Now is the time for the wwe to look for new champs

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight The Roster was not stellar from top to bottom in the Attitude Era. There were some pretty glaring flaws. What was important was that there was more talent at the top. I'm pretty sure they could have filled the rest of the car with midgets dancing and it'd sell, because the big names mattered. But now it is on one or two people, and that point is well taken. A promotion booked around one or two people will always suck, even if it's Jesus and Bret. And yes, folks, Jesus did screw Bret.

I'll have to slightly disagree. Yes - The overall WRESTLING talent of the mid-card/low-card during the Attitude Era definitely was NOT stellar...and like you say, there definitely was some glaring flaws.

However - I'd argue that the creative team did an EXCELLENT job at getting the fans to care about almost every single guy. Almost every single wrestler was very unique in some way....and had atleast one intriguing characteristic about them that got amplified.

-Val Venis (videos)
-Al Snow (schizio)
-Brood (Blood Baths)
-Mankind (insane)
-Godfather (pimp)
-Road Dogg/Billy Gunn (popular schticks)
-X-Pac (the little bitch that could.....the undersized warrior with a huge heart).
-Goldust (Shattered Dreams....kicked other dudes in the nuts).
-Patterson, Brisco, Slaughter......Vince's stooges...made for some great comedy.
-Hardcore Holly (overly brave.....took on all-comers)
-Mark Henry (sexual chocolate.....slept with Mae Young)

Even certain guys that weren't naturally that charismatic, found a way to get over by being aligned with Vince McMahon's corporation or Undertaker's Ministry

-Bossman
-Test
-Steve Blackman
-Mideon
-Acolytes
-Viscera
-Ken Shamrock

Heck - even FEMALE wrestlers such as Sable got HUUUGE face reactions (and there wasn't even a real woman's division at the time). When Sable/Edge defeated Jacqueline/Marc Mero at Summerslam, Sable got popped huge. In my opinion, the women's "division" was absolutely perfect at the time. Short; brief; and to the point (unlike my post ).

-Jeff Jarret hit people over the head with his guitar...used Debra and her "puppies" as distraction.

-Owen Hart's dorky ways got spectacular heel heat....as did D'Lo Brown.

-If you want to count Kane and Mankind in there, they also had wildy intriguing and successful characters. Even Triple H before winning the title, was turning some major heads with his charisma/gimmick, etc.


Yes - the undercard/mid-card during the RAW era was below average in terms of overall wrestling talent, but the diversity and intrigue of the CHARACTERS (key word here) is what made the undercard/mid-card of the Attitude Era absolutely tremendous.

Almost every single guy was hugely over.....and for a reason.


So in conclusion....I don't really agree. In my opinion, the roster WAS stacked from top to bottom....not because of superior wrestling ability, but because the WWE creative team did a phenomenal job of getting the fans to CARE about each and every CHARACTER.

The Austin/Vince McMahon angle obviously carried the company, but the rest of the card were way over as well.

For an example of what I'm talking about, please watch an old tape of Summerslam 98'.

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by Heyman I'll have to slightly disagree. Yes - The overall WRESTLING talent of the mid-card/low-card during the Attitude Era definitely was NOT stellar...and like you say, there definitely was some glaring flaws. However - I'd argue that the creative team did an EXCELLENT job at getting the fans to care about almost every single guy. Almost every single wrestler was very unique in some way....and had atleast one intriguing characteristic about them that got amplified. -Val Venis (videos) -Al Snow (schizio) -Brood (Blood Baths) -Mankind (insane) -Godfather (pimp) -Road Dogg/Billy Gunn (popular schticks) -X-Pac (the little bitch that could.....the undersized warrior with a huge heart). -Goldust (Shattered Dreams....kicked other dudes in the nuts). -Patterson, Brisco, Slaughter......Vince's stooges...made for some great comedy. -Hardcore Holly (overly brave.....took on all-comers) -Mark Henry (sexual chocolate.....slept with Mae Young) Even certain guys that weren't naturally that charismatic, found a way to get over by being aligned with Vince McMahon's corporation or Undertaker's Ministry -Bossman -Test -Steve Blackman -Mideon -Acolytes -Viscera -Ken Shamrock Heck - even FEMALE wrestlers such as Sable got HUUUGE face reactions (and there wasn't even a real woman's division at the time). When Sable/Edge defeated Jacqueline/Marc Mero at Summerslam, Sable got popped huge. In my opinion, the women's "division" was absolutely perfect at the time. Short; brief; and to the point (unlike my post ). -Jeff Jarret hit people over the head with his guitar...used Debra and her "puppies" as distraction. -Owen Hart's dorky ways got spectacular heel heat....as did D'Lo Brown. -If you want to count Kane and Mankind in there, they also had wildy intriguing and successful characters. Even Triple H before winning the title, was turning some major heads with his charisma/gimmick, etc. Yes - the undercard/mid-card during the RAW era was below average in terms of overall wrestling talent, but the diversity and intrigue of the CHARACTERS (key word here) is what made the undercard/mid-card of the Attitude Era absolutely tremendous. Almost every single guy was hugely over.....and for a reason. So in conclusion....I don't really agree. In my opinion, the roster WAS stacked from top to bottom....not because of superior wrestling ability, but because the WWE creative team did a phenomenal job of getting the fans to CARE about each and every CHARACTER. The Austin/Vince McMahon angle obviously carried the company, but the rest of the card were way over as well. For an example of what I'm talking about, please watch an old tape of Summerslam 98'.

In contrast, the creative team (or the wrestler's themselves) do NOT put a whole of effort into the characters. Today, a guy is expected to be a main-eventer by just saying "Kennedaay!" a bunch of times.

Characters exist today, but almost NONE of them are APLIFIED in the manner that the characters were during the Attitude Era.

-Carlitto spits apples in people's faces and says, "das not cool." Woooow!

-Kennedy says "Kennedaaay!" a whole bunch of times. oooooooooh!!!!

The only "characters" that have are really letting their personalities shine right now, are MVP and Santino Marella IMO.

Fans don't care about the mid-card/under-card wrestlers today (despite greater wrestling talent than the Attitude era wrestlers), because they have no reason to. Ironically enough - they look a lot like WCW's under-card during its final days.

[Kane Knight]

I'd disagree.

Ever been to a rock concert where even the shitty opening act gets a standing O?

[Theo Dious]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight I'd disagree. Ever been to a rock concert where even the shitty opening act gets a standing O?

You mean it's possible that people in the attitude era were so excited about the promise of a great and satisfying show, they even got excited about that which was overtly less exciting?

You mean it's possible that nobody gets exciting for more lackluster performers today because there is no such promise that the show is going to be that good?

You mean you just managed to sum up the problem in two lines that it took Heyman a small pamphlet to explain?

Nah, it's probably Vince Russo's fault.

[.44 Magdalene]

... I like Palumbo.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by DarthTedious You mean it's possible that people in the attitude era were so excited about the promise of a great and satisfying show, they even got excited about that which was overtly less exciting? You mean it's possible that nobody gets exciting for more lackluster performers today because there is no such promise that the show is going to be that good? You mean you just managed to sum up the problem in two lines that it took Heyman a small pamphlet to explain? Nah, it's probably Vince Russo's fault.

Yeah, what was I thinking?

Yeah, but seriously, you book ended the midcard with people like The Rock, Austin, Undertaker, DX. When the show starts and ends with the guys you're hyped to see, even the filler will seem exciting.

Attitude Era shows seemed better because the big guys were better. Hornswiggle would be fine as a distraction in an Attitude Era show, no worse than the minis, or any of a dozen dumb gimmicks, because when you headline with folks like the aforementioned, the show can afford to have some less stellar points.

The last couple weeks of Raw should show the problem. Even the big events get almost no reaction (That isn't piped in. I'm sorry, but anyone who wants me to believe that it sounds like the crowd's on it's feet when nobody's cheering or standing or even moving has to be getting higher than RVD). When you can barely get people excited for your big hitters, everything else will seem like it sucks. More.

But like a kickass rock band, if they start and finish strong, you probably won't care much when the singer forgets the words to one of the songs.