been pushed a lot better right formt he start, but again like RVD, the fans wanted to get behind someone, and he could have been major if only they let him choke out Austin.

8) RVD also during the summer of '01. Lots of teases that went nowhere.

9) Angle as a badass babyface after 9/11. Seemed like a logical thing to do, but Angle is comedy, and that why he cant draw.

10) Lesnar as a long term dominant champion. Again, this had a lot to dow ith Hunter. Hunter didn't want to be the IC champ, so they created a new World Title and it made Lesnar look weaker. To make matters worse, they had Lesnar drop the title after only 3 months.

11) RVD in 2002 after HHH was handed the World Title. Last chance for RVD to be anything more than a mid carder.

12) Eric Bischoff -- Why did he have to hug Vince?

13) Goldberg -- Beginning to end

14) Benoit and Eddie never getting the chance to actually carry the company.

It's the only "logical finish" because it's what you were expecting. I say that of the many, many unfinished stories the WWF has been famous for in its time, this does not fall in that category. Additionally, the logic was fine.

As for the ratings, I'm sure you work in the television industry.

Ratings are overrated anyway, as they only take the results from people that are involved with them.

**Mr. JL** · 11-28-2004, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The One

I have just three words for you all...

Rob---Van---Dam!

Out of anybody in the past 5 years... they fucked up with RVD the most.

**Mr. JL** · 11-28-2004, 05:21 PM

Jeff Hardy in 2001 when he defeated Triple H for the IC Title comes to mind. This was just before Jeff lost his passion and I'd like to beleive it is where it started. He won the IC Title from Triple H and then jobs it back 6 days later and thrown into the cruiserweight division. Not too mention people did not even see Jeff get pinned to lose the title. They were too busy showing Lita getting chased by Austin instead of focusing in on the ring.

**Loose Cannon** · 11-28-2004, 05:35 PM

LOL PepsiMan, shut up. You're like the only person I know who says that finish was logical. AND CYNICK Thankyou once again

**Pepsi Man** · 11-28-2004, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon

LOL PepsiMan, shut up. You're like the only person I know who says that finish was logical. AND CYNICK Thankyou once again

Even Alienoid who posted right in this thread, while not completely agreeing with the way the storyline panned out, agrees that having Steph "go with" Angle was not necessarily the way to end that angle.

I'm sorry if we can't all have our opinions force-fed to us by "reports" written by twelve year olds.

**Heyman** · 11-28-2004, 07:30 PM

LOL!

Pepsi Man is one of my favorite tpww posters of all-time.

**RemyRed** · 11-28-2004, 07:47 PM

Booker T - 2001

The night after King Of The Ring (when he put Austin through the table) he was getting huge pops. He could've been a top face in WWE at the time (or after WM19 if he wouldn't have jobbed) but Vince's vendetta against the WCW/ECW wrestlers led him to start burying everyone who was in the Alliance after that angle was finished.

**Pepsi Man** · 11-28-2004, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heyman

LOL!

Pepsi Man is one of my favorite tpww posters of all-time.

That almost sounds like a Mattitude fact or something.

**Heyman** · 11-28-2004, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepsi Man

That almost sounds like a Mattitude fact or something.

I dunno.

You just remind me of some retarded kid that I used to know in high school. He was the funniest "mentally challenged" kid that I've ever seen (you remind me of him because you guys "flip out" in similar ways).

Just as in your case, everyone used to get a (HUGE) laugh at his expense. At the same time however, people knew deep down that the environment just would not be the same without him.

**Pepsi Man** · 11-28-2004, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heyman

I dunno.

You just remind me of some retarded kid that I used to know in high school. He was the funniest "mentally challenged" kid that I've ever seen (you remind me of him because you guys "flip out" in similar ways).

Just as in your case, everyone used to get a (HUGE) laugh at his expense. At the same time however, people knew deep down that the environment just would not be the same without him.

Now that's just like a segment out of a movie. I can hear the "awwwwwwwwww"s now along with that cheesy music they invariably throw in.

**BigDaddyCool** · 11-28-2004, 08:56 PM

Who fuckin' cares if the missed the boat, it is the past and there is no changing it now, plus it is fake. There is nothing worse that people bitching and complaining about how some soap opera made for 18 year old boys messed up 3 years ago. While yes WWE dropped the ball many times, but you keep watch, or somebody does. So lets move into the now, and talk about how they should change things up instead of how the should have changed things up, it is way more productive.

**Fignuts** · 11-28-2004, 09:01 PM

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to BigDaddyCool again.

**Loose Cannon** · 11-28-2004, 09:03 PM

yea, sorry for discussing the past on a message board. We've never done that before

**MVP** · 11-28-2004, 09:08 PM

This thread has brought back some good memories. :cry:

**Pepsi Man** · 11-28-2004, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon

yea, sorry for discussing the past on a message board. We've never done that before

We don't see eye-to-eye on much apparently, but I'll agree with you there.

**Fignuts** · 11-28-2004, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by Loose Cannon

Quote:

yea, sorry for discussing the past on a message board. We've never done that before

That's his point though. We all know WWE has screwed up in the past. There have been tons of threads like this, and it's always the same arguments over and over again. It gets redundant after a while.

**Loose Cannon** · 11-28-2004, 09:13 PM

hey look at this BDC THREAD http://www.tpww.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21880

HEY CHECK OUT POINT #5

WHY IS BDC DISCUSSING THE PAST HERE?

**Loose Cannon** · 11-28-2004, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fignuts

Originally posted by Loose Cannon

That's his point though. We all know WWE has screwed up in the past. There have been tons of threads like this, and it's always the same arguments over and over again. It gets redundant after a while.

Yeah great. Actually, other then that BDC thread I just posted, there hasn't been tons of threads like this.

**Pepsi Man** · 11-28-2004, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon

hey look at this BDC THREAD http://www.tpww.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21880

HEY CHECK OUT POINT #5

WHY IS BDC DISCUSSING THE PAST HERE?

To be fair, sure he might mention the past, but...he's basically bitching about the present.
Wait, my mistake. The topic title itself was

Quote:

RVD, Did WWE drop the ball, or does he just suck?

Did is in fact past tense.

**big_bluto** · 11-29-2004, 07:11 AM

What about Matt Morgan, Mordecai & Sean O'Haire?

Morgan got brought up from OVW and got stuck straight into Survivor Series, then got promptly sent back again.
Mordecai - same deal.

Sean O'haire - got contracted and buried for what? 2 years? Then released!

All the Tough Enough dudes - not one of them has been allowed to do anything decent in the time they've been given. I think every one of them has been lower/mid card jobbers.

Jamie Noble - The guy never put a bad match on in all the time he was at WWE, and they bulleted him. Assholes!

Hardcore Holly - Why haven't they sacked this guy? He's a knob!

Tag Teams like Kidman/London - whole storyline was a botch-fest.

My personal gripe - Matt Hardy - great talent, and they've made him job to pretty much everyone, with the possible exception of Kane, who's been made to job to EVERYONE. Matt Hardy has it all, and could be a HUGE draw for them, but as usual....his-handled!

There are hundreds of others!

**John la Rock** · 11-29-2004, 01:23 PM

OWEN HART - POST SURVIVOR SERIES 1997

They should have definetly of had a HUGE rivalry between Owen and HBK over the screw-job and the WWF Championship instead of a Raw match that ended in DQ. It should have been HBK vs Owen at the Rumble for the belt instead of HBK/Taker.

**John la Rock** · 11-29-2004, 01:25 PM

CHRIS JERICHO - This past summer's RAW in Winnipeg

Jericho won the Musical Chairs which was BRILLIANT but instead of having him face Chris Benoit (in a guaranteed 5 star match) for the World Title he recieves an Intercontinental Title Match against Randy Orton.

STUPID WWE

**Innovator** · 11-29-2004, 01:35 PM

Another Taz point:

In 2000 after he won the ECW Title from Mike Awesome, he came out on RAW wearing the ECW Title. Then on Smackdown he faced Triple H. I know Vince alluded to this in the ECW DVD, there is no way in hell Taz should have jobbed to H there. Say a double countout or something, or make Dreamer's interference make it a no contest. The ball was there in Taz's court, then taken away. Don't even get me started on the Lawler feud.

11-28-2004, 12:13 PM	#41
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	Dude, forget Kurt getting the belt. Just forget about Titles. Like I said before they lost a big market (the female audience) when Steph never went with Kurt. Okay, so Kurt beat Rock for the Belt. Big Deal. That wasn't the BIG angle they had going. HHH behind the scenes felt he didn't want his wife hanging around Kurt Angle that much and put a quick stop to it. The plan was for Kurt to go over HHH and Steph to go with Kurt, but it never happened.

11-28-2004, 12:24 PM	#43
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	Dude, I'm just telling you what I've heard and read from newsletters, interviews from legit guys. Think about it, why would they tease Steph being attracted to Kurt if they weren't planning on going through with Steph going with Angle? Just think. Any idiot can see THE FANS WANTED STEPH TO GO WITH KURT and they didn't do it for some reason. And we all know who was that reason. That's all I'm sayng on this.

11-28-2004, 12:36 PM	#45
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	http://oratory.rajahwwf.com/index.php?archive=1636 HERE, Look someone agrees with me here.

11-28-2004, 02:59 PM	#48
Evolution I Just Passed You By! Posts: 1,107	Didn't they do something else with Austin/Tazz (the birth of "What?") when Tazz was disrespecting Austin, Austin started beating on Tazz and The Alliance just walked off disgusted with Austin? Another missed boat was nWo. They came into the WWF with all the momentum in the world, then at their 1st PPV they lose both matches (Hall to Austin, Hogan to Rock). If nWo really was this poison, wouldn't the logical thing be nWo victories? Fair enough, with Hogan's face pops, they wanted him out, so what they did wit Hogan/Rock was good. But Hall and Nash? Now, I'm a HUGE Austin fan, maybe a Mark to some extent, but Hall should have beaten Austin at WMX8. I mean, Nash was interfering, so if Austin lost, there would have been controversy so Austin had claim to a rematch. Then nWo would still be beating on people and seeming like a threat, I mean, beating Austin isn't easy. Then anytime Austin looked like he was FINALLY going to beat Hall or whoever, they go all WCW and throw someone out (X-Pac, Big Show), have Them cost Austin the match, new nWo member and MORE controversy. And at the end of nWo as it was (this is a part that no-one seems to remember) Nash and Michaels issued an ultimatum to Triple H. " Leave SmackDown, come to RAW and join nWo, or there'll be Hell to pay". Next week, Vince announces he has killed the nWo because they couldn't get the job done that he hired them for. Later, Triple H is on RAW. Would he have joined nWo or feuded with them? A golden missed opportunity. And the legacy of possibly WCW's greatest product killed in the process. Hell, that might be the only reason they were brought in in the first place.

11-28-2004, 04:02 PM	#51
Heyman Father of Hinduship Posts: 21,083	Great thread. Here is my opinions (in no particular order) 1) Chris Jericho circa 2001 (he should have gone up against Austin at Summerslam that year.....not Angle. Angle was too newly turned as a face to go up against a "popular" heel in Austin. Jericho had the crowd. Since Austin injured Jericho's friend Benoit at KOTR, the storyline was there as well). 2) RVD circa 2002: RVD was WAY over. Even a push in 2001 would've been great (although I semi-understand the WWE's reasoning in wanting people to "pay their dues" within the WWE). RVD should have garnered some more "significant" victories, so that he could be taken seriously as a legitimate main-event threat for the future. 3) Kurt Angle circa 2001: After 9/11, the WWE decided to make Angle's character into a joke. The WWE bailed on Angle's face turn (which was developing quite nicely). Bad bad move. Blame the WWE for completely rushing Angle's face turn that year, and then bailing out when things didn't IMMEDIATELY go their way. 4) Brock Lesnar circa 2002: Lesnar should have been the undisputed champion that appeared on BOTH shows. He should have stayed HEEL (despite if a lot of fans CHEERED him). His first loss should have come at WRESTLEMANIA 19 (perhaps to RVD?). 5) Randy Orton circa August 2004: The WWE should not have turned Orton face the day after Summerslam (especially on that very same night where he cut such an excellent heel promo). Furthermore - the WWE shouldn't have blown their WM MAIN-EVENT at Unforgiven. 6) Triple H circa 2002: I still believe to this day that Triple H could have been HUGE as a face. Instead - the WWE shoved him down our throats, and also involved Stephanie too much (initially when Steph was with Triple H, she contributed to tearing the fans away from Hunter). Triple H's brief feud with the McMahon's was also done poorly. 7) Kane circa 2003: Kane was WAY over when he turned heel (and unmasked), but a 3 month idiotic feud with Shane McMahon soon followed. Kane's re-juvinated character was pissed away. 8) Matt Hardy circa 2003: When Matt Hardy first defected to RAW, he was WAY over as a face. Instead - the WWE (idiotically) turned Matt against Lita and wrecked his heat (and also confused the fans). Matt then became a jobber. Later on (when the fans didn't care nearly as much about "Mattitude"), they re-united him back with Lita.....and were back to square one. 9) Chris Jericho circa 2004: Jericho was doing tremendous as a heel. Even though he was a mid-card wrestler, he was still getting solid victories over the likes of HBK, Kevin Nash, etc. (and still looked credible). Since Jericho's face turn however, the WWE have made Jericho look VERY "average". Jericho still has credibility due to his immense popularity, but the guy was a TREMENDOUS heel. 10) D'Lo Brown: A guy who could have EASILY been the next main-stream superstar. D'Lo was WAY over with the fans (face and heel). WWE's mishandling of D'Lo Brown was arguably their biggest act of idiocy of all-time. 11) Steve Austin circa 2001: No way the WWE should have turned Austin "face" at Survivor Series 2001. Austin should have kept his "heeldom" until Wrestlemania-18........where he could've then put over the "top face" of the company in the main-event. 12) Big Show circa 1999: The WWE had a great thing going with Big Show, but then decided to make him Taker's bitch. Ever since that time - Big Show has never really been a "larger than life" type character.

11-28-2004, 04:35 PM	#52
Gouda It's Hammer Time Posts: 2,207	They missed the boat by taking the title off of Eddie. He could have been huge. They also took the title off Bentoit too early.

11-28-2004, 05:08 PM	#53
The CyNick Make the IWC Great Again Posts: 8,922	Here's the deal ont he Kurt-HHH deal in 2000: If you were following ratings at that time (which I was) you would know that the whole love triangle thing was doing big numbers. They culminated with that bit where Angle planted a kiss on Steph just before a PPV match. But rather than going with the logical story of Angle stealing Steph and having HHH turn baby, they totally squashed the angle. Angle and HHH ahd a one on one match, and the big climax to the program was HHH telling Steph wto choose and she kicked Angle and HHH got the win. Angle did go on to win the title the next month, but the message had been sent that HHH was bigger and better than Angle, and Angle was just a mid crad guys holding the World Title. Angle did get a win over HHH at the Rumble in 2001, but it was one of those deals where Angle didn't really do anything to beat HHH, it was outside interference that won the match. But the main point is that they "missed the boat" on putting Kurt with Steph, which was the only logical finish to that program. I dont know that HHH was worried about people talking about Kurt and Steph being together al the time, but I do know he didn't want to be a face and more importantly didn't want to be booked to look liek Angle got one over on him. To prove the point they basically repeated the same mistake in 2002 when they could have used Hunter's injury to get a story where Jericho was banging Steph on the side while Hunter was recovering. Then Jericho could have taken credit for putting Hunter on the sidelines. They dropped the ball on both accounts and went with the much more thrilling dog poop angle. As for other missed opportunities: 1) Jerihco in 1999. When Jericho jumped he had the big entrance and it was clear he was over enough to be on the same level as Rock and Austin. But another guy with long blond hair was on pace to get a World Title push at the same time, so coincedentally Jerihco ended up in programs with X-Pac and Road Dogg.....yeah Road Dogg. That was a missed opportunity to make Jericho a true main event player. 2) Angle in 2000 (see above section) 3) Benoit coming in in 2000 as WCW champ. They had Benoit coming off WCW TV and the World Champ, instead of making Benoit on par with the then champion HHH, they had him JOB right away and put him in the mid card spot he still holds down today. Surely they could have at least got on major PPV match out of the WCW champion facing the WWF Champion. 4) Turning HHH face after WM 17. They needed a strong babyface to make up for Rock leaving and Austin's heel turn. Instead of building off a strong match Austina nd HHH had in February of that year (which HHH won) they kept HHH heel, and the fans had nobody to get behind. 5) Invasion (do I need to expand on this one?) 6) Re-turning Austin in July '01. Austin was a failure at the box office as a heel, with the Invasion they had a chance to undo their mistake, but not only did they no undo the mistake they swerved the fans with an Austin face turn. Bad move, and I'm sure that pissed off more than a few fans. 7) Tazz during the same time. He could have also been pushed a lot better right formt he start, but again like RVD, the fans wanted to get behind someone, and he could have been major if only they let him choke out Austin. 8) RVD also during the summer of '01. Lots of teases that went nowhere. 9) Angle as a badass babyface after 9/11. Seemed like a logical thing to do, but Angle is comedy, and that why he cant draw. 10) Lesnar as a long term dominant champion. Again, this had a lot to dow ith Hunter. Hunter didn't want to be the IC champ, so they created a new World Title and it made Lesnar look weaker. To make matters worse, they had Lesnar drop the title after only 3 months. 11) RVD in 2002 after HHH was handed the World Title. Last chance for RVD to be anything more than a mid carder. 12) Eric Bischoff -- Why did he have to hug Vince? 13) Goldberg -- Beginning to end 14) Benoit and Eddie never getting the chance to actually carry the company.

11-28-2004, 05:21 PM	#56
Mr. JL Posts: 4,834	Jeff Hardy in 2001 when he defeated Triple H for the IC Title comes to mind. This was just before Jeff lost his passion and I'd like to beleive it is where it started. He won the IC Title from Triple H and then jobs it back 6 days later and thrown into the cruiserweight division. Not too mention people did not even see Jeff get pinned to lose the title. They were too busy showing Lita getting chased by Austin instead of focusing in on the ring.

11-28-2004, 05:35 PM	#57
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	LOL PepsiMan, shut up. You're like the only person I know who says that finish was logical. AND CYNICK Thankyou once again

11-28-2004, 07:30 PM	#59
Heyman Father of Hinduship Posts: 21,083	LOL! Pepsi Man is one of my favorite tpww posters of all-time.

11-28-2004, 07:47 PM	#60
RemyRed My Opinion Matters Posts: 2,435	Booker T - 2001 The night after King Of The Ring (when he put Austin through the table) he was getting huge pops. He could've been a top face in WWE at the time (or after WM19 if he wouldn't have jobbed) but Vince's vendetta against the WCW/ECW wrestlers led him to start burying everyone who was in the Alliance after that angle was finished.

11-28-2004, 08:56 PM	#64
BigDaddyCool Pelvic Sorcerer Posts: 64,762	Who fuckin' cares if the missed the boat, it is the past and there is no changing it now, plus it is fake. There is nothing worse that people bitching and complaining about how some soap opera made for 18 year old boys messed up 3 years ago. While yes WWE dropped the ball many times, but you keep watch, or somebody does. So lets move into the now, and talk about how they should change things up instead of how the should have changed things up, it is way more productive.

11-28-2004, 09:01 PM	#65
Fignuts Hey Mister! Posts: 54,952	You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to BigDaddyCool again.

11-28-2004, 09:03 PM	#66
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	yea, sorry for discussing the past on a message board. We've never done that before

11-28-2004, 09:08 PM	#67
MVP Mas Vagina Porfavor Posts: 11,343	This thread has brought back some good memories. :cry:

11-28-2004, 09:13 PM	#70
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	hey look at this BDC THREAD http://www.tpww.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21880 HEY CHECK OUT POINT #5 WHY IS BDC DISCUSSING THE PAST HERE?

11-29-2004, 07:11 AM	#73
big_bluto Triple A's a bitch Posts: 1,039	What about Matt Morgan, Mordecai & Sean O'Haire? Morgan got brought up from OVW and got stuck straight into Survivor Series, then got promptly sent back again. Mordecai - same deal. Sean O'haire - got contracted and buried for what? 2 years? Then released! All the Tough Enough dudes - not one of them has been allowed to do anything decent in the time they've been given. I think every one of them has been lower/mid card jobbers. Jamie Noble - The guy never put a bad match on in all the time he was at WWE, and they bulleted him. Assholes! Hardcore Holly - Why haven't they sacked this guy? He's a knob! Tag Teams like Kidman/London - whole storyline was a botch-fest. My personal gripe - Matt Hardy - great talent, and they've made him job to pretty much everyone, with the possible exception of Kane, who's been made to job to EVERYONE. Matt Hardy has it all, and could be a HUGE draw for them, but as usual....his-handled! There are hundreds of others!

11-29-2004, 01:23 PM	#74
John la Rock That's how I roll!!! Posts: 4,437	OWEN HART - POST SURVIVOR SERIES 1997 They should have definetly of had a HUGE rivalry between Owen and HBK over the screw-job and the WWF Championship instead of a Raw match that ended in DQ. It should have been HBK vs Owen at the Rumble for the belt instead of HBK/Taker.

11-29-2004, 01:25 PM	#75
John la Rock That's how I roll!!! Posts: 4,437	CHRIS JERICHO - This past summer's RAW in Winnipeg Jericho won the Musical Chairs which was BRILLIANT but instead of having him face Chris Benoit (in a guaranteed 5 star match) for the World Title he recieves an Intercontinental Title Match against Randy Orton. STUPID WWE

11-29-2004, 01:35 PM	#76
Innovator Inno Knows. Posts: 43,710	Another Taz point: In 2000 after he won the ECW Title from Mike Awesome, he came out on RAW wearing the ECW Title. Then on Smackdown he faced Triple H. I know Vince alluded to this in the ECW DVD, there is no way in hell Taz should have jobbed to H there. Say a double countout or something, or make Dreamer's interference make it a no contest. The ball was there in Taz's court, then taken away. Don't even get me started on the Lawler feud.