RIP Brian Pillman - Ten Years Later - Page 2

**Loose Cannon** · 10-07-2007, 12:36 PM

Kane Knight: I here what your saying, but Matthew up there mentions Yellow Dog. Yellow Dog is so minor in all that Pillman has done in his career and that's his case for how people remember Pillman. Yellow dog and Dress. It's like he's trying to pick apart Pillman by mentioning two of the worst angles he was a part of. Not even a mention of Hart Foundation, XXX Files, Gun Incident...which is what most fans, like Xero said, would remember Pillman by.

**Loose Cannon** · 10-07-2007, 12:49 PM

and I mentioned all those other moments to him because he mentioned Yellow Dog, which is around the same time, when all those moments happened. So if he's got to at least know about them or chooses not to

**Kane Knight** · 10-07-2007, 12:49 PM

Say what you will, but the dress bit stuck in a lot of people's heads at the time.

People tend to remember the worst, they tend to remember the most notable, and that was arguably both in terms of what garners attention.

**Destor** · 10-07-2007, 12:51 PM

I don't like saying this, but KK's got a strong point.

I feel dirty.

**Zen v.W.o.** · 10-07-2007, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon

lol wow. are you just being an idiot or do you seriusly mean that? if this is serious and your not just trying to get a rouse out of people in this thread, then you really are dumb. Furnas and Lafon and Brian Pillman. wow.

He's being a jackass basically.

Pillman at least agreed to do what was asked of him. That also says alot.

As for his Furnas and Lafon comment, none of them knocked down any doors. Pillman brought the attitude into the company. In fact, they signed Pillman clearly with the intention in mind that he was going to help pave the road to where they wanted to be.

Great on the mic, great in the ring, great overall. Death means shit in this case. You know why? Because the people who knew of him and who are interested in quality are going to buy his dvd. Those fucktards who enjoy Batista and Shannon Moore today arent going to care.

It's like a sports athlete who has so much potential and skill dying early or injuring himself sometime in his career..he had the stats while around and the potential to get better, but it was all ended. Thus, the HOF numbers and acheivements arent all there, but when you look back upon him, you go, that guy was fucking great while he was playing(Pavel Bure, for example, in hockey).

Then again he's simply reading up on Pillman and some of the parts of his career and making uninformed comments about them. He stated he barely saw the man...so ya know, that says it all.

**hb2k** · 10-07-2007, 01:00 PM

First saw Pillman in the Hollywood Blondes during the series with Steamboat and Douglas and thought he was the most annoying dick I'd ever seen. Him and Austin were such good heels that if I saw a team like them now, I'd love them instantly, but back then, I wanted to see them get shitkicked.

Pillman was great. As for the "nothing without a death" point, hey - if Kurt Cobain meant little to music, his death wouldn't have meant much anyway. Lead singer of Drowning Pool dies, no immortal legacy just because of a death. The end of Pillman's life is a really sad story, how he became the talk of the business and a red hot commodity, but things just not going his way, ultimately spinning downhill for good, throwing it to the curb. Unbelieveable character that I wish we could have seen more of.

And if anybody has a FULL copy of the Brian Pillman WWF Contract Signing, complete with his flip-out that they'd like to sell, please PM me...

**Zen v.W.o.** · 10-07-2007, 01:04 PM

Yeah that contract signing was immense. Still recall it to this day. I have an audio file of it.

But that's another thing. He was fucking intelligent. The dude fooled everyone. He worked everybody. The boys. He worked Bischoff so well he managed to get himself released from his contract so that he could sign his most lucrative contract he's ever had to that point. He became the biggest free agent in the business up to that time, and the most sought after and talked about. That kind of buzz isnt just thrown towards anybody. A healthy Pillman like you saw say in ecw, right before the crash, is a huge coup for anyone who nabs him.

**Hanso Amore** · 10-07-2007, 05:20 PM

So because I find Pillman's Amazing legacy less than stellar, I know nothing? I have seen all his "great Work". I still find nothing amazing. Wow, he had a few match of the year candidate matches, that does not make him an all time great. Its much more in that business than I ever did, but how many guys have had the same thing. How many match of the years have been had by guys like Daniels and AJ Styles. They are big names to SmarkTards, but in the grand scheme of Wrestling History, they dont even get a chapter.

Pillman brought so much attitude to the WWE that he really did nothing, and easnt over until the Hart Foundation. While that is due to injury, he still did fuck all. Maybe they intended him to change the face of the WWF, but that didnt happen, and Stone Cold took the lead and changed it, that is why he is a legend, and Pillman is a guy who wasnt even talked about on these boards until his DVD came out.

How many of you tards are even old enough to remember him? Seeing a DVD and a few youtube clips does not count. I have seen Pillman Live in WCW and the WWE. I watched every show he was on in ECW first airing. I was at the shows he missed. and this huge BUZZ he made was a foot note to bigger happenings on those nights. I find is hilarious that a bunch of 15 year old kids who were.....5 when this ICON died are telling me that I dont know anything about him. You guys know what you have been told to know.

I guess Kane Knight is the only other sane person on this board.

You guys like to throw out moments in his career that make him great, but lets break them down.

Matches whith Liger - A few good matches that meant nothing in the end, there was no story behind them, and after they were done, he was still nothing.

Yellow Dog - Nuff Said

Tagging with Zenk - Your really going to use this as a defense of his greatness? They were Strike Force 8 years later.

Dress - Nuff Said

Being A horseman - Such a big deal most people wouldnt have even known. Nearly killed the group again by leaving.

The gun Incident - Created BAd Press for the WWE but got some fans....About the same effect as CHuck and Billy.

Hollywood Blondes - a Solid team I enjoyed, but without looking at what these 2 became, it was a short lived tag team in a down era in the number 2 brand. Americas Most Wanted 10 years earlier.

XXX Files - Gimme a break

HArt Foundation - They never really got him going enough in this, could have been great. HE was kind of just 2nd fiddle to the rest, its hard getting over big in a group with 3 hall of famers.

Loose Cannon Years - While they could have been huge, nothing much happened with it because the guy got hurt. It sucks, but thats what happened. A Gimmick that died too soon. Sean O-Haire ring a bell.

He had a SOLID career, but nothing amazing. When you break it down like this, no moment is that important, and overall it makes a solid but not legendary career. Before that DVD, Pillman was basically the guy who's ankle Austin broke (coining a term-Pilmanizing), the Guy with the gun, and the guy who died too soon. the WWE tries to cash in, and now all you sheep are on his nuts.

But hey, "I dont know anything" right? It's funny how anyone who dis-agrees with you is not only wrong, but doesnt know anything.

**Loose Cannon** · 10-07-2007, 10:29 PM

dude, you already said you've seen very little of him, so I ain't reading whatever shit you just wrote there

**Loose Cannon** · 10-07-2007, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MatthewAllenHanso

So because I find Pillman's Amazing legacy less than stellar, I know nothing? I have seen all his "great Work"..

Quote:

Originally Posted by MatthewAllenHanso

never seen much of his loose cannon work, doesnt seem that special to me.

fuck off ok

**Destor** · 10-08-2007, 12:18 AM

So...um yeah, he hasn't seen much of his Loose Cannon work and somehow he knows nothing of his career.

K, I didn't know Pillman had such a lackluster career that if you missed the 8 month span, you missed it all.

Thanks for the heads up.

**Loose Cannon** · 10-08-2007, 12:36 AM

did you choose to glance over the word "all" there Destor? I guess so. your mask probably blinded you.

and I can only think that "great Work" (capital w) meant when he Worked everyone as the Loose Cannon.

so fuck off too, go work a $5 match and go by some meth, dick.

**Destor** · 10-08-2007, 12:39 AM

Really? That's your entire argument? Holy fuck.

As far as personal pot shots go, brother, I'm living my dream. Do you really think you can hurt me?

**What Would Kevin Do?** · 10-08-2007, 12:40 AM

Pillman had something special. If you couldn't see that, you're blind. Very few wrestlers who have died young, especially at his place on the card, have gained this kind of recognition. Did dying young help his legacy? Hell, it nearly created his legacy, but only because he WAS something special. I don't see any Louie Spicolli DVD's or memorial shows.

**FourFifty** · 10-08-2007, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destor

I don't like saying this, but KK's got a strong point.

I feel dirty.

At least it's KK and not RP.

**Hanso Amore** · 10-08-2007, 08:49 AM

Now you guys are Grasping. I have seen ALL OF THE THINGS you have mentioned as his GREAT work.

I however have not seen alot of his Loose Cannon stuff. Just the few moments, and if that is everything, your lost.

So sad, you guys can't even have conversations. If somone disagrees, you tell them they are wrong and stupid. Then they tell you why they think what they do, and you have to look for some little loophole to try to make them look wrong. So there we go, if you read what I said, I Saw his great work, but I also said I only saw a bit of Loose Cannon. So unless all his GREAT work = Loose Cannon, what happens to all the great WCW stuff you guys have been jerking off too?

**hb2k** · 10-08-2007, 09:19 AM

I'll gladly debate the career of Pillman.

Saying he had a lackluster career is pretty simple minded, and I'm actually surprised if you legitimately followed it all the way through. A great talker, a great wrestler and a brilliant mind, he had so many highlights that while there he was saddled with some goofy crap like the dress and the Yellow Dog, they're total footnotes given how he was constantly evolving and finding new ways to be a highlight of the show, first his style and the matches with Liger, then as the raspy voiced chicken shit heel, to forming a team with Austin that is still talked about as an awesome unit despite only being around for eight months. Even when there was zero intent to try and use him, or put him in bad positions in this period he'd have matches that would steal the show, carrying guys like Alex Wright and Johnny B Badd to the best matches of their lives. His run as a Horseman took a group that hadn't meant anything for years and rejuvanted it with his new persona, and the Loose Cannon was not only the first of its kind and a groundbreaker when it came to what would ultimately result in the business getting hot again - real life edgy personalities instead of cartoon characters, but it also resulted in the most captivating promos and creative skits of the time. Clearly his worth was pretty significant, being the first wrestler of the period to become subject to a bidding war between Bischoff and McMahon, and taking himself out of midcard status to get a big money contract.

And while the car crash took away his in-ring ability, he was still banging out awesome promos, and the Gun and XXX Files angles, as much as you want to discredit them, when you try to make a point about people remembering the Yellow Dog, these aren't thought of in the same vain, and the fact you remember them goes lengths to showing how impactful they were at the time.

**Hanso Amore** · 10-08-2007, 09:39 AM

I just dont see it. While a bigger name in WCW, he was never a top guy. He was around for years, and a hard worker, had some nice moments, but that is it. He was on the Val Venis Level. Solid.

His horseman run did nada for the group, they were crap with him, after and they never really got running ever again. he created stirs with the Loose Cannon, but he was just bringing a bigger name to what ECW had already been doing. His WWF run may be remembered by you, but overall, it was nothing.

**Kane Knight** · 10-08-2007, 09:46 AM

LC, it really does seem like you're grasping at straws. MAH may or may not be after a reaction, but going after him for technicalities of diction won't really help much.

**hb2k** · 10-08-2007, 09:49 AM

Val Venis has never ever had a show stealing match, let alone several. Plus when factoring in his style and how different it was, and how he kept adapting his persona, he's leagues ahead of Val.

The Horsemen of Flair/Arn/Pillman/Benoit was far and above any incarnation in the at least six years prior, and as they were given promo time, they were the highlight of Nitro at the time. And nobody really said anything about ECW, that was the beauty of the entire Loose Cannon character, whether we was showing up on Nitro or ECW, it wasn't about them, it was about him. That was the point. As for his WWF run - he was primed for a really special run before the humvee wreck, and while I agree his time there was nowhere near what it could have been, it still had a number highlights that, as much as you want to say they aren't memorable, even a Pillman detractor like yourself doesn't need to ask for details on what "The Gun angle" was.

**Loose Cannon** · 10-08-2007, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MatthewAllenHanso

I just dont see it. While a bigger name in WCW, he was never a top guy. He was around for years, and a hard worker, had some nice moments, but that is it. He was on the Val Venis Level. Solid.

His horseman run did nada for the group, they were crap with him, after and they never really got running ever again. he created stirs with the Loose Cannon, but he was just bringing a bigger name to what ECW had already been doing. His WWF run may be remembered by you, but overall, it was nothing.

he's looking for a reaction. Val Venis? come on. he's being stupid. I could go into a long debate and give lots of arguments, but I would be wasting my time. it's a lost cause.

**Hanso Amore** · 10-08-2007, 09:58 AM

Im not looking for a reaction, I am telling it how I see it. Ever think maybe you guys think Pillman is better than he is, like most of you give Noid crap for doing for Venis, or the Bashams?

**hb2k** · 10-08-2007, 10:06 AM

Comparing Pillman's career with Val Venis or the Bashams is pretty absurd.

**Hanso Amore** · 10-08-2007, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hb2k

Comparing Pillman's career with Val Venis or the Bashams is pretty absurd.

Why?

**Hanso Amore** · 10-08-2007, 10:19 AM

Pillman is popular amongst Smarks. Casual Fans have no idea who he is.

Venis is Over with the Marks, and as you can see from the WWE Poll, the Smarks too. He was at one time a top 3 face in the WWE long ago, has been in major storylines, was a character that helped change the attitude era, and has crated controversy.

Sounds alot like Pillman. Val also held a major singles title....

**hb2k** · 10-08-2007, 10:39 AM

Really, have you asked them all? Go back and watch some of those Pillman matches and moments throughout his career and listen to the crowd. They're all reacting, they're all responding. Venis' career is mired in apathy from the casuals, and if you think he was ever a top 3 face, you're kidding yourself. Meanwhile Brian Pillman Vs. Ric Flair was the single highest rating TBS ever did for a wrestling show, and they broadcasted WCW for years and years and years. While Pillman has a record of high quality matches, promos and innovative personality changes, Val Venis, well, he doesnt. And I guarantee if they release a Val Venis DVD in ten years, it won't do nearly as well as Pillman's did.

**Kane Knight** · 10-08-2007, 10:46 AM

We're using crowd reactions as proof of popularity, now? Because Scotty 2 Hotty has gotten bigger pops than main eventers.

**hb2k** · 10-08-2007, 10:52 AM

As proof that the casuals cared - saying Pillman only appealed to a small minority is dumb when looking at the facts, and while that was only one point of a few to disspell that notion, hey, Too Cool were a hot act in 2000. The rest of their record doesn't back them up in terms of being remembered as anything special, but that's besides the point.

**Hanso Amore** · 10-08-2007, 10:53 AM

Well, usually a crowd reaction is a good indication of being over.

When people cheer, they tend to like what they see.

When Rob COnway comes out, nothing.

Venis is over.

And during his IC reign, I would say he was top 3. It was during a time when there were injuries if I remember correctly, and there werent many top faces. this was pre-redicalz/invasion, things were a little more diluted back then.

**Hanso Amore** · 10-08-2007, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hb2k

As proof that the casuals cared - saying Pillman only appealed to a small minority is dumb when looking at the facts, and while that was only one point of a few to disspell that notion, hey, Too Cool were a hot act in 2000. The rest of their record doesn't back them up in terms of being remembered as anything special, but that's besides the point.

I am trying very hard to understand what your trying to say, but is this english? You lost me.

**hb2k** · 10-08-2007, 11:00 AM

In an era with Rock, Austin, Foley, Taker, Kane, Triple H, X-Pac, Outlaws, Vince, Big Show and tons of other big names, I don't buy for a second that Val Venis was even in the top 5. He was a popular gimmick, but he never had fans behind him to that degree where he was red-hot or anything.

**Loose Cannon** · 10-08-2007, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MatthewAllenHanso

Im not looking for a reaction, I am telling it how I see it. Ever think maybe you guys think Pillman is better than he is, like most of you give Noid crap for doing for Venis, or the Bashams?

I don't really care how you see it. I listen more to the guys in the business that worked with Brian and saw his preformances each and every night. Those guys will tell you how special he was. How much he contributed to the industry at a time when the industry was in the shitter. I remember having a brief conversation about Pillman with Terry Funk once at a fan fest because they were close. I'll never forget what he said. Being Terry, he asked me if I'd ever read the bible before.

"Yes sir."

"Well you know all those stories about people who did great things"

"Yea"

"Well none of them ever saw Brian Pillman"

I just nodded and smiled.

**Hanso Amore** · 10-08-2007, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon

I don't really care how you see it. I listen more to the guys in the business that worked with Brian and saw his preformances each and every night. Those guys will tell you how special he was. How much he contributed to the industry at a time when the industry was in the shitter. I remember having a brief conversation about Pillman with Terry Funk once at a fan fest because they were close. I'll never forget what he said. Being Terry, he asked me if I'd ever read the bible before.

"Yes sir."

"Well you know all those stories about people who did great things"

"Yea"

"Well none of them ever saw Brian Pillman"

I just nodded and smiled.

.......Touching?

**Lord-Of-Darkness** · 10-08-2007, 11:31 AM

All due respect LC, I'm not gonna take sides because I agree with different points on both sides here. But Funk would say something about Pillman, he knew him. If someone I knew died years ago, and someone asked me what he was like, I'd say "Yeah he was a really great guy" and say good things about them.

I'm not saying he was lying or anything, just when you look back at people you knew and reminisce, you're going to think of the better things.

**Loose Cannon** · 10-08-2007, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MatthewAllenHanso

.......Touching?

no, the truth

**Loose Cannon** · 10-08-2007, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord-Of-Darkness

All due respect LC, I'm not gonna take sides because I agree with different points on both sides here. But Funk would say something about Pillman, he knew him. If someone I knew died years ago, and someone asked me what he was like, I'd say "Yeah he was a really great guy" and say good things about them.

I'm not saying he was lying or anything, just when you look back at people you knew and reminisce, you're going to think of the better things.

it's Terry Funk. Terry Funk is not guy that's afraid to say shit about people, even when thier dead. are you seriously trying to tell me that Funk's opinion does not matter because he knew Brian Pillman. christ

**Lord-Of-Darkness** · 10-08-2007, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon

it's Terry Funk. Terry Funk is not guy that's afraid to say shit about people, even when thier dead. are you seriously trying to tell me that Funk's opinion does not matter because he knew Brian Pillman. christ

No I'm not trying to say his opinion doesn't matter exactly. Just saying if he was close to him or whatever then he'd probably say something good. I even said that doesn't mean he's lying or whatever.

**Hanso Amore** · 10-08-2007, 12:01 PM

Yes Funk says shit about people. He isnt affraid to. But you aid they were close, so of course he says something nice about him. If your friend died you would remember him as a great person. Now if Funk hated Pillman and said that, it would carry tons of weight.

**Lord-Of-Darkness** · 10-08-2007, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MatthewAllenHanso

Yes Funk says shit about people. He isnt affraid to. But you aid they were close, so of course he says something nice about him. If your friend died you would remember him as a great person. Now if Funk hated Pillman and said that, it would carry tons of weight.

Thats exactly what I'm trying to say

**Loose Cannon** · 10-08-2007, 12:16 PM

is this a joke? seriously, did Xero PM people to fuck with me when he made this thread? I feel like Ashton Kutcher is going to flash on my screen soon.

10-07-2007, 12:36 PM	#41
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	Kane Knight: I here what your saying, but Matthew up there mentions Yellow Dog. Yellow Dog is so minor in all that Pillman has done in his career and that's his case for how people remember Pillman. Yellow dog and Dress. It's like he's trying to pick apart Pillman by mentioning two of the worst angles he was a part of. Not even a mention of Hart Foundation, XXX Files, Gun Incident...which is what most fans, like Xero said, would remember Pillman by. Last edited by Loose Cannon; 10-07-2007 at 12:38 PM.

10-07-2007, 12:49 PM	#42
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	and I mentioned all those other moments to him because he mentioned Yellow Dog, which is around the same time, when all those moments happened. So if he's got to at least know about them or chooses not to

10-07-2007, 12:49 PM	#43
Kane Knight Ron Paul 4 EVA Posts: 152,467	Say what you will, but the dress bit stuck in a lot of people's heads at the time. People tend to remember the worst, they tend to remember the most notable, and that was arguably both in terms of what garners attention.

10-07-2007, 12:51 PM	#44
Destor I am the cheese Posts: 51,464	I don't like saying this, but KK's got a strong point. I feel dirty.

10-07-2007, 01:00 PM	#46
hb2k Do Unto Others... Posts: 2,086	First saw Pillman in the Hollywood Blondes during the series with Steamboat and Douglas and thought he was the most annoying dick I'd ever seen. Him and Austin were such good heels that if I saw a team like them now, I'd love them instantly, but back then, I wanted to see them get shitkicked. Pillman was great. As for the "nothing without a death" point, hey - if Kurt Cobain meant little to music, his death wouldn't have meant much anyway. Lead singer of Drowning Pool dies, no immortal legacy just because of a death. The end of Pillman's life is a really sad story, how he became the talk of the business and a red hot commodity, but things just not going his way, ultimately spinning downhill for good, throwing it to the curb. Unbelieveable character that I wish we could have seen more of. And if anybody has a FULL copy of the Brian Pillman WWF Contract Signing, complete with his flip-out that they'd like to sell, please PM me...

10-07-2007, 01:04 PM	#47
Zen v.W.o. GO HABS GO! Posts: 4,018	Yeah that contract signing was immense. Still recall it to this day. I have an audio file of it. But that's another thing. He was fucking intelligent. The dude fooled everyone. He worked everybody. The boys. He worked Bischoff so well he managed to get himself released from his contract so that he could sign his most lucrative contract he's ever had to that point. He became the biggest free agent in the business up to that time, and the most sought after and talked about. That kind of buzz isnt just thrown towards anybody. A healthy Pillman like you saw say in ecw, right before the crash, is a huge coup for anyone who nabs him.

10-07-2007, 05:20 PM	#48
Hanso Amore You can't teach that Posts: 19,337	So because I find Pillman's Amazing legacy less than stellar, I know nothing? I have seen all his "great Work". I still find nothing amazing. Wow, he had a few match of the year candidate matches, that does not make him an all time great. Its much more in that business than I ever did, but how many guys have had the same thing. How many match of the years have been had by guys like Daniels and AJ Styles. They are big names to SmarkTards, but in the grand scheme of Wrestling History, they dont even get a chapter. Pillman brought so much attitude to the WWE that he really did nothing, and easnt over until the Hart Foundation. While that is due to injury, he still did fuck all. Maybe they intended him to change the face of the WWF, but that didnt happen, and Stone Cold took the lead and changed it, that is why he is a legend, and Pillman is a guy who wasnt even talked about on these boards until his DVD came out. How many of you tards are even old enough to remember him? Seeing a DVD and a few youtube clips does not count. I have seen Pillman Live in WCW and the WWE. I watched every show he was on in ECW first airing. I was at the shows he missed. and this huge BUZZ he made was a foot note to bigger happenings on those nights. I find is hilarious that a bunch of 15 year old kids who were.....5 when this ICON died are telling me that I dont know anything about him. You guys know what you have been told to know. I guess Kane Knight is the only other sane person on this board. You guys like to throw out moments in his career that make him great, but lets break them down. Matches whith Liger - A few good matches that meant nothing in the end, there was no story behind them, and after they were done, he was still nothing. Yellow Dog - Nuff Said Tagging with Zenk - Your really going to use this as a defense of his greatness? They were Strike Force 8 years later. Dress - Nuff Said Being A horseman - Such a big deal most people wouldnt have even known. Nearly killed the group again by leaving. The gun Incident - Created BAd Press for the WWE but got some fans....About the same effect as CHuck and Billy. Hollywood Blondes - a Solid team I enjoyed, but without looking at what these 2 became, it was a short lived tag team in a down era in the number 2 brand. Americas Most Wanted 10 years earlier. XXX Files - Gimme a break HArt Foundation - They never really got him going enough in this, could have been great. HE was kind of just 2nd fiddle to the rest, its hard getting over big in a group with 3 hall of famers. Loose Cannon Years - While they could have been huge, nothing much happened with it because the guy got hurt. It sucks, but thats what happened. A Gimmick that died too soon. Sean O-Haire ring a bell. He had a SOLID career, but nothing amazing. When you break it down like this, no moment is that important, and overall it makes a solid but not legendary career. Before that DVD, Pillman was basically the guy who's ankle Austin broke (coining a term-Pilmanizing), the Guy with the gun, and the guy who died too soon. the WWE tries to cash in, and now all you sheep are on his nuts. But hey, "I dont know anything" right? It's funny how anyone who dis-agrees with you is not only wrong, but doesnt know anything.

10-07-2007, 10:29 PM	#49
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	dude, you already said you've seen very little of him, so I ain't reading whatever shit you just wrote there

10-08-2007, 12:18 AM	#51
Destor I am the cheese Posts: 51,464	So...um yeah, he hasn't seen much of his Loose Cannon work and somehow he knows nothing of his career. K, I didn't know Pillman had such a lackluster career that if you missed the 8 month span, you missed it all. Thanks for the heads up.

10-08-2007, 12:36 AM	#52
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	did you choose to glance over the word "all" there Destor? I guess so. your mask probably blinded you. and I can only think that "great Work" (capital w) meant when he Worked everyone as the Loose Cannon. so fuck off too, go work a $5 match and go by some meth, dick.

10-08-2007, 12:39 AM	#53
Destor I am the cheese Posts: 51,464	Really? That's your entire argument? Holy fuck. As far as personal pot shots go, brother, I'm living my dream. Do you really think you can hurt me?

10-08-2007, 12:40 AM	#54
What Would Kevin Do? Ninja Mod, Esquire Posts: 12,676	Pillman had something special. If you couldn't see that, you're blind. Very few wrestlers who have died young, especially at his place on the card, have gained this kind of recognition. Did dying young help his legacy? Hell, it nearly created his legacy, but only because he WAS something special. I don't see any Louie Spicolli DVD's or memorial shows.

10-08-2007, 08:49 AM	#56
Hanso Amore You can't teach that Posts: 19,337	Now you guys are Grasping. I have seen ALL OF THE THINGS you have mentioned as his GREAT work. I however have not seen alot of his Loose Cannon stuff. Just the few moments, and if that is everything, your lost. So sad, you guys can't even have conversations. If somone disagrees, you tell them they are wrong and stupid. Then they tell you why they think what they do, and you have to look for some little loophole to try to make them look wrong. So there we go, if you read what I said, I Saw his great work, but I also said I only saw a bit of Loose Cannon. So unless all his GREAT work = Loose Cannon, what happens to all the great WCW stuff you guys have been jerking off too?

10-08-2007, 09:19 AM	#57
hb2k Do Unto Others... Posts: 2,086	I'll gladly debate the career of Pillman. Saying he had a lackluster career is pretty simple minded, and I'm actually surprised if you legitimately followed it all the way through. A great talker, a great wrestler and a brilliant mind, he had so many highlights that while there he was saddled with some goofy crap like the dress and the Yellow Dog, they're total footnotes given how he was constantly evolving and finding new ways to be a highlight of the show, first his style and the matches with Liger, then as the raspy voiced chicken shit heel, to forming a team with Austin that is still talked about as an awesome unit despite only being around for eight months. Even when there was zero intent to try and use him, or put him in bad positions in this period he'd have matches that would steal the show, carrying guys like Alex Wright and Johnny B Badd to the best matches of their lives. His run as a Horseman took a group that hadn't meant anything for years and rejuvanted it with his new persona, and the Loose Cannon was not only the first of its kind and a groundbreaker when it came to what would ultimately result in the business getting hot again - real life edgy personalities instead of cartoon characters, but it also resulted in the most captivating promos and creative skits of the time. Clearly his worth was pretty significant, being the first wrestler of the period to become subject to a bidding war between Bischoff and McMahon, and taking himself out of midcard status to get a big money contract. And while the car crash took away his in-ring ability, he was still banging out awesome promos, and the Gun and XXX Files angles, as much as you want to discredit them, when you try to make a point about people remembering the Yellow Dog, these aren't thought of in the same vain, and the fact you remember them goes lengths to showing how impactful they were at the time.

10-08-2007, 09:39 AM	#58
Hanso Amore You can't teach that Posts: 19,337	I just dont see it. While a bigger name in WCW, he was never a top guy. He was around for years, and a hard worker, had some nice moments, but that is it. He was on the Val Venis Level. Solid. His horseman run did nada for the group, they were crap with him, after and they never really got running ever again. he created stirs with the Loose Cannon, but he was just bringing a bigger name to what ECW had already been doing. His WWF run may be remembered by you, but overall, it was nothing.

10-08-2007, 09:46 AM	#59
Kane Knight Ron Paul 4 EVA Posts: 152,467	LC, it really does seem like you're grasping at straws. MAH may or may not be after a reaction, but going after him for technicalities of diction won't really help much.

10-08-2007, 09:49 AM	#60
hb2k Do Unto Others... Posts: 2,086	Val Venis has never ever had a show stealing match, let alone several. Plus when factoring in his style and how different it was, and how he kept adapting his persona, he's leagues ahead of Val. The Horsemen of Flair/Arn/Pillman/Benoit was far and above any incarnation in the at least six years prior, and as they were given promo time, they were the highlight of Nitro at the time. And nobody really said anything about ECW, that was the beauty of the entire Loose Cannon character, whether we was showing up on Nitro or ECW, it wasn't about them, it was about him. That was the point. As for his WWF run - he was primed for a really special run before the humvee wreck, and while I agree his time there was nowhere near what it could have been, it still had a number highlights that, as much as you want to say they aren't memorable, even a Pillman detractor like yourself doesn't need to ask for details on what "The Gun angle" was.

10-08-2007, 09:58 AM	#62
Hanso Amore You can't teach that Posts: 19,337	Im not looking for a reaction, I am telling it how I see it. Ever think maybe you guys think Pillman is better than he is, like most of you give Noid crap for doing for Venis, or the Bashams?

10-08-2007, 10:06 AM	#63
hb2k Do Unto Others... Posts: 2,086	Comparing Pillman's career with Val Venis or the Bashams is pretty absurd.

10-08-2007, 10:19 AM	#65
Hanso Amore You can't teach that Posts: 19,337	Pillman is popular amongst Smarks. Casual Fans have no idea who he is. Venis is Over with the Marks, and as you can see from the WWE Poll, the Smarks too. He was at one time a top 3 face in the WWE long ago, has been in major storylines, was a character that helped change the attitude era, and has crated controversy. Sounds alot like Pillman. Val also held a major singles title....

10-08-2007, 10:39 AM	#66
hb2k Do Unto Others... Posts: 2,086	Really, have you asked them all? Go back and watch some of those Pillman matches and moments throughout his career and listen to the crowd. They're all reacting, they're all responding. Venis' career is mired in apathy from the casuals, and if you think he was ever a top 3 face, you're kidding yourself. Meanwhile Brian Pillman Vs. Ric Flair was the single highest rating TBS ever did for a wrestling show, and they broadcasted WCW for years and years and years. While Pillman has a record of high quality matches, promos and innovative personality changes, Val Venis, well, he doesnt. And I guarantee if they release a Val Venis DVD in ten years, it won't do nearly as well as Pillman's did.

10-08-2007, 10:46 AM	#67
Kane Knight Ron Paul 4 EVA Posts: 152,467	We're using crowd reactions as proof of popularity, now? Because Scotty 2 Hotty has gotten bigger pops than main eventers.

10-08-2007, 10:52 AM	#68
hb2k Do Unto Others... Posts: 2,086	As proof that the casuals cared - saying Pillman only appealed to a small minority is dumb when looking at the facts, and while that was only one point of a few to disspell that notion, hey, Too Cool were a hot act in 2000. The rest of their record doesn't back them up in terms of being remembered as anything special, but that's besides the point.

10-08-2007, 10:53 AM	#69
Hanso Amore You can't teach that Posts: 19,337	Well, usually a crowd reaction is a good indication of being over. When people cheer, they tend to like what they see. When Rob COnway comes out, nothing. Venis is over. And during his IC reign, I would say he was top 3. It was during a time when there were injuries if I remember correctly, and there werent many top faces. this was pre-redicalz/invasion, things were a little more diluted back then.

10-08-2007, 11:00 AM	#71
hb2k Do Unto Others... Posts: 2,086	In an era with Rock, Austin, Foley, Taker, Kane, Triple H, X-Pac, Outlaws, Vince, Big Show and tons of other big names, I don't buy for a second that Val Venis was even in the top 5. He was a popular gimmick, but he never had fans behind him to that degree where he was red-hot or anything.

10-08-2007, 11:31 AM	#74
Lord-Of-Darkness Posts: 2,513	All due respect LC, I'm not gonna take sides because I agree with different points on both sides here. But Funk would say something about Pillman, he knew him. If someone I knew died years ago, and someone asked me what he was like, I'd say "Yeah he was a really great guy" and say good things about them. I'm not saying he was lying or anything, just when you look back at people you knew and reminisce, you're going to think of the better things.

10-08-2007, 12:01 PM	#78
Hanso Amore You can't teach that Posts: 19,337	Yes Funk says shit about people. He isnt affraid to. But you aid they were close, so of course he says something nice about him. If your friend died you would remember him as a great person. Now if Funk hated Pillman and said that, it would carry tons of weight.

10-08-2007, 12:16 PM	#80
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	is this a joke? seriously, did Xero PM people to fuck with me when he made this thread? I feel like Ashton Kutcher is going to flash on my screen soon.