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Old 03-12-2008, 04:32 PM   #81
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He seemed so over on Monday night
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Old 03-12-2008, 05:14 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dame1 View Post
So you're calling me stupid, which is like the cow calling the dalmation spotted, when I make this thread about how much I despise that piece of overrated cow manuer(sp?) CM Chump? I just don't get it.
No its not the cow calling the dalmation spotted you ingorent hick, you made a thread expressing your hate of cm punk, where as i hate him when he's brought up in other threads, theres a difference because i don't make cm punk threads nor do i hunt for his name in others, christ your stupid
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Old 03-12-2008, 07:08 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight View Post
You mean you really have missed every time someone spelled it out to you explicitly? It's not you "playing your gimmick," you really missed all them posts directed at you, including ones you replied to?

Man, that's actually kind of sad.
Find me one I replied to, because I honestly do not remember it. All I remember is me asking you what's with the sarcasm directed at Punk out-popping DX and The Hardys, and you dancing around it with responses like "I don't need to explain it, if you can't get it, you don't deserve to know." You might have gone on to say something after that, but I never read it, so I don't know how I replied to it.
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Old 03-12-2008, 07:11 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afterlife View Post
What the crap are you talking about?
Weren't you explaining the sarcastic KK side of the "CM Punk out-popped DX" thing? If you weren't I apologise.
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Old 03-12-2008, 07:38 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Weren't you explaining the sarcastic KK side of the "CM Punk out-popped DX" thing? If you weren't I apologise.
No. I was being a jerk because you won't admit it was a fluke event and he won't admit anything. Ever. I think you are the single sharpest guy here when it comes to character development and booking theory, but that was a largely RoH crowd and I think we've hammered that down fairly well. In fact, I'm feeling some serious (and genuine) deja vu about typing that statement.

I really hate it when you two go at it over trivial crap.
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Old 03-12-2008, 07:39 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by addy2hotty View Post
He seemed so over on Monday night
What the fuck? See, I don't get this. He was over on RAW. Granted, he didn't get an Austin/Rock pop, but who does these days. "zOmg, the crowd was dead wen hbk came out...he must not be ova1" Punk got a nice pop, and the fans got behind him in the match. The man is over.

I would not put it past the WWE to pipe in reactions, but I sincerely doubt the Survivor Series pop Punk got was piped-in. Why would they choose CM Punk when Triple H and Shawn Michaels were right there? As if Triple H and Michaels would be cool with that? I believe CM Punk went on to play the face-in-peril in that match, if I remember correctly. Why have Punk look so good at the beginning of the match only to then have him be the weakest link in a unanimously victorious team?

CM Punk also found his momentum immediately switched after the event. I believe he jobbed to Hardcore Holly as early as that week. Then he was first eliminated from the Extreme Elimination Chamber. Yes, I do believe these were punishments for being more over than DX.

Please do not turn that into "Cm Punk should unify every title at Wrestlemania including Women's!!1" It's not. Punk jobbing to Holly and then being first banished from the Elimination Chamber was just horrible booking, though. Punk should have beaten Holly, and then outlasted Big Show, Hardcore Holly and Test in the Elimination Chamber. A case could be made for him surviving past Rob Van Dam, as well, but let's assume that we do hold back on Punk a little.

Afterlife, I do believe there is a third camp in the CM Punk discussion: The man is good, and that he will be successful in the WWE. Despite questionable booking of the man, the WWE has been pushing him up the ranks, and haven't ruined him yet. Vince also mentions him as one of the stars of the future.
Last edited by Mr. Nerfect; 03-12-2008 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 03-12-2008, 07:52 PM   #87
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I'm not arguing that theory at all. In fact, that is my most sincere belief. But until I see that argument made clearly and concisely without massive exaggerations of metaphor and hyperbole, I'm reluctant to add it to my perception of CM PUnk threads.

And, for what it's worth, I really don't think anyone seriously believes they piped in a CM punk chant that night. But it WAS a fluke. Vince controls the show, and you will cheer for your man as he decrees and not a moment sooner.

Also, way to make my name purple. Looks pretty slick.
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Old 03-12-2008, 07:59 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afterlife View Post
I'm not arguing that theory at all. In fact, that is my most sincere belief. But until I see that argument made clearly and concisely without massive exaggerations of metaphor and hyperbole, I'm reluctant to add it to my perception of CM PUnk threads.

And, for what it's worth, I really don't think anyone seriously believes they piped in a CM punk chant that night. But it WAS a fluke. Vince controls the show, and you will cheer for your man as he decrees and not a moment sooner.

Also, way to make my name purple. Looks pretty slick.
I agree that it was a fluke. It was a smart crowd who wanted to see the ROH guy do well. Punk would be lucky to get another reaction like that in Chicago given how WWE crowds are these days.
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Old 03-12-2008, 07:59 PM   #89
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I wouldn't even call it outpopping DX. The crowd started chanting for Punk before Triple H talked, Trips stopped, let them chant, then included Punk into the DX shtick. Punk wasn't even the weakest link on the team, pretty sure he eliminated someone.
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Old 03-12-2008, 07:59 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
I agree that it was a fluke. It was a smart crowd who wanted to see the ROH guy do well. Punk would be lucky to get another reaction like that in Chicago given how WWE crowds are these days.
He did, last night.
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:08 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innovator View Post
I wouldn't even call it outpopping DX. The crowd started chanting for Punk before Triple H talked, Trips stopped, let them chant, then included Punk into the DX shtick. Punk wasn't even the weakest link on the team, pretty sure he eliminated someone.
Made Morrison tap to....THE VICE!
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:09 PM   #92
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He didn't "out-pop" DX at all. He did get a chant, sure. His actual pop when he made his entrance was okay, wasn't as big as DX's though. The chant started small and grew, but wasn't he in his hometown too? Doubt very much he was "punished" for getting a chant in his home town.
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:10 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Class Act Carl View Post
He didn't "out-pop" DX at all. He did get a chant, sure. His actual pop when he made his entrance was okay, wasn't as big as DX's though. The chant started small and grew, but wasn't he in his hometown too? Doubt very much he was "punished" for getting a chant in his home town.
Nah it was Philly
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:15 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Heros Welcome View Post
Nah it was Philly
BUT HE WRESTLED THERE BEFORE!

That = Hometown

Didn't you hear?
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:15 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innovator View Post
I wouldn't even call it outpopping DX. The crowd started chanting for Punk before Triple H talked, Trips stopped, let them chant, then included Punk into the DX shtick. Punk wasn't even the weakest link on the team, pretty sure he eliminated someone.
I get what you're saying, but I would consider it out-popping, in the sense that the fans chose to run with CM Punk. Granted, they all might have liked all the guys in the ring, and they weren't exactly booing the others, but Punk did steal the spotlight away for a second.

And Punk did eliminate Johnny Nitro, I believe, but everyone on "Team DX" had a hand in eliminating someone. HBK more so than anyone, although Mike Knox was a freebie.

I think Punk may have been the guy to get beat down the most on the face team, though. I may be wrong, however.
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:16 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Class Act Carl View Post
He didn't "out-pop" DX at all. He did get a chant, sure. His actual pop when he made his entrance was okay, wasn't as big as DX's though. The chant started small and grew, but wasn't he in his hometown too? Doubt very much he was "punished" for getting a chant in his home town.
It wasn't a punishment. It was Vince trying to redirect the applause. He wants you to cheer who he gives you to cheer, so he tried to dull down CM Punk. Now, as Punk is getting higher up the ladder, he can also take credit for Punk's support.

Why is this kind of formula so hard for ppl to visualize?
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:17 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Class Act Carl View Post
He didn't "out-pop" DX at all. He did get a chant, sure. His actual pop when he made his entrance was okay, wasn't as big as DX's though. The chant started small and grew, but wasn't he in his hometown too? Doubt very much he was "punished" for getting a chant in his home town.
He wasn't in his hometown. He was just over. And I agree with what you were saying, but I think it depends on what you classify as "out-popping." He did get a reaction that was, at one stage, overwhelmingly bigger than any of the other guys in the match. It wasn't a Rock/Hogan in Toronto thing, though.

A little off-topic, though: I would love to see Rock/Hogan again in Toronto. I bet roles are reversed, and I'd get endless joy out of it.
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:19 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
I get what you're saying, but I would consider it out-popping, in the sense that the fans chose to run with CM Punk. Granted, they all might have liked all the guys in the ring, and they weren't exactly booing the others, but Punk did steal the spotlight away for a second.

And Punk did eliminate Johnny Nitro, I believe, but everyone on "Team DX" had a hand in eliminating someone. HBK more so than anyone, although Mike Knox was a freebie.

I think Punk may have been the guy to get beat down the most on the face team, though. I may be wrong, however.
That, right there, is where you and I had problems before. Punk did not steal anything. He did not EARN the pop. He just kinda stood there. I told you a million times, the CROWD made the pop. THe crowd GAVE him the admiration. But he did not DO fucking ANYthing.
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:19 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afterlife View Post
It wasn't a punishment. It was Vince trying to redirect the applause. He wants you to cheer who he gives you to cheer, so he tried to dull down CM Punk. Now, as Punk is getting higher up the ladder, he can also take credit for Punk's support.

Why is this kind of formula so hard for ppl to visualize?
That's exactly it. I know I used the word "punishment," and you're rebutting to it, but that's exactly it. Punk was too over for Vince to handle, so he tried to kill his heat. Not completely, of course, but when you have a guy get a reaction like that, the obvious thing to do is, you know, capitalise on it?
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:21 PM   #100
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But it's Vince's show. He's not going to re-write a 60-man operation last minute unless he has to, a la Jeff Hardy. He's going to take things slow and progressive, like usual, until he gets you where he wants you to be. It's not stupid, it's just the general formula.
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:35 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afterlife View Post
That, right there, is where you and I had problems before. Punk did not steal anything. He did not EARN the pop. He just kinda stood there. I told you a million times, the CROWD made the pop. THe crowd GAVE him the admiration. But he did not DO fucking ANYthing.
I have read this from you before (I normally get frustrated with CM Punk threads just as much as you, because KK and addy don't really make sense in them), but I do disagree with you here. CM Punk did do something to get that pop. He was CM Punk. The pop was not based on his existence then and there, it was his character and past that the fans that the crowd was cheering.

The reason Punk really got a loud reaction in Philly? It was probably because of his association with ROH. Did Punk do anything ROH? Fuck yes, he did. At this point in his WWE career, CM Punk was one of the freshest and most exciting guys on the roster, and the WWE had yet to fuck him up (and they still really are yet to completely blow it with him, although I'd argue that they haven't done the best, either). The crowd were also cheering that.

CM Punk didn't need to do the Charleston or anything to get a pop. Guys don't need to do that. The Rock comes out, takes off his glasses, and he could get a standing ovation. As far as I'm concerned, that's The Rock getting that pop. If there's someone else in the ring cutting a promo at the time, and The Rock does that, it's stealing the spotlight, in my opinion.

One of the things I've learned about acting and performing in general, is that you don't need to do something all the time. Sometimes nothing is in itself the appropriate action. I think in this case it was, too. Matt Hardy and Jeff Hardy are kind of non-issues here, I hate to say, as while both are incredibly over, neither man had any real presence there. I'm not trying to say either guy is bland, but they were taking the backseat here.

Triple H and Shawn Michaels came out and did their shtick, with their backwards caps and HBK jumping around Triple H's Nelson like Martin in that episode of The Simpsons entitled "Lemon of Troy." CM Punk, in my opinion, and this is just opinion, looked like the coolest guy in the ring at that point. Triple H and Shawn Michaels are like dads trying to act call at a picnic, and Matt and Jeff were kind of lost in it all. Punk, for whatever reason, sort of stood out as someone with a lot more (I hate to say this) "maturity" than anyone else on his team at that point in time.

That had a lot to do with his chant. The aura that Punk gave off was just a lot more appealing to your adult male wrestling fan. Punk knew what was going on was ridiculous and cheesy, and the fans could have very easily connected with that.

It was like in the 2005 Diva Search. Ashley Massaro won that contest because she didn't do anything. While all the other girls were dancing around like mindless eye candy, Ashley just stood there. She earned the fans' vote that way.

Less is more, as the old cliche goes. Sorry my posts don't live by that saying.
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:44 PM   #102
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I just believe that chant was something a few people in the crowd were adament about doing, and it just caught on and spread. Philly's a funny town for crowd reaction anyway. If somebody had started a tongue-in-cheek Mike Knox chant, it may have caught on.

It certainly helped that people liked Punk and wanted to chant for him (otherwise, of course, they wouldn't have) but I think there was an element of right place/right time with that chant. It started with a vocal minority and spread.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Punk here, I'm just saying don't read too much into it. If Punk could "outpop DX" or even have a large crowd chanting his name every night, in every town, he'd be a lot more prominent than he is right now. Yes, Vinnie Mac is a control freak, but he has proven he WILL go with the flow for the sake of business even if it is against his own better judgement, especially when his arm is twisted by the crowd. Matt Hardy and his present employment status can attest to that.

One nice reaction on one night means nothing to a long term career. Just ask Davey Boy Smith... if you have access to a flux capacitor.
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:44 PM   #103
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But it's Vince's show. He's not going to re-write a 60-man operation last minute unless he has to, a la Jeff Hardy. He's going to take things slow and progressive, like usual, until he gets you where he wants you to be. It's not stupid, it's just the general formula.
I get you, and I don't completely disagree with this. It is the general formula, and Vince does like to do things his way. I don't think that's always stupid (he is the boss, and should have control and the guys under his thumb, I guess), but I don't think it's smart, either.

When was the last time the WWE created a real star? Batista is probably the closest the WWE has come in recent years. I mean, I guess you could consider John Cena a star, but ratings have dropped under him, PPV buys have gone down. I think Batista generally improved things heading into his match with Triple H at WrestleMania 21. Cena was second fiddle, and things changed when Batista became the #2 guy.

I may be wrong about all of that, but the point isn't whether or not Batista was a success. If he was, though, then it fuels my point: A lot of the guys that have made a lot of money have been happy accidents. Steve Austin was probably not someone Vince ever really saw as a main eventer. He got to deliver his own edgy promo, though, and from there Austin really caught on, started to build, and through his performances became the biggest financial success I believe the WWE has ever had (I think it's been proven Austin made more money than Hogan). They didn't always put him over, and one of Austin's defining moments was when he lost to Bret Hart at WrestleMania 13. Another was his legendary pursuit to be WWE Champion. Not always success stories.

Rocky Maivia was bland as a babyface, did not catch on. If Vince did things the Vince way, and tried to keep him going to plan, then we'd probably never had experienced "The Rock." It was listening to the fans, turning Rocky heel, and letting him go from there that allowed The Rock to become what he became.

Listening to the fans often results in success. Granted, you can't do it all the time, but Matt Hardy circa 2005, Christian circa 2005 and CM Punk circa 2006 are three of the biggest missed opportunities the WWE has let slip by. John Cena from about 2005 onwards is also something the WWE hasn't rightly listened to the fans on, in my opinion.
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:46 PM   #104
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I'm sticking to my guns on this one.

I'm not taking away from RoH -- which IS why he got that reaction. I don't remeber the in-ring antics so vividly; only that Punk did nothing to incite the crowd or their chant. In fact, it seems to me it was just as much surprise to him as it was to everyone else.

When the Rock gives the eyebrow, that's doing something. I don't know why -- I don't wanna know why -- but people flip for that shit. But it's something he conciously does to elicit a response from the people. "Just standing there" doesn't do it. His play off of the in-ring events might have spawned a crowd connection, but being a lifeless meat puppet would not.

I don't want to be unclear about this: Punk, at his forst major WWE ppv? Yes; that deserves a noteworthy reaction. And, by God, he got one. He got what many believe he deserved: an enormous show of "You finally hit the big time" support and huzzahs from his home crowd. But he did not ask for the reaction, therefore he did not create it.

And, before anyone bitches, I said "home crowd", not "home town".
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:47 PM   #105
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I just believe that chant was something a few people in the crowd were adament about doing, and it just caught on and spread. Philly's a funny town for crowd reaction anyway. If somebody had started a tongue-in-cheek Mike Knox chant, it may have caught on.

It certainly helped that people liked Punk and wanted to chant for him (otherwise, of course, they wouldn't have) but I think there was an element of right place/right time with that chant. It started with a vocal minority and spread.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Punk here, just saying don't read too much into it. If Punk could outpop DX every night, in every town, he'd be a lot more prominent than he is right now. One nice reaction on one night means nothing to a long term career. Just ask Davey Boy Smith... if you have access to a flux capacitor.
You are exactly right. I 100% agree with you here. The chant started off with a group of guys who have probably attended a lot of ROH shows in Philly, and the fans are him probably though "Hey, fuck yeah, let's chant for Punk!"

What the WWE could have done with this, though, is build off it. The fans were willing to. I'm not sure where the WWE held December to Dismember, but I know the fans were really hot for both Punk and RVD. They were riding the Survivor Series wave with Punk, I guess, and were genuinely deflated when he went first. You could almost feel collective disappointment.

I'm most disappointed that the WWE didn't capitalise on the reaction, and that some people act like it didn't happen at all.
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:49 PM   #106
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I get you, and I don't completely disagree with this. It is the general formula, and Vince does like to do things his way. I don't think that's always stupid (he is the boss, and should have control and the guys under his thumb, I guess), but I don't think it's smart, either.

When was the last time the WWE created a real star? Batista is probably the closest the WWE has come in recent years. I mean, I guess you could consider John Cena a star, but ratings have dropped under him, PPV buys have gone down. I think Batista generally improved things heading into his match with Triple H at WrestleMania 21. Cena was second fiddle, and things changed when Batista became the #2 guy.

I may be wrong about all of that, but the point isn't whether or not Batista was a success. If he was, though, then it fuels my point: A lot of the guys that have made a lot of money have been happy accidents. Steve Austin was probably not someone Vince ever really saw as a main eventer. He got to deliver his own edgy promo, though, and from there Austin really caught on, started to build, and through his performances became the biggest financial success I believe the WWE has ever had (I think it's been proven Austin made more money than Hogan). They didn't always put him over, and one of Austin's defining moments was when he lost to Bret Hart at WrestleMania 13. Another was his legendary pursuit to be WWE Champion. Not always success stories.

Rocky Maivia was bland as a babyface, did not catch on. If Vince did things the Vince way, and tried to keep him going to plan, then we'd probably never had experienced "The Rock." It was listening to the fans, turning Rocky heel, and letting him go from there that allowed The Rock to become what he became.

Listening to the fans often results in success. Granted, you can't do it all the time, but Matt Hardy circa 2005, Christian circa 2005 and CM Punk circa 2006 are three of the biggest missed opportunities the WWE has let slip by. John Cena from about 2005 onwards is also something the WWE hasn't rightly listened to the fans on, in my opinion.
I agree with this, 100%.
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:51 PM   #107
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Austin really caught on, started to build, and through his performances became the biggest financial success I believe the WWE has ever had (I think it's been proven Austin made more money than Hogan).
Not to be picky because this is besides the point, but Austin probably had a better drawing prime year than Hogan's prime year, but for longevity Hogan has drawn more money in the wrestling business than anyone else ever.
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:53 PM   #108
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I'm sticking to my guns on this one.

I'm not taking away from RoH -- which IS why he got that reaction. I don't remeber the in-ring antics so vividly; only that Punk did nothing to incite the crowd or their chant. In fact, it seems to me it was just as much surprise to him as it was to everyone else.

When the Rock gives the eyebrow, that's doing something. I don't know why -- I don't wanna know why -- but people flip for that shit. But it's something he conciously does to elicit a response from the people. "Just standing there" doesn't do it. His play off of the in-ring events might have spawned a crowd connection, but being a lifeless meat puppet would not.

I don't want to be unclear about this: Punk, at his forst major WWE ppv? Yes; that deserves a noteworthy reaction. And, by God, he got one. He got what many believe he deserved: an enormous show of "You finally hit the big time" support and huzzahs from his home crowd. But he did not ask for the reaction, therefore he did not create it.

And, before anyone bitches, I said "home crowd", not "home town".
That's fair enough, I guess. I'm also sticking to my guns. Punk definitely formed a connection that that crowd tonight, in my opinion. Well, they formed it with him, I'll agree with that. But there has to be something that makes people want to do that. Even if it's not something obvious, and even if it's something that, as far as some can tell, does not exist.

Punk did look surprised when he got the reaction (I personally thought his reaction of "Hey, that's me" was priceless), but I still think that by not dancing around like Triple H and Shawn Michaels, and just being cool about everything, people connected with him.

There were a lot of elements involved. I'm of the belief that if someone gets a reaction, even if they don't seem like they're doing something, then they still deserve it. An application of that "*insert number of people* can't be wrong" saying. Not saying that the group is always right under any given circumstance, but when it comes to opinion, it's hard to argue with majority in a popularity contest.
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:54 PM   #109
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Not to be picky because this is besides the point, but Austin probably had a better drawing prime year than Hogan's prime year, but for longevity Hogan has drawn more money in the wrestling business than anyone else ever.
O.k., just to clarify: If The Point is Ohio, and Besides The Point is Mongolia, you've just hit Mars.
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:55 PM   #110
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That's fair enough, I guess. I'm also sticking to my guns. Punk definitely formed a connection that that crowd tonight, in my opinion. Well, they formed it with him, I'll agree with that. But there has to be something that makes people want to do that. Even if it's not something obvious, and even if it's something that, as far as some can tell, does not exist.

Punk did look surprised when he got the reaction (I personally thought his reaction of "Hey, that's me" was priceless), but I still think that by not dancing around like Triple H and Shawn Michaels, and just being cool about everything, people connected with him.

There were a lot of elements involved. I'm of the belief that if someone gets a reaction, even if they don't seem like they're doing something, then they still deserve it. An application of that "*insert number of people* can't be wrong" saying. Not saying that the group is always right under any given circumstance, but when it comes to opinion, it's hard to argue with majority in a popularity contest.
But, isn't that what I said?
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:56 PM   #111
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:57 PM   #112
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HAHAHAHAHA, Holy shit, dude. That was fast!
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:58 PM   #113
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Not to be picky because this is besides the point, but Austin probably had a better drawing prime year than Hogan's prime year, but for longevity Hogan has drawn more money in the wrestling business than anyone else ever.
Is this so? I'm not going to argue, because I do not know the statistics. I guess that makes sense, though, because really, for the time Austin was around, Hogan was around, too.
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Old 03-12-2008, 09:02 PM   #114
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But, isn't that what I said?
Pretty much, except I'm saying that Punk did earn his pop by meeting the same criteria. It's basically semantics we're arguing.
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Old 03-12-2008, 09:06 PM   #115
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Pretty much, except I'm saying that Punk did earn his pop by meeting the same criteria. It's basically semantics we're arguing.

Are you sure we're not arguing logic? Because I"m saying the crowd gave him the pop due to his history, and you're saying his history earned him his pop. But your theory is my theory. Except that I'm saying you're wrong.
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Old 03-12-2008, 09:06 PM   #116
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Well.. Hogan had a good run with Andre in the WWWF in the late 70s/early 80s. Then he was the AWA's biggest draw in the early 80s, even though they refused to put the belt on him. Then he had a huuuuuuuge run in the WWF through the 1980s and was still a draw in the early 90s. In the mid 90s, he led WCW to record breaking success on PPV, and later as part of the nWo had another great three year run as the frontman of the hottest act in wrestling. And to this day he is still brought in as a special attraction for occasional PPVs, showing WWE still has faith in him to add buys to a show.

By my reckoning, that's close to three decades as a big draw, and two seperate huge money runs.... Austin doesn't come close.

Austin 1998-1999 probably made more money for the WWF than Hogan ever made in one year, however.
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Old 03-12-2008, 09:19 PM   #117
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MARS.
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Old 03-12-2008, 09:25 PM   #118
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Old 03-12-2008, 09:40 PM   #119
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oh my god who cares how can this still be an argument
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Old 03-12-2008, 09:45 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weapon X View Post
oh my god who cares how can this still be an argument
dare I say it...ok

people gotta MAN UP BABY ITS WAR BOYS MAN UP MAN UP YEAH YEAH
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