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Old 08-02-2007, 01:36 AM   #81
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Triple H might bring up the ratings a bit.

Austin, Rock, Taker, Big Show, Chris Jericho. These guys would definatly bring the ratings up. I know Austin or The Rock wouldn't come back full-time bt even if they appeared on a show every other week. People would love to see em.
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Old 08-02-2007, 04:27 AM   #82
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Should I be concerned with RAW geting a 2.5? I mean, I see that last week, RAW got a 3.4. But is that really a call for concern? I'll admit that these Nielsen ratings don't really mean anything to me.

Could someone phrase it into layman's terms, like a figure of how many people tuned out?
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Old 08-02-2007, 04:32 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Splaya
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The only way to end the ratings plunge is to not neccessarily end the brand extension, but, weed out all the unusable talent, stack your Monday nights with 2 hours of Supserstar talent (I'm talking upper midcard to top level talents) turn Smackdown into a show of the Cruiserweight title, unify the tag titles, and have maybe a 3rd title in the mix. Keep ECW the way it is, and on Raw have 1 Undisputed Champion, and the IC title.
I'm sure what you said is great and all (no hating or anything), but....

....YOU JUST CONFUSED THE HOLY FUCK OUT OF ME!!!!!
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Old 08-02-2007, 04:36 AM   #84
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The main problem here, too, is that the rating is a reflection of what happened the week BEFORE. So this rating is basically a reflection of what happened last week (which probably was terrible). Now, say during a night in which they would get a 0.2 rating on RAW, that Maria, Candice, and Mickie had a hottest 3-way you would EVER see. The next week, you would see a show of Cena having nasty gay sex with Vince drawing a 20.0 because the people watching want more of the lesbian 3-way that they heard about. They get disappointed that they got grossed out that week they decided to watch, and then the week after, it's 5.2 or 2.5 again. It's been doing this for years now, but doesn't say that the WWE's product is any less awful right now.
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Old 08-02-2007, 06:48 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fugitive
Should I be concerned with RAW geting a 2.5? I mean, I see that last week, RAW got a 3.4. But is that really a call for concern? I'll admit that these Nielsen ratings don't really mean anything to me.

Could someone phrase it into layman's terms, like a figure of how many people tuned out?
I think ratings pretty much translate into millions. So for 3.4 million to decrease to 2.5 million, that means that 900,000 people who watched last week did not watch this week.
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Old 08-02-2007, 06:55 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkpower
The main problem here, too, is that the rating is a reflection of what happened the week BEFORE. So this rating is basically a reflection of what happened last week (which probably was terrible). Now, say during a night in which they would get a 0.2 rating on RAW, that Maria, Candice, and Mickie had a hottest 3-way you would EVER see. The next week, you would see a show of Cena having nasty gay sex with Vince drawing a 20.0 because the people watching want more of the lesbian 3-way that they heard about. They get disappointed that they got grossed out that week they decided to watch, and then the week after, it's 5.2 or 2.5 again. It's been doing this for years now, but doesn't say that the WWE's product is any less awful right now.
That's absolutely true, and it's something I've been meaning to say way back when BDC made the post about being surprised because RAW didn't completely suck this week (there was some unpredictable booking). The truth is that the rating has gone down because of last week's show, which was headlined by John Cena & Candice Michelle vs. Umaga, Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch.

Now, I like Cade & Murdoch, and Eddie Fatu has been doing a great job with the Umaga character, but it's easy to see why that main event doesn't capture the imagination of the audience. For one, it doesn't even make sense. How are those teams fair? Women are generally considered to be outside the realm of male wrestling, so taking her as a non-factor, that's basically a 3-on-1 Handicap Match, for no logical reason at all. Handicap Matches do have a place in wrestling, believe it or not. For correct usage of the Handicap Match, you can see Chris Jericho's feud with William Regal over the IC Title in 2001, and even Big Daddy V's path of destruction against nobodies in ECW.

Sticking the Tag Team Champions in their own specialty match, with a partner they have no prior association with, against John Cena just doesn't make sense, and I was turned off by the thought of that match. I'm sure it's not the only factor, but I don't think it can be completely discounted.

No doubt Vince will blame Carlito and Mr. Kennedy, which is just bullshit. The WWE lives and dies by their main eventers in this "era," so the blame, if put on any talent, has to go to John Cena and Randy Orton. Now, I think writing is the main cause of it, but if this leads to John Cena and Randy Orton being shuffled down a bit (where they belong) it will ultimately be for the best.
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Old 08-02-2007, 07:06 AM   #87
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Now, how to get the ratings up again? I've suggested Paul Heyman be given booking powers, and that they end the brand split, sort of, but here is just a show they could run next week, which will hopefully be good in quality, and go a long way to helping the WWE get back to where they were before even the idiots started to wisen up.

Open with a great match. Not just a solid match, a great match, that people will remember and can talk about. The one that comes to mind is Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch defending the World Tag Team Championship in a TLC Match against The World's Greatest Tag Team and Paul London & Brian Kendrick. It will be fun, the fans will get a nice surprise, and thus be into it, and it doesn't open with main eventers, who you will need later in the show.
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Old 08-02-2007, 07:12 AM   #88
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Ouch.

When you put it like that, hopefully they realize what's happening and take it as a wake-up call. It probably won't result in anything though unless it continues to drop.
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Old 08-02-2007, 07:42 AM   #89
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I wish we could go back to the unpredictable and unexpected days of WWE. I think that's what is needed to bring back viewers. You have the best performers in the world, the hottest storylines and everything else, but if the whole thing feels scripted and repetitive, you're going to lose out long-term.

I remember back not that long ago when HBK tricked everyone in the arena and at home when he challenged Bret to come out and face him and just as he started talking about something else, Bret's music played and EVERYONE fucking busted their nut. People in the arena, people here on the forums, everyone was shocked with the possibility of him walking down that ailse and standing up to Shawn. Nobody suspected that he might turn up because nothing was reported or hinted at him possibly appearing. I honestly believe that's what is needed to bring people back, to make people give a damn. Give the program some life by making the thing feel spontanteous and that you're not going to know what happens next instead of giving us programming that we can go 'Oh, here we fucking go, this just happened now, this is going to happen next, bank on it'.

Of course, I think it's a pipedream now. There's no way we can have that anymore thanks to how quickly anything get reported but one can hope. Someone else said it but I'll say it: Unpredictability is what sold the Attitude era. Unpredictability is what wrestling fans crave and will talk about forever and a day.

Well, that's my long rambling post for the week.
Last edited by The Fugitive; 08-02-2007 at 07:44 AM.
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Old 08-02-2007, 08:06 AM   #90
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LOL Smackdown is now the A show

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Old 08-02-2007, 10:03 AM   #91
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Khali brings in da ratings.
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Old 08-02-2007, 10:30 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fugitive
I wish we could go back to the unpredictable and unexpected days of WWE. I think that's what is needed to bring back viewers. You have the best performers in the world, the hottest storylines and everything else, but if the whole thing feels scripted and repetitive, you're going to lose out long-term.

I remember back not that long ago when HBK tricked everyone in the arena and at home when he challenged Bret to come out and face him and just as he started talking about something else, Bret's music played and EVERYONE fucking busted their nut. People in the arena, people here on the forums, everyone was shocked with the possibility of him walking down that ailse and standing up to Shawn. Nobody suspected that he might turn up because nothing was reported or hinted at him possibly appearing. I honestly believe that's what is needed to bring people back, to make people give a damn. Give the program some life by making the thing feel spontanteous and that you're not going to know what happens next instead of giving us programming that we can go 'Oh, here we fucking go, this just happened now, this is going to happen next, bank on it'.

Of course, I think it's a pipedream now. There's no way we can have that anymore thanks to how quickly anything get reported but one can hope. Someone else said it but I'll say it: Unpredictability is what sold the Attitude era. Unpredictability is what wrestling fans crave and will talk about forever and a day.

Well, that's my long rambling post for the week.
Erm....this is exactly the sort of booking which killed WCW.
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Old 08-02-2007, 11:20 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fugitive
Should I be concerned with RAW geting a 2.5? I mean, I see that last week, RAW got a 3.4. But is that really a call for concern? I'll admit that these Nielsen ratings don't really mean anything to me.

Could someone phrase it into layman's terms, like a figure of how many people tuned out?
Last week, WWE Scored below a 3.0.

The week before, they scored a 2.9 and a 2.7 on hourlies.

By the way, a point is more than a million, usually. Even on a Saturday Night, a .9 rating for TNA was drawing almost a million and a half.

Using last weekn's Nielsen ratings, the lowest ranked top ten show drew a 3.0, and got 4.3 million viewers.

And that was Spongebob.

Lower ratings, in this case ratings that are dropping out of the top ten for the first time (This isn't the first instance, mind) in recent years, can mean loss of advertising up to (And this is a bit extreme right now, I'm not syaing it WILL happen) loss of show. What it means right now is that Raw was consistently getting 6 million viewers each week easily only 6 months ago. They've lost roughly a third of their audience in six months, and a third of their audience the year before.
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Old 08-02-2007, 02:15 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanked
Triple H might bring up the ratings a bit.

Austin, Rock, Taker, Big Show, Chris Jericho. These guys would definatly bring the ratings up. I know Austin or The Rock wouldn't come back full-time bt even if they appeared on a show every other week. People would love to see em.
Austin can't work anymore.

Rock makes more money in Hollywood without beating his body for carnies.

Taker is injured.

Big Show turned down over $1.5 million a year to leave because he is sick of the company and is hurt.

Jericho will come back for enough money.
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Old 08-02-2007, 05:36 PM   #95
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These people would not make a difference in the WWE's tanking ratings, except for maybe a short 3-4 week spike.

The problem is in the story telling. Nobody has a character anymore. Back during the boom, Stone Cold was a white-trash, Texas redneck ass-kicker (which, unsurprisingly, America related to); The Rock was a cocky, full of himself, asshole; The Undertaker was a gothic freakshow deadman; Triple H and his cronies were sophomoric punk asses, and then HHH became a power hungry prick; Mankind was a bump-taking, hardcore freak. These were characters that people would come back to see.

Today, you're either a good-as-gold babyface (Cena, Lashley, Batista, Rey Mysterio), a cocky heel (Orton, Morrison, Edge), a monster (Umaga, Great Khali), or a has-been who is still burning off the fumes of his old greatness (HHH, Shawn Michaels, Undertaker).

People with real gimmicks, like The Boogeyman and Eugene, are just fucking lame as shit. And the good characters, like King Booker and Mr. Kennedy, are wasted, squandered, and underutilized until the fans don't care about them anymore. Guys that the fans OBVIOUSLY love and relate to, who haven't "earned their stripes yet," are buried in the WWE heirarchy (CM Punk as a prime example).


No amount of old stars will bring WWE back to its old glory. The mindset and the story-writers are going to have to change.
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Old 08-02-2007, 05:46 PM   #96
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I'm gonna treat this 2.5 as an anomaly, because 3.4-2.5 in one week is just a huge drop. ECW didn't even drop that fast. I'm saying there was something wrong with the system or something like that.

Now the ratings were on a downward trend anyway so still there is a problem that needs to be fixed. I just don't think heads should have to roll quite yet.
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Old 08-02-2007, 07:40 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legend
I'm gonna treat this 2.5 as an anomaly, because 3.4-2.5 in one week is just a huge drop. ECW didn't even drop that fast. I'm saying there was something wrong with the system or something like that.

Now the ratings were on a downward trend anyway so still there is a problem that needs to be fixed. I just don't think heads should have to roll quite yet.
If Vince returns and RAW gets below 3.0, heads will roll in Stamford
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Old 08-02-2007, 07:56 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legend
I'm gonna treat this 2.5 as an anomaly, because 3.4-2.5 in one week is just a huge drop. ECW didn't even drop that fast. I'm saying there was something wrong with the system or something like that.

Now the ratings were on a downward trend anyway so still there is a problem that needs to be fixed. I just don't think heads should have to roll quite yet.
Just to be clear, according to the NIELSENS, last week was less than 3.0, and the week before was 2.8.

This is not a fucking anomaly, people. It's not a glitch, and there's no huge drop. WWE has been driving people off for ages now. The only thing that spiked their ratings recently were the three hour specials, and I guarantee you if they do them more often, ratings won't be as big.

Most importantly, this is not ahuge drop. I don't really know where 3.4 came from, but it contradicts the number given by NMR, and I tend to believe the Nielsens on their own ratings. They've been hard pressed to get above 3.0 of late, period.
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Old 08-03-2007, 01:01 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cactus Sid
Erm....this is exactly the sort of booking which killed WCW.
There is a good kind of unpredictable, and a bad kind. David Arquette as WCW Champion? Bad kind. Shawn Michaels facing Shelton Benjamin in a fun match on RAW? Good kind. All the WWE needs to do is book with quality, and have their shows run less off a formula.
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Old 08-03-2007, 02:08 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Cactus Sid
Erm....this is exactly the sort of booking which killed WCW.
The difference is that WCW, to my understanding, didn't have a creative filter. Any idea from anyone behind the curtain was used and that caused confusion, conflicts and mayhem. If some wrestlers didn't have creative control either, it wouldn't have been so severe either.
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Old 08-03-2007, 03:01 AM   #101
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Turns out the ratings are wrong, the new ones will be released later. Nielson cocked up
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Old 08-03-2007, 03:32 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Youell
Turns out the ratings are wrong, the new ones will be released later. Nielson cocked up
To elaborate on this further, apparently the WWE has not been happy with ratings for several weeks, so there will still be some changes.
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Old 08-03-2007, 03:36 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06
To elaborate on this further, apparently the WWE has not been happy with ratings for several weeks, so there will still be some changes.
Granted, but the ratings haven't tanked in one week as badly as first thought. But USA will still demand better ratings than the past few weeks
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Old 08-03-2007, 04:10 AM   #104
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Two things need to change...

First, All titles should be great and have credibility (i.e. The IC Champion should be as proud of his title as the world champion is of his.)

Second, All wrestlers should have at least a 40%-60% chance to win a match, nobody enjoys a one sided match. (Speaks for itself really, who wants to watch a big guy throw around a little nobody for 3 minutes?)

...WWE needs to be more Sport and less about Entertainment.
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Old 08-03-2007, 04:49 AM   #105
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Vince McMahon is apparently asking for thinking 'out of the box'.

Here's an idea, take that stupid fucking belt off Cena for more than 3 weeks.
Dump the 'spinner belt' and ban all kids from the arena, in fact, ban all women from the arena as well. Stop confiscating signs that you feel are 'bad for the product'. Keep your ugly mug off the fucking screen.

MAKE STARS, don't just feed anyone with potential as a heel to John Cena. He sucks. He truly truly does.

Simple fact is, they need to decide right now what matters more to them - TV ratings or merchandise sales.
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Old 08-03-2007, 05:09 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hired Hitman
Two things need to change...

First, All titles should be great and have credibility (i.e. The IC Champion should be as proud of his title as the world champion is of his.)

Second, All wrestlers should have at least a 40%-60% chance to win a match, nobody enjoys a one sided match. (Speaks for itself really, who wants to watch a big guy throw around a little nobody for 3 minutes?)

...WWE needs to be more Sport and less about Entertainment.
I disagree with the all titles thing. Granted, the titles should have more credibility, but the World Titles should really mean the most.

Quote:
Originally Posted by addy2hotty
Vince McMahon is apparently asking for thinking 'out of the box'.

Here's an idea, take that stupid fucking belt off Cena for more than 3 weeks.
Dump the 'spinner belt' and ban all kids from the arena, in fact, ban all women from the arena as well. Stop confiscating signs that you feel are 'bad for the product'. Keep your ugly mug off the fucking screen.

MAKE STARS, don't just feed anyone with potential as a heel to John Cena. He sucks. He truly truly does.

Simple fact is, they need to decide right now what matters more to them - TV ratings or merchandise sales.
I don't know about banning women and children from the arenas. Where exactly do ticket sales fit into your equation?
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Old 08-03-2007, 09:18 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Youell
Granted, but the ratings haven't tanked in one week as badly as first thought. But USA will still demand better ratings than the past few weeks
Yeah, that glitch affecting women 55-64 really shook up Raw.
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Old 08-03-2007, 09:25 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hired Hitman
...WWE needs to be more Sport and less about Entertainment.
No, they just need to make it about Entertainment, not sucking.
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Old 08-03-2007, 12:37 PM   #109
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It needs some Hart
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Old 08-03-2007, 01:12 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Youell
Turns out the ratings are wrong, the new ones will be released later. Nielson cocked up
Raw actually got a 2.2 instead.
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Old 08-03-2007, 01:36 PM   #111
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Breaking news. Raw got an 8.2.

Ratings spiked at 10.91 during the 6-man Diva match.

Good stuff!
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Old 08-03-2007, 03:32 PM   #112
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WHat was the lowest Nitro ever? Like a 1.5 or 1.7?
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Old 08-03-2007, 04:50 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hired Hitman

Second, All wrestlers should have at least a 40%-60% chance to win a match, nobody enjoys a one sided match. (Speaks for itself really, who wants to watch a big guy throw around a little nobody for 3 minutes?)
How can two people have a 40-60% chance to win. It's either 50-50 or it's unequal.
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Old 08-03-2007, 05:19 PM   #114
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It was already said here, but here's something official on it:

Source: PWInsider.com
Quote:
According to multiple industry sources, there is a good chance that RAW’s rating this past Monday night was not near as bad as first thought. Nielson Media Research has been contacting several programmers, making them aware that there was some type of glitch in Monday’s ratings, causing them to report low. We are also able to confirm that Nielson has been in contact with WWE over the problem.

Despite this past Monday’s ratings, the past three weeks of 3.4 cable ratings, WWE realizes that there is a serous problem with the ratings RAW has been doing. This is the reason that Vince McMahon has decided to bring back his Mr. McMahon character on television as the company is examining their storylines and looking at ways to spice up their programming. It has been said that Vince is more open than ever in listening to other people’s ideas and is not placing the blame of the low ratings directly on the creative team as they have been working to please him. Hopefully all of the changes will result in a much better product.
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Old 08-03-2007, 05:48 PM   #115
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I don't know what's more official than the last time that was posted.
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Old 08-03-2007, 05:58 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Kane Knight
I don't know what's more official than the last time that was posted.
Well, as you know, nothing is "official" until Dave Meltzer reports it, right?

(Yeah, I know it was PWInsider and not Observer. Don't know the name of PWI's EIC, but they're both the same anymore to me).
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Old 08-03-2007, 06:09 PM   #117
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Plus, there is some hope in the second half of that report, saying that Vince is more opened minded than before. May have been said, but it's worth repeating in the hopes that we can actually believe that Vince is actually doing this after so many years of being the guy that wants everyone to accept him bukkating on their faces.

Wonder how many days THIS will last, though.
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Old 08-03-2007, 06:28 PM   #118
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Vince will probably put on maybe one week of semi-good TV, and then when the ratings suddenly don't increase, claim that it doesn't matter which way things go, and go back to his way of writing.
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Old 08-04-2007, 01:02 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepsi Man
I disagree with the all titles thing. Granted, the titles should have more credibility, but the World Titles should really mean the most.
That goes without saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
No, they just need to make it about Entertainment, not sucking.
Competitive sport is entertaining.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
How can two people have a 40-60% chance to win. It's either 50-50 or it's unequal.
It's impossible for every match to be 50%-50% that's why I said 40%-60 %, some matches need to be unbalanced for the sake of hype, story etc.

if you mean two wrestlers can't both have 60% cause that is 120%, then you need to take a look why I said 40%-60% instead of 50%-60%
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Old 08-04-2007, 08:54 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkpower
Plus, there is some hope in the second half of that report, saying that Vince is more opened minded than before.
...Which has already been stated.

So the old news is old news, the new news is old news, and there's nothing really updated here.
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