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Old 11-21-2006, 12:21 AM   #41
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What im trying to say is that TNA relys too much on former big two stars to draw attention, and fans. And with paying an obscence amount of money for their services, instead of having more younger healthy, youthful guys like Daniels, Sabin, Williams, Styles.

They rely on excuse me for this. Broken, has-beens, or retirees, such as Angle, and Sting for example, Sting was pretty old when WCW folded and he is still wrestling, and from reports I have read about Angle and issues with his health is seems an unwise descision to put too much faith and money into such a risky venture.
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Old 11-21-2006, 12:24 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingofOldSchool
It's not the wrestlers fault, it's the people running the show.
But the regular viewrs watching have no idea about that.

It's the wrestlers and their names is gonna draw them in.
Last edited by McLegend; 11-21-2006 at 12:26 AM.
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Old 11-21-2006, 12:24 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingofOldSchool
It's not the wrestlers fault, it's the people running the show.
Thats what Im saying, It is the people who run the show, who are putting people who are/were in the spotlight for years, and many newer people thier time to shine during thier prime years.
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Old 11-21-2006, 12:26 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen Angel
What im trying to say is that TNA relys too much on former big two stars to draw attention, and fans. And with paying an obscence amount of money for their services, instead of having more younger healthy, youthful guys like Daniels, Sabin, Williams, Styles.

They rely on excuse me for this. Broken, has-beens, or retirees, such as Angle, and Sting for example, Sting was pretty old when WCW folded and he is still wrestling, and from reports I have read about Angle and issues with his health is seems an unwise descision to put too much faith and money into such a risky venture.
Broken down has beens get you to the top.
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Old 11-21-2006, 12:30 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by legend
But the regular viewrs watching have no idea about that.

It's the wrestlers and their names is gonna draw them in.
Yeah cause the name Kurt Angle is bringing in the fans.
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Old 11-21-2006, 12:32 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legend
Broken down has beens get you to the top.
So Ric Flair single handedly brought WWE back up to the 5's in the ratings?
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Old 11-21-2006, 12:35 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by KingofOldSchool
So Ric Flair single handedly brought WWE back up to the 5's in the ratings?
No see WWE is already at the top. I was thinking Hogan with WCW. C'mon now.

Now the counter point to that is "Well WCW went out of business." See WCW did not develop talent once they got to the top, but see now TNA might be learning from WCW mistakes.

Get more viewers then have Joe go over Angle when people are actually watching so it actually means something.
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Old 11-21-2006, 12:42 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legend
No see WWE is already at the top. I was thinking Hogan with WCW. C'mon now.
Hulk Hogan, himself, never drew in WCW.

It was the nWo angle that did them business they did.

See when Hogan debuted in WCW, nothing changed, they didn't set the World on fire. Hogan was just ass stale and boring as he was in the WWF. Then WCW did the whole Outsider angle which kick started the nWo. It wasn't Hulk Hogan that got WCW huge, it was the nWo angle.
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Old 11-21-2006, 12:43 AM   #49
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You make a fairly good point, but don't forget, TNA is more or less the alternative to WWE, and as the alternative, you shouldn't be watching something that should be called "Legends Of Wrestling".
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Old 11-21-2006, 12:45 AM   #50
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Oh and how did WWE get to the top? They didn't use old timers at the two times they hit it big.

Back in the 80's it wasn't Bruno Sammartino that kick started the Rock N' Wrestling era, it was a fresh Hulk Hogan.

In the late 90's it wasn't Roddy Piper that kick started the Attitude era, it was a fresh Steve Austin.
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Old 11-21-2006, 12:45 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingofOldSchool
Hulk Hogan, himself, never drew in WCW.

It was the nWo angle that did them business they did.

See when Hogan debuted in WCW, nothing changed, they didn't set the World on fire. Hogan was just ass stale and boring as he was in the WWF. Then WCW did the whole Outsider angle which kick started the nWo. It wasn't Hulk Hogan that got WCW huge, it was the nWo angle.
It was clearly Hogan turning heel that did it. Hogan is the main reason why WCW and NWO caught on fire

Say if it was NWA legend Sting who turned heel and joined the NWO it would have fallen on deaf ears.
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Old 11-21-2006, 12:48 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingofOldSchool
Oh and how did WWE get to the top? They didn't use old timers at the two times they hit it big.

Back in the 80's it wasn't Bruno Sammartino that kick started the Rock N' Wrestling era, it was a fresh Hulk Hogan.

In the late 90's it wasn't Roddy Piper that kick started the Attitude era, it was a fresh Steve Austin.
I see you failed to mention it hitting anything big in the new millenium. So I thought that I would point out that it was...he did...John...Lesn...ahh nevermind I see your point.
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Old 11-21-2006, 12:49 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legend
It was clearly Hogan turning heel that did it. Hogan is the main reason why WCW and NWO caught on fire

Say if it was NWA legend Sting who turned heel and joined the NWO it would have fallen on deaf ears.
No, Hogan's turn didn't set the World on fire. The ratings didn't start getting hot until the nWo really got going.

If it was Hogan that caused the whole WCW winning the ratings war for 82 straight weeks, then the amount of nWo merchandise that was flying off the shelves would not compare to the amount of Hollywood Hogan merchandise that was being sold.

People were drawn to this rebellious faction who went against the grain and did what they wanted to do. THAT is why fans paid money to see them, NOT because Hulk Hogan was apart of it.
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Old 11-21-2006, 12:51 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen Angel
I see you failed to mention it hitting anything big in the new millenium. So I thought that I would point out that it was...he did...John...Lesn...ahh nevermind I see your point.
Cause nothing big has yet to hit.

You said that old timers get you to the top.

I said WWE never had old timers get them to the top, which you said that they were already on top.

So I basically gave you the two times they got huge, which ironically involved no over the hill guys leading the way.
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Old 11-21-2006, 12:53 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingofOldSchool
Oh and how did WWE get to the top? They didn't use old timers at the two times they hit it big.

Back in the 80's it wasn't Bruno Sammartino that kick started the Rock N' Wrestling era, it was a fresh Hulk Hogan.

In the late 90's it wasn't Roddy Piper that kick started the Attitude era, it was a fresh Steve Austin.
Yes this is true but WWE ratings were already in the mids 2's pre Attiutde Era, and wrestling was becomming popular and the wrestling audience was bigger then ever.

WWE also had the advantage of being WWE where is everybody knew the WWE existed and knew they were on Monday night. They had history on their side and an already somewhat large fan base. TNA does not have that.

Same thing kinda of applies to Hogan in the 80's. WWE was the main stage and already had the fan base. So it was way easier to make new talent because the had the majority of wrestling fans watching your product.
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Old 11-21-2006, 12:57 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingofOldSchool
No, Hogan's turn didn't set the World on fire. The ratings didn't start getting hot until the nWo really got going.

If it was Hogan that caused the whole WCW winning the ratings war for 82 straight weeks, then the amount of nWo merchandise that was flying off the shelves would not compare to the amount of Hollywood Hogan merchandise that was being sold.

People were drawn to this rebellious faction who went against the grain and did what they wanted to do. THAT is why fans paid money to see them, NOT because Hulk Hogan was apart of it.
Yes the reason why people were drawn into though was because Hogan was in it.

People tuned in to see Hulk Hogan playing the bad guy. Now if you would want to say people stayed watching WCW because of all the things you said then I argee with that.
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Old 11-21-2006, 01:01 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingofOldSchool
Cause nothing big has yet to hit.

You said that old timers get you to the top.

I said WWE never had old timers get them to the top, which you said that they were already on top.

So I basically gave you the two times they got huge, which ironically involved no over the hill guys leading the way.
But they are already on the top. They hold the majority of the Market.

They didn't have to take the general population's viewing audience like WCW did and TNA is trying to do.
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Old 11-21-2006, 01:14 AM   #58
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Not trying to argue, rather debating, but you are showing what many consider to be the dawn of modern wrestling is the mid-80's to early 90's is when it took the world by storm. There where hardly no wrestlers before Hulk Hogan that stood out, WWF hyped him, and made him thier poster boy, giving him the fame, and publicity to show off thier product, and in doing so WWF, became known more worldwide. And that carried them to the top, Hogan helped to make them famous and well known, and they just had to tie up some loose ends by getting more talent, and the deal was sealed.

Also you likely noticed that, while not permanently, but periodically Piper and Hogan are STILL needed (apparently) as a crowd draw?
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Old 11-21-2006, 01:24 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingofOldSchool
Yeah cause the name Kurt Angle is bringing in the fans.
Didn't see this post

I would rather take my chances with Kurt Angle who is name that every wrestling fan knows who has watched wrestling in the past 6.5 years then Samoa Joe who absoutley no one has heard of.
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Old 11-21-2006, 01:26 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legend
Didn't see this post

I would rather take my chances with Kurt Angle who is name that every wrestling fan knows who has watched wrestling in the past 6.5 years then Samoa Joe who absoutley no one has heard of.
Joe is gonna kill you.
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Old 11-21-2006, 02:13 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen Angel
Joe is gonna bore you to death.
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Old 11-21-2006, 02:16 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen Angel
Joe is going to you to death.
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Old 11-21-2006, 04:29 AM   #63
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I thought it was awesome. Best match of the year.
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Old 11-21-2006, 04:53 AM   #64
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Joe is gonna Lita you to death?
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Old 11-21-2006, 05:02 AM   #65
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Sting vs. Abyss (with Abyss)

Abyss was with Abyss? How did that work out then?(i know it was obviously a mistake but still...)

Anyway I agree with the opinion that Joe shouldn't have tapped. It seems as though ever since Russo started booking things in TNA have gone downhill.
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Old 11-21-2006, 08:31 AM   #66
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TNA is by far the best wrestling company around today.

Which is why I have like zero intrest in the wrestling industry for the last few months
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Old 11-21-2006, 10:37 AM   #67
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Joe and Angle could have 27 amazing matches, one every night of the month and they'll all still be terrible. Matches are NOTHING without some god-damned proper booking. Angle beat Joe. Joe looks weak now, and they way they did it at the end, Angle now knows he's weak. They need to either have Joe break Angle's fucking neck, or just move on to something else and save as much face as possible.
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Old 11-21-2006, 10:55 AM   #68
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someone made a great point earlier in this thread

tna never looks long term, that explains the angle going clean over joe
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Old 11-21-2006, 11:22 AM   #69
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I think it was discussed already, infact I'm certain because I was involved, but it's worth saying again that the only way Angle/Joe could have ended without pissing someone off real bad would have been double DQ or Double Countout or something double. Since either one going over the other would have done something bad.

The whole Sting/Abyss thing startles me, first off I'm almost glad they finally changed a title owner on a DQ since that is a TNA rule and it's been neglected forever. But everything else about it pisses me off. Also, why Abyss? Someone needs to explain why Abyss is even near the NWA title. What is up with Russo trying to turn Sting evil? He tried in WCW with some crazy story line I can barely remember and it didn't work there. I hope this is just a "desperate measures" thing where Sting has to use hardcore shit to get to Abyss instead or actually being Heel Sting.
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Old 11-21-2006, 12:06 PM   #70
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LMAO, remember how people said TNA would fuck up the Angle/Joe thing?

Didn't even take two months.

I hope Lance Storm didn't watch that, because if he did, he might have had an aneurysm.
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Old 11-21-2006, 12:22 PM   #71
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Quote:
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I hope Lance Storm didn't watch that, because if he did, he might have had an aneurysm.
I think I might have actually had one for him.
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Old 11-21-2006, 02:07 PM   #72
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I hope Lance Storm didn't watch that, because if he did, he might have had an aneurysm.
I cannot wait for his response though.
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Old 11-21-2006, 04:40 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Optimist
What is up with Russo trying to turn Sting evil? He tried in WCW with some crazy story line I can barely remember and it didn't work there.
It was when he turned Goldberg heel and started the "New Blood".
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Old 11-21-2006, 04:41 PM   #74
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I guess I'm the only one that liked this PPV. Russo's trying to shake things up a little bit because we're tired of the same old shit. I know I am.
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Old 11-21-2006, 06:23 PM   #75
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The DQ rule is especially retarded since almost every match involves wrestler A hitting wrestler B with a chair or some other foreign object and the ref ALWAYS over looks it and lets the match continue.
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Old 11-21-2006, 06:46 PM   #76
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You don't know? Or was that rhetorical? If you don't know, Vince Russo does it now.
I didn't know...
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Old 11-21-2006, 07:04 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Optimist
The whole Sting/Abyss thing startles me, first off I'm almost glad they finally changed a title owner on a DQ since that is a TNA rule and it's been neglected forever.
Well if it was neglected for so long, then why the fuck did they all of a sudden decide to bring it back?
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Old 11-21-2006, 07:13 PM   #78
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Joe is gonna whore you to death?
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Old 11-22-2006, 04:11 PM   #79
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does anybody know what the theme tune was for genesis?
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Old 11-22-2006, 10:49 PM   #80
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I think I liked Sting for a grand total of 30 minutes, EVER. Most of the time my Second favorite Wrestler was whoever Sting's opponent at the time was.

That said, even I realize that Heel Sting = Blasphemy. It's like... Bret Hart and Shawn Micheals talking about old times over a cup of hot cocoa and laughing about how silly Montreal was. ... or like... Hulk Hogan putting someone over in such a way that the guy he loses to actually benefits. ... or like... K-Fed actually being talented.
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