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Old 04-24-2008, 12:49 PM   #41
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LOL. Okay, that was at least a K3.
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Old 04-24-2008, 12:56 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool View Post
1) Jericho's groove has nothing to do with being in the mainevent. Plenty of non-mainevent wrestlers are firmly in their groove. Proximity to a groove and maineventing are independent of one another.
Oh, I wasn't arguing that his groove did have any direct relation to his main event status. I was just agreeing with an opinion voiced earlier in the thread, about Jericho being fun to watch in the ring, and cutting entertaining promos, something people were claiming he had lost the ability to do upon his return (I think those criticisms were way overdone, though).

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2) Your personal opinion of Jericho doesn't mean anything. *insert Val Venis joke*
Pot, meet kettle. It is black.

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3) Jericho is a big name, but not like Cena, Orton, JBL, HHH, Micheals. Hell JBL has been getting more high profile matches than Jericho has since his return.
I disagree. I think you are selling Jericho very short. The man was something like the fourth most popular wrestler in the WWE during the Attitude era. We're no longer there, but I bet if older fans came back, they'd recognise Jericho and think "I really, really used to like that guy." Then they might see Cena and think "wrestling's gay" and turn it off

You also need to specify by what you mean by "big name." If we're talking drawing power, I think Triple H might be the closest thing to a name there. If we're talking about the way the WWE pushes them, then that's moot, because we're talking about if Jericho can get there, not where he is at the moment. If you're talking about special attraction status to your average fan, again, I think you are selling Jericho and his history short.

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4) Final slot on the raw openning segement means nothing.
Not anything overly major, no. But the opening slot is usually reserved for someone the WWE does not mind being associated with their product. ECW ended with the ECW Champion, and SmackDown! with the World Heavyweight Champion until recently, when I believe it became Taker's spot. I'm not saying that the final slot is a massive thing, but the WWE deliberately inserted Jericho there, and haven't felt the need to replace him with John Cena, Randy Orton, Triple H or fucking Vince McMahon yet. It's a small sign that the WWE is at least somewhat proud of showing off Jericho.

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5) You didn't mention this, but he is IC champion. That is for the middle card, and he got that because they had to get it off Hardy.
Main eventers have held the IC Title before. Granted, not for a while. Jericho winning the IC Title is about as telling that the WWE sees him as a mid-carder as the final slot in the opening video shows they see him as a main eventer. It's just a little hint. And as you said, Jericho partially won the IC Title out of necessity. That works on the pro-main eventer stance. I also feel that the WWE wanted to put something on Jericho to make him look relevant and like he can win championships. Just a little title win to refocus Jericho.

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6) He is tacked on to the HBM v Batista match for Backlash, and add nothing to the match other than a shit stirrer. The fued was gold before he was inserted in it. He seems so unnessicary there. I personally feel like they wanted him to do something but not enough to give him his own match and he is a fucking champion.
The tri-branded PPVs makes it frustratingly hard to fit everyone on PPV. More championships should be defended on PPV. Jericho being added into the HBK/Batista issue did come out of nowhere, but I think being a Special Guest Referee in a main event program makes a guy look main event himself. Jericho has been presented as a contemporary through it.


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All these things added up don't make him an unfocus maineventer. They make him a fallback upper midcarder.

(Please note, I'm not bashing Jericho, he is doing fine right now, i guess. I'm bashing WWE's use of him.)
I disagree with that, to a degree. I don't think the WWE's plan is to use him as their top guy, but Jericho is presented as a main event talent by the WWE. He is a former World Champion, he is involved with main eventers, and he gets to be in matches with them, and occasionally defeat them. He just happens to work with mid-carders a lot, too.

I think we are essentially arguing the same thing, we just have a disagreement on the term. I think being presented like you're good enough to main event makes a main eventer (coupled with literally occasionally main eventing, at the very least); I think you are taking more of a "you have to consistently be up there" approach?
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Old 04-24-2008, 12:59 PM   #43
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I think the average fan would see Jericho as someone better than pretty much everyone on the WWE roster except maybe John Cena, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Batista and The Undertaker. Some might put Kane and Randy Orton ahead, too. I think Jericho definitely breaks into that group, though.
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Old 04-24-2008, 01:49 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Noid View Post
I think the average fan would see Jericho as someone better than pretty much everyone on the WWE roster except maybe John Cena, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Batista and The Undertaker. Some might put Kane and Randy Orton ahead, too. I think Jericho definitely breaks into that group, though.
That kind of speculation is baseless and most likely wrong. "I really really want it to be true" does not make baseless speculation any more grounded.

On an amusing note, I got more hits for Umaga than Jericho on Google.
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Old 04-24-2008, 01:58 PM   #45
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Orton got slightly more hits, and JBL got much less.

Matt Hardy almost got as many as Jericho.
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Old 04-24-2008, 02:03 PM   #46
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Jeff gets a shitload more hits.

I'd do more searches, but I'm drawing a blank on who to search.
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Old 04-24-2008, 02:04 PM   #47
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(This isn't really scientific, mind....)
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Old 04-24-2008, 02:11 PM   #48
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Big Show gets almost three times as many.

It's sort of a tiny ballpark. After JBL, Big Show, Matt and Jeff, and Umaga, other psuedo high profile wrestlers are either pointless to even ask (Triple H/Cena) or have name concerns that affect the outcome too much. (MVP/Kane)
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Old 04-24-2008, 02:15 PM   #49
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I didn't do Big Show, Kane and a couple of others specifically because the results would be kind of slanted by certain factors. Big Show, for example, is a common phrase or phrase segment. Kane is fairly common, especially since you have Bob Kane, Carol Kane, and Knight Knight. So I tried for people I could get specific hits off of.
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Old 04-24-2008, 02:31 PM   #50
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Its kinda ironic when you think about it. You watch ECW, which has something like 17 or so active male wrestlers, then you tune in to smackdown which is a decent B show, but isn't really deep (as evidenced by taker vs bats every week)

And then you look at RAW

Guys that are merely there to be (I'll use the term used) jobbers to the stars. Guys like Jericho, Carlito, Hardy pre suspension, Umaga. (despite me hating him) Guys that could be main eventers on either other show. Of course, WWE doesn't have any idea how to distribute their talent..

I'm off topic here. Anyways, I think he absolutely needs to move at the draft. The Save.us angle was a failure based on the fact that they A) bogged him down with garbage feuds after the feuds with Orton and B) didn't continue the feud with Orton, kinda like they forgot about it....

Given who and what is on RAW- the 'golden boy' of the company, the politicking son in law who apparently doesnt like Jericho and the incumbent champion who is once agin going to get crushed by said son in law. Its best he move to smackdown. Not like they'll be using him on RAW in the main event given how 'crowded' it is at the top
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Old 04-24-2008, 02:42 PM   #51
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Noid, you are trying way to hard to put Jericho into where you think he should be while completely ignoring where he is. Not only that you are making a completely unwatchable product in the process. You have ppv that plow through a month's worth of storylines just to get Jericho into a cluster fuck match. You just don't get it. Jericho can not be a maineventer this year on Raw. If he was given a proper push, especially on ECW or Smackdown he could. But just isn't on the level you think he is.
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Old 04-24-2008, 02:47 PM   #52
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Guys that could be main eventers on either other show. Of course, WWE doesn't have any idea how to distribute their talent..
Well, they need guys who will make their shitty main eventers look good.
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Old 04-24-2008, 02:53 PM   #53
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And you know what?

Putting over main eventers isn't necessarily a bad thing. Jericho gets a paycheck, the smarks get to pretend the guy they like is more important than he is, the main event scene is slightly less abysmal than it otherwise would be, and so on.
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