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Old 05-12-2010, 11:38 AM   #1081
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yes, I think the Light and the Smoke are the two higher things, not Jacob and his brother.
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:40 AM   #1082
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this is one I am going to disagree with you on and I hope they answer this fully. I think MIB completely died in last night's time. I think the Smoke Monster took over his looks and everything else about him. Like his character. I think the SMoke Monster has the power to do this.

Yeah I dunno I got nothing serious to go on other than the fact whenever it's been the MIB or Locke, it's like there are times where as if it seems they are two entities, like Venom, a symbiotic force which takes over, but doesn't completely overtake who it 'claims'. Do you think it's a coincidence that as Locke, the monster yelled out 'Don't tell me what I can't do', or that as Jacob's brother he recites the exact same thing 'Mother' said to him as a child? or that the MIB and the monster both want to leave? MIB to find his home, which he explains as Locke, and the monster to 'end everything'?

I dunno, if I am totally wrong about that, then like I said, the monster at least is able to acess and harness the memories/life of whoever it takes the form of.
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:43 AM   #1083
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Yeah I dunno I got nothing serious to go on other than the fact whenever it's been the MIB or Locke, it's like there are times where as if it seems they are two entities, like Venom, a symbiotic force which takes over, but doesn't completely overtake who it 'claims'. Do you think it's a coincidence that as Locke, the monster yelled out 'Don't tell me what I can't do', or that as Jacob's brother he recites the exact same thing 'Mother' said to him as a child? or that the MIB and the monster both want to leave? MIB to find his home, which he explains as Locke, and the monster to 'end everything'?

I dunno, if I am totally wrong about that, then like I said, the monster at least is able to acess and harness the memories/life of whoever it takes the form of.
Well im wondering if the monster is trying to humanize his wishes by saying he wants to go home as a way to get sympathy. Perhaps he just wants to leave and wreak havoc.
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:44 AM   #1084
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yes, I think the Light and the Smoke are the two higher things, not Jacob and his brother.
The thing is, why would the darkness, the opposite of 'the light' originate from the light?

And do we even know that that light in the cave is the only one of it's kind? There are pockets of energy/light all over the Island, do we know for sure that is the only one that is truly special and overall more important? - It pretty much seems like the same light/energy as the one in the Swan and the one down the well.
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:46 AM   #1085
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Well im wondering if the monster is trying to humanize his wishes by saying he wants to go home as a way to get sympathy. Perhaps he just wants to leave and wreak havoc.
Yeah I think that is the overall goal of the monster. It was released/manifested by a darkened/troubled soul and so its like 'the game is on' from that point on. If it leave the Island, then it becomes defiant and absolute and will end existence.

Yet it was/is also the goal of Jacob's actual brother. And while he is now sentenced to a suffering worse than death, what true benefit would it be to him if HE left if it meant the unmaking of existence?
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:47 AM   #1086
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Jesus, my head is spinning. This is just once aspect of the show, so much more to cover and sort out, I really hope it works.
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:51 AM   #1087
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Jesus, my head is spinning. This is just once aspect of the show, so much more to cover and sort out, I really hope it works.
But then why not give Jacob's brother a name?

This leads me to my next point...Jacob's brother constructed the donkey wheel, but never completed it.

As we have seen, later civilizations seemed to have worshipped the smoke monster. I wonder if he appeared to them as a God, offered them protection, and instructed them to finish the wheel, in hopes of moving the Island and getting off it.
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:53 AM   #1088
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That's a good theory, and one that must be close to being correct.

I just don't know where to go with it, I mean what does it mean if we don't find out? to me it's kinda a bad thing.
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Old 05-12-2010, 12:01 PM   #1089
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That's a good theory, and one that must be close to being correct.

I just don't know where to go with it, I mean what does it mean if we don't find out? to me it's kinda a bad thing.
They have said they would answer some questions, but not within the context of the show.

What they should do is release some sort of book or something that is written like an archeological journal or something about the history of the Island.
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Old 05-12-2010, 12:09 PM   #1090
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Yeah I guess that would be cool, but nothing compared to seeing it on screen. I expect that not everything will be explained, but this being the last season, I'm thinking maybe instead of the alternate reality, we should've gone back to flashbacks but on-island flashbacks. I dunno, depends how cool, good and significant the ending to the way they have gone turns out.
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Old 05-12-2010, 12:15 PM   #1091
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Yeah I guess that would be cool, but nothing compared to seeing it on screen. I expect that not everything will be explained, but this being the last season, I'm thinking maybe instead of the alternate reality, we should've gone back to flashbacks but on-island flashbacks. I dunno, depends how cool, good and significant the ending to the way they have gone turns out.
Agreed...this could all be moot in a week and a half if the ending blows us away. I would have loved a few Island flashbacks or at least one episode devoted to a flashback of the entire Island's history.
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Old 05-12-2010, 12:16 PM   #1092
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Also, young MiB saying his game came from Across the Sea reminded me of that Family Guy sketch of movies where characters on screen say the name of the movie in the movie.
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Old 05-12-2010, 12:26 PM   #1093
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LOL yeah come to think of it that happens a lot in LOST, can already think and remember several:

- Live together, die alone
- three minutes
- Enter 77
- man of science, man of faith
- Every man for himself
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Old 05-12-2010, 12:28 PM   #1094
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LOL yeah come to think of it that happens a lot in LOST, can already think and remember several:

- Live together, die alone
- three minutes
- Enter 77
- man of science, man of faith
- Every man for himself
Man Behind the Curtain, Incident....Yeah it happens alot but for some reason it just stuck out to me last night, haha. Maybe it was the kid's delivery of the line.
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Old 05-12-2010, 12:39 PM   #1095
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I might of mentioned this before, but I'll mention it again.

I don't think there is a chance in hell they would release it or even make it - but I bet within a certain amount of time, somewhere out there a LOST fanatic who knows his editing and who would dedicate the time and effort will one day make a chronological version of LOST and put it up for torrent download. I would be one of those who download it just for a different viewing experience.
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:44 PM   #1096
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So I dont agree that the brother "Released" the smoke monster and they arent the same.

They Are one in the same.

Jacobs fate worse than death is to be stripped of his mortal body and live forever trapped on the island as a smoke monster.

He still cant harm Jacob even as SMokey as the rules dont let brothers hurt each other. He still is the same guy, with the same crazy mother stories, looking to leave the island and go across the sea.
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:45 PM   #1097
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Anyone notice the Mother said the same line about humans as MIB did in his first appearance about them corrupting and fighting?
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:46 PM   #1098
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Anyone notice the Mother said the same line about humans as MIB did in his first appearance about them corrupting and fighting?
Yeah I have mentioned it like twice
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:52 PM   #1099
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LOL fuck me

I scanned this thread quick whilst I ate my lunch!
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:53 PM   #1100
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I think the game changed when he went into the water cave though.

'Mother' said to Jacob that she must let him (his brother, the MIB) leave because it is his choice, so even though he doesn't know how, it appears as though he can leave. And the consequences were that one of her chosen guardians, the one she favored up till then, was not up to the job.

Then when Jacob's brother becomes the smoke monster, it became more about 'evil' escaping the Island (the wine bottle/cork/Island analogy) and spreading into the world/universe.

It's like two separate characters, becomming one, who have the same goal.

The more I think about the evidence, the more it does suggest that MIB, Jacob's brother is still very much part of the smoke monster/Locke - all the stuff he said to Richard about 'the devil' taking his body and his humanity. Sure he was the rotter of the two brothers, but he didn't seem totally corrupted - he felt remorse and upset when he killed his mother. And then the speech he gave Sawyer in 'The Substitute' about knowing what it was like to feel pain, and betrayal etc.
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:59 PM   #1101
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FUCCCCCKKK just passed 10k, oh well my tribute post is on the way. Glad is was a LOST post (I guess).
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:08 PM   #1102
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I was about to bring up the fact that Smokey can't kill Jacob pointing to Smokey and Jacob's brother being one and the same...but what about the fact that we saw his body!?

I guess the monster could "strip" someone of their character, but it seems to me that they would have had to be alive to do this - unlike Locke/Christian.

I think the problem a lot of us are having is that we didn't expect to be theorizing on this stuff with so little time to go. They have a lot to answer in the time remaining - I fear a lot will go unanswered.

For instance, how do they cover the stuff with "Jacob's Cabin"? Who was living there? Who said "Help me!" when Locke was there? Who was sat in the rocking chair?

I figured stuff like that would be covered in "Across The Sea" - I thought as Jacob/His brother/Smokey had been there so long we would see a lot of the history explained. Now we have to hope they cover this in the time remaining.
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:16 PM   #1103
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I was about to bring up the fact that Smokey can't kill Jacob pointing to Smokey and Jacob's brother being one and the same...but what about the fact that we saw his body!?

I guess the monster could "strip" someone of their character, but it seems to me that they would have had to be alive to do this - unlike Locke/Christian.

I think the problem a lot of us are having is that we didn't expect to be theorizing on this stuff with so little time to go. They have a lot to answer in the time remaining - I fear a lot will go unanswered.

For instance, how do they cover the stuff with "Jacob's Cabin"? Who was living there? Who said "Help me!" when Locke was there? Who was sat in the rocking chair?

I figured stuff like that would be covered in "Across The Sea" - I thought as Jacob/His brother/Smokey had been there so long we would see a lot of the history explained. Now we have to hope they cover this in the time remaining.
I dont think there is any way they are getting to Jacob's cabin. Its a shame cause its been visited in seasons 3, 4, and 5.

I think Ilana saying "someone else was using it" is all we are going to get with hit. We will have to theorize what happened with it. I think it was the MiB, Im just not sure how it relates to him moving about the Island.

Part of what I was hoping for last night was to see the Jacob/MiB struggle over the course of thousands of years
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:31 PM   #1104
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I was about to bring up the fact that Smokey can't kill Jacob pointing to Smokey and Jacob's brother being one and the same...but what about the fact that we saw his body!?

I guess the monster could "strip" someone of their character, but it seems to me that they would have had to be alive to do this - unlike Locke/Christian.

I think the problem a lot of us are having is that we didn't expect to be theorizing on this stuff with so little time to go. They have a lot to answer in the time remaining - I fear a lot will go unanswered.

For instance, how do they cover the stuff with "Jacob's Cabin"? Who was living there? Who said "Help me!" when Locke was there? Who was sat in the rocking chair?

I figured stuff like that would be covered in "Across The Sea" - I thought as Jacob/His brother/Smokey had been there so long we would see a lot of the history explained. Now we have to hope they cover this in the time remaining.
Yeah totally agree. Its has just got to that point now, and it has only really become apparent after that episode.

Yeah see things like this make me lean more to the idea that they really didn't think about what they were doing at the time and how it would impact later on what they eventually decided would be the story.

Here is my breakdown of trying to answer that...

Ben never actually met Jacob, and as we know, his base/home was the chamber underneath the statue. However, Ilana knew to go to the cabin to look for Jacob. But upon finding it saw that the circle of ash had been broken, and that someone else had been using it....so through that we could assume that someone, at some point trapped the smoke monster inside the cabin....but then again, the smoke monster has been rampant throughout the Island since episode friggin 1!! - so none of that really makes sense at all

Ben was surprised when things in the cabin started going crazy - and we did hear the voice - so something was present there even if it was Ben trying to trick Locke. The guy in the chair was played by one of the crew members on the LOST production team, can't remember where I read that, but it was an interview and they showed the guy on set - either way, it was a totally different guy to that of the guy who plays Jacob and Christian. It just doesn't make sense. Even in the context of LOST, its too much of a web of inconsistencies to be.

But yeah, seriously, there is too much to explain, and the stuff they have not explained it very significant to the story.

I dunno, it could all work I guess.
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Old 05-12-2010, 03:17 PM   #1105
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Well yeah, you've stated what we know and what's assumed to explain it...it'd be nice to know for sure what the deal was/is.

I guess these could be seen as big McGuffins in the bigger picture. The hatch was the most important thing to us in S1, finding out who The Others were was the biggest mystery of S2, etc. but those things seem so inconsiquential to the story now.
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Old 05-12-2010, 03:28 PM   #1106
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SMokey has said that jacob took his body and made him the way he is...so that explaisn why he has a dead body, he is now a spiritual being.

The ash maybe didnt keep things in the cabin but rather out....then somehow the ashes were broken, and smokey moved into the cabin to pretend to be jacob to Ben and falsely lead the others.
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Old 05-12-2010, 04:37 PM   #1107
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Just thought, was the knife that MiB had/used to kill his mother the same knife that Dogan gave to Sayid to kill Smocke?
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Old 05-12-2010, 04:43 PM   #1108
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It was! Its a certain kind of Roman soldier weapon they all had. I actually have the exact replica in my room I got in Greece years ago lol.
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Old 05-12-2010, 04:45 PM   #1109
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The ash maybe didnt keep things in the cabin but rather out....then somehow the ashes were broken, and smokey moved into the cabin to pretend to be jacob to Ben and falsely lead the others.
We actually have not had any evidence where we saw or it was suggested that The Others were ever deceived by the MIB. Jacob only spoke to Richard, probably in his statue chamber.

That's the thing, only Locke and a small other handful of people were under the impression it was Jacob in the cabin. And those people were not any of The Others, just the losties.
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Old 05-12-2010, 04:49 PM   #1110
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We actually have not had any evidence where we saw or it was suggested that The Others were ever deceived by the MIB. Jacob only spoke to Richard, probably in his statue chamber.

That's the thing, only Locke and a small other handful of people were under the impression it was Jacob in the cabin. And those people were not any of The Others, just the losties.
We know Richard knew where Jacob was. Ben clearly didnt but pretended he did, and the Others I dont think had any idea where Jacob lived.

So really you have Locke who thought Jacob lived there, Hurley who knew someone was there but not really who, and Ilana's Group who went there for Jacob but quickly figured out it wasnt him.

On top of all of it, you have Horace who built the cabin.

If you watch the sneak peak for next week...semi spoiler warning I suppose....

Hurley gives the bag of ashes to young Jacob in the jungle, so maybe we will find out a little more about the ash
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Old 05-12-2010, 04:55 PM   #1111
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Been doin gsome reading, there is a school of thoughtthat Mother = Monster.

I have to admit, when she first appeared to find Claudia by the stream the scene was all to similar to when the smoke appeared behind Eko as he was drinking from a stream. Then there was the way that she told Claudia that she would find any other people that had arrived at the island. And of course the way that the village was destroyed, people killed and - most oddly - the well filled in.

When she warns Jacob that going into the Glowing Cave of Death (and life, and rebirth) is a fate "worse than death" that she is speaking from experience?

To counterpoint this, we see the light in the cave go out when MiB is sent down there by Jacob, presumably this would have happened if Mother had gone down there. Does the light come back? We've seen it when Locke/Ben turned the Donkey Wheel so perhaps!?
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Old 05-12-2010, 05:00 PM   #1112
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We know Richard knew where Jacob was. Ben clearly didnt but pretended he did, and the Others I dont think had any idea where Jacob lived.

So really you have Locke who thought Jacob lived there, Hurley who knew someone was there but not really who, and Ilana's Group who went there for Jacob but quickly figured out it wasnt him.

On top of all of it, you have Horace who built the cabin.

If you watch the sneak peak for next week...semi spoiler warning I suppose....

Hurley gives the bag of ashes to young Jacob in the jungle, so maybe we will find out a little more about the ash
Horace did built the cabin, but it was most likely the MIB who posed as him in the dream/vision Locke had where he was cutting the tree down. Horace/MIB needed Locke to find the cabin so he could then pose as Christian and tell him to move the island. And although Ben did it, it was Locke who he meant, which he told him in the well in season 5.

Maybe it was and is Jacob's plan to have the good guys believe it was his cabin so it lead to to and through the course of events that occurred. I have always kinda believed Jacob's plan is to make it seem as though the MIB is one step ahead (it was like he let Ben kill him in a way) when really he has an ace or two up his sleeve, like Desmond and the alternate universe, which I doubt MIB is aware of or what it could have happen.

Also my reply to spoiler...

Young Jacob is not Jacob though, pretty sure its the Island or some kind of higher being/force. Jacob is dead.
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Old 05-12-2010, 05:19 PM   #1113
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Ben brought Locke to the cabin stating thats where Jacob lived....so ben might have actually thought of Jacob as being there. Thats why when Locke heard "him" ben was upset at the idea of losign power, and shot Locke
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Old 05-12-2010, 05:21 PM   #1114
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holy shit, I leave for a couple hours and there's like 20 new posts
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Old 05-12-2010, 05:24 PM   #1115
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I love this show. Thought the history of Jacob and not Jacob was well done. I like that Lost has its own mythology now, and isn't something taken literally from some other source. Really can't believe their is only two episodes left.
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Old 05-12-2010, 05:25 PM   #1116
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Ben brought Locke to the cabin stating thats where Jacob lived....so ben might have actually thought of Jacob as being there. Thats why when Locke heard "him" ben was upset at the idea of losign power, and shot Locke
Yeah, we know that Ben never got an audience with Jacob and judging by this reaction when whoever it is in the cabin goes apeshit, he's never spoken to anyone there.
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Old 05-12-2010, 05:30 PM   #1117
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here's my problem with the guys saying Smoke Monster and MIB are is basicaly the same thing. I mean, yea, there is a lot of evidence that points to that, but....

How long has this Smoke Monster existed on the island? It seems like it was there as long as the island's been there. And then we have to ask how long the island has been there? Becuase the Smoke Monster didn't just appear with MIB. It was there well before MIB was even born.

At least that's my take on it. They really need to show DAY 1 this island existed. lol
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Old 05-12-2010, 05:41 PM   #1118
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Why do you assume smokey existed at any point prior to MIB going into the light? there is nothing to support that.
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Old 05-12-2010, 05:51 PM   #1119
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It's just guesswork again. It could be that the Monster wa being held by the light and was released when MiB went into the cave. It could be that the Monster is somehow a manifestation of what was in MiB's heart. Etc, etc, etc.

This is why it's frustrating. We shouldn't be speculating to this degree at this point.
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Old 05-12-2010, 05:53 PM   #1120
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Most people here hated last nights episode, right? (I can't be bothered to read through another lost thread today)
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