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Old 12-08-2012, 08:31 PM   #761
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If that deal is for real, the market for pitchers is going to be completely skewed. He's good but not THAT good and certainly doesn't deserve that contract. Dodgers are becoming like Al Davis.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:36 PM   #762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vito Cruz View Post
The Dodgers' offer to Greinke is 6 years, $145 million.

$24 million a year. A guy like King Felix will probably get like $30 million a year at this point.
Felix would deserve a contract like that moreso than Greinke, IMO
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:16 PM   #763
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King Felix would get CC money, if not more.

Probably gonna sign Ryu on the cheap now or he's on the red eye home tomorrow.
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:34 PM   #764
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Me neither but it dosent mean its false. It actually seemes highly plausible. Just look at the marlins. Then there is this great quote:

"I can take a $4 million dollar profit, make it look like a $2 million loss and get ever major accounting firm to agree with me."
-Toronto Blue Jays President Paul Beaston.

Edit: this refers to screetch and smelly meatballs posts.
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:39 PM   #765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
Me neither but it dosent mean its false. It actually seemes highly plausible. Just look at the marlins. Then there is this great quote:

"I can take a $4 million dollar profit, make it look like a $2 million loss and get ever major accounting firm to agree with me."
-Toronto Blue Jays President Paul Beaston.

Edit: this refers to screetch and smelly meatballs posts.
Wasn't "lol-ing" out of disbelief, for the record. Would be hilarious if it's true.
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:27 PM   #766
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I like the trade for the Phillies. The Rangers are paying most of his salary and the Phillies get a 3B better than anything on the market. Philly is going to love Michael Young. He's right handed, fills their void until Cody Asche is ready, and a good clubhouse presence.

Dunno how Greinke is going to work out. The guy is a great pitcher, but isn't worth $24 million a year.
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:59 PM   #767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Naitch View Post
I like the trade for the Phillies. The Rangers are paying most of his salary and the Phillies get a 3B better than anything on the market. Philly is going to love Michael Young. He's right handed, fills their void until Cody Asche is ready, and a good clubhouse presence.

Dunno how Greinke is going to work out. The guy is a great pitcher, but isn't worth $24 million a year.
Boring. Still waiting for your thoughts on kenny williams and billy bean.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:32 AM   #768
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Oh now you're just trolling.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:38 AM   #769
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So you have no thoughts on if they are good GMs?
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:03 AM   #770
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Let it go.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:06 AM   #771
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Hilarious that some people would rather have Galvis//Fransden than a "washed up" Michael Young.

6 million for him is great. Looking forward to seeing him live and in color.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:27 AM   #772
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:43 AM   #773
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Shohei Otani has reversed his decision on coming to the States to play in the MLB and instead will stay in Japan and play for the Nippon Ham Fighters.
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:18 AM   #774
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The Young deal isn't bad, honestly. The man has multiple 200 hit seasons, and sure not many left but it's better than Polanco and he's isn't an inept old man. He's been an All-Star at 3 different positions and I think that increases his value further, especially since they are only paying a portion of the contract. He'll have a fine season in Philly.
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:56 AM   #775
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Details on the Greinke contract. There isn't a no-trade clause attached to a deal, but he can opt-out out of the 3rd year.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:00 AM   #776
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There is a huge drop-off in the starting pitching free agent market after Greinke. I think the Mets could wind up getting a much better offer for Dickey than they were getting in the winter meetings.

It's said that the Rangers would part with Mike Olt for Dickey. Olt would need to play LF everyday though...he's played LF a bit in the minors but the Mets have had many infield prospects have to move to the OF and ultimately fail.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:43 AM   #777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by screech View Post
Let it go.
*sigh*

Look, I'm just trying to get some sort of conversation going about Baseball strategy and philosophy. Ill talk about it all bloody day.

I just get bored of the random news update followed by one "seems like a good move" post. I can read the same articles, I want to know what people think.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:48 AM   #778
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Hilarious that some people would rather have Galvis//Fransden than a "washed up" Michael Young.

6 million for him is great. Looking forward to seeing him live and in color.
He will be 1 to 2 war player. 6 mil is fine. Dont expect an all star
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:52 AM   #779
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WAR is retarded. There's a discussion for you.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:56 AM   #780
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7 to 1 in Vegas to win the WS..suckers lol
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:08 PM   #781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Naitch View Post
WAR is retarded. There's a discussion for you.
Great question, TN!

Its very hard to quantify so many items into one all encompassing stat, but WAR comes close, though it has its flaws. While it is the one stat that is used to combine both offense and defense, the real fun comes in that WAR is context, league, and park neutral which means it can be used to compare players from different teams, leagues, and even across eras.

Is it everything? Nope, not even close. I have issues with it in that it does not take into account "styles" of players such as number of pitches per at bat. If player A and B are the same in every way, but player A sees 3 PPAB, while player B sees 6, you take player B everytime. WAR does not take things like that or other things like pickoff moves into account. This limits it in my mind as an omni tool.

When it comes to SABR stats, they need to be used and incorporated because they are valuable tools, but they are not the be all end all as the Moneyball movie would make it seem, but rather only 1/6th of how to go about constructing a Baseball organization.

boner
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:13 PM   #782
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Details on the Greinke contract. There isn't a no-trade clause attached to a deal, but he can opt-out out of the 3rd year.
ClockShot, you provide many news updates, but I still have no idea what your team is. What is it, and can you please explain why?
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:21 PM   #783
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Clockshot is a Yankees fan. He enjoys posting news updates.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:27 PM   #784
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Well, Frank, my philosophy is more or less from the Scioscia school more so than the typical AL style. As a Yankees fan I admit that watching the games can be torturous and monotonous due to the fact that they take every pitch and games last over 3 hours. I'm more of an old school Pete Rose Ty Cobb, fire in the belly type of player. Guys like that- Cervelli, Paul O'Neil, Bubba Crosby for example- always appealed to me more than the big money guys like A-Rod. Aside from Jeter and a handful of others they just don't seem to have the passion I enjoy from the y
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:29 PM   #785
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Well, Frank, my philosophy is more or less from the Scioscia school more so than the typical AL style. As a Yankees fan I admit that watching the games can be torturous and monotonous due to the fact that they take every pitch and games last over 3 hours. I'm more of an old school Pete Rose-Ty Cobb, fire in the belly type of player . Guys like that- Cervelli, Paul O'Neil, Bubba Crosby for example- always appealed to me more than the big money guys like A-Rod. Aside from Jeter and a handful of others they just don't seem to have the passion I enjoy from the young and hungry baseball players who go out on the field to make a point through the "dirty" work aspects of the game.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:52 PM   #786
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Clockshot is a Yankees fan. He enjoys posting news updates.
Correct on both. Baseball offseason is a season in itself, the money and trades going down, the big signing to the baseball club nobody knew was in the mix. It's all exciting, imo.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:54 PM   #787
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Totally agree.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:09 PM   #788
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Well, Frank, my philosophy is more or less from the Scioscia school more so than the typical AL style. As a Yankees fan I admit that watching the games can be torturous and monotonous due to the fact that they take every pitch and games last over 3 hours. I'm more of an old school Pete Rose-Ty Cobb, fire in the belly type of player . Guys like that- Cervelli, Paul O'Neil, Bubba Crosby for example- always appealed to me more than the big money guys like A-Rod. Aside from Jeter and a handful of others they just don't seem to have the passion I enjoy from the young and hungry baseball players who go out on the field to make a point through the "dirty" work aspects of the game.
Thats what happens when you make your first couple million i guess.

The guys who want it the most constantly make adjustments to get to The Show while some of them think that they can continue to do what has gotten them to high A ball and they will make it eventually. The Cubs had Bryan Lahair last year, who always was making adjustments until it finally worked well enough that he got his moment in the sun and a few million bucks to play in Japan if nothing else, while someone like Felix Pie never wanted to fix his loopy swing (I call it a poor impression of Jim Edmonds).

Some guys have the fight in them, but once they get set for life, that fight gets dialed down because, lets face it: its about the cash and whatever else comes after can be taken or left. Thats why we root for the Juan Pierres (where is Mr. Pierre?) of the world because they always show up early to do shit like bunting drills.

Grinder ball only gets you so far though. You still need that natural talent.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:14 PM   #789
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Correct on both. Baseball offseason is a season in itself, the money and trades going down, the big signing to the baseball club nobody knew was in the mix. It's all exciting, imo.
YES! Baseball is every f'n day.

Its the only sport that is always in motion during the offseason. The other sports' offseasons are limited by things like roster size and overall number of moves to be made (NBA) or because everything happens in a short period of time (NFL).
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:17 PM   #790
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No doubt, I refer more to the mentality and ambition than raw ability. Jeter has the drive and does the grinder stuff even though he is the shit of baseball. A guy can have A-Rods talent but I want the mentality and the little "extra", so to speak. Just a personal preference.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:31 PM   #791
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Those type of players are so hard to find. The quintessential team captain.

People who watch Jeter play probably dont get all the hate for the guy because you see what he does in every aspect of the game on a day-to-day basis. Championship teams need guys like that to rally around. Just know that he is indeed one of the most overrated defenders in history. Its true. Its true.
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Old 12-09-2012, 03:05 PM   #792
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His defense is good but not great. He's no slouch but he's not a gold glover either. Just safe and solid. But the play he made in The ALCS when he broke his ankle is what I'm talking about. Dude gives his all on every play even if he's not as acrobatically gifted as Ozzie Smith or as sure handed as Omar Vizquel.
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Old 12-09-2012, 03:08 PM   #793
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*sigh*

Look, I'm just trying to get some sort of conversation going about Baseball strategy and philosophy. Ill talk about it all bloody day.

I just get bored of the random news update followed by one "seems like a good move" post. I can read the same articles, I want to know what people think.
He didn't want to answer your question. There is no point in asking it four more times. Move on to something else.
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Old 12-09-2012, 03:11 PM   #794
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We discuss the big moves here. If no one wants to comment on one, it gets glossed over and we move forward. Not a hard concept.
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Old 12-09-2012, 03:51 PM   #795
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He will be 1 to 2 war player. 6 mil is fine. Dont expect an all star
I don't give a damn about WAR. He is way better than the platoon most are suggesting and better than Polanco.

I do wish they hadn't whiffed on getting him years ago when Texas wanted Utley, though.
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:23 PM   #796
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So Greinke to Dodgers.

I'd worry about him struggling, and not recovering, given his past anxiety issues. Guys struggle with big contracs, he just seems the type that *might* have a tough time over coming.
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:32 PM   #797
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He didn't want to answer your question. There is no point in asking it four more times. Move on to something else.
If you dont want to answer questions, dont ask any yourself.

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We discuss the big moves here. If no one wants to comment on one, it gets glossed over and we move forward. Not a hard concept.
Oh ok, didnt realize responding to his....wait why am I talking to you again?

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I don't give a damn about WAR. He is way better than the platoon most are suggesting and better than Polanco.
Why dont you like WAR? Did it ask you a question once?
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:38 PM   #798
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Quote:
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His defense is good but not great. He's no slouch but he's not a gold glover either. Just safe and solid. But the play he made in The ALCS when he broke his ankle is what I'm talking about. Dude gives his all on every play even if he's not as acrobatically gifted as Ozzie Smith or as sure handed as Omar Vizquel.
Was thinking about his contract negotiations before the 2011 season. Who was being more of a dick about it? The player or the team? Just remember a pissing contest through the media for a while.
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:56 PM   #799
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Love how you told me not to ask questions while quoting a post in which I did not ask a question.

You pestered triple naitch for half a page about answering you, then got pissy when I told you to move forward. Not sure where the rest of your bitching is coming from, though.
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:02 PM   #800
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Quote:
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So Greinke to Dodgers.

I'd worry about him struggling, and not recovering, given his past anxiety issues. Guys struggle with big contracs, he just seems the type that *might* have a tough time over coming.
It's possible, but LA could be "his spot." I know the Angels aren't exactly in LA, but he was still in a bigger market than MIL and did well.
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