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Old 03-26-2007, 12:53 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry
That's the thing though, I don't know what I said that was argumentive.
You can have a debate with out arguing. TOVO and I have gone a few rounds on things around here (though VERY few as we agree 99.9999999991% of the time.) Thats' why we come here ain't it? Healthy debate?
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Old 03-26-2007, 12:53 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
The primary problem is that there's more sense in pushing the guys who are currently involved with the industry, or are on good enough terms to themselves help promote it.

Would it be great if they did more legends who weren't necessarily on good terms/whatever? Yeah, but it's also harder to work with someone not on aimiable terms even when you're not prone to make them look like raving loonies.

This is true. Though they seem to work and promote with other wrestlers who are not in any way involved with current or future plans. They just mention them and show them as part of their legacy.

Plus Ultimate Warrior is the furthest thing from a legend, the furthest thing from a great entertainer or worker, and the furthest thing from anything deserving of any recognition fromt he company or the industry in any way shape or form. YET he gets a dvd set (regardless of its negativity, a set nonetheless) and is merchandised.
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Old 03-26-2007, 12:54 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor
You can have a debate with out arguing. TOVO and I have gone a few rounds on things around here (though VERY few as we agree 99.9999999991% of the time.) Thats' why come here ain't it? Healthy debate?

Absolutely. I'm loving this discussion. I completely agree that Flair is the bigger legend and an active part of the company though.

But while we're at it, lets talk about how Warrior has a DVD set and merchandising and Savage doesn't...talk about personal issues getting in the way.
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Old 03-26-2007, 12:55 AM   #44
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I think they were just trying to piss Warrior off tbh.
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Old 03-26-2007, 12:56 AM   #45
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Warrior made a bigger splash, and burnt out in a much more flashy way than Savage did. Burning out is interesting, Just ask Behind The Music producers...
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Old 03-26-2007, 12:57 AM   #46
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All this talk makes me want to snap into a goddamn Slim Jim
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Old 03-26-2007, 12:57 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The One
Warrior made a bigger splash, and burnt out in a much more flashy way than Savage did. Burning out is interesting, Just ask Behind The Music producers...
Very true.
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Old 03-26-2007, 12:59 AM   #48
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Savage...had a great career...kind of fell off once Elizabeth was gone...became an announcer...got bored...went to WCW...was involved with nWo...got bored...kind of faded away...

Oh yeah and he Snapped into a lot of Slim Jims.

Not exactly as fun as Warrior's inlogical rants, holding up PPV main events, quiting/fired three times from WWE in a single decade, and being involved with one of the worst matches not only of WCW's history, but indeed one of the worst matches of any promotion anywhere. His story is sexy. It's hot. It's full of huge egos, bigger pay days, and a much more unstable (and therefore more interesting) real life person.
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Old 03-26-2007, 01:00 AM   #49
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That's why Warrior has a DVD and Savage doesn't.
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Old 03-26-2007, 01:00 AM   #50
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Savage's career took a turn for the worse once Warrior caught on actually. He went from the second biggest star to the third, and was accordingly jobbed out ROYALLY to Warrior at WM7.
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Old 03-26-2007, 01:01 AM   #51
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Great match though.
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Old 03-26-2007, 01:03 AM   #52
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This is true fan support:


http://www.wrestlinggonewrong.com/vi..._machoman.html
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Old 03-26-2007, 01:07 AM   #53
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I wonder if the kid in that video was thrown in jail for the night
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Old 03-26-2007, 01:11 AM   #54
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Anyway, Ric Flair came out to the ring in November of 2001 on Raw, and you could almost hear a pin drop. Not only was his confidence then in the shitter, but the fans barely cared about him.

Since HHH creamed his pants for the guy, however, the WWE has gone out of there way to put it in everyones heads this past half-decade that Flair is the best wrestler of all time. He's certainly one of the best, but I wonder if and when Savage will also get the credit he's due.
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Old 03-26-2007, 01:23 AM   #55
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I had heard that when Ric Flair was unhappy with Bischoff and his situation in WCW, Vince was thinking of bringing him over into the WWF. However Triple H was one of the main people who said, there's no way you can have an old timer come in and beat guys like me, Austin and Rock.

Personally, I wouldn't bring HHH into this debate in any capacity. Not only does he not deserve to be, but I highly doubt any of WWEs dealings with the legacy of Ric Flair have been Hunter's doing.

HHH just strikes me as a guy who has many faces. I think his main concern is whats best for him and his situation at that given time (in a business where thats probably the right mindset), which is why his remarks regarding Foley seem a little strange when you read the note he wrote personally to Mick Foley on the day of his retirement.
You hear the same thing from Bret and others who've worked with him over the years.

But that has little to do with this discussion and is pretty much a weak argument. Yes Ric Flair got next to no reaction which was strange, but I don't think its part of some mass conspiracy to give him bigger pops. He's simply just a legend.
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Old 03-26-2007, 01:45 AM   #56
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I doubt there is any validity to the Triple H bullshit claims from Red Hot Scott. As far as Ric Flair getting a silent reception, did ou guys watch him WCW during the boom? They almost ruined his legacy. Seriously. Bischoff is why most of the boom babies cant respect Flair, he fuck the Naitch at every turn. So when he shows up in the WWE, after years of being treated like a has been (despite out performing Savage/Hogan/Luger/and the like on a regular basis,) the crowd acted as if it wasn't a big deal. Why would they do this? Because it wasn't. The last they knew that's what he was.

Dunno why the WWE would spend so much time going on about his legacy though...makes no sense...
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Old 03-26-2007, 01:50 AM   #57
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Yea Bischoff really buried him in the eyes of new fans. He claimed he wanted him to represent counter culture of the old school, but he clearly buried him in favor of the nWo, which he ultimately did with everybody.
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Old 03-26-2007, 02:11 PM   #58
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Quote:
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Woah, woah...Hold on there. I'd say he has a fair claim on Eminem.
My DAD has a fair claim on Eminem. My dad is at least a black man.
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Old 03-26-2007, 02:13 PM   #59
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Eminem's not black?
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Old 03-26-2007, 02:13 PM   #60
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If Savage had retired instead of going to WCW, and never turned into a deluded wannabe rap star, people today would weep that he had too short a career. The fact that he was anywhere close to over while dressed in bright neon suits with streamers and matching cowboy hats is a testiment to how great he was. In his prime, and used properly, he could control a crowd like a hand puppet, and he was a very entertaining commentator despite being only slightly more comprehendable than James Brown.
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Old 03-26-2007, 02:14 PM   #61
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Quote:
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Eminem's not black?
Quiet, me and my people are paying him a lot of money to pass himself off as a cracker!
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Old 03-26-2007, 02:26 PM   #62
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Is this to get back at the white folk for not getting 40 acres and a mule?
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Old 03-26-2007, 02:39 PM   #63
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No, it's to get back at them for Vanilla Ice.
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Old 03-26-2007, 02:43 PM   #64
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Ooh. Fair Enough.
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Old 03-26-2007, 02:52 PM   #65
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Who wants to help me spring Savage from the clank and let him loose on WWE tv?
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Old 03-26-2007, 02:54 PM   #66
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Is it too late to have Savage vs Khali at WM23?
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Old 03-26-2007, 03:01 PM   #67
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A Lethal Dose of Macho Man?
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Old 03-26-2007, 03:06 PM   #68
Theo Dious
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Theo Dious got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Theo Dious got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Theo Dious got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Theo Dious got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Theo Dious got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Theo Dious got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Theo Dious got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Theo Dious got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Theo Dious got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Theo Dious got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Theo Dious got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Theo Dious got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
As long as Savage brings the guy in the Slim Jim costume in his corner, I'll mark out for his return.
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Old 03-26-2007, 03:19 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor
Austin was just a flash in the pan man. 4 years on top does a legend's legend not make. No matter how successful those years were.
By the way, I totally disagree with this. Steve Austin is by every right and measure an legend's legend. It's easy to say that Austin was a flash in the pan, but if you think of his slow climb up the industry ladder, a ladder mind you which was still admidst a chaotic turmoil of change and confusion off of the heels of the death of terratory and the birth of national programming, he is worthy of being noted as one of the top ten most influential wrestlers in history. He was truly the first and one could argue the only wrestler to be born on the national stage, and attain the highest of glory without a national company plugging him into a machine. Plus, when it comes to just simple fact of drawing in fans, I'm sorry, but there isn't a single man on the planet who can boast Austin's drawing ability. None. Not Flair, not Hogan, not Andre, not anybody.

Steve Austin is a legend's legend. That's my opinion anyway...
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Old 03-26-2007, 03:22 PM   #70
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Theo Dious got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Theo Dious got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Theo Dious got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Theo Dious got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Theo Dious got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Theo Dious got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Theo Dious got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Theo Dious got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Theo Dious got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Theo Dious got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Theo Dious got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Theo Dious got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
Additionally, back in the days of Hogan, there were 4 PPV's a year and a handful of SNMEs. Austin in 2001 appeared at (correct me if I'm wrong) 13 PPV's and a Raw AND Smackdown just about every week. I think it fair to say that in that year, Austin produced more product than Hogan did in 3 years. Something that needs to be taken into account when you claim that Hogan > Austin because Hogan was "on top longer."
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Old 03-26-2007, 03:23 PM   #71
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Steve Austin is a huge legend. I don't care what anyone says, and it will be that way years from now. So what if he had 4 years on the top. It was the best 4 years on the top. He drew like an artist on speed. Seriously, the guys 4 years were worth 10 or 15 of any other legend. Not to mention he pretty much can be credited with saving his promotion, and changing the industry.

He'll also be remembered for doezens of classic moments, and many many great matches.

Plus it's not like the 4 years on the top were a flash in the pan and he or fans decided that was enough and didn't want any more. He would have been on top for years and years just like most. The only difference is he was injury ridden and peaked late/retired early. It's a shame, but can you really think of any other wrestler who made such an impact and became such a legend over so short of a time.
Austin didn't fizzle out or retire early, Austin was taken away and his legend lives on.
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