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Reload this Page So, Codebreaker... Yay or Nay? (RAW Spoilers)
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View Poll Results: Codebreaker... What do you say?
Yay! 30 50.85%
Eh... 14 23.73%
Nay! 9 15.25%
Loose Cannon 6 10.17%
Voters: 59. You must log in or register to vote on this poll.

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Old 11-27-2007, 03:16 PM   #81
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No, it was a literary technique. I don't expect you to understand anything past the learning level of a 6th grader though so I'm not offended by your incompetence.
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Old 11-27-2007, 03:17 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post
No, it was a literary technique. I don't expect you to understand anything past the learning level of a 6th grader though so I'm not offended by your incompetence.
I'm still smarter than a 5th grader. That is all the really matters

But the point is. I hate Jericho and his overrated ass. K4L.
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Old 11-27-2007, 03:19 PM   #83
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Eh, I don't hate the man. I think he's good for business for the most part. His return could've been more spectactular but it also could've really sucked so I'm happy. Just happy to have the guy back whether he's in the main event or whether he's in the midcard.
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Old 11-27-2007, 03:21 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post
Eh, I don't hate the man. I think he's good for business for the most part. His return could've been more spectactular but it also could've really sucked so I'm happy. Just happy to have the guy back whether he's in the main event or whether he's in the midcard.
Good thing because he will be busted back down to midcard soon enough with his gay little codebreaker.
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Old 11-27-2007, 03:27 PM   #85
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So.....that CodeBreaker move was pretty sweet.
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Old 11-27-2007, 03:27 PM   #86
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Probably on RAW. But surely he is good enough for the Smackdown main event scene.
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Old 11-27-2007, 03:28 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post
Probably on RAW. But surely he is good enough for the Smackdown main event scene.
No, only Batista is good enough for the mainevent scene on Smackdown.
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Old 11-27-2007, 04:23 PM   #88
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For those of you that didn't see it... it's around the 3:50 mark.
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Old 11-27-2007, 04:42 PM   #89
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It lookes like he is wearing penstriped umpire pants.
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Old 11-27-2007, 04:46 PM   #90
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It’s a blatant rip-off of the backcracker, just like Xero said, only with knees to the face instead of the back/spine, so therefore, I voted Nay. Hopefully he’ll at least be allowed to still use the Walls of Jericho. I mean, it’d be pretty stupid considering it’s just one of many moves that the fans of his know so well.
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Old 11-27-2007, 08:09 PM   #91
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Nice.

It's certainly no Walls of Jericho or Lionsault, but it's still a pretty nice move. Santino sold it really nicely as well.
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Old 11-27-2007, 09:49 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteinmad View Post
Nice.

It's certainly no Walls of Jericho or Lionsault, but it's still a pretty nice move. Santino sold it really nicely as well.
If only Rock or Scott Hall were around, they could sell that like the stunner!
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Old 11-27-2007, 09:57 PM   #93
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HHH sold the best stunner ever
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Old 11-27-2007, 09:58 PM   #94
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Old 11-27-2007, 10:44 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post
See, the funny things about opinions KK is that everybody has one. Whether or not you actually labeled it as an opinion, you've already stated yours. Thus playing the opinion card.

My opinion: You over dramatisize everything to try to make the person that you're talking to sound crazy because you have trouble defending yourself otherwise.

Your opinion: That I make wild accusations and come up with bullshit excuses to back them up.

It is very unlikely that we'll prove each other right... But as long as you want to keep going, I'm game.
Basically, you're trying to back out of an argument in the least intelligent way possible. Not only doing that, but you've still really not addressed that you had the wrong fucking argument in mind the whole time (Making mine up for me), and making yourself a hypocrite for essentially demeaning my opinion, that which you falsely accused me of doing. Good job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post
Did I come out and say that everybody in the world thinks that BDC hates everything? No, I did not. I do not find it necessary to label everything as an opinion or a fact because I didn't think that the debate would ever come up. I am under the impression that I can be held accountable for everything I say because unless I am quoting a direct source or unless I am giving evidence to prove something, everything I say is simply an opinion. It was an exageration to make a point.

Point: Of course he doesn't like it because in my experience he is very negative about most everything he talks about on these boards. Whichs leads me to judge him and form an OPINION.

Do I really believe that BDC hates everything in the entire world? Of course I don't. But feel free to overanalyze.
Oh for fuck's sake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post
No, it was a literary technique. I don't expect you to understand anything past the learning level of a 6th grader though so I'm not offended by your incompetence.
The irony burns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteinmad View Post
Nice.

It's certainly no Walls of Jericho or Lionsault, but it's still a pretty nice move. Santino sold it really gay as well.
Fixed.
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Old 11-28-2007, 05:51 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight View Post
I'm gonna wait and see the real ratings before I start saying they were weak, but yes. with them hyping a return "Next Week," the ratings should have already been impacted.
LOL. This is coming from the guy who thought the videos meant nothing at all, and shouldn't be taken seriously.
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Old 11-28-2007, 05:56 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool View Post
It was even just "next week." It was at least 2 solid months of hype, then a full week of heavy promotions that something huge and awesome (possibly y2j related) was going to happen on the November 19th edition of Raw at 10, 9 central!
Where are these people going to come from, though? I'm not saying the ratings are going to be huge with Jericho, but I'm just asking, what can you realistically expect? If 3.5 million people watch RAW one week, 3.5 million people know about what happened. Sure, word spreads, but you can't that number to perform mitosis on the week of a guy's debut. The crowd has to come from somewhere. Jericho is more likely to entice people flicking over to come back, and he might gradually get some older viewers back.

The whole "saving" thing is from a storyline perspective, anyway. As far as smarks literally hailing him as the saviour of the WWE, well that is more a quality perspective than one referring to wrestling's image within mainstream society. How many times do people need to say that Jericho is just a damn fine wrestler and damn entertaining personality that is exciting to watch on RAW? People were never really expecting massive changes, just at least one segment a week that is worth watching, and thus far Jericho has done that.
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Old 11-28-2007, 06:07 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Critic View Post
"You can't understand me and it's your fault."



"If I can't understand you, it's also your fault."
It's funny that KK's arguments are pretty much the same. He says something with no substance to it. Like "Are you stupid, or is your mother just on crack?" You know, something that doesn't even contain an ounce of wit, and just furthers his image of a wannabe Dr. Cox without the chiseled body. There is no point in there, and you ask him what the fuck his point is, and he dances around it. "Boy, you are special!" That's not exactly making an argument.

Also, KK is king of the straw-man argument. He's done it here with Narc (without actually responding to Narc's points, just saying he makes stuff up), he did it with CM Punk getting chanted over DX and The Hardys (I still don't even know how he could be stupid enough to argue against this...it happened), and there's his "Paul Burchill's Armbar" thing which completely misses the point. They're not it, but they're my personal favourites.
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Old 11-28-2007, 06:09 AM   #99
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The fact is all 3 of you are boring me now. You are all wrong.
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Old 11-28-2007, 06:24 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight View Post
Wow. fucking run-on.

By the way, I get that you think you're right. I get that you think your argument is legit. The fact is, you're wrong. You made a blatantly false accusation against BDC, and when someone called you on making up said argument, you responded with more blatantly incorrect and generalised statements.

Or, in a shorter form, you're an idiot who's ranting because he wasn't smart enough to understand the cricicism levied against him. Can you dedicate a novel to that?
The irony here is brilliant.

First you make fun of him for his sentence structure (I assume, or else you are using poetic licence, and that itself would be ironic, considering you tore into Narc for using that in his original post). Whenever someone tries that against you, I'm pretty sure you belittle them for going to such desperate means of attack.

I can't be the only one who thinks that you guys getting your period over Narc's original post is damn idiotic? Everyone on hear makes those kind of assumptions with people. For example, Tovo is going to say something cockish, I'm going to praise Val Venis, KK is going to say something sarcastic without nearly as much substance to it as he thinks. BDC pretty much does act like he hates everything that isn't Kliq in wrestling, and I think he would be the first to admit that.

Yeah, he exagerrated. Heaven forbid anyone ever use hyperbole. God knows KK has never done it in his life, have you, KK? Honestly, calling him out for "made up arguments" is just short-bus stuff.
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Old 11-28-2007, 07:21 AM   #101
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Looking at it, it does look like it is similar [The same?] as Gregory Helm's move when he was active on Smackdown.

Although i think with Helms he did actually only use one knee, as opposed to two knees. Hope he doesnt drop the Liontamer, although he'll probably keep that as his submission move i guess...
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Old 11-28-2007, 08:42 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06
LOL. This is coming from the guy who thought the videos meant nothing at all, and shouldn't be taken seriously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
It probably is Jericho, BTW. I'm not saying it isn't.

It's just that people are making of "facts" and connections that aren't there. ... Some of these connections are really, really lame. The style of promo, however, is very much similar.
Shutupshutupshutupshutup. This is the second fucking time I've had to post this same quote from September 26th in direct response to you. Don't just ignore it and act like the "KK DIDN'T BELIEVE JERICHO WAS HAPPENING" card still plays.

Narc didn't admit it was exaggeration until he was cornered, and before that, he claimed it was an opinion, and before that, he was flailing at KK instead of justifying the damn statement in the first place. A simple "I was exaggerating " would have sufficed as an immediate response, but instead, he danced around original intent for two pages. I'm calling bullshit.

Also, do me a favor. Don't do five fucking posts in a row that all serve no purpose besides rehashing old stages of the argument (especially with no evidence, no quotes, no sources, nothing but "I recall" and "pretty much always". If the above Jericho example is any indication, then sometimes what you think KK commonly does is just fucking wrong. Also, if I can do multiple quotes in one post, so the fuck can you. There's no need for me to have to read upwards of four posts for one opinion.

I'm not even responding to most of that shit, no matter how fucking dumb it might be. Most of the things you responded to have already been resolved. 80% of this argument has already been resolved, you just felt the need to roll in twenty minutes late and pitch in your two cents on KK's background.
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Old 11-28-2007, 10:41 AM   #103
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I say nay....

I like the name because it fits with his current gimmick...but the movie itself is kinda dumb. Maybe I should give it a few more weeks before I judge because the movie really didnt look that clean on Raw. Maybe Next week it will look a little better.
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Old 11-28-2007, 10:47 AM   #104
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I still don't understand what the current gimmick is supposed to be. It's like if HHH named a new move after the King of Kings shtick.


I don't get what the point iiiiiis.
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Old 11-28-2007, 11:20 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06 View Post
LOL. This is coming from the guy who thought the videos meant nothing at all, and shouldn't be taken seriously.
Alienoid, you're simply not smart enough to understand the argument.

That's all. If you think that I thought the videos meant nothing at all, and shouldn't be taken seriously, you didn't understand a single thing I said. I'm sorry that your educational system failed you or your parents weren't smart enough to teach you criticial thinking, but for all your bitching, you just don't get how stupid you sound to any thinking person.
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Old 11-28-2007, 11:35 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Critic View Post
If the above Jericho example is any indication, then sometimes what you think KK commonly does is just fucking wrong.
Commonly what Alienoid thinks I commonly do is wrong.

Alienoid needs things broken down simply for him. If I don't do it, explicitly and continuously, he makes up his own meaning on my behalf. It's common of the current generation who has had their thoughts so processed for them.

Among other things, he immediately believes that if I don't agree with him 100%, then I must disagree with him 100%.

Alienoid's stances on me are rarely based on anything other than the fact that I disagree with him, in whole or in part, and think he's a halfwit. This will come back up again in a week or two. Alienoid thinks I am "wrong" on Jericho, and so he will bring it up, no matter how often it is explained to him, because he will "forget" about it two minutes later. I say "forget" in quotes because I don't entirely know what's going on in his mind, so it could be that he's disregarding it because it's inconvenient with his predetermined notion. Could be a lot of things, actually, but it boils down to the same thing, and tomorrow, this will all come up again. He doesn't get it, and he never will.
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Old 11-28-2007, 01:52 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06 View Post
Where are these people going to come from, though? I'm not saying the ratings are going to be huge with Jericho, but I'm just asking, what can you realistically expect? If 3.5 million people watch RAW one week, 3.5 million people know about what happened. Sure, word spreads, but you can't that number to perform mitosis on the week of a guy's debut. The crowd has to come from somewhere. Jericho is more likely to entice people flicking over to come back, and he might gradually get some older viewers back.

The whole "saving" thing is from a storyline perspective, anyway. As far as smarks literally hailing him as the saviour of the WWE, well that is more a quality perspective than one referring to wrestling's image within mainstream society. How many times do people need to say that Jericho is just a damn fine wrestler and damn entertaining personality that is exciting to watch on RAW? People were never really expecting massive changes, just at least one segment a week that is worth watching, and thus far Jericho has done that.
From what I understand rating dipped down on the episode Jericho came back.
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Old 11-28-2007, 02:16 PM   #108
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Old 11-28-2007, 02:43 PM   #109
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Damn you, Corkscrewed. Lookin' so smug in your Yahoo! avatar.

Bastard.










I have to say the move would look alot less retarded if he didn't do the giant "OMG GONNA DO A FINISHER" pose in front of it. That shit irritates me. I hated it when Edge started doing the "C'mon, c'mon, c'mon" motion before the spear, too. You do not need a beckoning motion or a signal before every fucking finisher, and for a move that hits that suddenly, it'd be a helluvalot cooler if he didn't phone it in.
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Old 11-28-2007, 06:37 PM   #110
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You know, I have to agree there.

What's the point of having an "out of nowhere" move if you're going to advertise it?

But I agree with a disclaimer: he did it like that one time so far. I mean, that's 100% of the time, but it's a very small sample. If he doesn't do it every time, it won't matter.

By the way, I said I'd wait until the ratings were out for last week and I did: Raw drew hours of 3.0 and 3.0. Ratings for the top hour are down, as well as number of viewers.

The "surprise return" was advertised, and it didn't pay off.
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Old 11-28-2007, 06:47 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool View Post
From what I understand rating dipped down on the episode Jericho came back.
Ratings dipped. And ignore what 'Noid said about ratings. Ratings will change notably when the fans care. You can see half point spikes in ratings with less hype than SAVE_US received. Word of Mouth (Or something similar) does work. It's true.

And word of mouth had so much impact on the ratings that they lost like half a million viewers. Okay, like 400K. But still.

I can think of a few conclusions, but the one that's most appropriate is that people didn't care. Other possibilities exist, but the one I would definitely preclude is limited reaction due to word of mouth. Especially since it was so obvious.Going by the logic that Alienoid keeps pushing forth. This is in black because I know he'll use it against me.
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Old 11-28-2007, 07:52 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight View Post
Ratings dipped. And ignore what 'Noid said about ratings. Ratings will change notably when the fans care. You can see half point spikes in ratings with less hype than SAVE_US received. Word of Mouth (Or something similar) does work. It's true.

And word of mouth had so much impact on the ratings that they lost like half a million viewers. Okay, like 400K. But still.

I can think of a few conclusions, but the one that's most appropriate is that people didn't care. Other possibilities exist, but the one I would definitely preclude is limited reaction due to word of mouth. Especially since it was so obvious.Going by the logic that Alienoid keeps pushing forth. This is in black because I know he'll use it against me.
Wait, so basicly you are saying I'm right?
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Old 11-28-2007, 07:59 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post
For those of you that didn't see it... it's around the 3:50 mark.
That match sucks.
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Old 11-28-2007, 08:13 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Kane Knight View Post
You know, I have to agree there.

What's the point of having an "out of nowhere" move if you're going to advertise it?

But I agree with a disclaimer: he did it like that one time so far. I mean, that's 100% of the time, but it's a very small sample. If he doesn't do it every time, it won't matter.

By the way, I said I'd wait until the ratings were out for last week and I did: Raw drew hours of 3.0 and 3.0. Ratings for the top hour are down, as well as number of viewers.

The "surprise return" was advertised, and it didn't pay off.
Yeah I don't like when people call for their finisher, but the first time it was kinda necessary to get the point that it's his new move. But two months in if he keeps doing it then it's annoying.

While on the subject of advertising moves, when Orton does the rolling and fist pounding before the RKO...does he ever hit it?
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Old 11-29-2007, 04:58 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Kane Knight View Post
Alienoid, you're simply not smart enough to understand the argument.

That's all. If you think that I thought the videos meant nothing at all, and shouldn't be taken seriously, you didn't understand a single thing I said. I'm sorry that your educational system failed you or your parents weren't smart enough to teach you criticial thinking, but for all your bitching, you just don't get how stupid you sound to any thinking person.
No, you just duck into a sarcastic shell when you are wrong. You said the videos were meant to lead us on, and that nothing can be extracted for certain from them. Turning around and saying that they pointed to an exact date, just because in retrospect they did, is damn hypocritical of you. But no, KK can never be wrong. Despite the the fact that he's nothing in the world.
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Old 11-29-2007, 05:04 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by Kane Knight View Post
Ratings dipped. And ignore what 'Noid said about ratings. Ratings will change notably when the fans care. You can see half point spikes in ratings with less hype than SAVE_US received. Word of Mouth (Or something similar) does work. It's true.

And word of mouth had so much impact on the ratings that they lost like half a million viewers. Okay, like 400K. But still.

I can think of a few conclusions, but the one that's most appropriate is that people didn't care. Other possibilities exist, but the one I would definitely preclude is limited reaction due to word of mouth. Especially since it was so obvious.Going by the logic that Alienoid keeps pushing forth. This is in black because I know he'll use it against me.
People didn't care about the video promos. They did strongly point to Jericho, but they also went on for weeks, and weeks, and weeks. Did ratings dip the week after they originally aired? I just can't imagine people seeing "next week" and then saying "well I'm not going to tune in this one time when everything is going to be revealed!"

It's also pretty lazy to place the low rating on a guy who wasn't even back with the company. I'd tend to buy the trend after Jericho's return then the one-off rating of his (somewhat) ambiguous return.
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Old 11-29-2007, 05:07 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool View Post
From what I understand rating dipped down on the episode Jericho came back.
But did you not once make the point that the effectiveness of a segment cannot be determined on the week it happened, but the effect it has the following week. That is, people hear about Jericho's return (as many people I know did) after it happened, and then watch the following week if they are interested?

I still maintain that this week's rating will be much more indicative of the draw Jericho is. I doubt he is a draw (at least, not in the Stone Cold Steve Austin, Rock, Hulk Hogan sense), but I don't expect him to send the WWE into a downward spiral, either.
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Old 11-29-2007, 05:45 AM   #118
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Nobody honestly thought he was gonna save the WWE. For me personally, he has. But generally speaking I never thought he'd blow in the door and start turning out 6.5 ratings on his own. Still, I speak for myself and I think other fans as well when I say I kinda play along with it. It's a gimmick and entertainment. "Jerichos coming to save us tonight." and so on.

He's not going to send the ratings through the roof, but he's not going to hurt them. He's nothing more or less than a great addition to the promotions roster who a) is entertaining as hell AND can work matches b) is a well liked star from the attitude era and former champion, and lends credibility, c) happens to be many peoples favorite wrestler, d) can play face and heel amazingly e) is going to help the company.
Save, no. Help, hell yes.

Oh and the Santino match and segment didn't suck. They weren't his best in either department (match or promo) but they weren't by any stretch of the imagination bad.

The bitching is absurd really. He's the goods still. His return was all it should have been, it's not his fault if his supporting cast and crowd aren't up to par anymore. Give him some time. And he's already had one great segment. He's coming for the title, what else could people have really wanted here?
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Old 11-29-2007, 05:51 AM   #119
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And as for, "It wasn't as good as the first one"..what is really? That was his first time entering the WWE. People didn't know what his vignettes and music were, or what the countdown meant.
This was obviously him from the get go, and for anyone in that arena or watching at home that didn't know it was him already, they knew the second it said Y2J and played his countdown before he came out.

It was impossible for it to garner the same response. It's not the original and it wasn't the same suprise/debut. It was an announced return.

As for it not being as good or original, has anyone thought about how it was Randy Orton standing being interrupted at a 2007 Raw as opposed to THE ROCK at a 1999 Raw?
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Old 11-29-2007, 09:10 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innovator
Yeah I don't like when people call for their finisher, but the first time it was kinda necessary to get the point that it's his new move.
I would say the commentators could have done that, but I'd be wrong. Jim would've mentioned "a resoundin' thud from that modified backbreaker" and that'd be the end of it.

Edit: Deleted my second shpeal in favor of something potentially more humorous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06
I doubt he is a draw (at least, not in the Stone Cold Steve Austin, Rock, Hulk Hogan sense), but I don't expect him to send the WWE into a downward spiral, either.
Who the fuck said he'd hurt ratings? I haven't seen anybody say anything except that he simply won't make a difference.
Last edited by .44 Magdalene; 11-29-2007 at 09:15 AM.
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