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Old 12-21-2006, 06:32 PM   #81
Funky Fly
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Are you kiddingAddy? JBL would probably hog tie her and threaten rape.
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Old 12-21-2006, 06:39 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by addy2hotty
Weapon X said 'fake' and then 'scripted', it's clear that he meant scripted. Is it not beyond the realms of possibility that an ignorant newsreader did the same?

How would have JBL handled that, probably chuckled at her and said something constructive to make her understand. Edge isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, and unfortunately missed a good oppotunity.
That's the thing. Arguing that it's not "fake" becomes semantics. It's fake, even though people really do get hurt. We can put a softer face on it as wrestling fans, but...It really comes down to being fake. It's not even ignorance to call it fake, it's ignorance to think that changing the wording makes it any less staged, scripted, or fake. I wonder why people are so eager to look past the elephant in the room.

There are smarter ways to handle a statement like that, but then maybe this is why wrestling looks so stupid to the uninitiated. Because our ambassadors to the outside world are rarely well-spoken or insightful. On the other hand, the transcripts don't sound hostile on either side. Edge doesn't read as defensive, Anderson doesn't read as inflamatory.

On a side note, I wonder how RVD would have reacted (Had he gone to Iraq, or had he been interviewed in another scenario). JBL's intelligent, but RVD's a truly cool customer in almost any way imaginable.

Not that it matters. You go to war with the wrestlers you have, not the wrestlers you wish you had.
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Old 12-21-2006, 06:43 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeritron5000
Nobody outside of the fanbase is going AW Snap. Nobody's doing anything. Thats half of the reason why you're wrong when you say Edge made himself look stupid. He didn't look stupid in the situation, he reacted well...and nobody think he looked stupid, not even anyone else on here.
Right. You just tell yourself that.

It's bullshit, and you only need to look at other reactions to see I'm not the only dissenting opinion, but why let reality intrude on this whole affair?

And I suppose only the 15 internet smarks here watch Showbiz Tonight, and nobody else will see it or form an opinion.
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Old 12-21-2006, 06:45 PM   #84
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One thing I'll tell you. If he would have just sat there and took it, he'd get a lot of heat from the guys in the back.
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Old 12-21-2006, 06:48 PM   #85
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He did the right thing.
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Old 12-21-2006, 07:08 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
That's the thing. Arguing that it's not "fake" becomes semantics. It's fake, even though people really do get hurt. We can put a softer face on it as wrestling fans, but...It really comes down to being fake. It's not even ignorance to call it fake, it's ignorance to think that changing the wording makes it any less staged, scripted, or fake. I wonder why people are so eager to look past the elephant in the room.

There are smarter ways to handle a statement like that, but then maybe this is why wrestling looks so stupid to the uninitiated. Because our ambassadors to the outside world are rarely well-spoken or insightful. On the other hand, the transcripts don't sound hostile on either side. Edge doesn't read as defensive, Anderson doesn't read as inflamatory.

On a side note, I wonder how RVD would have reacted (Had he gone to Iraq, or had he been interviewed in another scenario). JBL's intelligent, but RVD's a truly cool customer in almost any way imaginable.

Not that it matters. You go to war with the wrestlers you have, not the wrestlers you wish you had.
The point is, that there is a lot of people who seem to take these things so seriously, certain people on this thread & Edge included, which is systematic of the whole industry at the moment. The whole notion of 'fakeness' is almost like bad press to the WWE. Or an insult to some fans.

They probably coach them to say certain things if anyone does this in the media. 'Pull out something about an injury' - I mean, it's perfect, most of the roster have had them.
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Old 12-21-2006, 07:09 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeritron5000
He did it for THE ROCK.
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Old 12-21-2006, 07:26 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by addy2hotty
The point is, that there is a lot of people who seem to take these things so seriously, certain people on this thread & Edge included, which is systematic of the whole industry at the moment. The whole notion of 'fakeness' is almost like bad press to the WWE. Or an insult to some fans.

They probably coach them to say certain things if anyone does this in the media. 'Pull out something about an injury' - I mean, it's perfect, most of the roster have had them.
I agree that this is like a pathological issue.
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Old 12-21-2006, 07:30 PM   #89
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And to people complaining about the word fake. Ask yourselves why they call it fake: Because it's a "scripted," "staged," "sport."

So...Ummm...You're arguing it's not faked, it's faked.

Nobody's pretending Eddie's still alive and the Blue Blazer was all a work. Nobody's saying people don't get hurt. Nobody's saying Michael Moore is Jabba the Hutt...Well, actually...
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Old 12-21-2006, 07:45 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Right. You just tell yourself that.

It's bullshit, and you only need to look at other reactions to see I'm not the only dissenting opinion, but why let reality intrude on this whole affair?

And I suppose only the 15 internet smarks here watch Showbiz Tonight, and nobody else will see it or form an opinion.
LOL, sometimes you crack me up. (People have opinions that vary from yours. Many people watching the show could easily side with people like Jerry here.)
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Old 12-21-2006, 08:05 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by addy2hotty
The point is, that there is a lot of people who seem to take these things so seriously, certain people on this thread & Edge included, which is systematic of the whole industry at the moment. The whole notion of 'fakeness' is almost like bad press to the WWE. Or an insult to some fans.

They probably coach them to say certain things if anyone does this in the media. 'Pull out something about an injury' - I mean, it's perfect, most of the roster have had them.
WWE has been open about the 'entertainment' nature of the industry and set outcomes. They maintain a kayfabe world but apart from that they are very open about what they are presenting as a form of entertainment.
They certainly do not coach their wrestlers, or make it a point to portray it as real to the media.
What Edge said is a case of self defense and education regarding the validity of athleticism and danger in the line of work and the industry, which in the minds of some ignorant outsiders is non-existant. He did it on principle, personal and professionally and was justified in doing so. He didn't look like an idiot to overall, smark mark or outsider POVs included.

If he looked like such an idiot, or it was an embarassment. Why can't I even find it on youtube, where you can find ANYTHING? Nobody was put off by Adam Copelands comments.
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Old 12-21-2006, 08:53 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeritron5000
They certainly do not coach their wrestlers, or make it a point to portray it as real to the media.
Actually, they do a lot of times tell people to say certain things and/or stay in kayfabe which in a sense is trying to pass it off as "real."

But if WWE was talking in Edge's ear during this, he would've threatened to spear the woman for making that comment. And THAT would've made him look like a damned fool.
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Old 12-22-2006, 12:58 PM   #93
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Okay, guys, this entire argument is pointless and ridiculous about Edge's comments. You know why? Wrestling is not fake.
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Old 12-22-2006, 01:51 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor
LOL, sometimes you crack me up. (People have opinions that vary from yours. Many people watching the show could easily side with people like Jerry here.)
You do know that this comment isn't saying that everyone who watches ST is going to side with me, right?

It's refuting his argument that nobody will agree with me. First off, he immediately discounted everyone who actually watches the show (Unless, as my statement asserts, only the smarks commenting on this board are the ones watching...), which is especially silly, since the mainstream viewers are more likely to find the statement that it's fake true, then he goes on to discount other people who has disagreed with him.

This isn't about mine being the only opinion, or any other little silly strawman you can put up. Sorry.
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Old 12-22-2006, 01:52 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerranRich
Okay, guys, this entire argument is pointless and ridiculous about Edge's comments. You know why? Wrestling is not fake.
IT'S STILL A VIABLE JOKE TO ME, DAMMIT!
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Old 12-22-2006, 03:05 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeritron5000
WWE has been open about the 'entertainment' nature of the industry and set outcomes. They maintain a kayfabe world but apart from that they are very open about what they are presenting as a form of entertainment.
They certainly do not coach their wrestlers, or make it a point to portray it as real to the media.
What Edge said is a case of self defense and education regarding the validity of athleticism and danger in the line of work and the industry, which in the minds of some ignorant outsiders is non-existant. He did it on principle, personal and professionally and was justified in doing so. He didn't look like an idiot to overall, smark mark or outsider POVs included.

If he looked like such an idiot, or it was an embarassment. Why can't I even find it on youtube, where you can find ANYTHING? Nobody was put off by Adam Copelands comments.
I never said he was an idiot or an embarrassment. I'm really of no opinion of how he looked etc etc.

You say it's a case of education, yet they deny it's fake. Why is that? Why not just say 'scripted' and be done with it, I've seen it done at other times. I remember seeing Kurt Angle before he got huge on a tour promoting in the UK. Someone on our sad version of MTV asked him, 'Kurt, now wrestling is fake right?'. Angle, totally unshaken and with a smirk on his face, replied, 'I wouldnt say fake, I think pre-determined is the right word.' The guy had no answer.

I mean, who cares what he said, no-one is going to take a man who's name appears on the screen as 'Edge' as opposed to 'Adam Copeland'. I bet half the people watching thought, 'I bet he stole that from the guy in U2'.
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Old 12-23-2006, 02:34 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeritron5000
Doesn't mean he still shouldn't say anything. I know its not the same thing, but if an old ignorant biggot makes a racist comment do you not say anything? Because no remarks gonna change that either. He took a stand and said something on principle and because he took offense, rightfully so. I also think he reacted in a good manner. What he said was subtle, witty but effective. I'm sure she picked up on it, she probably even felt embarassed.
The alternative doesn't have to be say nothing. The issue was the stuff in Iraq so a novel thing to say would've been something about, guess what, Iraq.
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Old 12-23-2006, 02:37 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weapon X
It's not about changing that particular chick's mind. It's about defending yourself against an untruth. Just because wrestling is scripted doesn't mean that it's fake. They still have to bust their asses in the ring every week of the year, and their injuries aren't fake. Just because they aren't inflicted purposefully doesn't mean a man's neck is any less broken.
Yep, they do bust their asses and do a lot of hard work like remembering all of those important spots and cues, whispering moves into their opponent's ears, trying to land the right way to avoid injury, keeping that condom of blood from falling out, protecting their opponent on a move, pretending to be mad at someone who's actually a good friend, and making sure the fans believe all the blood on their face came from that chair shot.
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Old 12-23-2006, 02:45 AM   #99
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Condom of blood?
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Old 12-23-2006, 02:46 AM   #100
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Old 12-23-2006, 02:48 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippord
Condom of blood?
For those nagging 'internal injuries'.
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Old 12-23-2006, 03:09 AM   #102
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Old 12-23-2006, 08:34 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-A-G
The alternative doesn't have to be say nothing. The issue was the stuff in Iraq so a novel thing to say would've been something about, guess what, Iraq.
I was more lauging at his assertion that Edge took offense, which really does make his answer sound bitter.

But seriously, other wrestlers have handled it better in the past.
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Old 12-23-2006, 11:54 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-A-G
The alternative doesn't have to be say nothing. The issue was the stuff in Iraq so a novel thing to say would've been something about, guess what, Iraq.
Which is what he did.
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Old 12-23-2006, 11:56 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
I don't recall this. Can you back it up?
Can't be fucked finding the details, but Triple H made comments like "John Cena is getting booed because he doesn't have a good enough heel to go up against", whilst Cena was feuding with Angle.
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Old 12-24-2006, 12:00 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
LOL. Once again. Yeah, you come off as overly defensive about wrestling. I wonder why. So much so that there's this phantom world of people who think nobody ever gets hurt in wrestling.

Next thing you'll tell me is that people still think wrestling is real...
A lot of people don't think anyone gets hurt in wrestling. I've talked to people who refuse to believe Kurt Angle broke his neck. They honestly believe everything is planned out, and there is absolutely no risk in what happens.

See the thread where people discuss when they figured out wrestling was fake for more details. It isn't a "phantom world". People on these boards have confessed to thinking it "faker" than it actually was.

I can't make sense of your other paragraph and what you meant, just some long winded self-fellating bullshit probably, so I won't bother.
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Old 12-24-2006, 12:13 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
That's the thing. Arguing that it's not "fake" becomes semantics. It's fake, even though people really do get hurt. We can put a softer face on it as wrestling fans, but...It really comes down to being fake. It's not even ignorance to call it fake, it's ignorance to think that changing the wording makes it any less staged, scripted, or fake. I wonder why people are so eager to look past the elephant in the room.

There are smarter ways to handle a statement like that, but then maybe this is why wrestling looks so stupid to the uninitiated. Because our ambassadors to the outside world are rarely well-spoken or insightful. On the other hand, the transcripts don't sound hostile on either side. Edge doesn't read as defensive, Anderson doesn't read as inflamatory.

On a side note, I wonder how RVD would have reacted (Had he gone to Iraq, or had he been interviewed in another scenario). JBL's intelligent, but RVD's a truly cool customer in almost any way imaginable.

Not that it matters. You go to war with the wrestlers you have, not the wrestlers you wish you had.
Don't know if you get out, and what-not, but the word "fake" these days carries negative implications. A movie would not be described as "fake". A stuntman's activies would not be described as "fake" and even special effects on a TV show would not be described as "fake".

Perhaps professional wrestling is to blame for kayfabe, and what-not, but people have this hostility towards the industry, as if it is constantly trying to deceive us. Is it? Perhaps, but I think what is asks for is more suspension of disbelief, similar to how a movie would.

That's why I've always had a soft spot for the concepts behind WSX and Chikara. Haven't seen WSX, but the MTV shtick had me believe that it could have maybe shed the fourth wall that makes people feel conned by watching iit. A wrestling promotion that holds each show more like a TV episode, complete with credits, casting and what-not could work, in my opinion. But that's another story for another day.

My point is this:

There is hostility towards professional wrestling. People are ignorant when it comes to it. Perhaps it is the industry's fault for putting up so many barricades, but Edge was just responding to a woman who obviously didn't understand the business, and was obviously condescending it.

I ask you this: would you use the word "fake" to a professional wrestler? Would you ask him how his "fake" lifestyle is? She obviously didn't have a clue what she was on about, and as a journalist she should really be aware of what she is saying at all times.

And the woman did come off as offencive. I took it that way, so did so many other people, and so did Edge, or else he wouldn't have made the statement.
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Old 12-24-2006, 02:13 AM   #108
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Lol Edge is stealing Angles gimmick

I WRESTLED WITH A BROKEN FREAKING NECK IN THIS SPORT
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Old 12-24-2006, 03:04 AM   #109
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Seriously how did this spark a debate
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Old 12-24-2006, 09:18 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
I don't recall this. Can you back it up?

Oh, gee, raise your hand if you didn't see that coming.
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Old 12-24-2006, 09:24 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippord
Seriously how did this spark a debate
It didn't spark a debate. It merely sparked the appearance of a universal truth; that Edge was right. That gave Kane Knight the chance to argue universal truth again, and thus became the frustration of trying to talk to him. On the upside, he can no longer say that only Alienoid, Terran, Destor and I have opposed his troublesome and incorrect viewpoints; on the downside, he's pissed everyone off again.










I mean, Kennedyyyyyyy!
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Old 12-24-2006, 09:34 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06
Can't be fucked finding the details, but Triple H made comments like "John Cena is getting booed because he doesn't have a good enough heel to go up against", whilst Cena was feuding with Angle.
No, I meant can you back up you claims of my statements?

What I don't remember is the comments you claim I've made.

Then again, considering you're either lying or just plain misrepresenting my statements on Poochy...
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Old 12-24-2006, 09:39 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afterlife
Oh, gee, raise your hand if you didn't see that coming.
LOL

Yeah, Alienoid made a series of unfounded claims which he refuses to back up. I didn't deny this one, I said I don't remember it. God, how predictable!

...Afterlife making another bullshit comment, that is.
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Old 12-24-2006, 09:43 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06
A lot of people don't think anyone gets hurt in wrestling.
Yup. In your fantasy world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06
Don't know if you get out, and what-not, but the word "fake" these days carries negative implications.
You got me. I had no idea that "fake" could have negative implications.

GEe, no wonder Edge got so defensive and pitched a hissyfit (Hey, it's a fair assumption, all things considered. I mean, it's a bad, dirty, foul word!)
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Old 12-24-2006, 09:57 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
LOL

Yeah, Alienoid made a series of unfounded claims which he refuses to back up. I didn't deny this one, I said I don't remember it. God, how predictable!

...Afterlife making another bullshit comment, that is.
Oh, right, because your coy little remark was in to way a denial. Every time someone says "Kane Knight said", they're mysteriously wrong. It's like the History of You was thrown up by the Monster King of the Bermuda Triangle, and is thusly constructed of worm holes and alternate realities.

This one time, it rained in April. But I don't need the almanac to prove it.
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Old 12-24-2006, 10:01 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Yup. In your fantasy world.



You got me. I had no idea that "fake" could have negative implications.

GEe, no wonder Edge got so defensive and pitched a hissyfit (Hey, it's a fair assumption, all things considered. I mean, it's a bad, dirty, foul word!)

Like, this one time, I remember a thread where you complained about someone referring to this reporter as a "snotty bitch", even tho she probably wasn't. And here you are, claiming that Edge threw a "hissyfit", even tho he probably wasn't. It's almost like hypocracy, except I'm sure in Kane Land, it's ignorant of the first guy, but you're just using hyperbole.
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Old 12-24-2006, 10:08 AM   #117
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Remember in that same thread, I actually explicitly said that neither sounded like they were confrontational? Oh, right. Selective memory. It's not possible that there was a context you either don't want to understand, or deliberately refuse to understand.
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Old 12-24-2006, 10:08 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afterlife
Oh, right, because your coy little remark was in to way a denial. Every time someone says "Kane Knight said", they're mysteriously wrong. It's like the History of You was thrown up by the Monster King of the Bermuda Triangle, and is thusly constructed of worm holes and alternate realities.

This one time, it rained in April. But I don't need the almanac to prove it.
Yeah, basically, you're copping out. Surprise?

Not really.
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Old 12-24-2006, 10:14 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Remember in that same thread, I actually explicitly said that neither sounded like they were confrontational? Oh, right. Selective memory. It's not possible that there was a context you either don't want to understand, or deliberately refuse to understand.

So, the fact that you contradicted yourself not once, but twice, is not only funny to you, but is somehow degrading to me? I don't follow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Yeah, basically, you're copping out. Surprise?

Not really.

Actually, I was pointing out your cop out, homie.
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Old 12-24-2006, 04:19 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
No, I meant can you back up you claims of my statements?

What I don't remember is the comments you claim I've made.

Then again, considering you're either lying or just plain misrepresenting my statements on Poochy...
Dude, that's what you said. I'm sure someone else remembers it here, I'm just not going to go through a meaningless search to appease your ego. I don't want you to take offence to this, but you're not worth my time.
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