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Old 11-26-2009, 06:57 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Vito 22 View Post
Source: The Wrestling Observer Newsletter

Now it appears that the ship has sailed on Ziggler nabbing the gold as WWE officials have reportedly “given up on him.”

---

Credit: F4WOnline.com

The latest issue of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter reports that WWE has "given up" on pushing Jack Swagger to superstardom as he has not quite panned out as officials had initially hoped.
Translation: WWE Creative is so uninspired, talentless and visionless but so fearful of their positions that they will simply give up on a wrestler and blame him for his perceived lack of success.
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Old 11-26-2009, 07:06 PM   #42
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This is discrimination against all male cheerleaders and people with lisps.
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Old 11-26-2009, 07:42 PM   #43
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Say what you want, but they look like they're standing still next to Kingston, The Miz and Morrison. Chance or no chance, I don't think either of them would set the world on fire in a big feud at the moment.

I don't think Swagger has the look to be anything more than he is. He needs rebranding. Pull him Raw for a while then have him come back in an Angle type invitational scenario. Every week, he mouths off at the crowd and beats some nobody quickly. He doesn't have the wow factor of a Morrison or Kingston, doesn't have the mic skills of The Miz so is stuck in no-mans land at the moment.

Ziggles is different. He looks like he does have the look, could do with some pyro when he does that hair thing when he comes out and needs to have some matches with someone other than Morrison.

But if it's true about Mysterio - then I hate him even more. If I was Ziggler, I would have taken the drug-midget out.
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:20 PM   #44
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Push them slowly and see how it ends up. I'm still not too into Swagger yet, but he has lots of potential. It takes time to get into your character and the groove of WWE. he could be main eventing in a couple of years.
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:40 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Vito 22 View Post
When he first showed up on the WWE scene a little over a year ago, "The All-American American" was pegged as the future of the company due to his tremendous size. Nowadays, he's considered a comedy figure ranked slightly lower than Chavo Guerrero on the RAW pecking order. Furthermore, some feel he's in danger of becoming "this year's Chris Masters."
Swagger is yet another example of a promising talent that flourished in ECW and/or Smackdown and then got buried on RAW.

Juan - you and I were debating this a few weeks ago (i.e. the fallacy of how the brands are 'structured'). We have debated this a lot. Do you have anything to say here?
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:44 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteinmad View Post
The article on Ziggler looks like it was written in kayfabe. It's like 'You had 26 chances and have failed to win the IC title, therefore you're history'. Ziggler can only do so much if he's booked to lose IC title matches 26 times in a row.
I think you're reading it wrong, I think it's more a matter of "he's lost this many IC title matches, and that leads us to beleive they've given up on him and he isn't ever going to win it."
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:44 PM   #47
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I still fail to see how Swagger has been buried on Raw. He's been doing pretty good for himself as a solid mid-card type.

Kofi was a solid mid-card type just like him until a few weeks ago.
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:57 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lock Jaw View Post
I still fail to see how Swagger has been buried on Raw. He's been doing pretty good for himself as a solid mid-card type.

Kofi was a solid mid-card type just like him until a few weeks ago.
Yup.
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Old 11-26-2009, 10:02 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lock Jaw View Post
I still fail to see how Swagger has been buried on Raw. He's been doing pretty good for himself as a solid mid-card type.

Kofi was a solid mid-card type just like him until a few weeks ago.
Swagger's situation sounds to me like another "he was at the top of a show a few months ago, and now he isn't in main event fueds therefore 'he'z beeing berried coz teh WWE is gay'" situation.
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Old 11-26-2009, 10:07 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KYR View Post
Translation: WWE Creative is so uninspired, talentless and visionless but so fearful of their positions that they will simply give up on a wrestler and blame him for his perceived lack of success.
If he were successful, it's Vince's victory.

If he failed, it's the writer's fault.

Lose-lose to be honest.
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Old 11-26-2009, 10:22 PM   #51
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And some other things to go along with this...though the opposite:

---

Credit: F4WOnline.com

Part of why WWE is pushing Kofi Kingston to the top if because they feel they need another African-American babyface star and they had given up on several other stars that were picked for the spot.

The other two stars who WWE have the most faith in right now are Sheamus, who is a workout partner of Triple H, and Drew McIntyre, who Triple H and Shawn Michaels have endorsed.

---

So Kofi is only getting this huge push now because he's black they gave up on giving MVP or Henry that spot...should have known his exciting in-ring work wasn't the reason he was getting the spot.

and Sheamus/Drew, while talented, would not be where they are without the DX endorsements. Glad to see politics still alive and well in WWE.
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Old 11-26-2009, 10:34 PM   #52
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Truth be told tho, Mark Henry, despite how good he's been lately, has no business holding a world title. He should be what Kane is: the beatable monster. Beatable, but still no one to fuck with.

MVP is really charismatic, and he's a lot more entertaining than during his power ranger days. Dude should be the next Chris Jericho. Tease the title wins and build him up as able to hang with the main eventers, without actually being in the main event.

I believe I've made occasional mention of the 2 tiered midcard of the Attitude Era and how good it was.
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Old 11-26-2009, 10:47 PM   #53
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I think MVP woulda been awesome during the attitude era,he was good on the mic as a heel and he has an attitude,if we werent in a pg world MVP would be rolling right now.
I dont agree with vito 22 about the race thing cos evan bourne is getting a lot of time on Raw and hes a tiny white guy,colour has nothing to do with talent
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Old 11-26-2009, 10:50 PM   #54
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Too bad MVP was in prison during the Attitude Era
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Old 11-26-2009, 11:12 PM   #55
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Too bad MVP was in prison during the Attitude Era
Apparently MVP gave such good head in prison he was awarded a replica WWF Championship belt so technically he wore the WWF Title during the attutude era
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Old 11-26-2009, 11:34 PM   #56
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What?
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Old 11-26-2009, 11:35 PM   #57
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Old 11-27-2009, 12:49 AM   #58
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I think this is a product, obviously of poor booking and character progression... but moreso of the roster split. Being as each roster is so shallow, you can be 4 places either way in the pecking order and be on the cusp of the main event, to virtually a jobber. If they had each roster with say 5 exclusive show stars, and the rest on both shows, or even all 3.... they could show progression through the ranks more clearly and let a string of results get the guy over. Kurt Angle's first year in WWE was awesome, because he had 8 or 9 different guys, each getting more challenging to fued with. How could anybody get the same thing on one brand thesedays?

Anyway, my question is why are so many of the younger talent heels? It's blaitant by definition that ultimately, they are going to lose alot of their battles and when it comes to establishing wrestlers to the fans and getting them over as mainstays, getting those victories is important, and conditioning the crowds to cheer you can only help, unless you are a very good heel, which takes the right kind of personality, which I don't really think Swagger or Ziggler are. You know, if they more often than not lose, and they aren't the best heatseekers on the roster, they are dead in the water.
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Old 11-27-2009, 12:56 AM   #59
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Another issue is how much do the RAW writers suffer from treating youth wrestlers as personal pet projects or "toys" that last as long as they are interested and not how good or bad the young wrestler is. They had that problem for a while where it seemed every new wrestler was given maybe a month for a push or feud then dropped in favor of a new wrestler.

With the way ECW is structured and how it has fewer wrestlers, it would be harder for something like this to occur and Smackdown seems to be very focused and planned out when its using wrestlers.
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Old 11-27-2009, 01:05 AM   #60
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I think giving the guy with a lisp a last name that starts with S is a bit uncool of them
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Old 11-27-2009, 01:17 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lock Jaw View Post
I still fail to see how Swagger has been buried on Raw. He's been doing pretty good for himself as a solid mid-card type.

Kofi was a solid mid-card type just like him until a few weeks ago.
To be fair, Punk was "in the doghouse" like 500 times since debuting in WWE, so just keep that in mind.
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Old 11-27-2009, 01:28 AM   #62
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Yeah, I can't get behind these stories. People were calling "buried" on Ziggler the moment he didn't win the IC Title. It seemed to me like Michael Hayes was just making Ziggler work for the eventual title win. And he's gotten to the stage where Ziggler winning the title is just not as interesting as him not winning it. I agree that he needs a new program, though.

Granted, Ziggler was eliminated quickly at Survivor Series, but just prior to that, he technically got to pin the IC Champion with his finishing move in a 2/3 Falls Match. This was also a really solid match, quality-wise. Ziggler is just in a transference period, where he needs to find the next angle to wow in. Perhaps someone can start banging Maria, and Ziggler can take exception? The dude needs to be rebuilt with a few wins over guys like Jimmy Wang Yang, though (which would be good matches).

As for Swagger -- I think he has definitely lost a lot of his love, but the WWE has been very give-and-take with him. The dude has not been treated like a jobber yet, and there is no way he is below Chavo Guerrero on the pecking order. Sheamus is getting a push over him, but so what? Eventually Swagger's ring work will be noticed again, and he will once again be pushed. Next year he will probably end up on the SmackDown! roster and will again be seen as a "future main eventer."
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Old 11-27-2009, 01:33 AM   #63
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For what it's worth, I just caught the Superstars replay tonight and during the R-Truth/Ziggler match they mentioned that Ziggy is "in the 5th month of a 6-month plan to become a champion" and repeatedly brought up the new issue of WWE magazine which apparently features him in an article about "the champions of tomorrow."

If anything, it looks like we might be closer to a Ziggler IC title win than we were a few months ago. Like I said before, I have a lot of confidence in his ability. As long as he keeps bringing the goods in the ring, he'll be fine. If anything, his IC title win has probably been delayed due to the title being put on the back burner in favor of the cross-brand Miz/Morrison feud between Bragging Rights and Survivor Series.
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Old 11-27-2009, 02:07 AM   #64
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Yeah. I'm not sure I buy this yet.
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Old 11-27-2009, 02:10 AM   #65
Destor
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...lol, I totally haven't missed the dirt sheets.
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Old 11-27-2009, 02:51 AM   #66
Ol Dirty Dastard
boop/bop/beep
 
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who cares
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Old 11-27-2009, 07:28 AM   #67
Impeccable
Tag Team Wrestling Mark!
 
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Should just change their names to Ziggles and Swaggles and form a tag team. Then they can be a comedy tag team in the joke of a tag division.
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Old 11-27-2009, 07:40 AM   #68
Sixx
LUV CABBAGE/H8 JEWS
 
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Niggles.
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Old 11-27-2009, 07:59 AM   #69
Hanso Amore
You can't teach that
 
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Quote:
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Should just change their names to Ziggles and Swaggles and form a tag team. Then they can be a comedy tag team in the joke of a tag division.
Swagger and HornSwoggle

Swaggle and Swoggle
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Old 11-27-2009, 08:28 AM   #70
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Dammit! Fuck you Ryan Clark!
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Old 11-27-2009, 09:30 AM   #71
Impeccable
Tag Team Wrestling Mark!
 
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:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanso View Post
Swagger and HornSwoggle

Swaggle and Swoggle
Seriously dude, unless we actually want to watch that, I suggest we stop now...I'm sure writers trawl the net for stuff!
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Old 11-27-2009, 12:43 PM   #72
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We could have a skit where Swaggle and Swoggle play Boggle and make boondoggle while they oggle a girl in goggles and toggle.....fuck thats all I got
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Old 11-27-2009, 12:52 PM   #73
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With some Fraggles.
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Old 11-27-2009, 02:00 PM   #74
Loose Cannon
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Obviously those articles are stretching the truth, but I could see some truth to it, especially with Swagger. I keep saying it over and over and we keep seeing it over and over. Guys are pushed like crazy for a bit and then the WWE just pushes them back down again. It's certainly happened with Swagger. "Given Up" is not the proper terms just yet with him, but you can easily see a fall.


With Ziggler, I never saw him making it to the top anyway, so he is always going to be in the mid card and probably let go within 2 years.


And with the WWE being by FAR the only wreslting show in town, we will continue to see the push/quick depush of younger talent. The midcard has such a high turnover
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Old 11-27-2009, 06:53 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon View Post
Obviously those articles are stretching the truth, but I could see some truth to it, especially with Swagger. I keep saying it over and over and we keep seeing it over and over. Guys are pushed like crazy for a bit and then the WWE just pushes them back down again. It's certainly happened with Swagger. "Given Up" is not the proper terms just yet with him, but you can easily see a fall.


With Ziggler, I never saw him making it to the top anyway, so he is always going to be in the mid card and probably let go within 2 years.


And with the WWE being by FAR the only wreslting show in town, we will continue to see the push/quick depush of younger talent. The midcard has such a high turnover
It's called being drafted to Raw.
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Old 11-27-2009, 07:00 PM   #76
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R-V-D
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Old 11-27-2009, 08:24 PM   #77
HBPunk
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that whole 'mr.ziggles' chant could have killed ziggler and morrisons careers there and then, WORST....CHANT...EVER
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Old 11-27-2009, 10:12 PM   #78
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Are you kidding? "Mr. Ziggles" reminded me of how Edge got the fans to chant "You suck!" during Kurt Angle's entrance. It gives the fans something to latch themselves to, and allows the fans a personal way of giving the character heat.
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Old 11-27-2009, 10:30 PM   #79
Kane Knight
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Quote:
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that whole 'mr.ziggles' chant could have killed ziggler and morrisons careers there and then, WORST....CHANT...EVER
*clap clap clap clap clap*
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