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Old 07-14-2007, 10:56 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YOUR Hero
IDoes TNA or any other wrestling promotion have a drug policy?
None. Not even WWE.

And I'm curious to hear about the rampant steroid abuse that wrestling promoters encouraged at the turn of the century. I mean, if you're gonna play DA, work at it.
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Old 07-15-2007, 05:25 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesSteele
So, if you have a prescription for medicine...thats not a valid reason to have it in your system? Is WWE supposed to assume that all doctors are like Dr. Astin and write prescriptions like candy?
When your levels are through the roof and more than 2 wrestlers have prescriptions from the same doctor, it's safe to say he is a mark doctor. It's not like they haven't had a past in dealing with mark doctors. Go back to the steroid scandal in the early 90's for more.

Kennedy can say what he likes to tow the company line but the fact is the WWE encourages steroid use since they clearly push big bodies over talent. You telling me that Lashley and Batista have more talent and charisma than RVD or Gregory Helms for example?
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Old 07-15-2007, 05:50 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
When your levels are through the roof and more than 2 wrestlers have prescriptions from the same doctor, it's safe to say he is a mark doctor. It's not like they haven't had a past in dealing with mark doctors. Go back to the steroid scandal in the early 90's for more.

Kennedy can say what he likes to tow the company line but the fact is the WWE encourages steroid use since they clearly push big bodies over talent. You telling me that Lashley and Batista have more talent and charisma than RVD or Gregory Helms for example?
They pushed RVD and he fucked it up. Helms has gotten the short end of the hurri-stick. How do you know the results of the drug tests to know what their levels were?
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Old 07-15-2007, 06:08 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesSteele
They pushed RVD and he fucked it up.
How did RVD fuck up from 2001-2003 when he was arguably at his hottest?
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Old 07-15-2007, 06:09 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingofOldSchool
How did RVD fuck up from 2001-2003 when he was arguably at his hottest?
When did I say he did? I said he fucked up his push. He got everything he wanted and he fucked it up. Yeah, he should have won the title during that period, but when you finally get your shot you don't let (pun intended) go up in smoke.
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Old 07-15-2007, 09:35 AM   #86
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I agree with a lot of what Mr. Kennedy says. I agree with him on everything about the WWE's drug policy. I don't know the intricacies of it, but we've seen Randy Orton skadoo out of so much shit. John Cena, Bobby Lashley and Batista must be on the shit, too. Edge has confessed to taking steroids, but his position in the WWE has not be compromised because of it. The only guys who get punished are in the developmental system, or pretty much expendible (see: Mercury, Joey).

I do, however, agree with Kennedy about most of what he said. Marc Mero probably is a bitter bastard. And what would he know about how the business operates now. And what Kennedy said about Bruno Sammartino is dead on the money, too.

Kennedy is also right about it being the choice of the wrestler. Mr. Kennedy could probably bulk up a lot more (he's big for an average guy, but for a wrestler he is only average), but he's making his way to the top without being a Bobby Lashley or a John Cena. I don't agree with the way the WWE pushes its talent, and I wish smaller guys had a better shot, but that's just the way it is. It's a wrestler's choice if they want to bulk up or not.
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Old 07-15-2007, 09:54 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingofOldSchool
Well duh, they can't stop them from doing anything. But they CAN punish EVERYONE who fails these tests instead of giving them slap on the wrists. ie: Suspend them without pay

I think they should do the Three Strikes, You're Out policy.

1st Offense - Suspend for a month with no pay, the 1st TV show of the suspension have The Coach or Teddy Long or someone announce that so and so failed a drug test and is officially suspended for 1 month.

2nd Offense - Suspend for 3-6 months with no pay.

3rd Offense - YYYYYOOOOUUUUU'RRRRREEE FFFFFIIIIRRRRRED!
Isn't this essentially what they're supposedly doing right now?
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Old 07-15-2007, 10:51 AM   #88
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btw...this is kinda true:

"Ken Kennedy said the words that should be gospel [Ok, maybe a bit over board...but hey]. What happened happened. We can't change the facts. We can't change what happened. We can't change the opinions that the world is going to make on Chris Benoit and the wrestling business. What can be done, and what should be done, is the work within a singular level to keep the talent informed of the dangers of drug abuse, and provide the necessary resources to handle the illness.

Don't blame the industry. Don't blame the giant. It's a singular basis problem that needs to be handled on a bigger scale, perhaps in a bigger frame or facet, but to say that the WWE or the NWA or other organizations assisted in helping these talents put the needle in the arm of a talented athlete, it's appalling to think that this is the way the world is thinking now."

http://www.wrestleview.com/news2006/1184441087.shtml
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Old 07-15-2007, 10:59 AM   #89
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Don't blame the industry that pushes drugs on people when people die of overdoses. They can quit and find jobs elsewhere. I'm sure someone with "Pro Wrestler" on his resumé can find plenty of jobs in either the food service or ditch digging industry.
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Old 07-15-2007, 11:02 AM   #90
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Who said anyone forces the drugs on them? There's always gonna be two sides to the story, and people making claims on both of them...some of them outrages some of them not. I don't think this is ever going to be settled peacefully really. I agree that we shouldn't point the finger directly at the WWE though.
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Old 07-15-2007, 11:05 AM   #91
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But all wrestling promotions continue to push guys to main event (where the big money is) based on size.

So the industry has indeed assisted in helping these talents take steriods.

It's the system that is iwrong.

Kennedy is right though you can't change the past, but people in wrestling have to work together in order to change.
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Old 07-15-2007, 11:08 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha
Who said anyone forces the drugs on them? There's always gonna be two sides to the story, and people making claims on both of them...some of them outrages some of them not. I don't think this is ever going to be settled peacefully really. I agree that we shouldn't point the finger directly at the WWE though.
Nobody. Except, you know, that was a large pretense of the 80s steroids scandal, push is based on physique, etc.

I know you're Canadian, so I'll give you a pass on the rampant denial, but seriously.
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Old 07-15-2007, 11:09 AM   #93
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So should we blame McDonald's and other fast food places for making people fat? Doesn't QUITE fit I know...but if we're going to blame wrestling orgainizations for making people take steroides then DAMN YOU MCDONALD'S FOR MAKING ME WANT YOUR FOOD AND NOW I'M FAT.
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Old 07-15-2007, 11:11 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Nobody. Except, you know, that was a large pretense of the 80s steroids scandal, push is based on physique, etc.

I know you're Canadian, so I'll give you a pass on the rampant denial, but seriously.
I wasn't denying that there;'s issues with drugs in wrestling..my point was was that people are saying that they don't seem to have a choice at all when they do. Maybe I'm wring wit hmy thinking here, but I may not be a musclehead, but if I wanted to be a wrestler and was maybe in the upper midcard, I still have my "dream job" do I not?
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Old 07-15-2007, 11:24 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha
So should we blame McDonald's and other fast food places for making people fat? Doesn't QUITE fit I know...but if we're going to blame wrestling orgainizations for making people take steroides then DAMN YOU MCDONALD'S FOR MAKING ME WANT YOUR FOOD AND NOW I'M FAT.
Does McDonalds require you to have a certain physique to get their "best" food?
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Old 07-15-2007, 11:26 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha
I wasn't denying that there;'s issues with drugs in wrestling..
Except what you're saying goes back to turning a blind eye to the problems which are there which relate to your statements.
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Old 07-15-2007, 11:42 AM   #97
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So the fact that you requite to be a huge roid monster to be in the main event? Insert previous list here of wrestlers who were in the main event that weren't. It might be a bit naive of me to say they it's whoever draws money and puts butts in seats that determines whoever gets to be in the main event. That being said, I'm not gonna sit here and deny that Lashley and Batman look a little roided. Is it the wriong thing to do right now? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I'm not a so called "expert" in wrestling, nor do I know what it necessarily takes to run a multi-million dollar company. Perhaps we need to go back to the days of the 60's and 70's when we had guys wore black trunks?
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:33 PM   #98
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Point to whee I said huge roid monster.

You're not stupid. You know I didn't say that.

You also know that steroids don't immediately require you to be a huge roid monster. The fact is, you even see a huge amount of tone from Cruisers like Mysterio, and almost cruisers like Matt Hary, who has changed definition a lot. Edge did steroids, and while he was stacked, he was never a huge 'roid monster, and that's one that was admitted. Benoit was never a monster, but he bulked up a lot fast and became pretty stacked.

Don't play stupid. You know better. You know a lot better.

And yes, it is the WRONG thing to do in a publically traded company in the midst of a steroid concern, especially when it amounts to defrauding your investors.
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:35 PM   #99
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And I don't know if you're aware of this, but if the WWE is turning a blind eye to drug and steroid abuse in WWE, after making claims to the contrary, it does come down to a fucking felony offense.

Now, I can't even imagine an argument for why that's not wrong.
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:50 PM   #100
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Yes...I can't argue that point. But in some senses who are we to say that the drug policy is a fraud until we have proof that is the case? Maybe they DO have the same policy as other sports, yet people might be able to find a way around it. If they are turning a blind eye then sure, bring on the charges.
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Old 07-15-2007, 04:09 PM   #101
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Old 07-15-2007, 04:52 PM   #102
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Old 07-15-2007, 08:58 PM   #103
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Why does the WWE or pro wrestling push the biggest guys?

Because it's what sells.

Who does it sell to?

The people that watch.

Now some of the people that watch are crying foul, calling for changes. Hypocrisy. Reminds me of a type of person that says they hate Wal*Mart for all it's shady business practices, yet still shop there because the prices are lower.

Pro wrestling gives it's audience what it wants. There is some responsibility to be pointed at the fans if finger pointing is going to be the flavour of the day.
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Old 07-15-2007, 09:30 PM   #104
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Well see I would never know if smaller guys can sell in WWE or pro wrestling, because for the most part they aren't ever given a chance to.

Also I didn't really see any crowds calling for a Bobby Lashley push to the main event.

I think more often then not pro wrestling tries to tell the fans what they want. I think that's been a major complaint towards the WWE... Especially in recent years.
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Old 07-17-2007, 01:36 PM   #105
Rob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YOUR Hero
Why does the WWE or pro wrestling push the biggest guys?

Because it's what sells.

Who does it sell to?

The people that watch.
Steve Austin is the biggest draw in the wrestling business and he isn't a "big guy".
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Old 07-17-2007, 01:59 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
Steve Austin is the biggest draw in the wrestling business and he isn't a "big guy".
Don't forget The Rock
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Old 07-17-2007, 03:15 PM   #107
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http://www.pwbts.com/messages/10650.htm

Well it appears that Benoit had roids in his system.
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Old 07-17-2007, 03:31 PM   #108
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They aren't exactly scrawny midgets, but I see your point. Those are 2 guys out of how many "big draws" in the history of wrestling.
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Old 07-19-2007, 12:16 AM   #109
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You know, just thought of something. I love how Kennedy talks about guys snorting coke and taking pills in the 80s, but then bitches out Mero saying stuff because he hasn't been in the business for five years and is not in a WWE lockeroom today. Um Ken, were you wrestling for the WWF in the 80's?
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Old 07-19-2007, 08:36 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
Steve Austin is the biggest draw in the wrestling business and he isn't a "big guy".
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingofOldSchool
Don't forget The Rock
If you divide all wrestlers into "big guys" and "little guys," Austin and the Rock are definitely "big guys."
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Old 07-19-2007, 08:37 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
You know, just thought of something. I love how Kennedy talks about guys snorting coke and taking pills in the 80s, but then bitches out Mero saying stuff because he hasn't been in the business for five years and is not in a WWE lockeroom today. Um Ken, were you wrestling for the WWF in the 80's?
Umm, dozens of guys who worked for the WWF in the 80's have come out and admitted doing pills and coke in the 80s. Not really the same.
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Old 07-19-2007, 08:56 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthTedious
If you divide all wrestlers into "big guys" and "little guys," Austin and the Rock are definitely "big guys."
No, they are an in-between.

Big guys would be guys like Lashley, Lesnar, Scott Steiner, and circa 2003 Triple H.
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:00 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthTedious
Umm, dozens of guys who worked for the WWF in the 80's have come out and admitted doing pills and coke in the 80s. Not really the same.
No, it is kinda the same.

Kennedy wasn't wrestling for WWE in the 80's, yet he's talking like he was in the lockerroom back then. However, when someone like Marc Mero talks about drug use backstage in today's WWE, Kennedy gets on to him for "not being around the company in 5 years (will more like 7 or so)."

Of course we all know there is a drug problem in today's WWE as well. I don't think LC was denying that drugs were rampant in the 80's, he was simply pointing out the fact that Kennedy was bashing Mero for the same thing he was doing.
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:07 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthTedious
If you divide all wrestlers into "big guys" and "little guys," Austin and the Rock are definitely "big guys."
wow. seriously, just stop. go rep BDC or something

And Koos saved me a reply to your reply on my post.
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:11 AM   #115
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There's so much love in here.
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:15 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingofOldSchool
No, it is kinda the same.

Kennedy wasn't wrestling for WWE in the 80's, yet he's talking like he was in the lockerroom back then. However, when someone like Marc Mero talks about drug use backstage in today's WWE, Kennedy gets on to him for "not being around the company in 5 years (will more like 7 or so)."

Of course we all know there is a drug problem in today's WWE as well. I don't think LC was denying that drugs were rampant in the 80's, he was simply pointing out the fact that Kennedy was bashing Mero for the same thing he was doing.
They aren't doing the same thing. Kennedy is referring to something that happened in the past as confirmed by quite a few guys who were there at the time, things that aren't in dispute. Mero is talking about what is happening right now and giving no reference for it (if he has done so, point me to it and I'll retract.)
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:17 AM   #117
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Just to be perfectly clear: if Mero has current WWE contacts who are saying this, then yeah, they are doing the same thing. But I haven't heard him say anything along the lines of "I know guys in WWE today who tell me this" (and even if he did, I'd like some names.) I'm surprised we don't even have a bunch of TNA guys coming out to slander WWE over this, they seem to do it so well otherwise.
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:25 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthTedious
Umm, dozens of guys who worked for the WWF in the 80's have come out and admitted doing pills and coke in the 80s. Not really the same.
And there have been no admissions to drug use in the last 5 years?
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:30 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
And there have been no admissions to drug use in the last 5 years?
I don't think anyone is saying that, I think there is a challenge being made to Mero's "OMG EVERYONES IS ON TEH DRUGS ALL THE TIMEZ WE NEEDS TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE" spiel.
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:32 AM   #120
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Kennedy got on Mero's case for not being in a WWE lockeroom today, so he should not talk.

Kennedy is talking about guys in the 80's as if he were there.

It's common knowledge drugs, drinking, pills go on today and have went on back then. If you don't believe this, you have your head under a rock.
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