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Old 10-27-2008, 06:54 PM   #41
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You wanna know where the 'E' went downhill? Watch Summerslam when Brock won the title

That thud wasn't just the Rock hitting the mat, it was the E as well

Some of you like Brock. To me, he was ok, but he wasn't ready. Not to carry a company at least. The way he was built up was in such a way that he tore through the roster. And when he got to the top, he was made as though no one could touch him. At that point, he had no mic skill on his own to make things worse.

Compound your unbeatable looking top guy with no real money feuds and your 2 top star leaving and you have the decline of the E
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Old 10-27-2008, 07:05 PM   #42
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Brock winning the title from The Rock was fucking awesome!
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Old 10-27-2008, 07:17 PM   #43
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Old 10-27-2008, 07:37 PM   #44
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When Stephanie started booking
Yep. She became head writer in September 2000. The Triple H super-duper-mega-push begins almost to the day. It was bearable at first... Trips went down with an injury and, despite many shortcomings and baffling decisions, some angles/elements of the InVasion story were top-notch. Soon as Trips got back, in early 2002, things went to pot. I'm not blaming HIM personally (although he isn't absolved either), but the two events neatly coincide.

Although really you can trace the tame and uninspiring WWE as we know it today back to the day Titan Sports became WWFE and went public.
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Old 10-28-2008, 04:58 AM   #45
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When (fat) Trips was given the title on Raw...that was horrible. I still break out in a cold sweat when I think about the Big Poppa Pump feud!
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Old 10-28-2008, 10:27 AM   #46
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Yea, that was a frustrating time. It was annoying because HHH and Brock were their guys and they had no interest in anyone else. Even if the fans were calling for it, that was the hierarchy.
So basically you had some of the most popular superstars in years getting jobbed out. People realized times were different and wanted to see Booker T and RVD and others get their push, but it didn't happen while it would have mattered.
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Old 10-28-2008, 11:39 AM   #47
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I believe that HHH is only as good as someone who is a GREAT face. By himself, face or heel, i dont think he can carry the company on his back like Austin, Flair, Rock, etc. That is not taking anything away from the man, i like his in-ring work, his mic skills are awesome, and he has a GREAT heel persona. But like his best friend, when put on top, there is just something about them that are not boosting the ratings or keeping fans.

The 3 guys that i mentioned not only had die-hard fans, but brought in new fans. Of course HHH helped with that boom in the attitude era, but i think that HHH, HBK, nor Brock had/have IT to basically carry the company by themselves to another boom. HBK was in his prime around 96-97, but the company was nearing backruptcy or barely holding up. HHH's prime, arguably, was 99-00 but some can say that it was HIS TIME 2002-04. But where did the company go during that time?

So i think it really had to do when Rock left in 2002, SCSA left, and how Vince portrayed the WCW/ECW to the WWE fans/public. What makes it so bad, is that those same WCW/ECW stars that they pretty much squashed were the most popular ones in the company (Booker T, RVD, DDP, etc.) Vince, fuck your ego, think of your fucking business you jackass lol. People say that Vince is a genius. I think he gets WAY too much credit than he deserves. Sure, he owns the company and made Austin look like the best thing since Hogan, but don't think that Vince was behind ALL the golden stuff in the attitude era. If anything, Eric Bischoff, as much as people shit on him, should get more credit than he deserves. He almost put a company that has been around for about a CENTURY to bankruptcy in a matter of how many years???

Lol lets break down some of Vince's public ideas, and then guys on the booking such as Russo:

XFL: Vince
The Rock: Russo
Bodybuilding Federation: Vince
Austin/Vince angle: Booking
.
.
.
I could keep going, but i'm not going to.
Last edited by Johnny Vegas; 10-28-2008 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 10-28-2008, 06:00 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post
Brock winning the title from The Rock was fucking awesome!
I won't argue how cool the way it went down was... but hindsight being what it was, can you say he was truly ready?
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Old 10-28-2008, 06:08 PM   #49
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I see what you mean, but his feud with Big Show (Casket Match FTW) and Kurt Angle (Milk!) made for good TV. He was a hero worth rooting for and an unstoppable villain - those combined traits don't grow on trees.
Last edited by Kalyx triaD; 10-29-2008 at 12:44 AM.
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Old 10-29-2008, 12:38 AM   #50
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I lost faith on 01/26/07. that was the night i couldnt do it anymore. it was truly too much nonsense to me. i couldnt suspend the disbeliefe cause i was in disbelife of how little i could suspend with such crap/
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Old 10-31-2008, 10:46 PM   #51
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Batista - Kennedy feud wasn't doing it for you?
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Old 11-04-2008, 08:42 AM   #52
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I'd have to agree with DrA and say April 2002.
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Old 11-06-2008, 11:15 AM   #53
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I personally think that creatively the company has never been the same since Eddie Guerrero died. 2005 was such an underrated year creatively up until he died.
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:20 PM   #54
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The finger poke of doom.
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:45 PM   #55
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I turned Smackdown on last week, I saw Khali in the ring with some big chick kissing her, I turned Smackdown off, Ive lost all hope.
I feel that way everytime i turn smackdown on these days. This is the least i've ever cared about WWE as a whole, which is abit sad to admit. I would say it started to really suck after 2005.
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Old 11-06-2008, 06:35 PM   #56
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WrestleMania 20 was the ending point, for me anyway.

Lesnar left and WWE had just started to go more "Hollywood".

I feel Lesnar leaving was THE point that everything went south. He was clearly the future of the company. Afterward they had to scramble for someone to take his place, first Orton, then Cena and neither could get to Lesnar's level with the overall audience.
This is very close to being correct. I still think the next year or so was entertaining. Evolution was still going on for a while and Cena had yet to be invincible vanilla.

Funny sidebar: The wikipedia page for Wrestlemania 20 and 21 have the same picture of Triple H as World Heavyweight Champion.
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Old 11-07-2008, 12:10 AM   #57
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A big part of it, in my belief, was Stone Cold Steve Austin's heel turn in 2001. Yes, it was shocking, and really compelling, but he never had a rival to really push him to the limits. His paranoia made sense, but his new pussy approach didn't. I think that hurt more than what people give it credit for.

Also, in regards to 2001, Booker T and Shane McMahon turning heel was a silly move. Austin was a top heel, and the fans were ready to embrace the WCW Champion as a hero who could hang with him. But no, they ended up on the same side of the alignment coin.

I'd also like to randomly say that I still believe that WrestleMania X-8 should have featured Chris Jericho vs. Rob Van Dam in the main event for the WWF Unidisputed Championship, with Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock and Triple H teaming up to face the nWo in a sub-main event.
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Old 11-07-2008, 12:37 AM   #58
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I agree with Noid about Austin's heel turn. That's when it started, but there were still some pretty great things going on until about late 2004. There have been some pretty good moments in the past 4 years, but the majority of them are forgettable.
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Old 11-07-2008, 04:34 AM   #59
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Havent watched more than two minutes of Raw or SD in months now.

I just cant do it anymore, nothing there interests me at all. Its kinda sad really because I was an absolutely rabid fan back in the day. Shit before Eddie died I was considering traveling to Australia just to see a show live.

For me, even though I watched WWE for years after the whole HHH ruling Raw thing, that I think killed it a lot for me. HHH should have dropped the belt to RVD, I remember the RVD vs. HBK match that enver really was. What a feud that would have been. He should have dropped it to Kane, and he should defianlty have dropped it to Booker at WM.

That debacle hurt my enjoyment of WWE hugely, tbh though I think the deaths of Eddie and Benoit destroyed the last of my true interest in Wrestling. They were the last two sort of beacons of hope to me in the WWE and I have never really got behind anyone to the same level since.
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Old 11-07-2008, 04:41 AM   #60
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Yea that was a time period where they were invested in two things...Brock Lesnar, and HHH. After the attitude era ended and Rock and Austin left, they were building Brock and Trips up huge as the rookie and the verteran.

It resulted in the burial of a handful of potential new stars the crowd were responding to on Raw.
Brock left and that was a waste as well.
The two never even had the big payoff.

The WWE has been in a rut ever since
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Old 11-08-2008, 04:00 AM   #61
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Mid '03. Rock/Austin retiring.
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Old 11-08-2008, 06:51 AM   #62
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How do you define 'started to suck'? When it was going downhill after its peak? If that is the case, I'd say that was when Austin got 'hit' in late 99. I'm the biggest Taker and Austin mark in existence (behind Gohan3k), and just didn't find the fascination that I had with 97-99, after Taker and Austin went on hiatus.

Of course, the WWF was still pretty freaking great for many years after that, but the ratings dropped off slightly after 99, and hence I'd say that is when it began the downhill trend.

2000 and 01 were all great years, though, like I said. 02 into 06 had some great times. In fact, during the whole Cena-Edge that started off 2006, ratings for those few months were the highest that they'd been since 2002/1.

When it really began to suck was after 06: everything in the WWE lost its attitude. New, clean image for the shows: weak new themes for RAW and ECW, weak new intros for all shows, weak new logos, and then there is stuff like the new-look Cell, and ultimately the current PG image.
Last edited by DaVe; 11-08-2008 at 06:53 AM.
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Old 11-10-2008, 02:33 AM   #63
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Something I haven't seen anyone talk much about on this thread are titles. I remember when I was a kid and titles meant something. If you could see a title change hands, it was special. Now, it's routine. The IC title got to where it was being traded every 2 weeks, the world titles change with such frequency that unless you're an already big name (ie Triple H) or you're given the rare long reign (Cena, JBL, etc) then your run at the top seemingly means nothing. Then you see guys who the fans like a lot, such as Benoit, Guerrero, Mysterio, CM Punk being world champion at a certain point but they are booked so poorly that they come across as not deserving of the belt. I remember at WM20, when Benoit and Guerrero left the show s the champs, I thought that the days of the titles meaning something was back. Then on Raw you had benoit curtain jerking against Rob Conway or someone and the main event revolved around whatever gimmick match Triple H and Shawn Michaels were having this month.

And it's not just the world titles, look at the absolute lack of a tag team division. Nowadays we get 2 random guys thrown together or two main eventers in a fued and they're given tag title pushes. I remember actual teams that actual storylines revolved around and i miss those days. When two random guys can beat your tag team champions, what's that say about your tag titles? When you book a guy to beat your tag team champions SINGLE HANDEDLY, what's that say for your tag team titles? They become worthless props, just like every other belt in the WWE at this point. Why even have champions if you're not going to use them properly?

I guess it's not necessarily a starting point of the downfall, but the title situation has probably killed my love for the business as much as anything else over the last 10 years or so.
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Old 11-11-2008, 01:36 PM   #64
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If a brandspilt was ended between Raw and Smackdown leaving ECW for the new guys that would help. You would only have to create storylines for one show and their is not an over abundance of main eventers anymore. I mean they can't even come up with one decent storyline for one show now.
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