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Old 11-19-2008, 01:30 PM   #41
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I dunno.. Machida has been good at 205 but there is a long line to the title before him.. Rashad, then either Rampage or Wandy, depending on that fight, then Forrest, if he loses, etc.. Same with Showgun.. He is 0-1 in UFC as LHW.. Both of those guys are on the smaller end of the LHW division and could easily make 185 (I realize that Shogun has fought at HW buit he walks around at like 200lbs).. You think they would turn their noses up at a chance to fight one of the best in the game today, for a UFC title??

I don't think so..
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Old 11-19-2008, 01:38 PM   #42
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You have got to think that everyone at 205 has considered the drop though. Machida more than anyone in the world should avoid it though. If I was undefeated, they only thing I would change between fights is the dude on the other side of the cage.

But none of these 205 guys are prepared to make the change it would seem, and they are the mostly the guys in Silva's range to fight. SO he must move up. Bisping moved down and he is one fight of a pretty much guarenteed title shot, assumption would expect Henerson to be his counterpart, who also moved down kind of against his desires, so the next guy to move down will have to wait. And if 2 guys move down...?
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Old 11-19-2008, 02:01 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Fabien Barthez View Post
You fucking tool.

May I introduce you to fickle, stupid fucker number 1.

He probably knows very little about MMA, and likes to make sweeping statements with no insight to how he makes them, just proving my point about typical internet 'fans' who shit from the mouth and let it run down their fingers and click 'post'

Next contestant....
I have been following the UFC since 1995.

So, why don't you take your own advice, (since you KNOW very little-to-nothing about myself and what I know) and stop making sweeping statements about me and my opinions that have no real insight to them.
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Old 11-19-2008, 02:08 PM   #44
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This is the MMA forum, not the Mr. JL forum.

Sorry for the typo also, I must have been too busy backing up my opinions with valid points.
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Old 11-19-2008, 05:21 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Kris P Lettus View Post
Oh yeah, he lost that fight to Ricco, after the Barnett shit.. I guess he was the first UFC fighter to hold two titles in two separate weight classes.. He just didn't do it at the same time..

For some reason I was thinking he was still UFC HW champ for Couture/Liddell 1..
You do know he never beat Liddell for the 205lbs belt right?
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Old 11-19-2008, 05:34 PM   #46
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I thought he beat him the first time he moved down to 205 for the "interim" title..

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Old 11-19-2008, 05:39 PM   #47
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Couture won by technical knockout due to strikes at 2:39 of Round 3. Couture becomes the Interim Light Heavyweight Champion, and the first person to win a title in two different weight divisions (Couture was a two-time Heavyweight Champion).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFC_43
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Old 11-19-2008, 06:25 PM   #48
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well that still isnt THE belt if you want to be picky. He actuallt beat Tito for the belt.
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Old 11-19-2008, 06:27 PM   #49
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Semantics..
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Old 11-19-2008, 06:31 PM   #50
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Well if he lost to Tito, he would never be recognised as a 205lbs champion so it ain't.
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Old 11-19-2008, 06:37 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabien Barthez View Post
This is the MMA forum, not the Mr. JL forum.

Sorry for the typo also, I must have been too busy backing up my opinions with valid points.
I was giving an opinion on how I see things going after this fight for both guys.

Chuck's gotten knocked out, lost via decision, won via decision and then just got knocked THE FUCK out again. Another devastating loss and Chuck's going to end up looking like Ken Shamrock; a guy who used to be a great fighter, but now has just lost it and is living off the name and fame he created when he was in his prime.

I just don't see that flying too well in the UFC these days considering how stacked the light heavyweight division is.
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Old 11-19-2008, 06:56 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Fabien Barthez View Post
it's going to be the fighter's decision what weight they fight
With the way UFC makes their contracts and control's their fighters, almost nothing is "the fighters choice." Henderson didnt want to move down to 185 to fight silva. Look for old news stories from when he lost to jackson. He said a couple times he wasnt going to do it. Then Dana stepped in and said he was going to do it.

At the end of the day its the fighting business and they are going to have the fighters do wahts good for them. Now they arent going to fix fights or pay guys off to not take it to the ground, but if a fighter is able to move around in weight classes, then they will make them do it. For example, they can simply not give them fights or take away some of their promotional opportunities (UFC contracts your likeness which means you cant make money off yourself as a fighter such as public appearances or television spots or action figures etc.). Also if the fighter refuses the UFC wont renegotiate the contract or release them all together and say they cant do business with them and this is all technically legal! The point is theres a lot of ways for the UFC to squeeze fighters into doing what they want.
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Old 11-19-2008, 07:07 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Mr. JL View Post
I was giving an opinion on how I see things going after this fight for both guys.

Chuck's gotten knocked out, lost via decision, won via decision and then just got knocked THE FUCK out again. Another devastating loss and Chuck's going to end up looking like Ken Shamrock; a guy who used to be a great fighter, but now has just lost it and is living off the name and fame he created when he was in his prime.

I just don't see that flying too well in the UFC these days considering how stacked the light heavyweight division is.
Shamrock? Really? Common now man. Shamrock has fought 8 times since 2002 and won 1 match! And he wasnt even close to fighting the competition that Liddel was facing. The difference between liddel and shamrock is that shamrock can fight scrubs the rest of his career and still have a losing record while liddel could fight the same scrubs and never lose till he retires.
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Old 11-19-2008, 07:15 PM   #54
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I still think that he is going to get Shamrock'd if he does not step up against Silva.

And that most of the fights left in him will just be to capitalize on his name value and not for him being one of the most dominate fighters.

Last edited by Mr. JL; 11-19-2008 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 11-19-2008, 07:18 PM   #55
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It will be very interesting to see what happens in the Liddel-Silva fight and what happens afterwards. Should be some interesting stuff.
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Old 11-19-2008, 07:38 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. JL View Post
I still think that he is going to get Shamrock'd if he does not step up against Silva.

And that most of the fights left in him will just be to capitalize on his name value and not for him being one of the most dominate fighters.
First of all. Leave my grammar alone.

That is Marquee Value. Randy has it, with a poor record. He lost to Chuck twice and still got a World title shot. Had he proved himself for it? No. Was the buyrate value it would generate be better than over someone else? Of course. Bernard Hopkins and Roy Jones have just done the exact same thing against Joe Calzaghe. Sure, they could have won, but they were never the favourites. They took the fights because they were the best options to extract the most revenue from their Marquee Value. You can't hate on a guy who puts his physical health at risk for wanting to make the most money he can.

I personally think Anderson Silva should be Randy's next fight. His record sucks really, and it won't appear much worse with a loss to Silva. And the money it could generate would be just as good as Silva/Liddell will be.
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Old 11-19-2008, 07:57 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabien Barthez View Post
You fucking tool.

May I introduce you to fickle, stupid fucker number 1.

He probably knows very little about MMA, and likes to make sweeping statements with no insight to how he makes them, just proving my point about typical internet 'fans' who shit from the mouth and let it run down their fingers and click 'post'

Next contestant....
what is wrong with you bro? chill out
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Old 11-19-2008, 07:59 PM   #58
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Everyone has been going crazy today..
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Old 11-19-2008, 08:00 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reavant View Post
With the way UFC makes their contracts and control's their fighters, almost nothing is "the fighters choice." Henderson didnt want to move down to 185 to fight silva. Look for old news stories from when he lost to jackson. He said a couple times he wasnt going to do it. Then Dana stepped in and said he was going to do it.

At the end of the day its the fighting business and they are going to have the fighters do wahts good for them. Now they arent going to fix fights or pay guys off to not take it to the ground, but if a fighter is able to move around in weight classes, then they will make them do it. For example, they can simply not give them fights or take away some of their promotional opportunities (UFC contracts your likeness which means you cant make money off yourself as a fighter such as public appearances or television spots or action figures etc.). Also if the fighter refuses the UFC wont renegotiate the contract or release them all together and say they cant do business with them and this is all technically legal! The point is theres a lot of ways for the UFC to squeeze fighters into doing what they want.
Hendo is another story man. He was the weightclass champion from the rival promotion. He had to fight Silva legitimacy reasons. Not just that, alot of people thought Hendo had a better chance of beating Silva than anyone. And he can't have been too against it, because he fought Palhares at 185 as well.

What weight will he be fighting Rich Franklin?

I understand the options available to UFC, but if they actually forced this, do you really think the last Middleweight title challenger would have been Patrick Cote?
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Old 11-19-2008, 08:04 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon View Post
what is wrong with you bro? chill out
It just pissed me off a bit that I try to put forth my opinions in a pretty evidenced and elequent manner regarding fickle comments based on very little, and the following post was just that.
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Old 11-19-2008, 08:05 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Fabien Barthez View Post
I understand the options available to UFC, but if they actually forced this, do you really think the last Middleweight title challenger would have been Patrick Cote?
I agree..

I think Rich told Dana on one of those last blogs that he was walking around at 195.. Could go either way..
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Old 11-19-2008, 08:11 PM   #62
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It just pissed me off a bit that I try to put forth my opinions in a pretty evidenced and elequent manner regarding fickle comments based on very little, and the following post was just that.
I got you. I just don't want to see this forum turn into the wreslting forum with a zillian threads with posters calling other posters ten thousand different names
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Old 11-19-2008, 08:15 PM   #63
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And I don't want the integrity of interesting discussions ruined by people who don't even care to read what is said before them, or attept to contribute to the discussion.

Not, unlike the wrestling forum. But without the kayfabe innuendo 'jokes' that follow everything ever said.
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Old 11-20-2008, 12:06 AM   #64
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I was merely posting what I believe is going to happen in the event of a win or a loss from the two fighters. You are just a spazz and taking things a little too seriously.
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Old 11-20-2008, 08:38 AM   #65
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I agree..

I think Rich told Dana on one of those last blogs that he was walking around at 195.. Could go either way..
Think he said 215
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Old 12-03-2008, 09:28 PM   #66
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Franklin didn't walk around at anything close to 195 when he fought at middleweight.
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Old 12-04-2008, 01:29 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Fabien Barthez View Post
Hendo is another story man. He was the weightclass champion from the rival promotion. He had to fight Silva legitimacy reasons. Not just that, alot of people thought Hendo had a better chance of beating Silva than anyone. And he can't have been too against it, because he fought Palhares at 185 as well.

What weight will he be fighting Rich Franklin?

I understand the options available to UFC, but if they actually forced this, do you really think the last Middleweight title challenger would have been Patrick Cote?
It doesnt change the fact that henderson still didnt want to drop. Also any future fights still at 185 doesnt mean he wants to be doing that rather than hes being told this is where you are going to fight.

Anyway with the Cote comment, the only reason Cote was the challenger to Silva was because Dana white opened his big mouth before his fight with Almaida. He thought Almeida was going to kill him and so did many other people and Dana was hoping he was still as good as he was 4 years ago.
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Old 12-04-2008, 01:31 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Kris P Lettus View Post
I agree..

I think Rich told Dana on one of those last blogs that he was walking around at 195.. Could go either way..
HAHA if he was walking around at 195 hed be fighting at 170
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