Hulk Hogan's Godlike offense

[Zeeboe]

Originally Posted by DarthTedious Bullshit. He does it for the one thing that he can't buy, his ego. Look at Hogan's patterns; he leaves when fans stop cheering him, and if he comes back and they bring the house down with "one more match" chants, he comes back, not to make them happy, but for the godlike thrills it gives him.

He told you that huh? He's semi-retired from wrestling...you guys should be happy...I recall back in 2002 smarks were saying that Hogan should wrestle for once a year and thought he should not wrestle full-time and he's doing that now. The fans love him, he gets a big pop, he gets what he wants, the fans get what they want, he wrestles once a year and everyone is happy but the smarks but then again you guys are never happy.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Originally Posted by Val Venis He told you that huh? He's semi-retired from wrestling...you guys should be happy...I recall back in 2002 smarks were saying that Hogan should wrestle for once a year and thought he should not wrestle full-time and he's doing that now. The fans love him, he gets a big pop, he gets what he wants, the fans get what they want, he wrestles once a year and everyone is happy but the smarks but then again you guys are never happy.

That’s not the point of the Hogan debate. More and more smarks, as you call them, are hating on Hogan these days because he refuses to believe that he’s been left behind in the late ’70s - mid ’80s, and as such he feels he must continue to put on shows “for the fans” (love the quote, Terry, keep it up ), when the fact of the matter is that he needs to step out of the ring once and for all. Sure, Vince McMahon and Ric Flair still wrestle, but that’s because they take care of their bodies, unlike Hogan, who as you said, only wrestles once a year. He needs to stop doing reality TV and wrestling altogether, and spend some quality time with his friends and family doing the things that he really loves to do in retirement (aside from wrestling and reality TV), while picking up a nice amount of dough until he croaks, then all sides will be happy, and the fans will finally be able to let the wrestling history books tell the story of how great in and out of the ring Hogan really was. End of story.

[Zeeboe]

But the thing is, people love Hulk Hogan and they are still wanting to see him in the entertainment world and Hogan loves to entertain so therefore he's going to stick around. I suspect no matter how old he is, he'll always be around as long as he is breathing air and as long as people want to see him.

[.44 Magdalene]

Nobody wants to see him, though.


I mean, yeah, people are gonna cheer when he randomly shows up, because everybody gets pops when they've been gone a while. Vince McMahon is never a face... but if he disappears for a while, he'll get return pops. HHH is almost never a face, but he's guaranteed a return pop. Fact is, nobody in the industry's begging for Hogan to return. You don't hear any We Want Hogan chants. There's no demand for the old motherfucker. He stays just long enough to get those return pops, misinterpret them as a genuine fanbase, and then slink back into his cave.

Ask any current, actual, modern, not-out-of-date-retarded fan who they'd love to see wrestle, and I'd slap money on the table that Hulk Hogan is not who they'll respond with.

[.44 Magdalene]

I mean, shit, Jeff Jarret got huge pops when he returned. Are you going to tell me people love Jeff Jarret and are dying to see him continue to entertain the masses?


Fuck no, Jeff Jarret's mediocre, and everybody'll be tired of him again in a month or two... if that.

[IC Champion]

Critic is 100% right.

[Zeeboe]

Originally Posted by The Critic Nobody wants to see him, though. I mean, yeah, people are gonna cheer when he randomly shows up, because everybody gets pops when they've been gone a while. Vince McMahon is never a face... but if he disappears for a while, he'll get return pops. HHH is almost never a face, but he's guaranteed a return pop. Fact is, nobody in the industry's begging for Hogan to return. You don't hear any We Want Hogan chants. There's no demand for the old motherfucker. He stays just long enough to get those return pops, misinterpret them as a genuine fanbase, and then slink back into his cave. Ask any current, actual, modern, not-out-of-date-retarded fan who they'd love to see wrestle, and I'd slap money on the table that Hulk Hogan is not who they'll respond with.

Oh, so people who have been watching wrestling for a long time opinions don't count in your world? Only the new-school fans have any credibility?

I suspect in your world...anyone who disagrees with you has no credibility and anyone who does agree with you has credibility. That the way it work?

I can see why you would not like Hulk Hogan since you clearly never had the honor to see him wrestle when he was in his prime....I admit, a lot of the reason why I love him now is for nostalgia but why is that a bad thing?

The difference between Hulk Hogan and those other guys you named is that when Hogan comes to the ring...he gets ten minute standing ovations.

I agree that Hogan should not wrestle full-time. There is no need. He's done everything that can be done in wrestling. But I don't see the harm in him showing up every now and then for a little nostalgia. It makes the people happy and that is what it is all about. And if you don't believe me when I say people don't love Hulk Hogan, just watch Wrestlemania 18 or the 2005 Hall of Fame...just to name..

I just think Hulk Hogan deserves more respect from you guys and you should stop saying people don't want to see him, that he hasn't done anything for wrestling and all these other cheesy jokes you guys make about him.

Unlike you guys, I have actual proof that proves that people still love Hulk Hogan and that he has done a lot for the wrestling business and I've posted the proof many times here and you guys just hate that don't you? Which is why you make personal attacks with me because you can't stand the fact that you're wrong. Well get over it and live with it.

Maybe you guys just need a little reminder:

The fans are cheering louder for Hulk Hogan in this...I hear the pop for the Warrior but anyone with good hearing can hear that the response for Hogan was louder....hell, Gorilla Monsoon says over and over again about the people cheering for the Warrior to try and get him over....the way he says "It's deafing" for the Warrior's response sounds so fake....when he says it for Hogan, it sounds more real cause it WAS real.....he sure as hell didn't have to tell people at home that the people where cheering for Hogan...we could all hear it loud and clear....and there were even more Hogan signs then there were Warrior signs...the fans are even chanting "HOGAN" at the start.......and after the Warrior shoved Hogan...you could barely hear anything...but when Hogan shoved the Warrior back....the people went insane.....and everyone was watching Hulk leave after the match instead of the Warrior....so all that nonsense about everyone cheering for the Warrior is just Hogan hater's dreaming again.



Really...watch and listen carefully to the points in the match that I pointed out and then come on here and tell me your thoughts....

I think that is the problem though...many of you must be kids or teens and never saw Hulk in his prime so now that I posted that clip, some of you can see just a little bit of Hulk when he was in his prime.

And try to keep in mind that the WWF is those days was not like how it was today...and yes, I said WWF...that is what it was called at one time....and during the WWF days...wrestling was aimed towards kids...and the Hulk Hogan character was a great character for children to cheer and love.

Yes, all of us kids are adults now but our inner-child will always give Hulk Hogan the respect that he deserves because he provided a lot of great childhood memories for many of us.

Then 12 years later in the same place......all those kids in the crowd from the first clip are adults now.........and it's Wrestlemania 18...the biggest event of the year....the Rock...the top babyface in the WWE at the time...the guy who had a big movie coming out...the guy who some people have the nerve is in the same icon status as Hulk Hogan...was....well...here, just look for yourself.



I love how JR tries to say that the crowd was cheering for The Rock too....

Even the little Warriors joined forces with the Hulkamanics that night.

[.44 Magdalene]

Originally Posted by Val Venis Oh, so people who have been watching wrestling for a long time opinions don't count in your world? Only the new-school fans have any credibility? I suspect in your world...anyone who disagrees with you has no credibility and anyone who does agree with you has credibility. That the way it work?

As someone who's watched wrestling for a long time myself, you've just completely contradicted yourself. I'm going to ignore the obvious strawman here, and just point out that first you said only newschool fans are credible with me... but then only people who agree with me--oldschool fans--have credibility. Okay. Again, I'll dismiss the really blatant strawman. Realize that most oldschool fans are either

A.) Not fans anymore because the product has degraded.
B.) Smarks, who we've already come to terms with not liking Hogan.
C.) Even the few marks I know that are old fans think Hogan's too old to be wrestling anymore, and barely acknowledge what he's done in comparison to what new guys are doing... because that's what the industry is about. NEW FUCKING PEOPLE. I'm sure they're not good fans or some bullshit, righ? Because they don't agree with you?

Originally Posted by Val Venis I can see why you would not like Hulk Hogan since you clearly never had the honor to see him wrestle when he was in his prime....I admit, a lot of the reason why I love him now is for nostalgia but why is that a bad thing? The difference between Hulk Hogan and those other guys you named is that when Hogan comes to the ring...he gets ten minute standing ovations.

You already fail. I started watching during the Hulkamania period. I had a Hulk doll and a Hulkamania sleeping bag. Hulk made me a wrestling fan. Just because he was good once, and put asses in the seats once, DOESN'T FUCKING MEAN HE STILL DOES. I don't want to see him wrestle now. I don't know a single damn person, mark, smark, or casual fan, who really gives a shit if Hulk comes back now. Everyone either's calloused toward him, or actually dislike his returns. You're not speaking for any majority, no matter how much you try and pit yourself as the representative of oldschool non-smarks everywhere.

His "ten minute ovations" aren't proof that fans want him to keep wrestling. LOLOLOLOL, ten minute standing ovations. Okay. Whatever keeps your argument afloat, champ. Hulk's moments last ten minutes because he refuses to leave the goddamn ring. He just keeps doing the stupid poses and the stupid ear thing until the camera cuts away, and that's whenever the stagehands feel like it. I'm sure on HHH's return, he could pose and spit water for ten minutes and get the same fucking reaction. Shut the fuck up, you ignorant twit.

Originally Posted by Val Venis I agree that Hogan should not wrestle full-time. There is no need. He's done everything that can be done in wrestling. But I don't see the harm in him showing up every now and then for a little nostalgia. It makes the people happy and that is what it is all about. And if you don't believe me when I say people don't love Hulk Hogan, just watch Wrestlemania 18 or the 2005 Hall of Fame...just to name..

Jeff Jarret gets pops when he's gone for a while. HHH gets pops when he's gone for a while. Vince gets pops when he's gone for a while. Hogan gets pops when he's gone for a while. You're reiterating points I've already blown out of the water. There is harm in him showing up every now and again if it takes away from the overall show, or even slightly hinders the progress of the business.

Hogan showing up does nothing long term. Jobbing out current members of the active roster? That does long term damage. Hogan returns more often to fuck something up than he does to make those temporary, one-show "ten minute ovations" you brag about. Guess what? Those ten minute ovations don't put anybody over. Those ten minutes ovations aren't fixing jack shit, and if he's getting that ovation after going over Randy Orton or Shawn or some other actual consistent full time wrestler... well, maybe you can figure this one the fuck out for yourself, though I'm sure one ten minute nostalgia pose-a-thon means more to you than the future of the company.

Originally Posted by Val Venis I just think Hulk Hogan deserves more respect from you guys and you should stop saying people don't want to see him, that he hasn't done anything for wrestling and all these other cheesy jokes you guys make about him.

No, he's done shit for wrestling. Doesn't mean people want to see him now, though. They did back in the day, when he was in good shape and could put on a good show. Now he's stale, he's old, his lack of talent is terribly blatant in the face of later generations of updated and restylized wrestling, and his ego is becoming more and more apparent to even the more casual fans. People wanted to see him once. They don't now.

Again, there's no fucking demand for Hogan. Nobody asks for his return. Nobody does We Want Hogan chants. Just because you want to see him doesn't mean the rest of the population does. There's no reason to believe anyone actually desires a Hogan return, except the big pops... which any returning superstar gets. My original point verbatim. Fuck, why is it that the one argument I made is killing all your points? Oh, wait. You're repeating yourself. That's why.

Originally Posted by Val Venis Unlike you guys, I have actual proof that proves that people still love Hulk Hogan and that he has done a lot for the wrestling business and I've posted the proof many times here and you guys just hate that don't you? Which is why you make personal attacks with me because you can't stand the fact that you're wrong. Well get over it and live with it.

What proof? The pops? OH WAIT, LOL.

Originally Posted by Val Venis Maybe you guys just need a little reminder: ... Really...watch and listen carefully to the points in the match that I pointed out and then come on here and tell me your thoughts....

It's already been explained to you (several times I think) that Hogan hogged intentionally hogged the spotlight during that entire affair, rather than try to put the Warrior over as intended... because he's an egotistical bastard who can't bare to have anyone look better than him. You're going to tell me Hogan knew it was for the good of the business, though, right? Don't bother, you're not making a believer out of anyone. It's been gone over hundreds and hundreds of times by much more eloquent people than you, people who weren't terribly blinded by their absolute favoritism for one of the parties involved. Nobody around here likes Warrior, either, but it's pretty obvious what went down there. Keep your trap shut on this one, please. You'll embarrass yourself. I can guarantee you won't make a point anyone listens to.

Originally Posted by Val Venis I think that is the problem though...many of you must be kids or teens and never saw Hulk in his prime so now that I posted that clip, some of you can see just a little bit of Hulk when he was in his prime. And try to keep in mind that the WWF is those days was not like how it was today...and yes, I said WWF...that is what it was called at one time....and during the WWF days...wrestling was aimed towards kids...and the Hulk Hogan character was a great character for children to cheer and love. Yes, all of us kids are adults now but our inner-child will always give Hulk Hogan the respect that he deserves because he provided a lot of great childhood memories for many of us.

Gone over it. I liked him as a kid. He was good as a kid. He's boring and sloppy now and needs to stop wrestling. I'd respect him if he'd know when to fucking quit, and realize that he's only hindering the business overall.

Originally Posted by Val Venis Then 12 years later in the same place......all those kids in the crowd from the first clip are adults now.........and it's Wrestlemania 18...the biggest event of the year....the Rock...the top babyface in the WWE at the time...the guy who had a big movie coming out...the guy who some people have the nerve is in the same icon status as Hulk Hogan...was....well...here, just look for yourself. I love how JR tries to say that the crowd was cheering for The Rock too....

People did cheer for the Rock. Some of the real wrestling fans on this board were at the fucking show. Go ahead and ask 'em. You probably won't, I'm sure the prospect of definitive answers and actual recounts of events would get in the way of your blind fellating of the Hulkster. Guess what, bath turd? The Rock is as big as Hogan. There's kids already--little wrestling fans--who know the Rock like the back of their hand, but never have and never will see a Hogan match.

Years from now, Hogan'll just be a name. He'll be a distant, forgotten memory, and people will still remember the Rock as an icon. Years after that, Rock'll probably be forgotten, too, and Hogan'll be lost even more in the shuffle of new and hopefully better wrestlers. Hogan's not the end-all be-all icon of professional wrestling. Others can, have, and will replace him... and I hope he dies just a little fucking sooner so maybe you'll see that.

God, you're a fucking idiot. Hogan yesterday is not Hogan today. Hogan used to be good. He's not now. You can respect what he's done all you want, but I don't have to respect him as a person because he's a cock. His constant returns and re-retirings are doing little dents here and there in the industry--causing small amounts of harm, and no amounts of real good. Deal with it, dipshit. Hogan doesn't do anything good for the WWE anymore... not in the long term. Stop being such a goddamn tool.

[Super V]

I've never seen such a bitching over a wrestler before. A wrestler that makes an appearance about once a year. Hogan could do whatever he wants IMO. He neither hurts nor helps the business and has earned it.

[EazyMack]

Originally Posted by The One I rather enjoyed the last little note there at the end; "Hogan, either learn to job, or ind a new one."

Yeah, that was cute.

Since he's only the biggest legend ever in the business.

Nevermind the previous 30 years... NOW it's time to find a new job! Because someone on the internet said so.

[Theo Dious]

Originally Posted by Val Venis He told you that huh?

Tell me this, if Hogan "does it for the fans," then why did he refuse to consider working WM23 unless he was equal to or greater than the highest paid guy on the show?

[Zeeboe]

Hey, if Hogan was wrestling full-time...I would agree with you. BUT the man only competes once a year. What's so terrible about that? And since he and Vince had yet another falling out, they may not be doing business together again for a while.

And just because you don't know people who don't care about Hogan anymore doesn't prove a thing. All it proves is that you don't know a lot of people. People I speak with don't care if Hogan shows up every once and a while.

And the people you mentioned...McMahon, Triple H, etc...those guys would tell you that you are a fool for thinking Hogan is not a legend in the business.

WAIT A SECOND! Hogan didn't put the Warrior over? Watch that match again...

1. When Warrior and Hogan lock-up and Warrior shoves Hogan, Hogan comes close to falling on his ass and Hogan looks surprised and scared.

2. When Hogan shoves Warrior, he struggles and it takes him a minute longer to shove him and Warrior doesn't even go back that far back. And Warrior doesn't look scared or shocked at all. He lifts his arm up and challenges Hogan to a test of strength battle.

3. When they are doing the test of strength thing...who wins first? The Warrior.....and Hogan barely gets back up and barely gets back at the Warrior and the Warrior gets back up quicker then Hogan did.

Hogan put the Warrior over big time in that match. Now I just pointed out three examples of Hogan making the Warrior look good. Now can you point out to me parts in that match where Hogan was hogging the spotlight from the Warrior?

Yes, I am sure many Hogan haters have watched the match and in their blind eyes, Hogan didn't do a thing for the Warrior even though it's clear to everyone else that he did. While Hogan haters live in a made up world and make crap up, the rest of us have actual proof. And the proof is in the Hogan/Warrior match.

So all that smark crap about people loving the Warrior more was proven wrong by yours truly and that crap about Hogan not putting The Warrior over was also proven to be wrong by yours truly.

And if you don't believe me, all you have to do is watch the match and look at the parts I pointed out.

My whole argument here is this: The man deserves respect and credit for what he has done for wrestling and I don't think people here give him any of that.

I'm not on here thinking Hogan needs to have a title run or wrestle full-time. I'm on here saying that him wrestling every now and then isn't going to kill anyone. It makes the people happy and fans like me actually watch Raw or order the PPV's when Hogan shows up so Hogan gets his money, Vince gets his and we fans get entertainment and nostalgia.

Wrestling today sucks anyway so rather Hogan is on the card or not, the young guys are gonna suck either way. Hell, they could all learn something from Hogan like how to cut a decent promo.

Originally Posted by DarthTedious Tell me this, if Hogan "does it for the fans," then why did he refuse to consider working WM23 unless he was equal to or greater than the highest paid guy on the show?

Hulk Hogan is a very big name and he gets the mainstream interested in wrestling so he deserves a good pay day too.

[Theo Dious]

Originally Posted by Val Venis Hulk Hogan is a very big name and he gets the mainstream interested in wrestling so he deserves a good pay day too.

Yes but how does his refusal to do the show without the guaranteed highest payday reconcile with "doing it for the fans?"

Oh that's right, it doesn't.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Also, Mr. Venis, perhaps you’d like to explain to all of us poor stupid little pathetic lemmings who hinge on every retarded word you tell us about your view of Hogan, why the man has demanded creative control of some of his matches (and not just in one promotion, but at least 2 that I know of, that being WCW and WWE), just to pick up a cheap win, or as a cheap way to win a major championship?

[Zeeboe]

Originally Posted by DAMN iNATOR Also, Mr. Venis, perhaps you’d like to explain to all of us poor stupid little pathetic lemmings who hinge on every retarded word you tell us about your view of Hogan, why the man has demanded creative control of some of his matches (and not just in one promotion, but at least 2 that I know of, that being WCW and WWE), just to pick up a cheap win, or as a cheap way to win a major championship?

Because he doesn't want his character to look weak. I read Hogan's book for the first time ever recently and he talks about money a lot. I know he loves money.

Nice guys finish last and Hogan proves that. Ric Flair is mid-carding on WWE now and Hogan refused to do things that he feels would ruin his character.

In regards of the people, I've talked to fans both online and offline who have met Hulk Hogan and they say he is one of the nicest wrestlers they have ever met and I've never once heard about him being rude to a person who wanted his autograph and/or wanted a picture with him.

No human being is truly good or bad. We all have shades of gray and while Hogan does care a lot about the green, he clearly does have some affection for his fan base since after all, we're the ones who made him what he is.

[Theo Dious]

Originally Posted by Val Venis No human being is truly good or bad.

Fact:
Genghis Khan liked puppies.

Fact:
Ghandi would fly into a violent rage any time someone called him "slim."

Fact:
Hitler often said that dancing barefoot in daisies made him feel "as free as a little girl."

Fact:
Nelson Mandela never tips his waitresses.

Fact:
Pontius Pilate often helped little old ladies across crowded streets.

Fact:
George Washington was a chronic masturbator.

Damn, guess you're right, VV.

[Theo Dious]

Originally Posted by Val Venis Nice guys finish last and Hogan proves that. Ric Flair is mid-carding on WWE now and Hogan refused to do things that he feels would ruin his character.

And even though Ric Flair has become a road-raging, get-off-my-lawn-you-kids-screaming shadow of his former self, he still commands more respect than Hogan among real wrestling fans, and will be remembered as an asset to younger wrestlers, instead of some kind of metaphorical scrotal fungus.

[Zeeboe]

Originally Posted by DarthTedious And even though Ric Flair has become a road-raging, get-off-my-lawn-you-kids-screaming shadow of his former self, he still commands more respect than Hogan among real wrestling fans, and will be remembered as an asset to younger wrestlers, instead of some kind of metaphorical scrotal fungus.

Perhaps in the world of smarks, Flair will be respected. But to everyone else, he will be viewed as a man who refused to hang his boots up and move on. He'll be viewed as a man who stuck around longer then he should have and to the younger fanbase who never saw him in his prime, they will probably always think of him as an old, over-the hill has-been who always lost matches.

Pretty much all the crap you guys say about Hogan should...and will one day be said about Ric Flair...hell, it already is.

And I don't know who you think you are but I don't believe you are in the position to define what a "real" wrestling fan is.

Hulk Hogan will be remembered and respected and forever viewed as one of the greatest of all time and not like it or not...and I know you guys just HATE this...but in the mainstream world...in the world of marks and casual fans.... Hulk Hogan will be consider the Babe Ruth of wrestling and be given credit for making wrestling as big a sit is today...because he didn't stick around too long like Flair and he made sure his character always looked like a hero. That's doing pretty smart business.

[Theo Dious]

Originally Posted by Val Venis ...because he didn't stick around too long

Hey, everyone else, does this guy have ANY credibility after this remark?

Seriously, man, you're practically admitting at this point that Hogan has made himself look good at the expense of those around him, never cared about anything but his own image and his bank account, and does nothing that does not benefit him. A far cry from your insistence that he only works "for the fans" now. We agree now on what Hogan is; but you like him for it, and I don't. Fine. But stop insisting that the rest of us need to suck his dick when we'd sooner give up our first-born sons.

[Zeeboe]

Compared to Hogan, Flair has stuck around a lot longer. He's 58 and wrestles full-time....Hogan is 53 and wrestles once or twice a year.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by DarthTedious Fact: Genghis Khan liked puppies. Fact: Ghandi would fly into a violent rage any time someone called him "slim." Fact: Hitler often said that dancing barefoot in daisies made him feel "as free as a little girl." Fact: Nelson Mandela never tips his waitresses. Fact: Pontius Pilate often helped little old ladies across crowded streets. Fact: George Washington was a chronic masturbator. Damn, guess you're right, VV.

Ghandi was a racist and possibly a war criminal.

But that only cmompares to Hogan because wrestling is so epic.