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Old 12-06-2007, 04:41 PM   #41
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Why the fuck hasn't he F-U'd dictatorship?
JR: BAH GAWD!!! John Cena just slammed Kim Jong Il to the people's mat!!! And he's got him locked in the STFU!!! BAW GAWD he's feeding the North Koreans!!! He's feeding the North Koreans!!!!
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Old 12-06-2007, 04:42 PM   #42
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BTW, HHH is another current example of a relatively successful face. He's been toned down a bit, but they've let him keep his edge and heelish traits. Thus, the crowd will still react to him. He's not Mr. Bland, so he works as a face.
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Old 12-06-2007, 06:04 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Corkscrewed View Post
JR: BAH GAWD!!! John Cena just slammed Kim Jong Il to the people's mat!!! And he's got him locked in the STFU!!! BAW GAWD he's feeding the North Koreans!!! He's feeding the North Koreans!!!!
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Old 12-06-2007, 06:08 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Corkscrewed View Post
BTW, HHH is another current example of a relatively successful face. He's been toned down a bit, but they've let him keep his edge and heelish traits. Thus, the crowd will still react to him. He's not Mr. Bland, so he works as a face.
Well, you see, I disagree with that. Triple Z is as bland as anything to me, but he is definitely more likable when he does do anything to win, and is the same son of a bitch who slept his way to the top. He is bound to come out somewhat heelish in his feud with Jeff Hardy, and I think it might actually help him get a better holding as a face, in my opinion.
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Old 12-06-2007, 06:12 PM   #45
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Someone I am worried about is Chris Jericho. You can sense the blandness in the writing of his character. It was there before he left, and it is too pure to really connect with on the level that people connected with Jericho in 1999/2000/2001.

He's basking too much in the fans' reactions, and he's trying to appeal too much to the fans. Jericho was great when he was telling us that we wanted to see him with girly hair, flamboyant jackets and a wannabe rock-star attitude. Right now, we're seeing Jericho ask us if we want to see him...with girly hair, flamboyant jackets and a wannabe rock-star attitude. He needs to get that arrogance back against him. He needs to put himself over as the greatest thing since sex, and the man with 1,004 holds. That man will get cheered much more loudly than "I'm going to beat you up, because I'm a face" Jericho.
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Old 12-07-2007, 10:38 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Alienoid06 View Post
Someone I am worried about is Chris Jericho. You can sense the blandness in the writing of his character. It was there before he left, and it is too pure to really connect with on the level that people connected with Jericho in 1999/2000/2001.

He's basking too much in the fans' reactions, and he's trying to appeal too much to the fans. Jericho was great when he was telling us that we wanted to see him with girly hair, flamboyant jackets and a wannabe rock-star attitude. Right now, we're seeing Jericho ask us if we want to see him...with girly hair, flamboyant jackets and a wannabe rock-star attitude. He needs to get that arrogance back against him. He needs to put himself over as the greatest thing since sex, and the man with 1,004 holds. That man will get cheered much more loudly than "I'm going to beat you up, because I'm a face" Jericho.
^^^^^^^^

I couldn't have said it better myself (well actually....I could, but I'm trying to be more modest these days ).

Totally agree with you in regards to Jericho.

The other point I'd like to bring up, is something that BigdaddyCool alluded to earlier in this thread.

Even if everyone TRIED to act heel, it ultimately wouldn't work.

However - this is the beautiful part....and this is the part where a bit of pyschology comes into play.

1) The fans don't want to be told what to do....and who to cheer for.

2) It's impossible for EVERY single guy to be a heel. Even if the WWE tried to pull it off, the fans would cheer whoever they thought was the COOLEST....and THAT is the good news!

The fans would literally be BEGGING to cheer someone (due to the abundance of heels). Due to the fans' desperation to cheer someone, they would CHOOSE who they want to cheer for. Since the fans would choose the most 'over' and 'coolest' characters (combined with the fact that there would be little or no "PURE faces", these wrestlers would get MASSIVE face pops....provided that they kept their heelish characters, but simply directed it towards their opponents....i.e. Austin/98, The Rock/99, Undertaker).


Another observation I'd like to make (which I've mentioned before): John Cena.

Most people view John Cena as a failure as a face. I however - view Cena as a TREMENDOUS heel (even though he tries to act like a face). Think about it. When John Cena faced Triple H at Wrestlemania a few years ago, the guy was booed out of the building.

When Cena faced RVD at ECW One Night Stand in 06', the heat he garnered was unreal. The same can be said when Cena faced HBK at last year's Wrestlemania.

Bottom line? If Cena wasn't injured and was STILL in the WWE, I would have kept him EXACTLY as is. Instead of putting him against medicore heelish opponents such as Umaga, Khali, etc., or having him feud with guys like Edge, HBK for the trillionth time, I would have put him up against guys like Dave Batista, Undertaker, Triple H (again), and even someone like Hulk Hogan.

It's all about perception.
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Old 12-07-2007, 10:42 AM   #47
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I think John Cena's character would need a little tweaking if he were to be an effective heel. Even if he just hangs around with Vince a lot, or wears a suit to the arena (or Vince says that he doesn't need to wear a suit, when all other employees do). Just some kind of portrayal of John Cena as the company man.
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Old 12-07-2007, 10:49 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Alienoid06 View Post
I think John Cena's character would need a little tweaking if he were to be an effective heel. Even if he just hangs around with Vince a lot, or wears a suit to the arena (or Vince says that he doesn't need to wear a suit, when all other employees do). Just some kind of portrayal of John Cena as the company man.
I definitely see where you're coming from, but I don't quite agree. I think a large reason why Cena garners such (spectacular) heel heat nowadays, is because the fans aren't SUPPOSED to boo him......but do it out of spite/defiance.

In other words, the fans absolutely love doing what they're not "supposed" to do. Because of this, there is far more passion involved in hating Cena.

Once you put Cena in a suit however, that natural passion of hating Cena will die down. Why? Because - now the WWE is TELLING you to boo Cena. The WWE is TELLING the fans what to do. The fans would still 'boo' loudly for a "corporate type" Cena, but the passion wouldn't be the same.

Think back to WM-18 with Hulk Hogan/The Rock. A large reason why Hulk Hogan could such a HUUUUGE face pop IMO, is because the fans "dared to be different".....and reveled in the idea of going against "what they were supposed to do." As a result, Hulkamania was reborn.

Ever notice how whenever Hogan comes back now, his pops aren't quite the same? (and in a matter of few weeks, his face pops start to die down quite noticeably?). It's because the WWE is TELLING the fans to CHEER him.....and we've already established the fact that the fans do NOT like being told what to do.

Atleast that's my take on it.
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Old 12-07-2007, 11:22 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Heyman View Post
I definitely see where you're coming from, but I don't quite agree. I think a large reason why Cena garners such (spectacular) heel heat nowadays, is because the fans aren't SUPPOSED to boo him......but do it out of spite/defiance.

In other words, the fans absolutely love doing what they're not "supposed" to do. Because of this, there is far more passion involved in hating Cena.

Once you put Cena in a suit however, that natural passion of hating Cena will die down. Why? Because - now the WWE is TELLING you to boo Cena. The WWE is TELLING the fans what to do. The fans would still 'boo' loudly for a "corporate type" Cena, but the passion wouldn't be the same.

Think back to WM-18 with Hulk Hogan/The Rock. A large reason why Hulk Hogan could such a HUUUUGE face pop IMO, is because the fans "dared to be different".....and reveled in the idea of going against "what they were supposed to do." As a result, Hulkamania was reborn.

Ever notice how whenever Hogan comes back now, his pops aren't quite the same? (and in a matter of few weeks, his face pops start to die down quite noticeably?). It's because the WWE is TELLING the fans to CHEER him.....and we've already established the fact that the fans do NOT like being told what to do.

Atleast that's my take on it.
That's true, and I somewhat agree, but what the WWE currently do with John Cena is not let the fans decide, but rather, tell the fans to cheer. How is that any different than telling the fans to boo, hypothetically?

The big entrances, and merchandise...the guy is made out to be a hero needlessly. It's the WWE trying to sway the fans one way. Putting Cena in a suit may be swaying them, but it's pretty much the same thing. It'd just be a more natural and honest take on John Cena's current character.

I wouldn't actually put Cena in a suit, but I would have him hold the door for Stephanie McMahon when she arrives, and hang out in Vince's office, maybe bring Coach presents. Just make him a real suck-up character. Which is pretty much a slight extention on what he currently does.
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Old 12-07-2007, 02:00 PM   #50
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I do not miss Cena at all.
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Old 12-07-2007, 02:11 PM   #51
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I do not miss Cena at all.
Maybe - but I tend to believe that most people do (even if they don't openly admit it). Cena stirs up emotion in people (hatred for the most part). Currently in the WWE, most wrestlers stir up "blah" for an emotional response.

I for one, like Cena. IMO - he's one of few main-eventers in the WWE that....

a) Isn't 5+ years passed his prime (i.e. like Triple H, HBK, Undertaker, Chris Jericho???, etc.).

b) Isn't over 35 years of age

c) Still has lots of room to get better in terms of his marketing potential and overall gimmick.

IMO - Cena is the goods......and is (was) one of the best things going for the WWE whether we like it or not.

Every time Cena faced a high calibre opponent (i.e. RVD, HBK, Triple H, etc.,), Cena drew SPECTACULAR emotion from the crowd (i.e. Cena sucks!). Put Cena against crap ike Khali, Umaga, or Edge for the trillionth time, then of course the crowd reactions are going to be shitty. Heck - even The Rock would get limited reactions with those types of opponents.
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Old 12-07-2007, 03:02 PM   #52
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No honestly, I don't miss him at all. I watch Raw again now.
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