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Old 05-12-2010, 10:46 AM   #1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon View Post
I am assuming the real mother appearing to Jacob's brother was the Smoke Monster and that "It" took out that whole camp.
I kinda figured that Jacob throwing his brother (why did they never mention his name? Did she never give him one?) into the light was what released the black smoke monster.
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Old 05-11-2010, 11:15 PM   #2
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yea, exactly. Innocent, good way to put it. we knew nothing back then and all of us had some many different theories going through our heads.
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Old 05-11-2010, 11:23 PM   #3
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It was the same way I felt at the end of last week when the four finalists were on the beach and they took a moment to break down finally. It was just a small scene where they were alone and it was like years of what they had been through all came rushing forward. Totally different scenes but they made me feel the same way.
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Old 05-11-2010, 11:33 PM   #4
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I liked the little flashback scene. Didn't care about the Adam and Eve storyline really, but thought it just flowed well and was a good reflective scene. Will give the eps that.
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:11 AM   #5
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That was probably the worst episode of Lost I can recall.

I'm not complaining that we didn't get more answers, or more explanations or whatever. The episode was just written in such a way that it moved incredibly slowly and painfully to give the few points that it had to give.
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:24 AM   #6
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I kept debating myself in my brain about whether or not it was Allison Janney playing the mother. First I was like oh yeah def her but then later I was like no way def not. Shoulda gone with my instincts,
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:58 AM   #7
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OK well I did stay up in the end and I did watch it.

Mmmmm....

I thought it was a good episode. But I feel as though it's been misplaced this far down the line, I feel as though it should've been in season 5, but it really didn't have a space there, I dunno.

Still didn't explain anything about what the Island is, how 'Mother' came to be and how she knows all about the rules and what needs to be done.

Nothing about the statue which I thought we would see.

I feel as though these holes will be revealed in the finale, maybe.

So the MIB in season 6....I assume it is totally the smoke monster mixed with the memories and nature of Jacob's brother, since his body is now in the caves. Same with Locke, his body is in the ground, but the MIB seems to know Locke's entire existence.

And all the stuff about 'good people' and being flawed and killers doesn't apply as much as I thought since 'Mother' and 'Jacob' are murderers.

One big thing... how in the blue hell did 'Mother' burn the whole village and kill everyone?
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Old 05-12-2010, 07:46 AM   #8
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Yeah I wasn't overly impressed by this episode in all honesty. And it's not often I would say that about Lost, but I was looking forward to this episode for weeks. I still thought it was a decent episode, but not for the 3rd to last episode ever, and I was definitely expecting more clear cut answers, but ah well.

I'm full of flu though so that could generally be making me think negatively.
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Old 05-12-2010, 08:25 AM   #9
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Its not that I was really alot of expecting huge answers or reveals, its the episode was done very poorly I felt.
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:19 AM   #10
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I hope everyone upset about the lack of answers realizes that if they had given a more concrete explanation of what the island "is" or what the statue is you would be just as disappointed, right?

Any technical explanation would just come across as completely absurd. I feel a lot of people have unreasonable expectations.

I thought this episode was just fine, maybe a little slow but still interesting
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Old 05-12-2010, 10:16 AM   #11
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I hope everyone upset about the lack of answers realizes that if they had given a more concrete explanation of what the island "is" or what the statue is you would be just as disappointed, right?

Any technical explanation would just come across as completely absurd. I feel a lot of people have unreasonable expectations.

I thought this episode was just fine, maybe a little slow but still interesting
stop being such a buzzkill.... I WANT ANSWERS
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:30 AM   #12
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I don't think so mate. At this point I am just wanting to know what is what. Been watching it for 6 years and with 2 episodes left, it is now at the point where getting some answers, some definition of what has kept us glued for the whole time is required to make the journey complete. Its been great, all the cliffhangers, the slow build ups where things are gradually revealed. But I feel as though ANY answer, as long as it's true to the nature of the show, is what is needed to make the puzzle complete. No one makes a puzzle and destroy it before the final few pieces are in place.

I don't mind if there is a degree of mystery left, but too many corners are being cut I feel at the moment. If you compare the pace of season 1 or 2 to this one - I dunno, they coulda spread this season out by another half at least. And again, fair enough that's the way LOST has gone and I love it, but I also want answers.

Even in that one episode, things are shown and revealed but it doesn't correlate to what we have seen....

who finished the construction of the donkey wheel after the well was filled back in? How come it was frozen in the season 4 finale?

I dunno, we'll see how the finale ends up I guess.
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Old 05-12-2010, 10:36 AM   #13
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I also found it interesting last night that Jacob's brother can see the dead like Hurley can
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Old 05-12-2010, 10:48 AM   #14
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yea, I just actually thought about that this morning and I think that is correct. I originaly assumed it was the Monster appearing as the original mother to Jacob's brother, but yea, "It" was not released yet. So it must of been the other 'mother'
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Old 05-12-2010, 10:50 AM   #15
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I don't think the monster took out the camp since it wasn't released at that point, and why would he? the camp were men of greed and badness, it's kind of people.
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Old 05-12-2010, 10:53 AM   #16
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OK I wrote that out then went to get a drink and posted it so ignore it.

Still, how did she take out the whole camp?

And there is also something else that is interesting that I have overlooked. The smoke monster as an entity wants to leave the Island, as does the MIB as a person - combined, and it's one determined 'thing'. Yet Jacob has appeared in all of the candidates lives at some point - so how and why is Jacob able to leave willy nilly?
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Old 05-12-2010, 10:59 AM   #17
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Im not necessarily looking for answers as to how things work, but rather why...For instance...

I know what the Statue of Tawaret is. Its a statue. Fine. I want to know who put it there and who built the temples.

I dont want to know how the circle of ash protects you from the monster, but why is it ash. Why isnt it a circle of carrots?

I am fine with supernatural explanations of things, but I want to know how we got from Jacob kills his brother, fast forward 2,000 years to them sitting on the beach.

That is such a huge timeframe to not see in what has become the focal point of the show.
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:04 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by wwe2222 View Post

I am fine with supernatural explanations of things, but I want to know how we got from Jacob kills his brother, fast forward 2,000 years to them sitting on the beach.

That is such a huge timeframe to not see in what has become the focal point of the show.

Well the guy you see sitting on the beach with Jacob is the SMoke Monster appearing as Jacob's brother.
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:15 AM   #19
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Well the guy you see sitting on the beach with Jacob is the SMoke Monster appearing as Jacob's brother.
?? So this is the first time they have seen each other in 2,000 years? It doesnt make any sense.

Im going to assume MiB cant leave the Island because he suffered a fate worse than death, where he is ultimately trapped as this smoke monster.

Did going into the glowing cave release some sort of ancient evil and thats why Jacob is there? The mother made it seem like they were there to protect the energy source while Jacob says he is there to keep the smoke monster from leaving. So which is it?
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:22 AM   #20
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?? So this is the first time they have seen each other in 2,000 years? It doesnt make any sense.

Im going to assume MiB cant leave the Island because he suffered a fate worse than death, where he is ultimately trapped as this smoke monster.

Did going into the glowing cave release some sort of ancient evil and thats why Jacob is there? The mother made it seem like they were there to protect the energy source while Jacob says he is there to keep the smoke monster from leaving. So which is it?

Yeah here is my current take....

The white light that Mother said needed to be protected is 'the heart of the Island' and what it is, is something that is inside every man - I think it takes the right man or right person to 'have it' or guard it in this case. If the wrong type of soul claims it, the power becomes darkness and evil. Mother thought MIB was special, in a good way. He is the 'Bad Twin' of the two.
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:25 AM   #21
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?? So this is the first time they have seen each other in 2,000 years? It doesnt make any sense.

Im going to assume MiB cant leave the Island because he suffered a fate worse than death, where he is ultimately trapped as this smoke monster.

Did going into the glowing cave release some sort of ancient evil and thats why Jacob is there? The mother made it seem like they were there to protect the energy source while Jacob says he is there to keep the smoke monster from leaving. So which is it?
what makes you think it's the first time they've seen each other in 2000 years?

Yea, the cave/light thing I am trying to make sense in my head. To me, it's like if someone (a corrupt human) who is not pure went into the cave, it releases the monster. Dunno, it's a reach, but I'm thinking along those lines
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:16 AM   #22
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Well the guy you see sitting on the beach with Jacob is the SMoke Monster appearing as Jacob's brother.
Yes this is true, but I think part of Jacob's brother still exists. Every scene we have seen him in, esp with Richard, you can tell he is playing the same character, and not just some supernatural smoke entity. I dunno, could be wrong, but when they converse, he comes off as being the guy who really is Jacob's brother. If he was JUST the smoke monster surely his language, gestures would be something alien like?

MIB also recites the exact same thing 'Mother' says about people who come to the Island, 'they come they destroy...etc', it could be the monster 'accessing his memories' like it did with Locke.

Also, when he talks to Richard, he says he was robbed of his humanity and his body. Could just be the actual monster using that as a means of manipulation.

But yeah, too much to cover and answer I think. I think the finale will be awesome don't get me wrong, but I can see a degree of disappointment on the horizon with regard to answers. And answers are important now.
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:34 AM   #23
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Yes this is true, but I think part of Jacob's brother still exists. Every scene we have seen him in, esp with Richard, you can tell he is playing the same character, and not just some supernatural smoke entity. I dunno, could be wrong, but when they converse, he comes off as being the guy who really is Jacob's brother. If he was JUST the smoke monster surely his language, gestures would be something alien like?

MIB also recites the exact same thing 'Mother' says about people who come to the Island, 'they come they destroy...etc', it could be the monster 'accessing his memories' like it did with Locke.

Also, when he talks to Richard, he says he was robbed of his humanity and his body. Could just be the actual monster using that as a means of manipulation.

But yeah, too much to cover and answer I think. I think the finale will be awesome don't get me wrong, but I can see a degree of disappointment on the horizon with regard to answers. And answers are important now.

this is one I am going to disagree with you on and I hope they answer this fully. I think MIB completely died in last night's time. I think the Smoke Monster took over his looks and everything else about him. Like his character. I think the SMoke Monster has the power to do this.
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:10 AM   #24
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Also...

And this is an observation into a possible continuity/timeline error...


As Richard's ship is approaching with Jacob and MIB on the beach...MIB asks Jacob if he has any idea how badly he wants to kill him, to which Jacob answers yes. He then states that one day he will find his loop hole, supposedly so he can leave....So from this we know he wants to kill Jacob and that he wants to leave.

Fast forward to some time later when Richard's ship has arrived and all the events of 'Ab Aeterno' have happened and Jacob is sitting with MIB once again...

Jacob: So you tried to kill me?

MIB: You expect an apology?

Jacob: No, I guess I'm just wondering why you did it?


Things like this just seem like they made a mistake, or have I made a mistake?
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:01 AM   #25
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I am just assuming that the protector of the island has a shit load of powers and can take out an army if they wanted to at any time for a greater cause.

Lot of assuming with this show

dunno about Jacob leaving. Again could be just a thing the protector of the island can do.
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:03 AM   #26
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Yeah. That's one of the thngs I expected to find out in this last episode (Jacob coming and going). It is odd how they've shown the actual MiB (can we pick a name for him now?) and Smokey to have the same motive in leaving.

If it was Jacob's job to protect the light - and he fucked it up - what's did his job become? Keeping smokey on the island?

Did the light become the Smoke Monster? Or was the light keeping the monster at bay? WTF was the light anyway?

How did the mother destroy the village/kill the people and fill the well in by herself? How did the well get fixed and the wheel positioned if 1) it was filled in and 2) the very people who's idea it was (and everyone that knew about the idea) died shortly thereafter?

And we still don't know who built the temple and statue? Just what is the Black Smoke? What's the deal with dying in child birth. etc, etc.

A lot to cover in these last couple episodes.
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:12 AM   #27
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i think you have the instances reversed... i think when richard got there was the first time he tried to kill jacob
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:13 AM   #28
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that ship approaching was the french people... there was a huge storm going on when the black rock approached
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:18 AM   #29
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that ship approaching was the french people... there was a huge storm going on when the black rock approached
No, the ship approaching is the Black Rock. The Statue is still intact during the first MiB/Jacob scene. We know now that it was the Black Rock that crashed into it.

To the point about the conversation...I think Jacob knows MiB wants to kill him, but was sort of saying..."So, you really did try to kill me" as in, you werent just talk, you really tried to do it you SOB.
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:18 AM   #30
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that ship approaching was the french people... there was a huge storm going on when the black rock approached
Na man, not got it wrong...

Them on the beach (The Incident, season 5) was def before when they sat on the log with the bottle of wine (Ab Aeterno, season 6).

It was NOT the french people. They came after.



But yeah, I consider the whole dark and stormy vs daylight and calm thing a big fuck up. I think they decided as they got to that point that they would change it and have the ship destroy the statue - I mean everyone was saying it was 'days away from the Island still' - fuck off it's as clear as daylight how close it is, a mile or two at the most. And a wooden ship up against dense stone statue, and the statue falls? come on!
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Old 05-13-2010, 06:55 PM   #31
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Na man, not got it wrong...

Them on the beach (The Incident, season 5) was def before when they sat on the log with the bottle of wine (Ab Aeterno, season 6).

It was NOT the french people. They came after.



But yeah, I consider the whole dark and stormy vs daylight and calm thing a big fuck up. I think they decided as they got to that point that they would change it and have the ship destroy the statue - I mean everyone was saying it was 'days away from the Island still' - fuck off it's as clear as daylight how close it is, a mile or two at the most. And a wooden ship up against dense stone statue, and the statue falls? come on!
Pretty sure it was the 1,000,000 tons of water that destroyed the statue, not the wooden ship.

And as we've seen in the Lost universe, the weather can change very, very, very quickly
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Old 05-13-2010, 07:24 PM   #32
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Pretty sure it was the 1,000,000 tons of water that destroyed the statue, not the wooden ship.

And as we've seen in the Lost universe, the weather can change very, very, very quickly
They still made the point that the ship hit it and it was destroyed, and even so...the force and power of 1,000,000 tons of water pushing a wooden ship into thick stone...the ship ending up about as wrecked as it would've been if it was just in the ocean?... would be like throwing a beer bottle at a wall. But still I guess I'm nip picking, yet it is one of the answers I wasn't so impressed with.
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:38 AM   #33
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yes, I think the Light and the Smoke are the two higher things, not Jacob and his brother.
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:44 AM   #34
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yes, I think the Light and the Smoke are the two higher things, not Jacob and his brother.
The thing is, why would the darkness, the opposite of 'the light' originate from the light?

And do we even know that that light in the cave is the only one of it's kind? There are pockets of energy/light all over the Island, do we know for sure that is the only one that is truly special and overall more important? - It pretty much seems like the same light/energy as the one in the Swan and the one down the well.
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:40 AM   #35
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this is one I am going to disagree with you on and I hope they answer this fully. I think MIB completely died in last night's time. I think the Smoke Monster took over his looks and everything else about him. Like his character. I think the SMoke Monster has the power to do this.

Yeah I dunno I got nothing serious to go on other than the fact whenever it's been the MIB or Locke, it's like there are times where as if it seems they are two entities, like Venom, a symbiotic force which takes over, but doesn't completely overtake who it 'claims'. Do you think it's a coincidence that as Locke, the monster yelled out 'Don't tell me what I can't do', or that as Jacob's brother he recites the exact same thing 'Mother' said to him as a child? or that the MIB and the monster both want to leave? MIB to find his home, which he explains as Locke, and the monster to 'end everything'?

I dunno, if I am totally wrong about that, then like I said, the monster at least is able to acess and harness the memories/life of whoever it takes the form of.
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:43 AM   #36
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Yeah I dunno I got nothing serious to go on other than the fact whenever it's been the MIB or Locke, it's like there are times where as if it seems they are two entities, like Venom, a symbiotic force which takes over, but doesn't completely overtake who it 'claims'. Do you think it's a coincidence that as Locke, the monster yelled out 'Don't tell me what I can't do', or that as Jacob's brother he recites the exact same thing 'Mother' said to him as a child? or that the MIB and the monster both want to leave? MIB to find his home, which he explains as Locke, and the monster to 'end everything'?

I dunno, if I am totally wrong about that, then like I said, the monster at least is able to acess and harness the memories/life of whoever it takes the form of.
Well im wondering if the monster is trying to humanize his wishes by saying he wants to go home as a way to get sympathy. Perhaps he just wants to leave and wreak havoc.
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:46 AM   #37
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Well im wondering if the monster is trying to humanize his wishes by saying he wants to go home as a way to get sympathy. Perhaps he just wants to leave and wreak havoc.
Yeah I think that is the overall goal of the monster. It was released/manifested by a darkened/troubled soul and so its like 'the game is on' from that point on. If it leave the Island, then it becomes defiant and absolute and will end existence.

Yet it was/is also the goal of Jacob's actual brother. And while he is now sentenced to a suffering worse than death, what true benefit would it be to him if HE left if it meant the unmaking of existence?
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:47 AM   #38
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Jesus, my head is spinning. This is just once aspect of the show, so much more to cover and sort out, I really hope it works.
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:51 AM   #39
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Jesus, my head is spinning. This is just once aspect of the show, so much more to cover and sort out, I really hope it works.
But then why not give Jacob's brother a name?

This leads me to my next point...Jacob's brother constructed the donkey wheel, but never completed it.

As we have seen, later civilizations seemed to have worshipped the smoke monster. I wonder if he appeared to them as a God, offered them protection, and instructed them to finish the wheel, in hopes of moving the Island and getting off it.
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:53 AM   #40
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That's a good theory, and one that must be close to being correct.

I just don't know where to go with it, I mean what does it mean if we don't find out? to me it's kinda a bad thing.
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