Moss' Touchdown Celebration

[The Outlaw]

Well, the only difference I see is the fans are not being payed to be there.

Also, BCWWF, I didn't see that interview but every time I saw the interview on ESPN, ESPN2, and other stations it had the full version. So I dunno.

[Moonax]

Originally Posted by VonErich Lives It's ignored? maybe in your country... and the NFL has some of the tightest rules of any league, not just drugs but off-field conduct.

I'm sorry but a 4 game ban for a second offence and a 2 game ban for trying to run your wife over does not strike me as an example of 'tight rules'.

Funny how everyone has got bigger and faster over the last 20 years in the NFL but not in anyother sports... or indeed non-NFL life.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Well I can't say whether or not they have done steroids, since I haven't seen piss tests, but being bigger and faster can easily be explained by heavier training regimens and whatnot. They are probably worked way harder than they were 20 years ago, and for that are in better shape.

Or they are a bunch of juicers, but who knows.

[VonErich Lives]

Originally Posted by Moonax I'm sorry but a 4 game ban for a second offence and a 2 game ban for trying to run your wife over does not strike me as an example of 'tight rules'. Funny how everyone has got bigger and faster over the last 20 years in the NFL but not in anyother sports... or indeed non-NFL life.

Your right, trying to run over your wife shouldn't be handeled by sports, it should be handeled in the courts.

If you go and smack the crap out of your wife and the judge gives you probation, your job can't fire you, so I'm not sure what action you're looking for?

As for "bigger and faster" actually, people have gotten bigger and faster in almost every sport and as Newz said above, it has a lot to do with training.

High School sports teams start hitting the weights as freshman, some kids start working out as young as 10yrs old.

The increase in stnegth/speed etc... has more to do w/ modern workour routines. Mickey Mantle did 12oz curls, todays top athletes treat their body like a temple, not just workouts but diet.

[The Outlaw]

Yeah, when my high school got on the BFS program (Bigger, faster, and stronger), I went from like 180 to 215, increased my 40 time from a atrocious 5.2 to a respectable 4.8 or so (lineman here so that is semi-good), my bench went from like 180 to 260 or so. Squat went from 270 or so to 370 or so. Deadlift went from 350 or so to 480. I have never juiced in my life, so I can see HOW you get bigger, faster, and stronger.

[The Answer]

[BCWWF]

Originally Posted by The Outlaw Yeah, when my high school got on the BFS program (Bigger, faster, and stronger), I went from like 180 to 215, increased my 40 time from a atrocious 5.2 to a respectable 4.8 or so (lineman here so that is semi-good), my bench went from like 180 to 260 or so. Squat went from 270 or so to 370 or so. Deadlift went from 350 or so to 480. I have never juiced in my life, so I can see HOW you get bigger, faster, and stronger.

Well you must be European then, because we all know that its only the Americans who cheat

[Moonax]

Originally Posted by VonErich Lives Your right, trying to run over your wife shouldn't be handeled by sports, it should be handeled in the courts. If you go and smack the crap out of your wife and the judge gives you probation, your job can't fire you, so I'm not sure what action you're looking for? As for "bigger and faster" actually, people have gotten bigger and faster in almost every sport and as Newz said above, it has a lot to do with training. High School sports teams start hitting the weights as freshman, some kids start working out as young as 10yrs old. The increase in stnegth/speed etc... has more to do w/ modern workour routines. Mickey Mantle did 12oz curls, todays top athletes treat their body like a temple, not just workouts but diet.

I'm sorry that is bullshit. All you are doing is once again abrogating your responsibility. Why the hell should we laud drug takers, wife-beaters and racists as heros and yet at the same time treat a player who pretends to moon as being the most evil player out.

Joe Buck claimed it was the most disgusting thing he had ever seen, obviously ignoring the lauding of fans and media of Pete Rose (gambler), Michael Pittman (wife beater), Lawrence Taylor (drug taker), John Rocker (racist). This is to give an example of each. I'm sure that if I gave it more than 30 seconds thought I could come up with a much longer list of people who have done far worse than pretend to ( & not even really) bare his arse.

Once again you are demonstrating the fucked up priorities of sports fans (Irrespective of nation). A wife beating, drug taking and racism are ok but pretending to moon is 'the most disgusting thing'.

BCWWF what exactly has Americans cheating got to do with anything? Who mentioned nationality? You do yourself a diservice with such stupid remarks.

A simple comparison highlights the point I am trying to convey: We are not talking about the 1970s when players like Bilentnikoff used to smoke on the sideline. This is the late 1980s.

Vikings line 1988

Zimmerman 6-6 284
McDaniel 6-3 268
Lowdermilk 6-3 264
Kalis 6-5 269
irwin 6-9 290

Vikings line 2004

McKinnie 6-8 345
Liwienski 6-5 325
Birk 6-4 309
Dixon 6-5 345
Dorsey 6-7 322

Are you seriously trying to claim that in 15 years the weight of an average lineman will increase by 40-60lbs purely on the basis of 'better training'? If you believe that then you really do have your head in the sand about drug abuse?

I hate to say this but this argument is going the same way as when I suggested that Bonds record should have an asteriks and you claimed that it was perfectly reasonable to claim that Bonds's improved stats were simply the result of better conditioning and eating more broccoli and we all know how much credibility your arguments have these days...

You are entitled to believe what you want and that's fine but you'd better get ready to do your RIP's and 'respect threads' in about 10 years time when players start to keel over at the same rate as wrestlers.

[BCWWF]

Corey Stringer was on the Vikings line in 1998

[Crimson]

I'm sorrie I don't see how every lineman in the NFL now does steroids all of a sudden. That is pathetic. The Bonds argument is weak and totally seperate.

[BCWWF]

Also, looking at the Vikings offensive line in 98 and 04 doesn't mean much. The Vikings have an especially large offensive line this year, and for all I know they had a particularly small one back then. Its like taking one skittle out of a bag and concluding that all the skittles are that color.

[The Outlaw]

LOL John Rocker got mad heat for his comments and pretty much given no chance to get his rep back, Pete Rose is not allowed into the hall of fame and is constantly looked down upon, so I don't see what your argument is with them?

[John Rocker]

Niggers

[VonErich Lives]

Originally Posted by Moonax I'm sorry that is bullshit. All you are doing is once again abrogating your responsibility. Why the hell should we laud drug takers, wife-beaters and racists as heros and yet at the same time treat a player who pretends to moon as being the most evil player out.

No one said drug takers, wife-beaters and racists should be treated as hero's good job putting words in my mouth. What I tried explaning to you (let's try again) sports is a job, and legally you can't fire someone for actions that don't effect their job performance. Also, legally you commit a crime and you face your penalty and you go on, you get a 2nd chance. What would you suggest? Anyone w/ a crime loses their job? Anyone who is a first time offender gets sentenced to death?

Originally Posted by Moonax Joe Buck claimed it was the most disgusting thing he had ever seen, obviously ignoring the lauding of fans and media of Pete Rose (gambler), Michael Pittman (wife beater), Lawrence Taylor (drug taker), John Rocker (racist). This is to give an example of each. I'm sure that if I gave it more than 30 seconds thought I could come up with a much longer list of people who have done far worse than pretend to ( & not even really) bare his arse.

1) "Seen" he never watched any of those happen!

2) Buck was doing a job and the concern at that point was "FCC could find us" hence as the on-air rep of the network he made harsh comments.

3) What should one now do, when commenting on one event, bring up 50 others as refrence

4) I know he called it Disgusting but I can't find a refrence of him saying it was "the most disgusting thing he's ever seen" but it's possible he did say that, and again, the other things you talk about he didn't see and again, he was trying to protect the network/

Originally Posted by Moonax Once again you are demonstrating the fucked up priorities of sports fans (Irrespective of nation). A wife beating, drug taking and racism are ok but pretending to moon is 'the most disgusting thing'.

Again, putting words in my mouth, never said wife beating, drug taking and racism are ok.

Originally Posted by Moonax A simple comparison highlights the point I am trying to convey: We are not talking about the 1970s when players like Bilentnikoff used to smoke on the sideline. This is the late 1980s. Vikings line 1988 Zimmerman 6-6 284 McDaniel 6-3 268 Lowdermilk 6-3 264 Kalis 6-5 269 irwin 6-9 290 Vikings line 2004 McKinnie 6-8 345 Liwienski 6-5 325 Birk 6-4 309 Dixon 6-5 345 Dorsey 6-7 322 Are you seriously trying to claim that in 15 years the weight of an average lineman will increase by 40-60lbs purely on the basis of 'better training'? If you believe that then you really do have your head in the sand about drug abuse?

Yes, also you forget that lines have different priorities... heck, some lines flux 30lbs a person in a year because they go from a small/quick line style to a big size line. The problem isn't anyones head in the sand, we all know there is drug abuse, but you can't blame everyone and everything on drug abuse.

Also as point out Stringer was on the 1988 line, so please re-check your facts.

Originally Posted by Moonax I hate to say this but this argument is going the same way as when I suggested that Bonds record should have an asteriks and you claimed that it was perfectly reasonable to claim that Bonds's improved stats were simply the result of better conditioning and eating more broccoli and we all know how much credibility your arguments have these days... You are entitled to believe what you want and that's fine but you'd better get ready to do your RIP's and 'respect threads' in about 10 years time when players start to keel over at the same rate as wrestlers.

Yes and until Bonds admitted to roids and was caught you're innocent until proven guilty and there are other people who have had great feats and improved w/o Roids. Should we all assume Tiki Barber is on roids rather then he just took his offseason workout more seriously?

I never said Bonds wasn't on roids, I said there was no proof, only guesses and most the people guessing had no clue what they were talking about.

Yes, you believe what you want, and when players careers and names are ruid by false accusations you can feel good about yourself.

[Moonax]

Go back and read the dates. Read what I said

Stringer was a member of the Vikings line in 1998

The Vikings line I gave you was 1988. A 10 year difference.

The Vikings line was 'big' then.

The largest lineman drafted in 1988 was Tony Mandrich at 315.

John Rocker lost his job because he couldn't throw strikes not for being a racist or homophobe.

Had he still been able to strike people out then he would still be treated like a hero. That to me is fucked up.

You claimed that the NFL has a 'strict' drugs policy. The standard penalty for failing a drugs test is a 2 year ban. For failing a second test is a lifetime ban. In the NFL the penalty for failing a second test is a 4 week ban.

No one who does a 'normal' job is paid millions of pounds or has sponsorship deals, nor are they treated as heros by the media and thousands of people. Thus your argument is irrelevent.

Are you telling me that Joe Buck has never sat down and read an article saying that Pete Rose should be forgiven for gambling, etc? Does Joe Buck live in a cupboard during the week and only come out on sundays for games?

The very fact that you are trying to argue a position of saying that criminal and anti-social behaviour should not have a bearing on how we view people demonstrates that you place conduct on the field as more important (and thus worse) than wife beating or racism.

[BCWWF]

Bob Knight said it best, there are guys in the hall of fame that have done much worse (wife beaters, drug addicts etc), but they are in there because they were good at baseball, so Pete Rose should be in there too.

[VonErich Lives]

Originally Posted by Moonax Go back and read the dates. Read what I said Stringer was a member of the Vikings line in 1998 The Vikings line I gave you was 1988. A 10 year difference. The Vikings line was 'big' then. The largest lineman drafted in 1988 was Tony Mandrich at 315. .

Ok, my and (someone else’s, not you!) misread that, still players do get bigger and stronger, they have in all sports. 40-60lbs over 16yrs that’s 2.5 – 3.75/lbs a year. You also need to account heights in that.

Originally Posted by Moonax John Rocker lost his job because he couldn't throw strikes not for being a racist or homophobe. Had he still been able to strike people out then he would still be treated like a hero. That to me is fucked up.

A Hero? No. Do I agree with his views, no, but he’s allowed to have them. He doesn’t have to like someone because they are gay, or black, or Jewish etc. It’s stupid, but not illegal, if he acts on it, i.e.: has a company and won’t hire blacks or burns a cross on a Jews lawn, that’s illegal. Not all athletes are treated as “Hero’s” not sure where you get that idea.

Originally Posted by Moonax You claimed that the NFL has a 'strict' drugs policy. The standard penalty for failing a drugs test is a 2 year ban. For failing a second test is a lifetime ban. In the NFL the penalty for failing a second test is a 4 week ban.

Standard? Whose standard? The NFL is also the only league I know of that has policies and has suspended players for off-field issues such as “wife-beating”.

Originally Posted by Moonax No one who does a 'normal' job is paid millions of pounds or has sponsorship deals, nor are they treated as heroes by the media and thousands of people. Thus your argument is irrelevant.

Yeah, that makes sense, no it doesn’t that’s you just avoiding questions and counter argument. You don’t lose your job because you break the law unless it affects your job. That being said, athletes who have had problems don’t get sponsorship deals or treated like the so-called “Hero” that you seem to think there all treated as. People can like and cheer for who they want, that’s their choice, people cheered Hitler, doesn’t mean you or I agree with that, but they did.

Originally Posted by Moonax Are you telling me that Joe Buck has never sat down and read an article saying that Pete Rose should be forgiven for gambling, etc? Does Joe Buck live in a cupboard during the week and only come out on sundays for games?.

No, but if you want to pick on exactly what he said, and ignore any reasoning, then let’s go with exactly what you said he said (again, the quotes I’ve seen don’t have the words your using) “SEEN” is the key word your claiming he said, and if that’s the case, he would have had to watched Pete Rose gamble to make your argument.

Originally Posted by Moonax The very fact that you are trying to argue a position of saying that criminal and anti-social behavior should not have a bearing on how we view people demonstrates that you place conduct on the field as more important (and thus worse) than wife beating or racism.

Again, could you stop making things up that I never said (you don’t look like Kane Knight), I personally do view them differently, I think someone who hits their wife is scum, but does it mean they should be fired from their job? Then what? What job are they allowed to have? Or do they just go on unemployment and when that runs out, social security? How do we decide what crimes are worth someone having their life ruined and someone not getting a 2nd chance? If that’s the way you feel, then why don’t we just give anyone who breaks the law the death penalty, because if they can’t be allowed to have a job, and we should all look down upon them…

No one is saying what Moss did was worse then someone beating their wife, or drug use, etc… Let’s remember this is a guy though who tried to run over a cop (or meter maid?).

But in some people’s opinion, what he did was wrong; does that mean its worse then other hardcore crimes? No.

Let me give you this example.

Someone breaks into a home, no one is there, and they steal a TV and leaves.

Someone breaks into a home, rape and murders the family and steals a TV and leaves.

Both are wrong, both are crimes, both should have penalty, but clearly one is worse then the other.

[VonErich Lives]

Originally Posted by BCWWF Bob Knight said it best, there are guys in the hall of fame that have done much worse (wife beaters, drug addicts etc), but they are in there because they were good at baseball, so Pete Rose should be in there too.

Pete Rose is not in there for the same reason Joe Jackson isn't.

It's not because he gambled, it's because he bet against his own team.

If they could prove that he bet, and even bet on baseball, but not on games he was involved in and especially against his own team, it would be a much different story.

[The Outlaw]

Originally Posted by Moonax John Rocker lost his job because he couldn't throw strikes not for being a racist or homophobe. Had he still been able to strike people out then he would still be treated like a hero. That to me is fucked up.

LOL what

Are you on drugs?

[Crimson]

You know what's really fucked up is that Moss gets fined 10k for his mooning and Abraham only gets 7500!!!!!! WHAT KINDA SHIT IS THAT?
So it is far worse to do a harmless gesture towards the crowd than to possibly end a carrer by shoving a big forearm to a QB's head at full speed, that's basically what the NFL is saying. Ridiculoso

[el fregadero]

What? I don't remember Abraham doing anything like that.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

It wasn't Abraham that's why lol

It was the linebacker, fuck, whats his name. #50..Barton i think

[VonErich Lives]

Originally Posted by Crimson You know what's really fucked up is that Moss gets fined 10k for his mooning and Abraham only gets 7500!!!!!! WHAT KINDA SHIT IS THAT? So it is far worse to do a harmless gesture towards the crowd than to possibly end a carrer by shoving a big forearm to a QB's head at full speed, that's basically what the NFL is saying. Ridiculoso

I'm going to guess Moss got that fine because it's not a first offense, he's been fined from the league before for stuff like that. (spraying the ref w/ a water bottle).

[BCWWF]

Originally Posted by The Outlaw LOL what Are you on drugs?

Are you implying that John Rocker is still a good pitcher or that he would still be treated like a hero? Because there is really no doubt that he is not a good pitcher anymore.

[MoRcHeEbA]

LOL @ MOSS did anyone hear what he said today?

"10,000 aint nothing, they better hope I don't wave my dick next week"

[BCWWF]

lol awesome.

I ate lunch downtown today, and I was just thinking how sweet that would be for Randy Moss to walk in and start talking shit to people. He is hilarious and the man.

[Triple A]

Originally Posted by MoRcHeEbA LOL @ MOSS did anyone hear what he said today? "10,000 aint nothing, they better hope I don't wave my dick next week"

LOL yeah just gonna post that. Hilarious. He is a huge heel.

[SuperSlim]

$10,000 for pretendin to moon? man this is crazy.

[VonErich Lives]

Originally Posted by SuperSlim $10,000 for pretendin to moon? man this is crazy.

I don't think it has as much to do w/ the action as his history and there attempt to crack down on "excesive celebrations"

Also, after the moon, he appeard to wipe his ass on the goal post and I think the league found that more offensive.

I've still yet to hear any other visiting team talk about this "mooning" tradition the colts have, I hope Dungy didn't make it up... Someone asked a great question "Think Dungy would have said anything if it was Jeremy Shockey who did it"

[el fregadero]

Originally Posted by MoRcHeEbA LOL @ MOSS did anyone hear what he said today? "10,000 aint nothing, they better hope I don't wave my dick next week"

LOL

[The Miz]

LOL Moss is the man

[Y2Ant]

Originally Posted by MoRcHeEbA LOL @ MOSS did anyone hear what he said today? "10,000 aint nothing, they better hope I don't wave my dick next week"

ROFL

[The Outlaw]

Originally Posted by BCWWF Are you implying that John Rocker is still a good pitcher or that he would still be treated like a hero? Because there is really no doubt that he is not a good pitcher anymore.

I am saying he was never treated like a hero. I am not sure where the idea that he was a good pitcher came from. His last season he had like a 6.67 era. Yeah, based on that I think he is a great pitcher.

Seriously...

[BCWWF]

There is no doubt that John Rocker was a good pitcher for a while though, when he was on the Braves he was a good closer and even the year on the Indians he was alright. I don't know, he definately wasn't treated as a hero but I think there were people out there who liked him.

[Hired Hitman]

TD celebrations are what makes the game good to watch.. because the game itself sucks ass... but seriously those are great to watch.

[The Outlaw]

Yeah I was a Rocker fan actually. Before he went psycho and made those comments, he was pretty dominant. Seemed like around that time he just blew up and started having seizures on the mound and just looked like he had tourettes. I dunno what happened to him.

[The Mackem]

Touchdown celebrations should be limitless, one of the best things about the game.