Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy: WHY?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Jeritron Seriously, what you suggested wasn't bad at all. I love the use of the Rumble in the fued. But in that event I wouldn't have him turn heel on Jeff at the Rumble. Rather later down the road during a tag match when it's least expected. Then book the Mania fued from there. I don't think it should be for the IC title though, since that fued would have plenty of dynamic on it's own. As for the Matt Hardy thing, got me thinking... A Matt Hardy/Jeff Hardy fued would be so great sometime down the road, except for the fact that it'd fail where it could be amazing..the promo department. Neither has the ability to carry the ball with the promos, which would be a huge part of such a fued. It'd still be interesting, and probably should still happen, but thanks to neither one of them being any good on the stick a potentially classic fued will fall short.

Well, I am a huge mark for him, but Matt Hardy is nowhere near as bad on the mic as people make him out to be. Especially as a heel, which he would be in this feud. Just have him act all cocky, like the asshole bigger brother. Have him talk about how he always got the girls, he always got the better grades, he talked Jeff into the business, he worked harder to be the better wrestler, and he pretty much carried their team to Tag Team Titles, but somehow Jeff keeps pulling in front of him, and he realises now that he has to choose between letting Jeff Hardy criminally overshadow him, and being a good soul; or squashing the leech and choosing this business he has proved he is willing to lose everything for. I can see Matt actually giving a great promo like that, and just turning into a dick who says that Jeff makes physical sacrifices, but he makes personal ones.

You know what would be seriously awesome, though? Matt Hardy and Triple H start hanging around as heels after WrestleMania. The two are just a more natural fit than Trips & Jeff, in my opinion, and in some kind of new heel stable (maybe with HBK, in that proposed heel answer to DX), they would be pretty great. Matt could become Triple H's "Cerebral Apprentice," or something. Matt Hardy could even win the US Title from MVP, and then the IC Title from Jeff Hardy, and carry both belts around for the while (he needs to become a little more decorated, in my opinion). It'd be a great way to go if they decided to end the brand split, I think. Have Matt Hardy unify the secondary titles.

I can understand you not thinking that Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy needs to be for the IC Title, and I somewhat agree, but I think it would add to the feud, at least a little. I'm sick of the IC Title being left of the Mania card, and Triple H being involved in an IC Title match would be one of the few ways I can see the WWE making the belt Mania worthy. Triple H costing Jeff the belt when their feud picks up, would be fine, as well. Part of me just wants to see some parallels between Matt & Jeff at WrestleMania, though, and them both challenging for secondary titles is the most realistic, at this point.

[.44 Magdalene]

I can't honestly see Matt Hardy as being a credible heel.

Yeah, he might've started that way... but he hasn't been one for a long, long time.

...And there's a very good reason for that.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Corkscrewed Einstein would say it's all relative. Therefore, you are wrong, and physics is right.

HE also says that the only universal contant is the dead silence of a Chris Masters segment, marked "c"

[Fox]

Originally Posted by The Critic I can't honestly see Matt Hardy as being a credible heel. Yeah, he might've started that way... but he hasn't been one for a long, long time. ...And there's a very good reason for that.

I'm not trying to be a dick; serious question. Were you a wrestling fan during the Mattitude/Matt Hardy V.1 shtick he did with Shannon Moore back in the Hey-man Day of Smackdown? That stuff was golden. He was consistently the most entertaining promo/segment on the show, and he was actually getting very over with the Cruiserweight Title, of all things.


I like Alienoid's idea of HHH vs. Hardy at Mania, but I'm just still not sure that this would ever happen. HHH has such a long history of destroying promising careers, I'm afraid that any program Jeff would work with him would end with Hunter still being Hunter, and Jeff still just being Jeff.

It's difficult with Jeff's gimmick to imagine him as a main event player. The WWF/E and WCW have always promoted the "high school jock" type (Cena, Rock, Goldberg, Luger, Hogan, Nash, etc). The only successful face goth-type gimmicks in the recent era of wrestling have been Sting as the dark crow, and Undertaker. Sting had the nWo feud to fuel him, and Undertaker is just, well, The fucking Undertaker.

Jeff isn't as big as Sting or Taker, and his look is nowhere near as "cool" as either of theirs were either.

That's why I mentioned the corporate/suit gimmick for him as a change, but as was said, he doesn't seem to have the mic skills to back up that type of a gimmick.

I don't really know where I'm going with this. I really, really want to see Jeff Hardy main event for the WWE Title some day; I have since his Ladder Match with Taker way back when. It's just I have trouble finding a workable scenario to get him over as a top star, and I just don't see Triple H, maybe the ONLY guy who could actually do it himself, taking the hit to do something like that.

Time will tell.

[.44 Magdalene]

No, I'm not saying Matt's not credible (though I do see him as less credible than Jeff, as I've said on previous occassions). I just can't imagine Matt being a good heel.

I mean, look at him. Is he a good wrestler? Yes. Decent on the mic? Sure. Intimidating? ...Fuck no. He's an underdog type. HE WILL NOT DIE. Yeah, he may be entertaining, but that doesn't make for heel heat. It'd be like Rey Mysterio trying to turn heel. The only way it would work is if Matt Hardy turned into a cheating asshole type, and I can't really see that, either. He doesn't really have that look, I don't think.

I didn't like AJ Styles' heel turn for very similar reasons.

[Heyman]

Personally, I think Jeff will eventually get a victory in this (whether it's clean or not): Here's why:

1) Jeff's way over right now.....the WWE would have to be COMPLETE retards to have HHH squash Jeff. Even if Triple H wins their first bout, I can definitely see Jeff winning their next one.

2) Triple H loves proving critics wrong. A few years ago, Triple H proved his critics wrong by doing the CLEAN job to Batista and Cena in back to back WM's. With the emergence of Jeff Hardy, I think Triple H will once again try and prove to others that he is a "team player." Somewhere down the road, Triple H will get his favour returned (i.e. Wrestlemania main-event?).

CONCLUSION: Triple H will give Jeff Hardy the "rub" (i.e. HANDJOB) so that Hardy becomes a credible main-eventer in the eyes of the fans. However - Triple H will also use this opportunity to make himself look like a "team player".....and will cash in on his favour at a more important time (i.e. Wrestlemania). The WWE needs new stars right now, and so there's no way Jeff Hardy will look weak in this.

p.s. Also - I don't see anyone turning heel either. I think Triple H will stay face for quite some time.

[Fox]

....again, did you or did you not see Matt Hardy Version 1, Mattitude, Sensei of Mattitude, with Shannon Moore as his bitch?

[Fox]

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by The Critic No, I'm not saying Matt's not credible (though I do see him as less credible than Jeff, as I've said on previous occassions). I just can't imagine Matt being a good heel. I mean, look at him. Is he a good wrestler? Yes. Decent on the mic? Sure. Intimidating? ...Fuck no. He's an underdog type. HE WILL NOT DIE. Yeah, he may be entertaining, but that doesn't make for heel heat. It'd be like Rey Mysterio trying to turn heel. The only way it would work is if Matt Hardy turned into a cheating asshole type, and I can't really see that, either. He doesn't really have that look, I don't think. I didn't like AJ Styles' heel turn for very similar reasons.

But he was a heel. and it worked. I think he's better as a face, but that doesn't mean he can't be a heel.

Matt can come off as a douchebag pretty easily. In fact, he appears to be one in real life, so it's not really a stretch to see him play something so natural to him.

[.44 Magdalene]

I guess I did miss that part, then. I only remember v1 being a face.



Then again, I missed a shitload of Smackdown.

[.44 Magdalene]

I'm still gonna go ahead and say he sucks as a heel, just for the sake of talking out of my ass.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by The Critic I'm still gonna go ahead and say he sucks as a heel, just for the sake of talking out of my ass.

Still makes you more credible than half the posters here.

Honestly, as you said, the only way Matt Hardy works as a heel, is playing the arrogant asshole you want to see get his ass kicked. That works perfect for someone of Matt Hardy's build. He just strikes me as a guy with a few missing parts, who is fine sacrificing everyone around him for his own personal goals, whilst hiding in the shadows when the shit starts to fly.

WrestleMania was a perfect example of how great a heel Matt Hardy can be. He didn't really turn, but he coerced Jeff into diving off a ladder, effectively using his brother's body to take out his arch-nemesis, and eliminating two opponents of his; then he got Sharmell, a bitch in kayfabe terms, but a woman nonetheless, and threatened to give her a Twist of Fate, which got her husband to sacrifice the win to save her, allowing Matt to hold off on a loss.

Matt Hardy is over as fuck as a babyface, but the character the WWE has had him play since his return in 2005 has been really bland. He suffers from the "heel loses his edge" syndrome. The easiest way to remedy this, is to have him come back from his injury a little more angry, and a little more arrogant.

I just think of how awesome things could have been if Matt Hardy had returned with Mattitude in 2005. He was so fucking over when he returned. People in my neighbourhood were actually throwing up the V1 hand-sign.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Fox I'm not trying to be a dick; serious question. Were you a wrestling fan during the Mattitude/Matt Hardy V.1 shtick he did with Shannon Moore back in the Hey-man Day of Smackdown? That stuff was golden. He was consistently the most entertaining promo/segment on the show, and he was actually getting very over with the Cruiserweight Title, of all things. I like Alienoid's idea of HHH vs. Hardy at Mania, but I'm just still not sure that this would ever happen. HHH has such a long history of destroying promising careers, I'm afraid that any program Jeff would work with him would end with Hunter still being Hunter, and Jeff still just being Jeff. It's difficult with Jeff's gimmick to imagine him as a main event player. The WWF/E and WCW have always promoted the "high school jock" type (Cena, Rock, Goldberg, Luger, Hogan, Nash, etc). The only successful face goth-type gimmicks in the recent era of wrestling have been Sting as the dark crow, and Undertaker. Sting had the nWo feud to fuel him, and Undertaker is just, well, The fucking Undertaker. Jeff isn't as big as Sting or Taker, and his look is nowhere near as "cool" as either of theirs were either. That's why I mentioned the corporate/suit gimmick for him as a change, but as was said, he doesn't seem to have the mic skills to back up that type of a gimmick. I don't really know where I'm going with this. I really, really want to see Jeff Hardy main event for the WWE Title some day; I have since his Ladder Match with Taker way back when. It's just I have trouble finding a workable scenario to get him over as a top star, and I just don't see Triple H, maybe the ONLY guy who could actually do it himself, taking the hit to do something like that. Time will tell.

To be honest, part of that is why I never really got into Jeff Hardy. His image has just never captured my imagination. When Matt Hardy went singles, his image changed a fair bit. He started wearing awesome fucking pants, mainly. He also got new music, and pretty much a new character. Jeff kind of shook his image up a bit, mainly getting more "street" with it, but he was pretty much the same Jeff Hardy.

The suit idea is not a bad one, but I wouldn't actually turn Jeff heel with it. I think a heel turn would be great under the helm of someone like Jim Cornette or Paul Heyman, who could do something with a heel Jeff, but I think he should eventually cut his hair in his feud with Triple H. Have the change established as Jeff Hardy's cry to have Triple H take him seriously. Maybe give Jeff some new pants, and even new entrance music. It'd be so much more of a mark-out moment when The Hardys came out together to their classic theme then.

If they took those steps, and had Matt and Jeff celebrate in the ring to The Hardys' theme music, it would be a pretty awesome moment. Both Matt and Jeff are overcoming the stigma of being small tag team guys, slowly but steadily, however, I can personally see why someone sees Jeff Hardy come out, and they absolutely can't buy him as a main event player.

Also, I don't expect the WWE to bury Jeff Hardy in his match with Triple H. I don't expect Jeff to win, but just the little details regarding Jeff. The way he was allowed to survive in the Elimination Match at Survivor Series, and the way he has been getting so many falls to his name recently. Wasn't he the guy who got the final pin at Survivor Series, actually? I'd have put money on it being Triple H. I'm fairly certain he is in support of the push Jeff Hardy is getting.

[Fox]

That's what I thought when HHH started feuding with Booker T. We all saw how that ended.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by The Critic I guess I did miss that part, then. I only remember v1 being a face. Then again, I missed a shitload of Smackdown.

Bah.

I have a tendency to not remember large chunks of pro wrestling anyway.

I mostly remember V ONEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAH! as a Heel because my friends bitched. They were all markish reasons, mind. Not that I'm saying people are wrong for booing the heels, just that all the criticisms seemed to come more from "The pretty boy face is now bad...boo hoo."

[DAMN iNATOR]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Bah. I have a tendency to not remember large chunks of pro wrestling anyway. I mostly remember V ONEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAH! as a Heel because my friends bitched. They were all markish reasons, mind. Not that I'm saying people are wrong for booing the heels, just that all the criticisms seemed to come more from "The pretty boy face is now bad...boo hoo."

Knowing you though, I'm sure you just straightened em right out with one of your patented bitch-slaps followed by a nice long “GET OVER IT!”

[thedamndest]

My two cents: Matt Hardy can get over as a heel in his V1 role. The Hardys together can get over as heels in a similar role, possibly in some McMahon related sell-out fashion. Jeff by himself? I see him having a way tougher time getting over as a heel because of his history as an underdog and lack of heel promo skills.