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Old 07-14-2007, 08:09 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesSteele
Plug his book?
Or getting back into the WWE
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Old 07-14-2007, 08:10 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legend
Or getting back into the WWE


He left WWE because he wanted to. WWE has asked him to come back, and he didn't because he didn't want to. WWE needs Jericho more than Jericho needs WWE.
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Old 07-14-2007, 08:12 PM   #83
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Yes but if Jericho says even half the stuff that Mero or Konnan or saying he might burn a bridge with them.
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Old 07-14-2007, 08:16 PM   #84
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Btw has anyone been able to find a clip of this segment with Finlay and everyone?

I've been looking but I can't find it.
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Old 07-14-2007, 08:17 PM   #85
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I agree with the WWE guys, when you become a pro wrestler specifically for the WWE you know what your in for. You will get injured, you won't have much time to work out, you won't get to see your family, you will have to bust your ass. They make more than enough money to buy their own medical insurance, plus if they get injured in the ring then WWE will pay for it as Kennedy said. You can't blame WWE for what a single person or group of people do behind closed doors. Now you can have a drug testing policy of course, but just like any other job there are always ways to get around that.
If Chris Benoit was dopped up that is not WWE's faul, that is his fault and his doctors fault, being the one who prescribes them.

Chris Benoit should have known better, after all he recently went through the death of his best friend Eddie Guerrero, who felt the effect of drugs, and probably steroids. What more can the WWE do? Pro wrestlers are not children, they are grown men and women who have a sense of right and wrong for the most part. It is not WWE's responsibility to baby them and watch them like a crazy dictator. The media wants to bring McMahon down for some reason, a culmination of 30 plus years of controversy.

Benoit had been with his doctor for years, since he was in WCW. He probably got other guys to go to him as well so they could get their roids, uppers and downers easily. After all over 60 pro wrestlers used him as their doctor, now with him out of the way it could mean a turning point as to how the wrestlers handle their own personal and health problems.
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Old 07-14-2007, 08:24 PM   #86
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I agree with you on everything except the 1st paragraph. Wrestlers need a union to fight for them to get decent benefits.
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Old 07-14-2007, 08:34 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan X
Pro wrestlers are not children, they are grown men and women
This is excatly it right here.

Wrestlers are grown men and what do grown men usually have? They have families, and good amount of them will do what they can to support them. Usually that means making money, and how do most most wrestlers make money in wrestling? By taking steriods so they can look good.

A lot of these wrestlers who have been dying were doing what they did to support familes. They were trying to make as much as they could for them or just themeselves. Anyone in any business would what it takes to make the most money in any profession, and in wrestling that's taking steriod so you can be as big as possible.

The wrestler's aren't going to change that way of thinking, because that way of thinking is human nature. The only way it's going change is if the people at top do something. If that's pushing guys soley based on talent, serious drug testing, or whatever. They should do it

It's the people at top of the wrestling industry who have to change first in order for the wrestlers to change.
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Old 07-14-2007, 10:19 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legend
Btw has anyone been able to find a clip of this segment with Finlay and everyone?

I've been looking but I can't find it.
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Old 07-14-2007, 10:43 PM   #89
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Pt. 2
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Old 07-14-2007, 10:50 PM   #90
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Thank you, NeanderCarl
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Old 07-14-2007, 10:53 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by legend
Thank you, NeanderCarl
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Old 07-14-2007, 11:25 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesSteele
I can't take most of them seriously because they are talking out of their asses. All I know is that Chris Benoit probably did drugs and somehow he killed his wife,son, and himself in 3 days of horror. Bret and Jericho are the only ones who haven't come off with an agenda in this whole thing.
Bret needs to get over it.
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Old 07-14-2007, 11:26 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
Nobody has put 100% on WWE at any point. The company, it's idiot staff and it's clueless mark fans think anyone who talks slightly negative in their direction is the spawn of Satan though.
You mean 99% of TPWWers.
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Old 07-14-2007, 11:41 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Bret needs to get over it.
LOLz
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Old 07-14-2007, 11:48 PM   #95
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Pt 3, short and nothing of note...
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Old 07-14-2007, 11:58 PM   #96
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You and Rob need to pull y'alls heads out of y'alls self-righteous asses and actually read some of the arguments besides going "ITS WWE'S RESPONSIBILITY! STUPID WWE MARK!"

WWE has a drug testing policy with punishments for failures. Yes, those punishments could be harsher but to basically imply that WWE is doing next to nothing is bullshit and you know it. Here is proof so you won't have to waste your time ranting about how I am another noob with no basis for my claims:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
Not a question. Vince McMahon takes no responsibility for anyone who died who wasn't working for him at the time. And even then he still doesn't take any responsibility no matter how minor. If you don't discourage drug use even though it's illegal and some wrestler worked for you for 10 years dies a week after you release him, how does the company not take any responsibility.

And I can't believe people are still shilling this wellness program. It's a fucking shame. Benoit's toxicology reports are gonna come back and he is gonna be full of drugs and enlarged muscles like the heart for example. And they said more than once that he PASSED a drug test this year.
What more discouragement can WWE do than say "If we catch you doing this shit, you will be punished." Also Rob, is it possible he was clean when he took the test and then has taken something since then?! HOLY SHIT! IMPOSSIBLE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
And publically traded companies who choose to let suicides happen must deal with the consequences. In this case , bad publicity and a hit to stock prices.
Are you actually so jaded to actually believe WWE has done NOTHING to prevent these situations from happening. The Wellness Policy has shown results. What the fuck more do you want? Just because HHH hasn't ever failed a test and been fired??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Your Hero
Does TNA or any other wrestling promotion have a drug policy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
None. Not even WWE.

And I'm curious to hear about the rampant steroid abuse that wrestling promoters encouraged at the turn of the century. I mean, if you're gonna play DA, work at it.
Obviously, WWE doesn't have a drug policy! Of course I do want to hear where the "encouraged steroid abuse" from 2000 came from. Did it come from your ego trying to win an argument or did you just pull it out of your ass like you usually do.
Last edited by James Steele; 07-15-2007 at 12:01 AM.
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:14 AM   #97
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WWE indirectly encourages steroid use by rewarding the most muscular guys with pushes, whether warranted or not. Look at the clueless Chris Masters' continued exposure on WWE TV.

However, even the most hardened McMahon-bashers have always denied that WWE ever suggested or pushed steroids onto them.

That's right... even the most anti-McMahon wrestlers out there all confess that WWE never actively encouraged steroid use, even in the 80s.
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:16 AM   #98
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Look at Chris Masters when it comes to seriouness of the WWE and it's wellness policy.

Before the testing Chris Masters was being pused very hard. A few months after the Test was implenmented he failed was taken off the road and TV for a number of days and probably even months ( I can't remember the exact time frame).

He returns to TV noticeably smaller, and upon his return he starts to lose a lot of his matches. Which he really didn't lose that much of before, and his push was almost gone. He was even made fun off regualary on National TV because of how much smaller he was. HHH on TV said something to the affect of "What are you going to talk about? How to lose 50 pounds in a month."

Then a little while after that Chris Masters started getting bigger again, and guess what he started winning matches and was starting to get pushed again.

The WWE made a great stride when it implemented the Wellness policy and they have done stuff to try improve.

And creating another policy that doesn't have to be taken off the corporate website would be a great way to improve.
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:18 AM   #99
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Of course you have to mention Masters as I am typing out my post.

Bastard :foc:
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:20 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeanderCarl
WWE indirectly encourages steroid use by rewarding the most muscular guys with pushes, whether warranted or not. Look at the clueless Chris Masters' continued exposure on WWE TV.
Chris Masters got caught by the drug test and payed the price. He is on TV, but he is a glorified jobber ever since he failed that test. Also, he lost an insane amount of body mass and hasn't gotten back to Mini-Steiner physique since (even though he has gained back body mass).
Last edited by James Steele; 07-15-2007 at 12:25 AM.
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:26 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesSteele
Chris Masters got caught by the drug test and payed the price. He is on TV, but he is a glorified jobber ever since he failed that test. Also, he lost an insane amount of body mass and hasn't gotten back to Mini-Steiner physique since (even though he has gained back body mass).
Yes, and as legend pointed out, as soon as he inexplicably started beefing up again, WWE's interest in pushing him returned.

He had a bad run there, losing cleanly to Super Crazy over and over, but he has since returned to the same position he was in before failing the test. Where's the lesson there?
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:27 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legend
Then a little while after that Chris Masters started getting bigger again, and guess what he started winning matches and was starting to get pushed again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeanderCuarl
Yes, and as legend pointed out, as soon as he inexplicably started beefing up again, WWE's interest in pushing him returned.
Beating "local jobbers" and jobbing to Santino Marella is a push?
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:29 AM   #103
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I'm not knocking the WWE... I agree with those who say "individual choice"... it sure is lazy journalism to point the finger at WWE, when these grown men are dying as a result of the "rock n roll lifestyle" they chose to live on the road in the 80s and early 90s.
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:31 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeanderCarl
He had a bad run there, losing cleanly to Super Crazy over and over, but he has since returned to the same position he was in before failing the test. Where's the lesson there?
He isn't headling PPVs for the World heavyweight championship. Masters was getting a decent sub-main event push before he failed the test. He is nowhere near that level.
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:31 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesSteele
Beating "local jobbers" and jobbing to Santino Marella is a push?
A solid mid-card position, getting his hand raised on at least a semi-regular basis on TV, a continued putting over of his finishing hold (despite the "unbreakable" tag being long gone...)

Yeah, I'd say things could be a lot worse for Chris Masters.
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:35 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by NeanderCarl
Yeah, I'd say things could be a lot worse for Chris Masters.
You could say that for anybody in WWE who gets on TV. The guys is a somewhat established name and has potential to be a money-maker. Of course, he can't get a second chance from WWE because that supports drug use! Vince says, "SHOOT UP!"
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:36 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by JamesSteele
He isn't headling PPVs for the World heavyweight championship. Masters was getting a decent sub-main event push before he failed the test. He is nowhere near that level.
He was never a serious contender. He was on the "midcarder-gets-a-two-week-push-to-seem-like-a-semi-serious-threat-to-the-champion-before-losing-to-him-on-TV" rotating cycle. Everybody mid-card gets a go on that carousel. Hell, Bob Holly has his own seat.

Masters would be where he is now, failed drug test or not. He was never going to make it in the main event, not at this stage of his career anyway.
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:36 AM   #108
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And, what, anybody who isn't headlining PPVs for World titles is a jobber?
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:39 AM   #109
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All right fine let's say I argee for a second that he never got back to the level he was at (which I don't believe for a second)

He's still just as big as he was then. His physique is still great. He is obviously still on steriods.

Isn't the point of the Wellness policy to keep people off Steriods?
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:42 AM   #110
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You pretty much said he is right back to where he was. He is now a lower midcard guy at best. Also, working with HBK,Angle, and Cena for months is just the standard midcard act.
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:43 AM   #111
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I don't believe WWE takes its drug policy nonchalently. I do think that people are finding ways around it, though. And the reason they are choosing to go that route is because the rewards outweigh the risks.

I don't blame the WWE, per se, I blame the wrestlers. But WWE is guilty of rewarding those with unrealistic physiques. How many hugely-muscled guys have come into the WWE and not been met with at least an attempted push? On the flipside, you can probably count on your fingers the number of guys with unremarkable bodies that WWE has put their promotional weight behind.
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:43 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legend
All right fine let's say I argee for a second that he never got back to the level he was at (which I don't believe for a second)

He's still just as big as he was then. His physique is still great. He is obviously still on steriods.

Isn't the point of the Wellness policy to keep people off Steriods?
You can't make anybody do anything they don't want to do. Chris Masters will eventually trip up and fail a test if he is still on roids. He will have fucked up his career if he is that dumb, but he has the choice to be a dumbass.
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:44 AM   #113
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Quote:
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You pretty much said he is right back to where he was. He is now a lower midcard guy at best. Also, working with HBK,Angle, and Cena for months is just the standard midcard act.
Working with them, yes, when he is never treated - by the bookers, or the fans - as a credible threat. He was midcard cannon fodder.
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:47 AM   #114
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:47 AM   #115
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As I said, failed drug test or not, shrunken physique or not, Masters can be chalked up to another failed experiment... he doesn't have the character or intangibles to be accepted as a genuine star, and therefore he would be slipping down the card regardless.
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:49 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesSteele
You can't make anybody do anything they don't want to do. Chris Masters will eventually trip up and fail a test if he is still on roids. He will have fucked up his career if he is that dumb, but he has the choice to be a dumbass.
One would think if the wellness policy was serious he would have failed another drug test by now, and as a result he would be smaller again.
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:52 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeanderCarl
I don't believe WWE takes its drug policy nonchalently. I do think that people are finding ways around it, though. And the reason they are choosing to go that route is because the rewards outweigh the risks.

I don't blame the WWE, per se, I blame the wrestlers. But WWE is guilty of rewarding those with unrealistic physiques. How many hugely-muscled guys have come into the WWE and not been met with at least an attempted push? On the flipside, you can probably count on your fingers the number of guys with unremarkable bodies that WWE has put their promotional weight behind.
Just off the top of my head:

Of those in WWE today: Edge, CM Punk, Kane, Matt Hardy, Jeff Hardy, Randy Orton (arguable- but he doesn't have a freaky looking muscle build) ,MVP, Shawn Michaels, Umaga, Lance Cade, Trevor Murdoch, Booker T., Mr. Kennedy, Fit Finlay, Kane, JBL, Matt Striker, The Miz (he is getting a half-ass push in ECW), Elijah Burke,Carlito, Shelton Benjamin, and Chavo Guerrero.
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:53 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeanderCarl
Working with them, yes, when he is never treated - by the bookers, or the fans - as a credible threat. He was midcard cannon fodder.
HE KNOCKED THEM OUT WITH A FULL NELSON or they had it stopped by some chickenshit interference.
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:57 AM   #119
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HE KNOCKED THEM OUT WITH A FULL NELSON
WRESTLING'S A WORK
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:02 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesSteele
Just off the top of my head:

Of those in WWE today: Edge, CM Punk, Kane, Matt Hardy, Jeff Hardy, Randy Orton (arguable- but he doesn't have a freaky looking muscle build) ,MVP, Shawn Michaels, Umaga, Lance Cade, Trevor Murdoch, Booker T., Mr. Kennedy, Fit Finlay, Kane, JBL, Matt Striker, The Miz (he is getting a half-ass push in ECW), Elijah Burke,Carlito, Shelton Benjamin, and Chavo Guerrero.
By promotional weight, I meant the kind of super push reserved for tippy-top guys (or those they want to turn into tippy-top guys). Some on your list remain to be seen, but of those who you listed...

Edge, for a long time, was ripped. His first big singles push came around 2003(?) when he returned from neck surgery and he was super-buff. Now, he looks kinda average, but he's already made it to the top.

Kane? Please! The guy has the kind of large, monster physique WWE loves.

Even though I wouldn't say they were on steroids, Umaga, Booker T and JBL all have those larger-than-life, heads-turning-in-airports bodies that Vince adores. I would hardly say "unremarkable".

The only guy you can really justify there is Shawn Michaels (and possibly Kennedy, at a push). Nobody else on that list has ever had a prolonged sniff at the top rung of the ladder.
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