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Old 11-05-2009, 11:11 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heros Welcome View Post
If Bay falls through, I think Gonzo is Red Sox bound. Even if they do retain Bay I wouldn't be shocked to still see them land him. I really think they have the prospects it takes to entice the Pads.

Can move Youk to 3rd for good, and you can move Lowell and Ortiz for one more season at DH.
I believe the goal is to keep Bay since he's been a good replacement once they got rid of Manny and Lowell probably retires either this year or gives 1 more year. I don't think Pawtucket has any good 3rd base players ready so Youkilis to 3rd base frees them to get a good 1st basemen.

The big question is what to do with the closer since Papelbon has been shaky lately (mostly due to having a big mouth) while Bard isn't 100% ready to take over.
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Old 11-05-2009, 11:13 PM   #42
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Papelbon is still a top 3 closer in the league. A shaky season for him is an above average season for everyone else.
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Old 11-05-2009, 11:29 PM   #43
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He's more shaky because he relies too much on the fastball and not because he sucks. I think NESN basically said after his injury, he lost confidence in his other pitches and just kept relying on the fastball.

That was the main reason why Bard was put as set-up man as a wake-up call for him to be better since he has a lot of potential to be better.
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Old 11-05-2009, 11:37 PM   #44
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And we have our first drug citation of the off season...Ladies and Gentleman please give a warm welcome to our NA meeting.....









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Old 11-05-2009, 11:42 PM   #45
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Totally not surprised this guy was caught with a bag of pot.
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Old 11-06-2009, 04:09 AM   #46
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The Yankees have said they want to get a little younger however they can but I don't think there's much they can do. There really isn't much options for LF since I don't see them throwing big money at Bay or Holliday. If there was a decent LF available on the market I could understand letting Damon go but there isn't one that won't cost them a huge contract. I'm assuming Damon will be back unless they make a trade for a LF.

The whole Gardner/Cabrera thing has worked out pretty well. I think they stick with that for CF and maybe get Jackson involved later in the year.

I wouldn't mind having Matsui back if its in a role similar to this year and maybe a little reduced. He could be the DH except for days when Posada needs a day off from catching. I'm not sure who else they'd want to give DH time to besides Posada, Damon if he's back or maybe A-Rod.
During the season there was a rumor going around that the Yankees could trade for Figgins and make him a Left Fielder. If the Yankees trade for Chone or something then Damon is unfortunately gone.

I'm a little bit worried about pitching. Halladay is going to be awesome for us. But, think about it this is a man who is in the same league as the Yankees. So you know Toronto is gonna ask for the moon for him. He's just not worth all the people we'd have to hand over to Toronto for him.

I don't think Wang is done. If we can get the 2007 Wang
we're in good shape. Even in 2008 he was still 8-2 despite getting injured. I'm willing to bet his 2010 will be better. Depending on what is being asked I might take a flier on Lackey. He's a good pitcher.
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Old 11-06-2009, 04:54 AM   #47
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I still think if Andy comes back we are pretty much set. Unless they take a flier on a high-risk/high-reward type guy.

I mean CC-AJ-Andy-Joba-Hughes is solid I think. We have the top 3 guys that pretty much won us the WS this year along with the potential of both Joba and Hughes. Joba will be let loose and not have to deal with all the Joba rules stuff since he'll be able to pitch a full season. I know people were disappointed in what Joba did this year but I'm really looking forward to what he can do next year without all the restrictions and pitch and inning limits.

Those five guys, along with Wang (depending on what happens with him), Gaudin, Aceves, Kennedy, etc...gives them enough depth to handle Hughes' innings limit. The Yankees really don't need a big pitcher like Lackey.
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Old 11-06-2009, 11:00 AM   #48
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Quote:
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Was listening to Mike & Mike this morning and Buster Olney was saying that small market teams are going to try to save money this offseason by simply releasing players instead of giving them arbitration. So what we're going to have are a bunch of 24-26 year old free agents.
The Rios effect?
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Old 11-06-2009, 11:09 AM   #49
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Bay had said he'dlike to play for Toronto, that was @ a year ago. Wonder if that is still an option for the Jays.
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Old 11-06-2009, 11:15 AM   #50
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Chone Figgins? wtf? That's not happening. An injured Damon is better then Chone Figgins
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Old 11-06-2009, 01:08 PM   #51
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Brewers get: OF Carlos Gomez

Twins get: SS J.J. Hardy

---

2 days into the off-season and that's now three arbitration-eligible players traded.
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Old 11-06-2009, 01:09 PM   #52
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Actually, with that move...Deolis Guerra is now the only player left with the Twins from the Johan trade. Damn.
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Old 11-06-2009, 01:13 PM   #53
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Both teams just plugged each other's holes (that's what she said). Span will probably move to center and Delmon Young will go back to being a starter.
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Old 11-06-2009, 01:14 PM   #54
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The Yankees are gonna let Damon go and get Holliday - not that they have any real need for him
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Old 11-06-2009, 01:17 PM   #55
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Quote:
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I still think if Andy comes back we are pretty much set. Unless they take a flier on a high-risk/high-reward type guy.

I mean CC-AJ-Andy-Joba-Hughes is solid I think. We have the top 3 guys that pretty much won us the WS this year along with the potential of both Joba and Hughes. Joba will be let loose and not have to deal with all the Joba rules stuff since he'll be able to pitch a full season. I know people were disappointed in what Joba did this year but I'm really looking forward to what he can do next year without all the restrictions and pitch and inning limits.
Hughes hasnt shown anything as a starter. Only as a reliever has he been good.

Joba's strikeout rate dropped, his hit rate jumped, and rumors of injury were scattered. I wouldn't be so sure about him
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Old 11-06-2009, 02:28 PM   #56
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Hughes hasnt shown anything as a starter. Only as a reliever has he been good.

Joba's strikeout rate dropped, his hit rate jumped, and rumors of injury were scattered. I wouldn't be so sure about him
Actually, in his limited starts this year he was really solid for a 23 year old starter.

He had 7 starts and if you take out one where he just got bombed he had a 3.5 ERA in the others. Obviously a really small sample size but still.
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Old 11-06-2009, 02:37 PM   #57
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If Joba begins next season in the rotation and fails, his career might as well be over. It's a surefire way to render his confidence nonexistent. Keep the guy in the pen, and groom him to be Rivera's successor.
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Old 11-06-2009, 02:45 PM   #58
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The Yankees are gonna let Damon go and get Holliday - not that they have any real need for him
Damon just about wins the WS MVP, put up really good offensive #'s and you guys seem to think that a guy that dropped a game ending flyball in the playoffs is a smart move.
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Old 11-06-2009, 03:02 PM   #59
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Damon just about wins the WS MVP, put up really good offensive #'s and you guys seem to think that a guy that dropped a game ending flyball in the playoffs is a smart move.
Exactly. I dont fucking want somebody who can't catch patrolling left field.
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Old 11-06-2009, 03:16 PM   #60
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I don't think that drop will badly diminish Holliday's value. Mistakes happen.
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Old 11-06-2009, 03:16 PM   #61
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It was one play. I wouldn't call him a bad outfielder over one play.

He is a great player, with speed, athleticism, and would be a great guy on a number of teams this off season. Do I think he is going to get the Teixeira money that boras claims his worth? No not even close. Closer to 6 years worth 120, so the Beltran contract.

I hope the Mets pursue him and land him, but obviously its going to take more than him to fix my beloved Metropolitans. But thats an entire conversation in itself so I'll hold off on my offseason plans on them for now.

But Vito I'm really curious to see your thoughts on how you would handle the offseason for the Mets.
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Old 11-06-2009, 03:21 PM   #62
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I was actually planning on posting something about that tonight.
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Old 11-06-2009, 03:23 PM   #63
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Sounds good. I hope to have mine up sometime this weekend.
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Old 11-06-2009, 04:03 PM   #64
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anybody that's played outfield from High school baseball or beyond knows that catch Holliday missed is one of the hardest catches to make. With those line drives straight at you, you have like 1 second to think and the ball can carry and move at you at the last milisecond. So it's definately not reason for concern. It happens
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Old 11-06-2009, 04:27 PM   #65
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Quote:
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Actually, in his limited starts this year he was really solid for a 23 year old starter.

He had 7 starts and if you take out one where he just got bombed he had a 3.5 ERA in the others. Obviously a really small sample size but still.
What about his 21 career starts prior to this season? Same rule applies, small sample size, but there isn't a whole lot there. Not someone I'd lock in as a starter.


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Damon just about wins the WS MVP, put up really good offensive #'s and you guys seem to think that a guy that dropped a game ending flyball in the playoffs is a smart move.
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Exactly. I dont fucking want somebody who can't catch patrolling left field.
Holliday > Damon. Lest you forget Damon getting removed for defense in the Angel series because of his lack of arm
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Old 11-06-2009, 04:33 PM   #66
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Johnny Damon: Looks like Jesus, acts like Judas, throws like Mary.
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Old 11-06-2009, 04:49 PM   #67
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As for the Mets:

As a Met fan myself, I wanna blow this team up and start over. I'd LOVE to trade Jose Reyes but he has no value after the season long injury he had. Ples, a lot of teams probably share my personal opinion of the guy: he's an immature head case. Talent can't fix immaturity and stupidity, so we're stuck with him. Though there are pieces to work with here:

C: Thole/Santos
1B:
2B: Castillo
3B: Wright
SS: Reyes
LF:
CF: Beltran
RF: Francoeur

SP: Santana
SP:
SP: Perez
SP:
SP: Pelfrey


I'm not sold on Murphy. For me, let him earn a spot at 1st this year. If Delgado won't come back in for a fair price with incentives (I don't believe he will), bring in a Nick Johnson and have them platoon/compete for a job. With Nick's injury history it won't be long before Murphy plays anyways.

Left Field is where you spend your money. Go get Holliday. He went to the AL and was mediocre. I think he's an NL guy at heart. Get him here. At which point, your lineup looks like:

Reyes
Castillo
Holliday
Beltran
Wright
Francoeur
Murphy/Johnson
Thole/Santos

There's a more complete, less power reliant lineup you need in Citi Field.

Pitching is another place I'd spend at. Call the Royals, can Gil Meche be had? He'd be a good number 2 starter in the NL. I'm sure given his contract situation, a couple of decent prospects would do the job. If not, how about Brett Myers? The Phillies kept screwing with him (starting and then closing and then relieving again) and apparently he didn't like it. Will he come here? I'd love Lackey, but his injury history scares me. If the price is right, sure, but he hasn't made a full season of starts since 07. Bring back John Maine, high risk high reward, but you also have Misch, and anyone else you want to take a flier on as your number 4. Mike Pelfrey is a number 5 start at best. I don't care how good his sinker is, no one swings at it because he's behind in the count all the time.

So hypothetically, you have:

Santana
Meche
Perez
Maine/Misch/whomever
Pelfrey

And now you have a complete club that can run, hit for power, play defense amd pitch
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Old 11-07-2009, 12:59 AM   #68
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I don't think Reyes is really an immature headcase. And even if you wanted to classify him as that, the fact is he isn't being traded and, if healthy, he is a top 10 player in the league.

Health is obviously a HUGE concern for the Mets. The 2008 disaster must have set some sort of record for injuries. The fact is if you get totally healthy years from Wright, Beltran, Reyes, and Santana...that alone should improve the Mets record.

That being said, some major changes must be made.

The way I see it, there are two primary concerns for the Mets - getting a power bat in the lineup and getting a #2 starter. Really, I don't even know if I could pick between those two needs, because there are sound arguments both ways.

You could point at the power troubles last year, but I find it hard to believe that David Wright's power numbers aren't going to be better...he was trying too hard to abandon his power to adjust to Citi Field, and Beltran's HRs should go up with a full year as well. But then from the pitching point of view you can say Pelfrey is due to bounce back (traditionally pitchers struggle the first year after they reach over 200 innings, which he went through already) and that would be key.

The Wilpons told Omar that he would have all the financial help he needs...but I'll believe it when I see it. In a town with the Yankees, having all the financial help you need would mean abandoning any sort of budget and going all out to get anybody you think would make your team better. I would feel unbelievably good about this team if they were to sign Matt Holliday AND John Lackey...but I realistically can't see it happening. According to Cot's Baseball Contracts, the payroll for 2010 right now is about $92 million (as opposed to nearly $150 million this year)...but that number doesn't factor in the raises some guys will be getting in arbitration, etc. So...I really don't even know how they are going to approach this.

Hitting: If the core is back and healthy then Wright, Beltran, and Reyes is incredible. Add a guaranteed power bat and now we're talking. But whether they get one or not...I want them to get a righty first baseman to platoon with Murph (I love Murph, but I don't want to totally bestow the 2010 job to him...get a cheap option like Troy Glaus or something). I love Delgado, but I think it's time for both sides to move on and let him DH somewhere. Also although Castillo had a good year, if any team is willing to take him I think you have to do it and sign Orlando Hudson. They'll also probably get a 1 year deal for a catcher since they want Thole to start in AAA and don't view Santos as an everyday guy. Also hope to see continued development from Jeff Francoeur.

Rotation: Johan's had this bone chip surgery before supposedly and he said he'll be fine...he'd better because without him, the Mets go nowhere. I'd dump Perez but the only way you could get rid of him is by taking in an equally bad (or worse) contract. Maine is solid enough to find a spot, and I hope maybe Niese can get a shot. But regardless, they need someone else. I'd love Lackey...but if they get Holliday I don't see him in the plans. Marquis is interested in the Mets but he just SCREAMS contract year...so I dunno. I'm guessing we'll be hearing a lot about fringe guys like Jon Garland in the future, maybe even gambles like Erik Bedard.

Bullpen: K-Rod is obviously the closer, like him or not. Feliciano will be back and has been fantastic, I just hope his arm doesn't fall off after breaking the Mets' single season games record 2 years in a row. Green will probably back which could be good if his new delivery holds up for an entire season. Stokes is serviceable. I see Parnell sticking in the bullpen until he develops another pitch. That being said, they still need another arm or two. They declined J.J. Putz option (rightfully so) but unless a team comes knocking on the door for him to get a chance at closing, I'd be more than interested in bringing him back on an incentive-laden deal (he's expressed interest in it)...it'd give the Mets a chance to let that deal pay dividends. Plus there really aren't that many good releivers on the market.

Bench: Omir Santos is good but again, not sure he's a full-time catcher. Alex Cora will likely be back...which I don't mind, he's a good filler guy that got exposed last year from too much playing time. Plus he is good in the clubhouse...I just hope they don't let their emotions get in the way and give him a 2-year deal ala Marlon Anderson and Julio Franco. Cory Sullivan is probably the reserve outfielder, which is fine with me. Not sure about Tatis, I hope the Mets aren't blinded by his hot streak in September...cause he grounded into like 4383482 DPs the rest of the year.
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Old 11-07-2009, 01:37 AM   #69
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I would pick up Holliday once his value goes down significantly. I mean if Holliday wants a 3 maybe a 4 year deal I'd consider it but 6 or 7 is way to long for the guy. And JJ Hardy was all ready traded? Judging by the Red Sox some what need at Short Stop I would have thought the Red Sox would have at least tried to trade for him.
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Old 11-07-2009, 04:56 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Big Vito 22 View Post
I don't think Reyes is really an immature headcase. And even if you wanted to classify him as that, the fact is he isn't being traded and, if healthy, he is a top 10 player in the league.

Health is obviously a HUGE concern for the Mets. The 2008 disaster must have set some sort of record for injuries. The fact is if you get totally healthy years from Wright, Beltran, Reyes, and Santana...that alone should improve the Mets record.

That being said, some major changes must be made.

The way I see it, there are two primary concerns for the Mets - getting a power bat in the lineup and getting a #2 starter. Really, I don't even know if I could pick between those two needs, because there are sound arguments both ways.

You could point at the power troubles last year, but I find it hard to believe that David Wright's power numbers aren't going to be better...he was trying too hard to abandon his power to adjust to Citi Field, and Beltran's HRs should go up with a full year as well. But then from the pitching point of view you can say Pelfrey is due to bounce back (traditionally pitchers struggle the first year after they reach over 200 innings, which he went through already) and that would be key.

The Wilpons told Omar that he would have all the financial help he needs...but I'll believe it when I see it. In a town with the Yankees, having all the financial help you need would mean abandoning any sort of budget and going all out to get anybody you think would make your team better. I would feel unbelievably good about this team if they were to sign Matt Holliday AND John Lackey...but I realistically can't see it happening. According to Cot's Baseball Contracts, the payroll for 2010 right now is about $92 million (as opposed to nearly $150 million this year)...but that number doesn't factor in the raises some guys will be getting in arbitration, etc. So...I really don't even know how they are going to approach this.

Hitting: If the core is back and healthy then Wright, Beltran, and Reyes is incredible. Add a guaranteed power bat and now we're talking. But whether they get one or not...I want them to get a righty first baseman to platoon with Murph (I love Murph, but I don't want to totally bestow the 2010 job to him...get a cheap option like Troy Glaus or something). I love Delgado, but I think it's time for both sides to move on and let him DH somewhere. Also although Castillo had a good year, if any team is willing to take him I think you have to do it and sign Orlando Hudson. They'll also probably get a 1 year deal for a catcher since they want Thole to start in AAA and don't view Santos as an everyday guy. Also hope to see continued development from Jeff Francoeur.

Rotation: Johan's had this bone chip surgery before supposedly and he said he'll be fine. Hbut the only way you'd be able to trade him is for an equally bad (or worse) cope he's right, cause he's absolutely key, as is Pelfrey having a bounce back year. I'd dump Perez but the only way you could get rid of him is by taking in an equally bad (or worse) contract. Maine is solid enough to find a spot, and I hope maybe Niese can get a shot. But regardless, they need someone else. I'd love Lackey...but if they get Holliday I don't see him in the plans. Marquis is interested in the Mets but he just SCREAMS contract year...so I dunno. I'm guessing we'll be hearing a lot about fringe guys like Jon Garland in the future, maybe even gambles like Erik Bedard.

Bullpen: K-Rod is obviously the closer, like him or not. Feliciano will be back and has been fantastic, I just hope his arm doesn't fall off after breaking the Mets' single season games record 2 years in a row. Green will probably back which could be good if his new delivery holds up for an entire season. Stokes is serviceable. I see Parnell sticking in the bullpen until he develops another pitch. That being said, they still need another arm or two. They declined J.J. Putz option (rightfully so) but unless a team comes knocking on the door for him to get a chance at closing, I'd be more than interested in bringing him back on an incentive-laden deal (he's expressed interest in it)...it'd give the Mets a chance to let that deal pay dividends. Plus there really aren't that many good releivers on the market.

Bench: Omir Santos is good but again, not sure he's a full-time catcher. Alex Cora will likely be back...which I don't mind, he's a good filler guy that got exposed last year from too much playing time. Plus he is good in the clubhouse...I just hope they don't let their emotions get in the way and give him a 2-year deal ala Marlon Anderson and Julio Franco. Cory Sullivan is probably the reserve outfielder, which is fine with me. Not sure about Tatis, I hope the Mets aren't blinded by his hot streak in September...cause he grounded into like 4383482 DPs the rest of the year.
I respectfully disagree on some of this.

While I agree that Reyes isn't getting traded, I think we're at the point where if someone calls and asks about him that you have to listen. To me, there's just too many instances where the guy obviously didn't have his head in the game and made complete boneheaded plays for me not to wonder. I won't start with the whole glove on the ground incident.

The more and more I see of David Wright, the more I see a guy who can do anything on a diamond but is not a leader. Sure, he says all the right things and conducts properly but I don't know what's missing. He's essentially Carlos Beltran, a guy who can do anything on a diamond but not a leader. If its not him and not Beltran and certainly not Reyes, where's the leadership coming from on this team?

Onto more tangible things:

Guys like Garland don't fit here. The Mets didn't fail last year because of a taxed bullpen as in previous years, they failed due to injuries and suspect starting pitching. Marquis is decent, but meh. As you said, a number 2 starter is needed. Not someone just to fill out the end of the rotation.

The biggest issue is the Mets are locked up in key spots. Yeah, Hudson is an upgrade, but who takes Castillo's contract without us paying most of that deal? Yeah, Murphy can play 1st, but there needs to be a better glove there and we know that defense isnt really Murphy's thing. Admittedly, he wasn't awful at first but is still learning the position. There's talent in the free agent market but how much of it really fits? I don't see Bay leaving and coming to the NL again and Holliday is probably going to the higest bidder. In my opinion, the team is very broken and there arent a whole lot of ways to fix it. More likely than not, the team is going to have to take on some bad contracts on high risk high reward guys to possibly improve.
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Old 11-07-2009, 12:08 PM   #71
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I think Wright is a leader, whatever that really means. What is a leader but a guy you can count on to consistently produce and be the guy the media usually talks to after games? That's what Wright does. Wright still put up respectable numbers in 2009 despite developing somewhat of a strikeout problem...I think he'll be fine. He's the face of the team.

Actually I think a team might be willing to take on all (or the vast majority of) Castillo's deal, at least that's the sense I'm getting. He was one of the few Mets to stay on the field this year and he had decent numbers. Whether or not the Mets actually make a move though I have no idea.

The Mets' system apparently isn't as barren as I thought it was...in fact most people feel they could pull off a trade for a big name player if they really wanted to. For instance, Adrian Gonzalez is ridiculously affordable for the next 2 years but a lot of people around baseball think he will be traded before the season starts. Could you imagine getting him AND getting a power bat in LF?

Something like

SS Reyes
2B Castillo/Hudson
3B Wright
1B Gonzalez
LF Holliday
CF Beltran
RF Francoeur
C Santos/Thole

Given the cheapness of Gonzo's contract, it's not as implausible as it sounds. His and Beltran's deals both run out after 2011 so you let Beltran go and then give Gonzo the big money. I dunno. But even in that scenario, you'd probably have to part with Pelfrey or Maine to get Gonzo so you still have at least 2 holes to fill in the rotation, plus you are still lacking another bullpen arm. An amazing lineup like that could carry the Mets for the long haul into the postseason, but as we all know when it comes to playoff time...pitching wins championships.

So...it's safe to say the Mets are in a tough spot. They are heading into the 2nd year of a new stadium, ticket prices have gone down but are still quite expensive...they have to sell to their fans that they are trying to win, and they have many holes to fill. Fixing it going to involve spending money and trading away some prospects. The Mets' fanbase is NOT going to want to wait to see if all of their prospects actually pan out. They want to win now. Is it shortsighted? To an extent, yes...and I don't agree with it. But that's the way it goes in NY. I'll part with SOME prospects but only for a proven commodity.

The Phillies are gonna be a tough team to top for years to come...especially since they are beginning to remind me of the Braves when they won the division every year in that every player they pick up turns to gold.
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Old 11-07-2009, 03:15 PM   #72
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Old 11-07-2009, 03:55 PM   #73
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Old 11-07-2009, 04:03 PM   #74
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Old 11-07-2009, 04:57 PM   #75
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As a Yankee fan, I hope the Red Sox sign Holliday. The guy was horrible in Oakland, moved to the NL and batted behind Pujols and inflated the stats.
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Old 11-07-2009, 05:02 PM   #76
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I would like to have Matt Holliday.
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Old 11-07-2009, 05:46 PM   #77
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Well it'd make sense for you, you're in the NL. Sandwich him between Utley and Howard
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Old 11-07-2009, 05:46 PM   #78
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Or Howard and Werth
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Old 11-07-2009, 10:08 PM   #79
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As a Yankee fan, I hope the Red Sox sign Holliday. The guy was horrible in Oakland, moved to the NL and batted behind Pujols and inflated the stats.
I see no reason why they wouldn't sign Bay back. Jason Bay had a really good 2009. I think they are definately gonna sign Bay back unless they happen to trade for a Young Left Fielder. And seeing as how they went against the idea of getting Hardy because the Brewers wanted either Bucholz or Bard for him. I assume that if they wanted a good young Left Fielder the asking price would probably be the same.

But, if the Red Sox don't get Bay back. I would be happy if the Yankees got him instead of Holliday.
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Old 11-07-2009, 10:10 PM   #80
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Bay has already proven he can play in a big city.
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