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Old 03-24-2006, 09:56 AM   #41
Kane Knight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVDmark
I can see what your saying about their zero tollerance policy but they have to draw a line somewhere. I hate the way they have a zero tollerance DRUG policy but the term drug describes everything from Crack, heroin, cocaine through to aspirin, caffeine, taurine (red bull if you didn't know). So what if RVD or anyone else smokes weed. The way I see it if you want to leap about and break yourself week in week out you have to be stoned off your tits surely. It also surprises me that America which has a strong religous belief disapproves of weed. If God does exist and he created cannabis (Im using this because it doesn't need to be produced like cocaine which is a plant but it has to be processed) then its like saying God is wrong. Whether cannabis causes schitzophrenia or not its still much less dangerous than alcohol. To kill yourself with weed you would have to smoke somewhere around your own body weight of the stuff and you would pass out way before you got that far. Alcohol - your friendly neighbourhood drug - can kill you if you drink too much just once. At least you have to smoke weed for a while before it is likely to have damaging effects.

Never trust the one's in power (except Triple A)
Duh. Of course you have to draw the line somewhere. Howabout with the illegal ones, for starters? Or maybe howabout the ones which have gotten wrestlers fired in the past? Or maybe even, since this was nothing more than a PR move, howabout barring the ones which are a perceived threat?

I mean, alcohol is legal, and they can't even do that 24 hours before a show. And you're saying that a banned substance should be where they draw the line? That's fucking retarded.
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Old 03-24-2006, 09:59 AM   #42
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Mr Helmesly, come to think of it, there wasnt a single drop of ACTUAL urine in your sample, just a mixture of substances.
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Old 03-24-2006, 11:58 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Ignorance, Chavo.

The "Gateway drug" effect happens because people who are inclined to try drugs will be inclined to try drugs. Smoking pot doesn't actually make you more likely to try other drugs.

To accept this is true is to accept a mentally flawed approach to studies, the same kind which "disproves" evolution. It also requires that you blatantly ignore that this is a behavioural issue, one which actually transcends pot (into other drugs, into caffeine) and even goes beyond drugs in general into actual human behaviour.
Since we're bringing the matter of behaviourism into this argument, the Gatewat theory makes perfect sense. Positive reinforcement from pleasant sensations brought about by trying lighter drugs will increase perceptions that drugs are good. Therefore, the individual is more inclined to try other, hardre drugs as their belief and attitude is that drugs produce positive sensations as indicated by their previous experiences. They will try to recreate the positive response experience earlier by imitating silimar actions. This is what Pavlov called operant conditioning.

You might be entitled to your beliefs, and that is what most unempirical science is all about anyway - contrasting perspectives and approaches. But do not call me ignorant as I have read, and at one point recreated, a number of well grounded psychological studies into this topic and found evidence, as well as my own collaborating results, to support the gateway theory.
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Old 03-24-2006, 12:43 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavo Classic
Since we're bringing the matter of behaviourism into this argument, the Gatewat theory makes perfect sense. Positive reinforcement from pleasant sensations brought about by trying lighter drugs will increase perceptions that drugs are good. Therefore, the individual is more inclined to try other, hardre drugs as their belief and attitude is that drugs produce positive sensations as indicated by their previous experiences. They will try to recreate the positive response experience earlier by imitating silimar actions. This is what Pavlov called operant conditioning.

You might be entitled to your beliefs, and that is what most unempirical science is all about anyway - contrasting perspectives and approaches. But do not call me ignorant as I have read, and at one point recreated, a number of well grounded psychological studies into this topic and found evidence, as well as my own collaborating results, to support the gateway theory.
Which brings me to today's word:

ignorance

You are ignorant. You are reading studies which blatantly ignore the context and try and treat the "gateway drug" argument as a viable, independent, phenomenon. You can read all the studies you want, but it's bullshit. Like the notion that a number of "studies" somehow legitimises Intelligent design, or "studies" proved you could not break the four minute mile, or "studies" showed negroes were inferior and incapable of complex duties.

Hell, you just justified it with an argument so generic as to make it a pointless statement in the first place. By your logic, ZOMFG! Caffeine and sex and jogging are gateway drugs! You can find evidence to corroborate any theory, like the flat earth, the notion that pot actually kills people, the deadly effects of saccarine, etc. You can find a LOT of them. on www.tinfoilhat.com

In fact, kids will try whatever drugs they can get first (Like tobacco) and marijuana is an excessively prevalent drug, establishing a social context like "hey, she was asking for it."

Problem is, they often times have flawed methodology. The predisposition is already there, and that is ignored, and that is called ignorance. Don't complain about being called ignorant, when you ignore crucial factors.

And that's the word.
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Old 03-24-2006, 02:16 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lock Jaw
The newest backstage rib will be getting a druggie's urine sample and switching it for one of the wrestlers. Bank on it.
Speaking of this and a little thing called "continuity", it's nice how WWE just totally forgot about the oh so important "results" from the HBK/piss segment.
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Old 03-24-2006, 02:18 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold HamNegger
Speaking of this and a little thing called "continuity", it's nice how WWE just totally forgot about the oh so important "results" from the HBK/piss segment.
I would just assume that the "doctor" didn't have enough time to get definitive results.
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Old 03-24-2006, 02:23 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126
I would just assume that the "doctor" didn't have enough time to get definitive results.
Well, he dipped the litmus paper in and according to Vince it was only going to take a couple seconds. (Never heard of that before...but this is wrestling we're talking about....)
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Old 03-24-2006, 02:25 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126
I would just assume that the "doctor" didn't have enough time to get definitive results.
Didn't he claim it'd take like 15 minutes?

My guess is that Vince is so angry that he'd rather fuck with Shawn than fire him.

Or they forgot it. It's been more than five minu...

...What was I saying?
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Old 03-24-2006, 02:27 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold HamNegger
Well, he dipped the litmus paper in and according to Vince it was only going to take a couple seconds. (Never heard of that before...but this is wrestling we're talking about....)
I don't think you can just pee on a stick and know what drugs are in your system. It's not a pregnancy test...
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Old 03-24-2006, 02:30 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126
I don't think you can just pee on a stick and know what drugs are in your system. It's not a pregnancy test...
Yeah, that's what made me crack up. Gotta love the "WWE Reality."
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Old 03-24-2006, 02:55 PM   #51
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Kane Knight, I only used cannabis as an example and that is a legal drug when prescribed as a pain killer(In the UK anyway im not sure about the US). Given wrestlers could legitimately ask for pain killers I think if they allow ANY drugs they should be allowed cannabis It has pain killing effects whereas steroids are obviously for 'buffing up'. I could be wrong but wasn't the limit for alcohol 12 hours previous?



On a side note litmus paper can only detect acid/alkali and any test for drugs of that nature would need to be done with lab equipment or improvised lab equipment.
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Old 03-24-2006, 02:59 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126
I don't think you can just pee on a stick and know what drugs are in your system. It's not a pregnancy test...
It's only WWE, though.

Besides, I'm sure Vince knew exactly what to test for...
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Old 03-24-2006, 03:05 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVDmark
Kane Knight, I only used cannabis as an example and that is a legal drug when prescribed as a pain killer(In the UK anyway im not sure about the US). Given wrestlers could legitimately ask for pain killers I think if they allow ANY drugs they should be allowed cannabis It has pain killing effects whereas steroids are obviously for 'buffing up'. I could be wrong but wasn't the limit for alcohol 12 hours previous?
I don't know the laws 100%, but I don't think Marijuana is not legally sold as a pain killer in the US, only for eye problems, but I'm probably wrong (I know it's legal in only some states for some things). I believe doctors in the US can only perscribe it in pill form as well. Not that it has anything to do with the painkilling effect...

Besides, most if not all of the wrestlers who smoke it would (probably) not have it legally anyway.

As for steroids, there are steroids that would help people with injuries and the such (even ones used for "buffing up"), but those are exempt from the policy anyway (I believe)...
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Old 03-24-2006, 03:11 PM   #54
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In Pill form!? I didn't think they'd bother well I've learned my new thing for the day.

Anyway does anybody know exactly what they do test for? And im talking about medical names not just steroids/illegal drugs.
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Old 03-24-2006, 03:12 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVDmark
Kane Knight, I only used cannabis as an example and that is a legal drug when prescribed as a pain killer(In the UK anyway im not sure about the US). Given wrestlers could legitimately ask for pain killers I think if they allow ANY drugs they should be allowed cannabis It has pain killing effects whereas steroids are obviously for 'buffing up'. I could be wrong but wasn't the limit for alcohol 12 hours previous?



On a side note litmus paper can only detect acid/alkali and any test for drugs of that nature would need to be done with lab equipment or improvised lab equipment.
Try getting your facts straight first, then.

In the US, there is no such thing as medicinal marijuana. Even in the couple of states that have legalised such uses, it's still a federal crime.

This is a US-based company which operates primarily in the US with wrestlers who perform, reside in, and/or tour the US extensively. Saying "well, over here in the UK, it's legal" does not change the fact that marijuana is very illegal where it's pertinent to the corporation involved.

If ANY drugs should be barred, it's the illegal ones. Steroids and pot are both illegal (And unlike steroids, which are a controlled substance, Mary Jane is banned. That means that, technically, pot is more illegal).

Note I've already made a defense for steroids and marijuana. That, however, does not change the fact that they're illegal, and does not change the hypocrisy in WWE's policies here.

Fuck, I'm all for wrestlers juicing. The FDA has found nothing to substantiate the claims made regarding the danger of steroids. There are only two ways for stereoids to kill you, generally (That's not to say some deaths don't occur, but the same's true with fucking ASPIRIN): One, you abuse them. And it takes a lot to kill you this way, the dangers are overinflated. Two, you mix them with other drugs. Cocaine is a good example, and say...Wasn't Eddie on both? Steroids interact poorly with a lot of illegal drugs. Wrestlers aren't dropping specifically because of steroids, but because a lot of thema re also hooked on painkillers or abusing drugs.

And frankly, consenting adults who want to juice for non-competitive reasons (In other words, not for real sports, etc.)? I say let 'em, personally. Pot? I'm an advocate for consenting adults picking their own poisons. I'm funny like that.

But that doesn't change the fact that they're i-fucking-legal. Nor does it change the hypocrisy of the ZERO tolerance policy.
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Old 03-24-2006, 03:14 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVDmark
In Pill form!? I didn't think they'd bother well I've learned my new thing for the day.

Anyway does anybody know exactly what they do test for? And im talking about medical names not just steroids/illegal drugs.
http://www.ewrestlingnews.com/headlines/143088616.shtml

That's the entire policy.
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Old 03-28-2006, 09:46 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Which brings me to today's word:

ignorance

You are ignorant. You are reading studies which blatantly ignore the context and try and treat the "gateway drug" argument as a viable, independent, phenomenon. You can read all the studies you want, but it's bullshit. Like the notion that a number of "studies" somehow legitimises Intelligent design, or "studies" proved you could not break the four minute mile, or "studies" showed negroes were inferior and incapable of complex duties.

Hell, you just justified it with an argument so generic as to make it a pointless statement in the first place. By your logic, ZOMFG! Caffeine and sex and jogging are gateway drugs! You can find evidence to corroborate any theory, like the flat earth, the notion that pot actually kills people, the deadly effects of saccarine, etc. You can find a LOT of them. on www.tinfoilhat.com

In fact, kids will try whatever drugs they can get first (Like tobacco) and marijuana is an excessively prevalent drug, establishing a social context like "hey, she was asking for it."

Problem is, they often times have flawed methodology. The predisposition is already there, and that is ignored, and that is called ignorance. Don't complain about being called ignorant, when you ignore crucial factors.

And that's the word.

Oh right, so why dont we all allow Kane Knight to decide the future of psychology, and hell, why not science all together?

Yes, you have to take these studies into context and critical evaluate what is written. For example, who funded the study? There's no point reading about a study which focuses on the success of a new drug and then making your mind up that this drug is effective, only to find that the pharmaceutical company responsible for production of said drug provided the funding. Being aware and able to analyse what is presented critically and without bias is one of the first lessons all scientists learn.

So, yeh, lets do away with studies. What can we do instead? Why not just speculate on science? Lets not bother with quantative or even qualitative studies and just have a forum where everyone can put in their own two cents. Hopefully we'll all hit the same note eventually and progress from there. You see, without these "flawed" studies there would be scientific advances ever made again. And fair play, most of these studies eventually faulter and fall, but this is what progression is all about. No one is expected to belive Freudian psychology anymore, at least since the 1950s, but science builds on previous beliefs and establish more effective explanations.

So at the moment, contemporary work has suggested yes... the gateway theory can be applied as a explanation for deviant behaviour and drug use. Unless you want to expand on why you don't think this is the case, then by all means do. I'll be looking forward to future editions of your work as published in the American Journal of Psychology.
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