Official British Lions Tour 05 thread

[Wengerland]

That last man standing ad is great

Very surprised that Rokocoko isn't even in the squad, out of form or not he's still a pretty formidable threat, i'd have given him a spot, can't complain that he's not there though

23-6 win today for the Lions against Wellington. I've not seen any of it yet to be honest, but it's nice to see we didn't concede any tries.

[Bad Company]

I was at the game, boring as hell... I'm not a Wellington supporter.
Jonny missed an easy drop goal and an easy penalty, that won't help his stake for the test 1st 5.
Rokococo has nothing on Sivitavu this season, howlett is average, Rico Gear is my choice for All Blacks 14, he's had a stunner.

[Wengerland]

As it's Woodward in charge its pretty certain that Jonny will be in the Test side. Stephen Jones didn't have a flawless game when he started (not sure about today) and O'Gara was poor. The best performance of the four fly halves was Hodgson's, i think it's fair to say, but his form coming into it was poor so i still wouldn't want him in the Test side, i'd have preferred Andy Goode going into it but i'm a bit biased there.

One of the All Blacks i didn't know much about prior to the Fiji game was Conrad Smith, but he looked alright, very solid performance.

[Bad Company]

Oh definately, Woodward won't pick anyone else but his jonny
Conrad is a solid player, I think it's his 2nd season in the team now, he's one to watch.
Also, Jonah is out for the rest of the season with a shoulder injury after playing his comeback game in the martin johnston tribute match.

[Wengerland]

Quite a good performance against Otago.

The team has been announced for Tuesday with Henson and Murphy starting, so neither will play in the 1st Test. Very surprised about Henson, i've not seen a single choice XV where he's not starting but oh well.

Probable 1st Test team:

Lewsey
Thomas
O'Driscoll
Wilkinson
Robinson
Jones
Peel

Jenkins
Byrne
White
O'Connell
Grewcock
Hill
Back
Corry

Disappointed if that's the case, mainly with Robinson because we got all the "selection to be based on form, not reputation" stuff and that's clearly not the case with that choice. I'd have gone for Shane Williams out of the two, they're pretty similiar and Williams i simply in better form.

Really disappointed about Henson, he'd offer a good kicking alternative and tackles well, all the fly-haves have a tendency to miss a few tackles and Wilko's subconsciously not going in as powerfully after those injuries. Ryan Jones is a bit unlucky but will make the bench at least, could be preferred to Back though, with Corry moving to 7.

[Bad Company]

Not a very convincing performance by the Lions against southland who are a poor NZ provincial side at best. Henson had an alright game, so he's unlucky he's not playing in the test.
The All Blacks side for Saturdays test is as follows.

NEW ZEALAND: 15 Leon MacDonald, 14 Doug Howlett, 13 Tana Umaga, 12 Aaron Mauger, 11 Sitiveni Sivivatu, 10 Daniel Carter, 9 Justin Marshall; 8 Rodney So'oialo, 7 Richie McCaw, 6 Jerry Collins, 5 Ali Williams, 4 Chris Jack, 3 Carl Hayman, 2 Keven Mealamu, 1 Tony Woodcock. Reserves: 16 Derren Witcombe, 17 Greg Somerville, 18 Jono Gibbes, 19 Sione Lauaki, 20 Byron Kelleher, 21 Mils Muliaina, 22 Rico Gear.

Not too many surprises there for the New Zealanders

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

The midweek side is miles different to the test side, I mean I don't think the Lions have much of a chance (particularly against that lineup) but I think the games are going to be hella entertaining. I think the Lions'll keep it pretty close.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I also just saw the game against the Hurricanes. The Thomas Waldren (I think that's his name) is mad ugly, and I dunno...I don't really like him, I wanted someone to take him out

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Sorry, the game against "Wellington"

[Wengerland]

The Southland game was the first i have watched live as i've either not had the channel at my house or wasn't up, so i've made do with full delayed coverage and highlights until now.

I could see why pretty much all of them missed out on a test spot, aside from Henson, and Sheridan and Shanklin after they came on, it was atrocious, though Moody and Williams weren't as bad. Reserve side or not, they're still all internationals and playing against the side who finished second bottom in the NPC, should have been far more comfortable.

Got to agree with Scot Quinnell, who was the studio analyst, in thinking that Woodward went about it the wrong way. There's no real need to mention that those who would play against Southland wouldn't be in the test team, it just gets the players down and i'm pretty certain we'd have had a better performance had the places been made to believe that test spots were still up for grabs. It's also seemed to divide the camp a bit, dunno really but i got the feeling from Henson and Owen's interviews after the match that it was a 'them and us' feel to it.

[Bad Company]

The test match is going to be big, I know the Lions will step up and I'm really looking forward to it. Sivivatu is the man to watch in the All Blacks, and Justin Marshall will be looking to stamp his authority on the game before he heads overseas.

[Bad Company]

The Lions team has been named and as a surprise Jonny Wilkinson has been named at 12, not his usual position, but maybe he can spark some magic from there.

LIONS: 15 Jason Robinson, 14 Josh Lewsey, 13 Brian O'Driscoll (c), 12 Jonny Wilkinson, 11 Gareth Thomas, 10 Stephen Jones, 9 Dwayne Peel, 8 Martin Corry, 7 Neil Back, 6 Richard Hill, 5 Ben Kay, 4 Paul O'Connell, 3 Julian White, 2 Shane Byrne, 1 Gethin Jenkins. Reserves: 16 Steve Thompson, 17 Graham Rowntree, 18 Danny Grewcock, 19 Ryan Jones, 20 Matt Dawson, 21 Will Greenwood, 22 Shane Horgan.

[Wengerland]

When Henson was left out i think Wilkinson at inside centre was to be expected, no-one has really made that spot their own. I thought it may have been Grewcock instead of Kay but i can't complain about big Ben's inclusion, it means there's 4 Leicester Tigers in the XV and Rowntree on the bench.

I'd have possibly have had Shane Williams on the bench instead of Greenwood as, if i remember rightly, he caused New Zealand a load of problems in the World Cup. Plus that gives 2 wing options from the bench and Horgan can play centre and had done for many years alongside O'Driscoll for Leinster, until D'Arcy came along.

[Bad Company]

woah woah woah, England never played NZ in the world cup

[Wengerland]

Shane Williams i meant I'm pretty sure Wales played you lot.

[Bad Company]

oh shitttttttttttttttttttt, messed that one up

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Dwayne Peel is incredible.

That side is pretty fuckin good looking. The guy to look out for is Gethin Jenkins.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

And why is Justin fucking Marshal going overseas?

[Wengerland]

He's going to Leeds, who won the cup but just escaped relegation. I think he just said he'd like to play in England at some point or something like that. Carlos Spencer and Andrew Mehrtens are also coming over, Spencer to Northampton, who also just escaped relegation, and Mehrtens to Harlequins, who did go down.

[Team Sheep]

Lol, I watched the Welsh news the other day, and they were interviewing these people who were on their way to New Zealand to watch the 1st test. This Welsh bloke said: "I bought an All Blacks jersey this morning, and I have my Lions shirt in my bag. But until Sir Clive Woodward stops making all these anti-Welsh, English Biase decisions I won't be wearing the Lions shirt and shall be supporting New Zealand". Lol, come on, stop bitching and moaning. Woodward made his picks and I guess we should respect him with that. Start complaining if we get hammered. I do dissagree with a few of his decisions (Jason Robinson anyone?) but let's just wait until after the game.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Originally Posted by Wengerland He's going to Leeds, who won the cup but just escaped relegation. I think he just said he'd like to play in England at some point or something like that. Carlos Spencer and Andrew Mehrtens are also coming over, Spencer to Northampton, who also just escaped relegation, and Mehrtens to Harlequins, who did go down.

Well I can understand Spencer and Mehrtens going over, they aren't exactly "in favour" with the All Blacks or even their respective clubs, Spencer has been awful for Auckland and Mehrtens barely even sees the field for Cantebury, so of course they're gonna go over to England.

But Marshall is still pretty much the best scrumhalf in the game right now, so I'm just fairly surprised. Usually most guys wait til their a little past their prime to leave their respective countries and go over and play in England or have fallen out of favour with the international squads. (See: Mark Andrews, Chester Williams, Bob Skinstad, Corne Krige many other South Africans)

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Jones, Peel, Jenkins, Thomas

that's almost a 3rd of the side being Welsh. I mean I'd have more Welsh guys in there, but the 4 in there are solid, and will do Wales proud.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

lol, I remember watching Wales vs. France, and I had the French feed. The only two words I understood the whole thing was "DWAYNE PEEL" and "SHAYNE WILLIAMS"

[Team Sheep]

Originally Posted by Crash Bang Newstead lol, I remember watching Wales vs. France, and I had the French feed. The only two words I understood the whole thing was "DWAYNE PEEL" and "SHAYNE WILLIAMS"

I almost had a heart attack during that game. What a match

[Bad Company]

The game's tomorrow, I'm pumped! Gutted I can't make it down to Christchurch to see the game, but at least I'm going to the one in Wellington!
I guaranteed the CEO here an all black thrashing, so I hope I dont lose my job, cause I think it's gonna be close!

[Team Sheep]

Okay, prediction time. I'm gonna go for an All Black win by 12 points. Hope I'm wrong though, of course.

[Wengerland]

I really think we have to win this one, i honestly can't see us winning both Tests afterwards.

Can't see past an All Black win though probably fairly close though, less than 8 or so points i'll say.

[Karlsberg]

All Black win by 10 though when ever i try to predict something i am normally wrong and i hope that is the case once more.

[Bad Company]

I'll go All Blacks by 13+

[Bad Company]

15 Minutes to go until kickoff. I'm off to watch the game.
Go the All Blacks!

[Bad Company]

Good win to the All Blacks 21-3, pretty messy game, I didn't think the referee was that good. I'm hoping O'Driscoll is going to be ok, looks like he was hit hard in a ruck in back play.

[Rob]

From the replays, aside from the fact got was lifted off the ground, the tackles didn't look bad. Everyone is already saying there are too many Englishmen on this tour. Shame because some of us said that weeks ago.

[Wengerland]

Useless. No-one had a good game.

I just woke up with 2 minutes till kick off, wish i hadn't bothered after that performance.

[Team Sheep]

Everyone came over to have bacon and sausages to watch the game. Waste of a Saturday lie in and food . I'm really pissed off, we serioulsy didn't even look like scoring once. The Lions are too one dimensional, the opposition can work out their style of play so easily. They play like an under 12's team, no moves or anything, just phase after phase and not really going anywhere. They hardly left the 2nd 3rd of the field. I'm going for 3-0 All Blacks now, unless Woodward seriously rings in the changes.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

O'Driscoll is out for the rest of the tour. Dislocated his shoulder. Bollocks.

[Bad Company]

Yeah, he's claiming he was spear tackled by Tana, but it doesn't really look like that, it just looks like a bit of off the ball pushing around and he landed wrong. It's more tough luck than anything else. The touch judge was right there and although there were reports in Britain suggesting that the Lions wanted Umaga and Keven Mealamu cited over the incident, this has apparently been rejected by citing commissioner Willem Venter from South Africa.
I can see where he's coming from, but it's all part of the game, very unfortunate for him as he's a class player, but even with him on the field the result wasn't going to be any different.

[Wengerland]

It was a pretty shitty tackle, the ball had gone from the ruck and then Mealamu and Umaga spear tackled him. You can stop people from attempting to get to the ball and whatnot but that's a disgrace really, and to add insult to injury, Grewcock's been cited for biting someone

Gareth Thomas is taking over the captaincy, which puts paid to the back three i'd have gone for in the 2nd Test - Murphy, Lewsey and Williams. Henson has to be recalled now and one of Jones or Wilkinson dropped to the bench, probably Jones but they had similiar performances, though Wilkinson made a great try-saving tackle in the 1st half.

[Team Sheep]

Grewcock's response: "I'm very dissapointed. I did not bite him."

[Bad Company]

Do you know it was a spear tackle though? I've looked at it and it definately doesn't look like a spear tackle. Don't go with what whinging woodward is saying, have a look for yourself! I thought it was malicious until I saw it, and it's nothing. I'd hardly call it a disgrace... The fact the Lions are going to turn this point into a "this is why we lost the series" excuse and whinge about it every 10 minutes is the disgrace.

[Bad Company]

Umaga in gun over tackle footage
27 June 2005

By JIM KAYES

All Black captain Tana Umaga is under the spotlight after damning footage of an alleged spear tackle that put Lions captain Brian O'Driscoll out of the tour emerged last night.


O'Driscoll suffered a dislocated shoulder 40 seconds into Saturday night's first test at Jade Stadium in Christchurch. The All Blacks won 21-3 to go 1-0 up in the three-test series. Some British journalists suggested that Umaga had reacted to O'Driscoll's aggressive response to the pre-match haka.

The tackle debate is the latest controversy to hit the touring side. O'Driscoll's replacement as captain, Welsh player Gareth Thomas, is caught up in assault allegations.

Thomas and three other men have been charged with assault for an incident in Pau, France, in 2003 but deny the charges.

Lions coach Sir Clive Woodward has also come under fire in Wales, Ireland and Scotland for the team he picked for the test and its subsequent defeat.

Last night, Woodward showed video footage at a press conference in Wellington of the alleged spear tackle.

He said it was the same two angles given to South African citing commissioner Willem Venter, who ruled Umaga and hooker Keven Mealamu, who was also involved, did not have a case to answer.

The matter ends there as the Lions have no right of appeal, though Thomas said Umaga and Mealamu should apologise to O'Driscoll.

The footage shows Mealamu grabbing O'Driscoll's left leg at a ruck, and Umaga his right, and then both lift him upward.

Another shot, from a longer-view, shows O'Driscoll landing on his head and neck, and Thomas remonstrating with Australian touch judge Andy Cole.

Thomas said he heard Cole tell Mealamu and Umaga to leave O'Driscoll alone.

Umaga was placed off-limits to the media yesterday. The All Blacks are not willing to buy into a debate they believe Woodward is inflaming to divert attention away from how poorly his team played on Saturday night.

Woodward called a midnight press conference after the match. He described what happened to O'Driscoll as "horrific and horrendous".

"When you see it I think you will cringe. It's a pretty horrific situation to find yourself in as a player because you can't defend yourself."

O'Driscoll said yesterday that the tackle on him was "unnecessary and certainly beyond the rules and regulations of the game", and he was dismayed Umaga had not checked on his health.

Though Umaga has been gagged he did claim in the post-match press conference that there had been "a few incidents" that needed to be reviewed.

One of those led to the citing of Lions lock Danny Grewcock for biting Mealamu in the 63rd minute. After an eight-hour hearing in Christchurch yesterday Grewcock was suspended by Australian judicial chairman Terry Willis for two months.

Woodward said, before that sentence was known, that he would accept whatever punishment the Englishman received.

However, the citing of Grewcock made him even more incensed that Umaga and Mealamu had not been called to account.

Woodward was shocked to hear of suggestions by parts of the British media that Umaga might have targeted O'Driscoll for the way he responded to the haka.

He said he had directed the Lions response to the traditional war dance after he received an e-mail "from a Maori", whom he would not name. The e-mail explained the "appropriate" way for the Lions to face the haka, which included O'Driscoll and halfback Dwayne Peel (the youngest in the team) moving out to confront it.

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Looks like this is going to be blown out of proportion by woodward.