"DX Member, Shawn Michaels"

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think Funky Fly got it right first: money is the issue here. The WWE wants to sell DX clothing, and they want the DVD to sell. It's funny, because they could do it anyway. I mean, does Shawn Michaels wrestling as "DX Member, Shawn Michaels" make you want to purchase the DVD?

I think building up Shawn Michaels, and as NeaderCarl said, putting on a good show would be the real way to make money. I'd personally rather see him become the old HBK, only using the DX theme for special occasions. No Way Out should have been "Sexy Boy", the SmackDown! before seemed to be fitting of the DX theme. The WWE could get creative and have him use both themes.

They could also do the right thing and turn DX into a real stable. When Triple H took over leadership of DX, it lead to interesting angles. A lot of people are just going to roll their eyes at my suggestion, because I am a huge mark of the guys in it, but Shawn Michaels, Val Venis, Paul London, Brian Kendrick and Ashley Massaro would make a pretty top-notch DX. Val Venis is a fucking porn star. He was based off the "Ravishing" Rick Rude character, who was in DX for a while. Venis as the mid-card singles wrestler makes sense. Paul London and Brian Kendrick were trained in Michaels' school, are young up-and-comers, and being members of DX could get them over. With them comes Ashley Massaro who is the random T&A, and she's appearing in Playboy.

If you don't want Val Venis because he's "too Alienoidy", just have Idol Stevens or Rob Conway get the role. Yes, both are Alienoidy, but I can't think of anyone better at this stage.

So yeah, I think they should either have Shawn Michaels turn "Sexy Boy", or have him start up another incarnation of DX. Oh, and he won't beat Cena. Shawn Michaels is just there to carry Cena to a good match. Cena is still undefeated at WrestleMania, and there is money there somewhere. I think the best we can hope for is a Cena heel turn. HBK could win the WWE Championship closer to Summerslam, when Triple H is able to return, turn heel ("Triple H, why did you hit your fellow DX member with a sledgehammer upon your return?" "Why? Because I felt like it!") and challenge HBK heading into Summerslam.

[NeanderCarl]

And as for Michaels... WWE can do a masterful job of building a character up, or establishing a new twist on an old character, when they're fully behind it. Look at how, over the years, they've made everyone forget about Rocky Maivia, Sparky Plugg, The Sultan, Justin Hawk Bradshaw, The Ringmaster - they are masters of reinvention, when the creative juices are fully flowing.

As Stickman says, Shawn Michaels (as in MAIN EVENTER Shawn Michaels) has a character: 'The Heartbreak Kid/Showstopper/Main Event/Icon That Can Still Go'. For a little while there, they went for some nostalgia and some cheap pops, and reinvented Shawn and Trips as the new DX: cheesy, fun-loving, skit-partaking, innuendo-spouting, merchandise-shilling upper mid-card novelty attractions.

Which was fine, because the main event scene was getting some fresh blood injected into it - for better or worse - and Cena was getting the big push.

But now that WrestleMania is rolling around, WWE decides to put Cena in the ring with one of the aforementioned mid-card novelty tag team act. Which, again, is fine because either one of those two is over as a solo act, and has an established record in the title picture. But rather than push Michaels in his image of the established solo main eventer of 'The Showstopper' they keep him in this midcard novelty role he has been playing.

A good analogy would be Booker T. Back towards the end of WCW's run, the powers that b had troubl finding something for the Book to do. He was ready for a run at the top of the card, but needed something to occupy him until they were ready to put the belt on him. They put him in the comical M.I.A. stable, under the novelty gimmick of G.I. Bro. It was a bit of fun, fans bought into it and knew it was Booker T underneath the paint.... but when the time finally came for that big title win, it wasn't G.I. Bro who pinned Jeff Jarrett for the belt; WCW bookers, dumb as they were, had the sense to know that, as amusing as midcard comedy act G.I. Bro was, the fans would only accept 'Booker T' as the champion of the company. Bro was midcard, Booker was main event... same person or not.

Same reason you never saw Dude Love wandering around with the WWF Championship, even though Mankind did. Same reason Big Show has held many a championship title, and 'Showkishi' hasn't.

Trouble with Shawn is that he doesn't use seperate pseudonyms. The lines between fantasy and reality are blurred with this guy. It's not his birth name, but he IS Shawn Michaels. So it's not as easy to just point out. But "DX Member, Shawn Michaels" is no "Showstopper, Shawn Michaels" from a character standpoint and that will be evident come WrestleMania.

After all, who do you think will be in the ring destroying another up-and-coming superstar at SummerSlam this year? Hulk Hogan? Or Mister America? Same person, different personas, but we all know who the draw is.

[NeanderCarl]

Ask yourself this: if things had gone differently on January 8, 2007, would we be about to see John Cena vs "DX Member, Triple H" at WrestleMania? Or would it be John Cena vs 'The Game'?

I know which one I believe.

[Vastardikai]

Micheals is going over in the end, anyway, so who cares?

[NeanderCarl]

There's no way he has strong enough momentum for WWE to put him over their golden boy just yet. If he does get the belt this year, it's just to keep it warm for his big nosed French buddy.

[Vastardikai]

True, but you forget one thing: It's Shawn Fucking Micheals. I promise you, he's already planting the seeds in Vince's mind that Cena isn't a strong enough draw. Hence, why most of the PPVs with Cena as Champion on Raw have been promoting something related to Micheals (DX, the Micheals-Hogan thing, etc.).

Cena, believe it or not, has NEVER been the top draw on Raw. It's been D-X or Micheals.

[Jeritron]

thats not true. Michaels hasn't wanted the belt because of his schedule and what not. If Shawn wins the belt its something he's doing for the company rather than something the company's doing for him.

As for Cena not being the top draw on raw and Michaels being so..why do you come to that conclusion? Are you just saying it because its what you feel or can you back it up?

[Vastardikai]

Much of Cena-Jericho was overshadowed by the Micheals-Hogan deal.

At the end of it, Cena did get a brief run at the top of the card while HBK and Flair did their little dance with Masters and Carlito. This was around the time, if you remember, that the crowds started turning on Cena in an extremely Hostile Manner.

Around Rumble time, as Cena was fighting to regain his title from Edge, Micheals-McMahon was starting up. This was about the only time that Cena was actually cheered during this point in time.

Near the end of this we have More time dedicated to Micheals-McMahon and less time dedicated to Cena's second run. It only really gets equal when they throw Trips into the mix with Cena. Wrestlemania, the crowd was hostile towards Cena, and the beginnings of "OMG-Crotch Chop! D-X Reunion Fap!Fap!Fap!".

Upon the reunion of D-X, they have been the main attraction of Raw, not Cena. Why were the house show series called the "D-X Reunion Tour"? And, it's more or less been all about D-X ever since.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I completely agree that DX has overshadowed Cena (a case of the lesser of two evils, in my opinion), but I would be willing to place money on John Cena retaining. He's the WWE's golden boy, making Triple H tap out last year at WrestleMania. HBK is just there to carry Cena to a potentially classic match (by status only), and do the job to further put Cena over as "the future!". The WWE Champion really should be the present, though, and shouldn't need justifying...but that is another arguement for another day.

[Pepsi Man]

Originally Posted by Alienoid06 Shawn Michaels, Val Venis, Paul London, Brian Kendrick and Ashley Massaro would make a pretty top-notch DX.

(Hey, I didn't roll my eyes at it.)

Come on, though...Val Venis would make an okay lackey, but the rest of them? No.

As for the whole "one half of a tag team" thing and how it's moreso that than at WrestleMania XIV, the thing that's been bothering me about that is that the only OFFICIAL members at the time of WrestleMania XIX were only Chyna (non wrestler), Triple H, and Shawn Michaels. You could also argue that special referee (yet still non wrestler) Mike Tyson was officially DX, but he truthfully was still there only because of his celebrity status.

I do agree with this though.

Originally Posted by Alienoid06 The WWE Champion really should be the present, though, and shouldn't need justifying...

I do agree with you on that. That's what the Intercontinental Title is for, although most of your wished-for champions...

------------------------------------------------------

As for Michaels and him being "the top draw of Raw" instead of Cena the whole time, that's simply not true...not for Cena's whole time on Raw, anyway.

Unforgiven '05 had Cena leading against Kurt Angle. Taboo Tuesday '05 had Cena leading, going into that Triple Threat, and even though it was against Angle and Michaels, Michaels was the one of the three that "had to be voted in by the fans".

Meh, I don't feel like writing in this thread anymore, or thinking about this, so I won't at the moment. Just whoever was trying to say that on Raw, it was like Michaels > Cena as far as relevance paid, think about that.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by NeanderCarl Thing with the fake Kane (don't you love the way these topics veer off on such random tangents??) that I was most specifically thinking of when I posted my last comment was the very first time, when we saw him clutching his head in the corridor whilst hearing the voices in his head. Later incidents, such as the voices over the PA, made a bit more sense - you could just about come up with an explanation - but the first week or two of build up was dire.

You didn't need to "make up" an explanation for the later stuff. For the first week or two, it was no worse, considering most larger facilities for entertainment have PA throughout the building.

It's no worse than when FK was controlling the lights later one.

[RP]

[NeanderCarl]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight You didn't need to "make up" an explanation for the later stuff. For the first week or two, it was no worse, considering most larger facilities for entertainment have PA throughout the building. It's no worse than when FK was controlling the lights later one.

The entire Kane/Undertaker saga is quite off-turning to me, as a wrestling fan. The backstory, the characters, the supernatural powers... it's all laughable. The pair of them are enduring and watchable in-ring performers, and you can't argue with success I suppose, but it's not what I want to see in a wrestling program.

Even during the Attitude era, you had all of the "realism" ruined by the crucifixtion/embalming/dead parents etc shit.

[Kane Knight]

You know what? Back then, it was worth tuning that shit out though.

You're absolutely right, the more "real" they got, the worse Undertaker looked.

Just like now, actually.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Pepsi Man (Hey, I didn't roll my eyes at it.) Come on, though...Val Venis would make an okay lackey, but the rest of them? No.

Ashley Massaro would make a fine Chyna/Tori. She's showing off her tits and cooch in Playboy...she's one of their favourite women and she does somewhat have personality. I don't see how she wouldn't fit. Paul London and Brian Kendrick are young, have the whole "Hooliganz" thing about them, and were trained by Shawn Michaels. If you are going to get any two guys and just shove them in DX, they do actually make sense.

[Kane Knight]

Venis could have possibly fit in with the old DX, because they were juvenile and fun. The neutered DX? I'm not sure the Big Valboski would fit in with the Christian morals of DX-ifixion.

London and Kendrick don't even strike me as remotely close to a DX attitude in either generation. Punk would be a good choice. Much as I dislike him, he'd be better. Cena could fit, if for no other reason then they're a tag team and Cena could do some cute little anti-authority deal.

I don't know who esle would fit. It's limited.

[NeanderCarl]

I think the DX name is more of a stigma now than a rub. If they add any more members to the current DX, it should be former members/associates returning, rather than burdoning potential future stars with being labelled as HHH/Shawn's baggage handler, or putting them in a position where they will be easy scapegoats for the two politicking veterans whenever a match falls apart/segment doesn't get over/ratings drop.

[NeanderCarl]

Originally Posted by jeritron5000 I was rofl at Booker inserting himself into the movie, and his spoken review of it. I'm sorry if it was cheesy trash and a shameless plug, it was just too damn absurd and hilarious for me not to laugh.

Just occurred to me that that was also a blatant rip-off of Disco Inferno inserting himself in Konnan's music video back in WCW.

[Vastardikai]

Originally Posted by Pepsi Man :As for Michaels and him being "the top draw of Raw" instead of Cena the whole time, that's simply not true...not for Cena's whole time on Raw, anyway. Unforgiven '05 had Cena leading against Kurt Angle. Taboo Tuesday '05 had Cena leading, going into that Triple Threat, and even though it was against Angle and Michaels, Michaels was the one of the three that "had to be voted in by the fans". Meh, I don't feel like writing in this thread anymore, or thinking about this, so I won't at the moment. Just whoever was trying to say that on Raw, it was like Michaels > Cena as far as relevance paid, think about that.

I was the poor bum trying to say that Micheals is the big draw on Raw, not Cena. In retrospect, I exaggerated about Cena never having the top billing, as he did for a brief while between Micheals-Hogan and Micheals-McMahon. It was a dark time for Cena as World Champion, too.

Taboo Tuesday, he had to be voted in, but it was almost a given. Between the three choices, there was really no doubt. Angle-Micheals was a hot feud from WM XXI, and they jelled together well. Who where the fans gonna pick: Shawn Micheals, given the above. Kane, who just came back from filming "See No Evil" (read, hadn't done much). Or Big Show, who also hadn't really done much on Raw. They weren't gonna pick Show or Kane.

Of course, trying to make Kurt Angle, who was at that point really Unturnable (The fans were booing a Retard. a RETARD. during his feud with Eugene), a heel for Cena was a dumb idea to begin with.

My main point that Micheals is a bigger draw than Cena right now stills stands. And I wouldn't doubt Micheals wanting one more run on top, so sorry, Cena. His only real hope is to turn heel.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by NeanderCarl I think the DX name is more of a stigma now than a rub. If they add any more members to the current DX, it should be former members/associates returning, rather than burdoning potential future stars with being labelled as HHH/Shawn's baggage handler, or putting them in a position where they will be easy scapegoats for the two politicking veterans whenever a match falls apart/segment doesn't get over/ratings drop.

I agree. Any argument I make is more an intellectual excercise. Not exactly excited by the idea...

[Pepsi Man]

Originally Posted by Alienoid06 Ashley Massaro would make a fine Chyna/Tori. She's showing off her tits and cooch in Playboy...she's one of their favourite women and she does somewhat have personality. I don't see how she wouldn't fit. Paul London and Brian Kendrick are young, have the whole "Hooliganz" thing about them, and were trained by Shawn Michaels. If you are going to get any two guys and just shove them in DX, they do actually make sense.

Ashley =/= Chyna. Chyna was the "9th Wonder of the World" and billed as Hunter's bodyguard. Tori? Sure, but you remember that was in the rehashed DX towards the end of '99/beginning of 2000, and that she was brought in and put with X-Pac, right?

[NeanderCarl]

As far as London/Kendrick going into DX because they "fit"... same was said about The Hardyz in 1998 (when they were still plaid-wearing gay boys). Never happened. "Lower" guys weaken the team. At least, in the eyes of the "players", anyway. Michaels may be receptive to the idea simply because they are his trainees, but Trips?

[srnrew]

Anyone think its possible say HBK wins the title at Mania, then decides to recruit couple of younger members for DX. Then by the time HHH returns and wants back in the "new, younger DX" they all gang up on him setting up "heel" Michaels vs. "face" HHH.