The Rolling Stone 500: The 500 Greatest Songs Ever Written

[loopydate]

Lyrics aren't everything to everyone. Honestly, I personally prefer good lyrics to a catchy hook, but SLTP was the "coming out" song for the grunge movement, which radically shifted the way the music industry was headed, from the over-production of the 1980s into the "garage" sound of the early '90s.

'Course, that was short-lived, since at the end of the decade, we went back to overproduction, but for anyone who was of a certain age from about 1991-1993, Nirvana was it.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by loopydate Although, to be fair, Floyd is better appreciated on an album-by-album, rather than song-by-song basis.

And yet, songs like Änother Brick in the Wal, pt 2," Are considered iconic.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by loopydate Lyrics aren't everything to everyone. Honestly, I personally prefer good lyrics to a catchy hook, but SLTP was the "coming out" song for the grunge movement, which radically shifted the way the music industry was headed, from the over-production of the 1980s into the "garage" sound of the early '90s. 'Course, that was short-lived, since at the end of the decade, we went back to overproduction, but for anyone who was of a certain age from about 1991-1993, Nirvana was it.

Wait, so you're justifying it's status on this list not on any quality of the music itself, but because it's a snapshot of cultural "revolution." So it's not even really about the song at all.

[FakeLaser]

Nirvana redefined a generation because music at that time was cheesy hair metal about staying up all night partying and strippers and crap like that. They killed off that kind of music by introducing a darker more depressed kind of music. Cobain wasn't a good guitarist and you could argue that he wasn't a very good songwriter (to which I would not agree, but he himself would probably agree with you). Cobain never set out to be an epic songwriter or anything, but there's no denying his originality.

The thing that was great about Nirvana is that they did whatever the hell they wanted to do. Cobain didn't want to be big so he wrote some of the most random lyrics and produced albums himself, but it was things like that which made Nirvana popular. It was new and different. It brought alternative rock and all of it's offsets, not just grunge, into the mainstream. It was anti-pop which became pop, the underground topping the charts.

[loopydate]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Wait, so you're justifying it's status on this list not on any quality of the music itself, but because it's a snapshot of cultural "revolution." So it's not even really about the song at all.

Exactly. I personally wouldn't put it in my top ten. It would probably struggle to make any list of mine (there are other Nirvana songs I'd rank above it, anyway). But I can understand why people would rank it so high.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by loopydate Exactly. I personally wouldn't put it in my top ten. It would probably struggle to make any list of mine (there are other Nirvana songs I'd rank above it, anyway). But I can understand why people would rank it so high.

But by your own admission, it has no place on this list.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by FakeRazor Nirvana redefined a generation because music at that time was cheesy hair metal about staying up all night partying and strippers and crap like that. They killed off that kind of music by introducing a darker more depressed kind of music. Cobain wasn't a good guitarist and you could argue that he wasn't a very good songwriter (to which I would not agree, but he himself would probably agree with you). Cobain never set out to be an epic songwriter or anything, but there's no denying his originality. The thing that was great about Nirvana is that they did whatever the hell they wanted to do. Cobain didn't want to be big so he wrote some of the most random lyrics and produced albums himself, but it was things like that which made Nirvana popular. It was new and different. It brought alternative rock and all of it's offsets, not just grunge, into the mainstream. It was anti-pop which became pop, the underground topping the charts.

Did you ONLY listen to what was on MTV or something?

Even Cobain-style music was nothing new. It wasn't new or different. Hell, Seattle Grunge is just Boston Post-Punk 5 years later.

[loopydate]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight But by your own admission, it has no place on this list.

I can't speak for the whatever musical experts they brought in and their philosphies, but purely in terms of great songwriting, yeah. It wasn't even one of Nirvana's five best songs, let alone one of the top ten of all-time.

[FakeLaser]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Did you ONLY listen to what was on MTV or something? Even Cobain-style music was nothing new. It wasn't new or different. Hell, Seattle Grunge is just Boston Post-Punk 5 years later.

Uhm, no, not really. When Nirvana released Nevermind I was 6 years old.

I was saying that Nirvana made alt-rock more mainstream, ending the hair metal/new wave 80s era. Seattle grunge was something different than what most people were used to hearing. Even if you want to compare it to Boston post-punk it doesn't change the fact that Seattle grunge killed hair metal and made alternative rock more popular. Every kind of music draws upon a previous inspiration.

[KingofOldSchool]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Also, I love the Who, but in terms of greatest songs ever written, My Generation is a shitty choice. Even if you're going for a big nameed song, "Who Are You" Or "Baba O'Reilley" are MUCH better choices, and everyone STILL knows them.

I you.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by FakeRazor Uhm, no, not really. When Nirvana released Nevermind I was 6 years old. I was saying that Nirvana made alt-rock more mainstream, ending the hair metal/new wave 80s era. Seattle grunge was something different than what most people were used to hearing. Even if you want to compare it to Boston post-punk it doesn't change the fact that Seattle grunge killed hair metal and made alternative rock more popular. Every kind of music draws upon a previous inspiration.

I know you were only six, but let's get some reality out in the open: By the time Nevermind came out, hair metal was already dying. That's like saying that Rome fell because the Americans were the dominant superpower. Seattle Grunge was used to fill the void, it was not because of "Grunge" that hair metal died.

[KingofOldSchool]

Originally Posted by loopydate 'Course, that was short-lived, since at the end of the decade, we went back to overproduction, but for anyone who was of a certain age from about 1991-1993, Nirvana was it.

Only because Kurt was a whiney pussy and decided to off himself right around Nirvana's peak thus proclaiming his suicide such a big "Tragedy."

Face it, if Eddie Vedder was as much of a pussy as Kurt was, then "Jeremy" would've been in the spot "Smells Like Teen Spirit" is at on this list.

And regardless if Kurt never had died, the band wouldn't be around today. They would've broken up between '96-'98. The only "grunge" band from the early 90's that's left is Pearl Jam, because they were truly the best band from the era. And I'm not saying that because they are my favorite band, but just look at the way they transcended over the years. Sure they may not make #1 in record sales anymore, but seriously...who cares? Record sales don't base a band...they still sell out arenas like last year they sold out shows all over Canada, Mexico, and South America.

Honestly, would Nirvana be doing that if Kurt was still around?

[Kane Knight]

Nirvana would job to the Yoko Factor, and they'd be forgeotten as another pop trend.

OTOH, Cobain's suicide did bolster Grunge, so other bands benefited by default. And it got rid of him, so that's a plus.

[Shaved Monkey]

How is it possible that there is only two Doors songs on this whole thing? If there was one band that was just as influential as anyone like Jimi Hendrix and etc. its the Doors.

Yet they put Light My Fire at 35 and The End at 328.

Who actually makes up these lists?

[Blitz]

Originally Posted by Shaved Munkey Who actually makes up these lists?

See my post on the previous page.

[loopydate]

And the same argument can be made about The Doors as was made about Nirvana.

Live fast, die young, and you're a perpetual music icon.

[Kane Knight]

The Doors are one of the most overrated bands period. Decent music, horribly propelled beyond that into some sort of undeserved legendry.

[Zen v.W.o.]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight But by your own admission, it has no place on this list.

My contention is that it most certainly does. A song isnt just about lyrics, it is how you choose to use the lyrics..the way you belt out the words, how you employ them to the tune of your musical instruments..SLTS has everything going for it at the time, and it still holds up now as a matter of fact, and it did knock down doors that other bands from the same era didnt do.

KOOS, Pearl Jam are great, but again, Nirvana didnt become such an iconic band due to his death. They were huge and epic while he was living.
And you cant go into if's or but's just because Kurt is not still alive. If Eddie had commited suicide or died at his peak, would you not be proclaiming that your fave band ever weren't epic and iconic? Yeah.

Also, as I recall things, Eddie wasnt such a strong man himself, considering you called Kurt a pussy. Kurt would run down Pearl Jam and Eddie would fold, and admit to his feelings being hurt. His vvideos would be trashed and Eddie would stop making videos. Eddie in a way back then was a follower, and it was after Kurts death that Eddie started to go the route of the "grunge" type of artist. I doubt Eddie is one to just talk and make praise of someone for nothing, and especially to a guy that once continually trashed his band, but on the night Kurt was found dead, Eddie to his live audience told everyone that none of us would be here if it had not been for Kurt, and the music Nirvana created.
I should say that none of them would be on such a big stage together as they were...Nirvana's music clearly helped music lovers learn and gain knowledge about plenty of other bands, and PJ was no exception.

This goes back to SLTS, if not for that song and the Nevermind album, perhaps the alternative revolution does not become as big as it did, and we are not permitted to suddenly have access to punk rock bands and underground acts on our radio stations and music tv channels. It broke down some doors, which other bands have had the chance to do before Nirvana, but didnt. Soundgarden. REM, AIC, Mudhoney, Mother Love Bone, and many others before Nirvana didnt do this.
Nirvana didnt become big through their label mass marketing them and pushing them super hard. That wasnt it at all. N irvana became big through word of mouth, kids passing around cassettes and realizing how kick ass this band was, and turning their friends on to something fresh and new and well deserving of the praise it would later recieve. That is dedication and hardcore love for a band right from the get-go. It then became an avalanche later on, and Nirvana actually deserved all that acclaim, unlike many bands now who reiceve it, or try to.

btw, speaking of Pearl Jam, they had two members in that band who at one point in time could have been considered in the same vein as other stadium pooch metal acts..Ament and Gossard. When the grunge movement hit, PJ were right in there at the right moment, right time. They got swallowed up in it and rolled with it. They became big because of what Niravana started. When Nirvana left, we could see PJ start declining, as the rest of alternative nation did. In a way, you can look at Nirvana leaving us early for the regression of many bands that became huge during those years. Perhaps if Nirvana were around longer, PJ would have been much more popular for a longer period of time then they were. They obviously still have their hardcore fans that still attend their shows, but so many left them after Vitalogy.

I think it says alot about a particular band(Nirvana) when they have such am imprint and impact on not just the genre of music they helped to make big, but the other bands that fit that style.

[Zen v.W.o.]

btw, the Rolling Stones are still going, yet the Beatles are still better than they are, so your theory about PJ being the sole band to keep trucking on therefore being the better band or the best as you called them is balls.