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Old 11-24-2005, 12:06 PM   #41
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You've missed the point again,legend. As i mentioned before, Carlito was about to have a match with Shelton at summerslam, and then what happened eh?We were all confused as to wtf they were doing with the ic title, and now we know the answer, Flair and HHH were using there powers backstage in order to find a way to start up their feud, thats what I think anyway.Oh and you call 'not defending the title in a last man standing match against HHH' doing something with the title?Er, ok. If you say so.

A title only matters in a feud where both wrestlers care about it, as I said before and I'll say again, HHH doesn't care about the title.You can't seriously tell me that he does.I'll just laugh at you.
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:06 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126
If Triple H turned face he'd get a huge pop too. So by your logic, if Hunter/Hogan/Austin won a title it would be the greatest thing the WWE has done in years if they get a title?

Where were you in 2004?
If HHH were to get the title it wouldn't be that bad either. It would give it more attention to the IC title, and give instant credibility to the wrestler who would end up beating HHH.
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:07 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
I was to events before Long became a personality where he got bigger pops than the actual wrestlers. Shall we put the title on a ref, and make it the greatest day ever?
well i do remember the 2 refs having a match....
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:09 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TL
You've missed the point again,legend. As i mentioned before, Carlito was about to have a match with Shelton at summerslam, and then what happened eh?We were all confused as to wtf they were doing with the ic title, and now we know the answer, Flair and HHH were using there powers backstage in order to find a way to start up their feud, thats what I think anyway.Oh and you call 'not defending the title in a last man standing match against HHH' doing something with the title?Er, ok. If you say so.

A title only matters in a feud where both wrestlers care about it, as I said before and I'll say again, HHH doesn't care about the title.You can't seriously tell me that he does.I'll just laugh at you.
The title was getting no attention on Carlito, and a little attention is better then no attention at all.

Also Flair said him winning the IC title was more important then any of the 16 times he won the world title. If he meat that or not it doesn't matter. He gave the IC title a pretty nice rub with that comment.
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:10 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legend
If HHH were to get the title it wouldn't be that bad either. It would give it more attention to the IC title, and give instant credibility to the wrestler who would end up beating HHH.
And then they'd drop it to someone who the marks don't give a shit about and that will be that.

Or he'd drop it to someone like Flair...
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:11 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
1. Yeah, people already wanted to cheer him because he's a name in a sea of useless n00bs.

2. They haven't forgotten about it, they've just ignored actually defending it. Now Benjamin, they've forgotten about.

3. IT's the whole "big names=credibility" thing. Even though we know he doesn't want or need the title, doesn't care, and is gunning for Flair only because it's a good way to get on TV.
2-I don't think they've forgotten about Benjamin,more like they've just ran out of superstars for him to face at SS, I like his mini feud at the moment with Angle, if Angle wins at SS, that could set up a tirple threat match between Angle/Shelton&Cena.(yeah, I wish...)

3)It doesn't really give the title much credibility though if its not the main focus of the feud.I don't care how big a name a wrestler is in this case.
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:11 PM   #47
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I agree with TL... do you think HHH will want to be on the mic bragging about he is the Best IC champ there ever was?? Fuck No!!! he probably is figuring a way to face cena or angle for the title soon
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:12 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126
And then they'd drop it to someone who the marks don't give a shit about and that will be that.

Or he'd drop it to someone like Flair...
People would care about the person that beat HHH. They did care about Shelton for a little while after he beat HHH.
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:14 PM   #49
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when he became Mr. Benjamin (which i think he could've done well with)
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:14 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legend
The title was getting no attention on Carlito, and a little attention is better then no attention at all.

Also Flair said him winning the IC title was more important then any of the 16 times he won the world title. If he meat that or not it doesn't matter. He gave the IC title a pretty nice rub with that comment.
I'll remind you for the Carlito/Shelton feud again.Remember when Shelton had a couple of chances to get the title off of Carlito and Carlito got himself counted out/dq'ued?That was a perfect set up for the match at SS that never happened.So it was getting attention.

You are correct that when he said that, that did put the title over massively, but if its so important, why isn't it the main focus of a feud?Answer that.
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:16 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legend
People would care about the person that beat HHH. They did care about Shelton for a little while after he beat HHH.
There's the problem. Shelton beat Triple H and then went right back to where he was within a month. Beating Hunter isn't a good thing right now. If anything, not facing Hunter in any match is a good thing. If you're feuding with Hunter, and even if you go over, you're going to go no where fast.

This is a little off topic, but who has Hunter put over lately who has STAYED over that wasn't his friend backstage. Batista and Flair are off the list because they're friends with Hunter.
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:18 PM   #52
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**crickets chirping**
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:23 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TL
I'll remind you for the Carlito/Shelton feud again.Remember when Shelton had a couple of chances to get the title off of Carlito and Carlito got himself counted out/dq'ued?That was a perfect set up for the match at SS that never happened.So it was getting attention.

You are correct that when he said that, that did put the title over massively, but if its so important, why isn't it the main focus of a feud?Answer that.
Your right it's not the main focus, but I don't think it hurts the title. Giving the title to Flair now was better then keeping it on Carlito since that Shelton feud was dropped for some reason.
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:26 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legend
The title was getting no attention on Carlito, and a little attention is better then no attention at all.
Not when that attention capitolises how little it means.
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:27 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126
There's the problem. Shelton beat Triple H and then went right back to where he was within a month. Beating Hunter isn't a good thing right now. If anything, not facing Hunter in any match is a good thing. If you're feuding with Hunter, and even if you go over, you're going to go no where fast.

This is a little off topic, but who has Hunter put over lately who has STAYED over that wasn't his friend backstage. Batista and Flair are off the list because they're friends with Hunter.
Nice way to elimate my biggest option in Batista. Since he put Batista over huge, and put him over more then anyone has been put over in years.
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:30 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legend
Nice way to elimate my biggest option in Batista. Since he put Batista over huge, and put him over more then anyone has been put over in years.
Well since they're friends, its hardly surprising.But anyhow, what happened when HHH put Batista over?Batista got sent to Smackdown.
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:30 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Not when that attention capitolises how little it means.
Even if it's on Ric Flair?
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:31 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legend
People would care about the person that beat HHH. They did care about Shelton for a little while after he beat HHH.
And they weren't even able to sustain it with a charismatic and athletic individual. So what gain is there?
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:33 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legend
Your right it's not the main focus, but I don't think it hurts the title. Giving the title to Flair now was better then keeping it on Carlito since that Shelton feud was dropped for some reason.
Ofcourse it hurts the title, i know you're not going to accept that in order to keep your argument going, but if a title isn't the main focus of a feud,it's hardly doing much good.
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:33 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legend
Even if it's on Ric Flair?
What does it being on Flair have to do with it? Do you think casual fans give a shit that this geezer once meant something to a bunch of retarded smarks?
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:34 PM   #61
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on putting Triple H over....honetly IMO that's about it, orton really dosent count since he won the title back anyways
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:41 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legend
Nice way to elimate my biggest option in Batista. Since he put Batista over huge, and put him over more then anyone has been put over in years.
Like TL said, since they're friends, it's not surprising. Hunter could put X Pac over as well, but does that mean that he's doing it for the good of the business or the good of his friends?
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:41 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
What does it being on Flair have to do with it? Do you think casual fans give a shit that this geezer once meant something to a bunch of retarded smarks?
Yes I do
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:46 PM   #64
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All I'm saying is giving the title to Flair was better then keeping it on Carltio.
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:49 PM   #65
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Yeah, you could have actually built up some new talent like the belt is supposed to do, or you can slap it on a guy as a "thank you" for still being a part of the business. You made the right choice. Nobody wants to elevate new talent when they can have a feud that goes nowhere.
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:49 PM   #66
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So giving the title to a guy whos past his best is better than giving it to rising superstar?
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:50 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by legend
All I'm saying is giving the title to Flair was better then keeping it on Carltio.
What about Shelton? Helms? Kane? Snitsky? Masters? Edge? Big Show?

Many wrestlers could have benefited greatly from receiving the title.
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Old 11-24-2005, 01:09 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Yeah, you could have actually built up some new talent like the belt is supposed to do, or you can slap it on a guy as a "thank you" for still being a part of the business. You made the right choice. Nobody wants to elevate new talent when they can have a feud that goes nowhere.
Yeah, but the Shetlon feud went nowhere. Carlito was doing less with it then Flair is now. If they would have kept the feud going and brought someone up to feud with Carltio then that would have been great probably even better then Flair winning, but that wasn't happening for some reason. So if the title and the person holding it is going no where right now you mine as well put it on somebody like a Flair to give it some attention.
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Old 11-24-2005, 01:10 PM   #69
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i think i agree with the "master's option" he could use the push or in the future be a bid for a title shot
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Old 11-24-2005, 01:24 PM   #70
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If Carlito still had the IC title, imagine how much more established he would've been by now.
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Old 11-24-2005, 01:29 PM   #71
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Meh, I got tired of reading the responses when a lot of them were all the same, but frankly, I've never been the biggest fan of Flair, but you have to respect what he brings to the table when he comes out there, even in his old age. Frankly, Flair having the title gives the title some more prestige than it had when Carlito was barely defending it. As for whoever said Flair was "barely" defending it, he's defended it against Triple H, Rob Conway, and Trevor Murdoch in the last month. I'd say considering the brand split, that's a reasonable amount of title defenses.

As for the title "not being what the match was all about" at Taboo Tuesday, it's been done before. They're not really burying the Intercontinental Title by saying that. They're putting over the personal animosity way more than they're burying the title. I mean, I don't think anyone out there is really going to expect the EXACT same level of passion to go into the Intercontinental Title that goes into the World Title.

Still, I don't have a problem with it. As for how you can get it off of him, it's really easy. Whether he reverts to his heel was or remains a face is irrelevant. Given Flair's age, especially, it really wouldn't hurt his credibility too much if just about anyone on the roster just pulled off the "huge upset" over him one night, cleanly.

Of course, he could give it to Triple H, too, and Triple H has been known for having a minor title after having the World Title and dropping it when the time is right. As much as I don't like Shelton Benjamin, it would make sense for Shelton to get yet another win over The Game to take it. Then you could have someone like Viscera or Val Venis win it with help from the other or something (or unsolicited help from Flair). There's Chavo Guerrero who could probably stand to be pushed. As cold as it is to say, now's the time to push Chavo as never before, because no one is ever going to want to see Chavo succeed big as they do right now.

Also, don't strip Flair of the title or have him vacate it or anything like that. I hate it when that happens to titles. It kind of hurts their legacy to me, albeit just a little bit. I'd rather see Flair lose it in the ring, even if it's at a house show. Anyway, that's my cent and a half.
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Old 11-24-2005, 01:35 PM   #72
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Here's how I see it. I feel Ric Flair has a great presence about him. Shit, when his music hits, he walks out in the sparkly robe, the ref opens the ropes for him, he gets in the ring, he poses, reveals his belt. He looks like what a champion should look like. No I don't mean his wrinkly bitch tits. He just has that Aura about him. Every time he comes to the ring he looks important. His gimmick is to look like a star. He reveals his robe and there's the IC Belt. The belt now looks important, it looks like something to fight for.

OR.... here come carlito wearing a shirt that appeals to toddlers.
Or.... Here comes Shelton, a great talent with no gimmick.
You really want two guys that dont' have the "look" or the story to walk down to the ring with no pyro or anything that makes him look important?

I think Ric Flair has elevated the title.

HHH fighting for the belt elevated the title.

YOu watch. Flair will lose it soon enough and it'll be on some guy like Carlito or Helms or somebody like that. I bet the majority of the fans stop caring about that belt and we talk again about how the belt is being poorly booked.
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Old 11-24-2005, 01:36 PM   #73
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Pepsi man-the reaosn alot of the repsonses were the same was because legend just could not get what the point was.I hate repeating myself, but when people ask the same questions, you kinda have no choice.

How are they not burying the IC title though?The last man standing match isn't even going to be for the IC title.Which 1)holds back the roster for even longer, someone like Shelton(as you said) could be having a good run with it right now. And 2) wastes the potential of the IC title.

Triple H will never have the IC title though, it would make no sense.

And I agree with you're last point.The only three people i can see beating Flair though are-Shelton/Carlito(to restore any credibility he lost when losing to Flair) and Masters.
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Old 11-24-2005, 01:37 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickman
Here's how I see it. I feel Ric Flair has a great presence about him. Shit, when his music hits, he walks out in the sparkly robe, the ref opens the ropes for him, he gets in the ring, he poses, reveals his belt. He looks like what a champion should look like. No I don't mean his wrinkly bitch tits. He just has that Aura about him. Every time he comes to the ring he looks important. His gimmick is to look like a star. He reveals his robe and there's the IC Belt. The belt now looks important, it looks like something to fight for.
I am sick of repeating myself but, HHH doesn't care about the IC title so him fighting for it is meaningless, and how is the title important when it isn't on the line at SS?Read the posts people for fuck sake.
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Old 11-24-2005, 01:45 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by TL
Pepsi man-the reaosn alot of the repsonses were the same was because legend just could not get what the point was.I hate repeating myself, but when people ask the same questions, you kinda have no choice.

How are they not burying the IC title though?The last man standing match isn't even going to be for the IC title.Which 1)holds back the roster for even longer, someone like Shelton(as you said) could be having a good run with it right now. And 2) wastes the potential of the IC title.

Triple H will never have the IC title though, it would make no sense.

And I agree with you're last point.The only three people i can see beating Flair though are-Shelton/Carlito(to restore any credibility he lost when losing to Flair) and Masters.
They're not burying the title, because now, at least it's being used, unlike it was during Carlito's run, overall. I thought it was ridiculous that SummerSlam didn't have an Intercontinental Title defense.

I haven't heard for sure that the Last Man Standing Match isn't for the title, but if it's not, it doesn't really matter all that much. One night of the title not being on the line was never a title killer back in the old days, and it's not now, at least in my opinion. Hell, Flair could have the hell beaten out of him and want to take time off, only for Bischoff to order Flair to defend it on Raw, threatening to strip him. Have a broken Flair come to the ring, and voila, instant win for the opponent, and even in those circumstances, beating Flair means something, especially with the buildup he's gotten this year. He's beaten Christian, Triple H, Carlito, Rob Conway, etc.

As for Triple H not having the title because it "wouldn't make sense", I could easily see it making sense, but even if it doesn't, how has not making any sense stopped anything from happening in wrestling in the past?

I don't think Carlito necessarily needs the title back FROM FLAIR to restore any credibility he might have lost, but a win over Flair at SOME point down the road certainly wouldn't hurt.
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Old 11-24-2005, 01:46 PM   #76
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Quote:
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I am sick of repeating myself but, HHH doesn't care about the IC title so him fighting for it is meaningless, and how is the title important when it isn't on the line at SS?Read the posts people for fuck sake.
When did Triple H say he didn't care about the Intercontinental Title? Triple H is a multiple time Intercontinental Champ.
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Old 11-24-2005, 01:48 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TL
I am sick of repeating myself but, HHH doesn't care about the IC title so him fighting for it is meaningless, and how is the title important when it isn't on the line at SS?Read the posts people for fuck sake.
I think you're missing the point. The WWE caters to the marks, not us. To the marks, the title looks good. Marks couldn't give two shits about the last two IC Champs. They only care about the guy that it's on. By having it on what looks like a star, the fans may start caring again. If somebody reputable beats Flair, they'll think this guy his hot shit because he beat a good champ. Continue that process, maybe have Flair win it back once, then to the marks, they start remembering that the current champ beat a good former champ.

Fans cared when Orton was the champ. When he lost it, fans stopped caring until now. Why? Because a star is holding it.
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Old 11-24-2005, 01:51 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepsi Man
When did Triple H say he didn't care about the Intercontinental Title? Triple H is a multiple time Intercontinental Champ.
He hasn't said that he wants it, either. Do you honestly think that if the title wasn't on Flair that Triple H would be gunning for the IC title?
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Old 11-24-2005, 01:53 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepsi Man
When did Triple H say he didn't care about the Intercontinental Title? Triple H is a multiple time Intercontinental Champ.

He doesn't have to say it, but he said something like he couldn't believe his eyes when he saw Ric Flair settling for mediocrity-which was talking about Flair winning the IC title,so why would HHH want to settle for the title after he said that?He's world championship material anyway, he doesn't need it.
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Old 11-24-2005, 01:54 PM   #80
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He hasn't said that he wants it, either. Do you honestly think that if the title wasn't on Flair that Triple H would be gunning for the IC title?
He hasn't mentioned that he wants the WWE Title since his return either. I don't see where not completely absorbing yourself with winning a title means you don't care about it.
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