Official Monday Night RAW Dec.15 2003 Thread

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Am I the only person here who actually liked the ending? And I mean fact is, WWE did the best thing they could do (after the match had been booked anyway, which shouldn't have happened.). They couldnt have Mick go over Randy, that would hurt him, and fact is if Randy went over Mick people would have still been dissapointed.

Originally Posted by Jordan X Also, I thought Foley was gonna get some wepons when he went backstage, oh well. LOL and what happend to all the people that were backstage they all just left lol.

Same here, as I thought when Foley went into his lockeroom, he would come back out as Cactus Jack or something.

Originally Posted by HeartBreakKid2k Am I the only person here who actually liked the ending? And I mean fact is, WWE did the best thing they could do (after the match had been booked anyway, which shouldn't have happened.). They couldnt have Mick go over Randy, that would hurt him, and fact is if Randy went over Mick people would have still been dissapointed.

Nope, it was a great ending IMO. It probably pissed off half the audience there, but it builds suspense. And suspense is a good thing......But hey, I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.

[Jordan]

Well, it was a good ending, left us hanging it could have been better, but storyline wise it was good.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon Nope, it was a great ending IMO. It probably pissed off half the audience there, but it builds suspense. And suspense is a good thing......But hey, I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.

See, this may just be me, but I'm not thinking "what happens next?" I'm thinking "That was a boring ending. I'd have been better off catching the beginning of the Futurama rerun. "

[Stickman]

I would be pissed if I was in the audience. A show with no main event always sucks.

[krakker818]

to me it seems like the wwe is going back to their old ways. instead of ending the show they make suspense for next week....that's how it always used to be, it would end with something confusing so you would watch next week to see what happened...they stopped doing that for a while and it blew...

Originally Posted by Stickman I would be pissed if I was in the audience. A show with no main event always sucks.

Yeah, but ALL TOGETHER IT WAS AN eXCELLENT SHOW, at least for me.

[The CyNick]

WCW used to use bait and switch in their booking every other week on Nitro. At first it was okay, and people were forgiving but when its done over and over, people get pissed and they stop watching, and eventually you go out of business.

Now, I'm not saying the WWE will go out of business because of this Foley fiasco, but its always a bad idea in this reporters opinion to use bait and switch, because eventually people stop biting on the bait. When you add that to the fact that they continue to kill stipulations by reversing everything they do, I think the WWE is headed in a bad direction.

With all that said, and this may sound like double talk, but I actually was glad Foley didn't wrestle. Personally I would have never teased the match for 90 minutes if I didn't plan on delivering. They could have run the same angle in one segment, and not fool the people. I mean I was sitting there during the whole show going to myself 'are they really this stupid to not only give away Foley's in-ring return on TV, but not even bother to hype it to get a decent rating?'. Turns out they are not that dumb, but they made the dumb mistake of lying to their audience by not delivering on a major match. The good thing is that now Foley has an angle to come back to (the whole 'do I still have what it takes' deal), but I fear that they will also be stupid and have Foley beat Orton, which would be suicide.

As for HBK, meh, they're going to be in San Antonio, and I guess they figure they need a World title match on TV, so why not go with HBK, who at least will get a good match out of HHH. Plus with the hometown crowd, its likely to have a ton of heat, and possibly sell a few more tix. Problem is that this is another example of the wrong people being pushed. Why not give RVD or Booker T that spot? Why dont they ever get back to back wins over top guys? Well I know the answer, but its still wrong to push a guy who is past his prime (albeit still entertaining) and good friends with the boss. Ive said this before but guys like HBK and Taker and others need to put out to pasture not the featured stars of the show. Assuming of course the WWE wants to be successful in the future.

I liked the Jericho stuff, its the best angle they have going on either program right now.

On the other hand the WWE's policy of ignoring stips seems to be continuing with Austin's pending return in two weeks. Although as I mentioned before the show, it was smart to announce tonight that he will be coming back, even if its a slap in the face to loyal paying customers.

I liked the Goldberg spot, that was a good way to give him his time off he needs to work dates in Japan. It'll be interesting to see if they go with the SD vs RAW matches idea, or use this as a way to move Goldberg over to SD, and maybe UT over to RAW. Ive said in the past I think they should keep the RAW vs SD matches idea, but I guess we'll see.

Six man tag match was pretty good, whats with Flair and the ropes?

Heindenreich is hopefully getting kicked off TV, and how uncredible did JR sound trying to put over "Big John" as having potential. I nearly pissed my pants laughing at that one. Who else thinks Rico is now getting a huge push.........was that crickets?........was that tumbleweed?

Jericho-Kane served no purpose to me. I thought they should have had Jericho get hurt in the match and then have Trish maybe not go to his side, but like ask someone if he's okay to show some concern and that she still cares about him. But whatever, the match itself and the outcome just seemed to serve no real purpose.

Booker T gets a win which I guess is good, looks like he's headed for another main event run..........damn, more tumbleweed.

Its tough to rate this show. I liked the first 80 minutes or so, then the show took a major dive, and the main event, while making sense in terms of a future storyline and leaving people wanting to see what happens next, really left a sour taste in my mouth, and I'm sure a lot of other people as well who invested time in the show thinking they would see Foley's return.

[Corkscrewed]

I'm once again hooked on the Jericho/Trish angle, which is the best thing on Raw right now.

Mick Foley walking out? Well, it's not like fans knew about the match before the show. They didn't pay to see that match, so it's not like they wasted the money. Lack of a main event sucks, but I'm going to give it the benefit of the doubt and wait till next week to see where this leads to.

So Raw was decent, but not much more.

[Kane Knight]

I totally agree that Foley shouldn't have wrestled tonight. That didn't make me happy with him being hyped to wrestle and then not wrestling. Foley's return/last run shouldn't be an unadvertised Main Event on Raw IMO, but I really didn't like the anticlimactic nature of the "Main Event" as it occurred.

So no, I didn't expect him to wrestle, but I also didn't expect them to disappoint me this bad.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight I totally agree that Foley shouldn't have wrestled tonight. That didn't make me happy with him being hyped to wrestle and then not wrestling. Foley's return/last run shouldn't be an unadvertised Main Event on Raw IMO, but I really didn't like the anticlimactic nature of the "Main Event" as it occurred. So no, I didn't expect him to wrestle, but I also didn't expect them to disappoint me this bad.

Yeah see thats the problem, they painted themsleves into a corner by creating a no win situation.

[Kane Knight]

I liked many parts of Raw though. The Jericho/Trish angle's cool, and I HOPE that Jericho being squashed by Kane goes somewhere. I mean, to some extent it makes sense (Jericho crosses the boss, being pissed at Trish), but it seemed to go nowhere after, as Nick has pointed out.

As boring as HHH is, I enjoyed the Handicap match. I'm a fan of three of the competitors, and Flair was great in his prime, though he's gotten less great with time. La Rés/Goldberg annoyed the fuck out of me, though the supsension of Goldberg was a plus. However, I'm sick of this penis-envy flag waving. Both sides. It's annoying the Hell out of me. Seriously, blindly supporting anyone who waves the flag is as Un-Patriotic as you can get, which makes Ross very Anti-American. I can't stand watching these guys hate on America with their unpatriotic acts every week. If our founding fathers had their heads this far up their homeland's ass, we'd still be raising the Union Jack. But enough of my political rant...

I also liked Cole getting his ass kicked. Much as I like him, there's nothing more satisfying then watching a cocky bastard get hsi ass kicked after shooting off his mouth.

What happened to Lance/Venis and The Hurricane? They were there for about 2 seconds this week.

Of course, as I said before, I liked the way Bisch got Orton pumped. It made for a great segway for him to go on to bigger things. Now, if only that actually happens, and is done well. We can hope.

If I ignore the "main event," I could easily say this was one of the best Raws in a while. Too bad I can't ignore it, so it kinda levels out. I'm just not as enthusiastic about seeing next Raw because of that ending, after the hype. I'll admit, they sruprised me, but I wasn't surprised in a good fashion.

[Vega]

I bet Foley's excuse will be that it didn't seem right, and that he will make his return to the ring at Wrestlemania.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I don't understand why some of your are so flabberghasted. I thought the show was solid from the beginning to the end. You KNOW you're gonna watch next week to see why the hell Foley did that, and that was precisely the WWE's plan. And no main event? What do you call that handicap match? That was main even caliber if I've ever seen, even though it wasn't at the end of the card. They may have even had another match after they went off the air, who knows? Anyway, I thought the show was awesome tonight, and so was the ending.

[#1-norm-fan]

Good Raw, good ending. It was... different.

[Cactus Sid]

First thing, to the person who was saying about Goldberg suspended for 30 days.... he has Japanese commitments to adhere too.

Secondly, I honestly believe that Michaels is gonna win the belt.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla I don't understand why some of your are so flabberghasted. I thought the show was solid from the beginning to the end. You KNOW you're gonna watch next week to see why the hell Foley did that, and that was precisely the WWE's plan.

You know, I think I've already said the EXACT OPPOSITE. Shut up if you don't know what you're talking about.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight You know, I think I've already said the EXACT OPPOSITE. Shut up if you don't know what you're talking about.

Why does that mean I don't know what I'm talking about? I was simply discussing, as one may be inclined to do on a discussion board. I didn't think it would offend anybody. It was just my opinion.

[Paranoid Rattlesnake]

Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla Why does that mean I don't know what I'm talking about? I was simply discussing, as one may be inclined to do on a discussion board. I didn't think it would offend anybody. It was just my opinion.

Woah if you don't agree with KK you know you must be wrong and have no idea what you are talking about.

Originally Posted by Cactus Sid First thing, to the person who was saying about Goldberg suspended for 30 days.... he has Japanese commitments to adhere too. Secondly, I honestly believe that Michaels is gonna win the belt.

I don't know if he'll win the belt on Raw, but I do see Trips dropping the title very quickly to set up the Evolution split storyline.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla Why does that mean I don't know what I'm talking about? I was simply discussing, as one may be inclined to do on a discussion board. I didn't think it would offend anybody. It was just my opinion.

You're telling other people what they are thinking and doing. That's not discussion, it's dictation.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Paranoid Rattlesnake Woah if you don't agree with KK you know you must be wrong and have no idea what you are talking about.

You obviously missed the point, if that's what you believe. On the other hand, when have you let ignorance stop you from bitching? After all, you were the fuckwit who tried to get Mikey banned for daring to *GASP* Post WRESTLING NEWS!

[Danny Electric]

Or he could say that he walked out because he knew he'd risk his life if he wrestled again because the doctors told him not too and he didn't want to put his family through the agony of an other match.
Then he could say that he has someone to replace him and out comes the Rock making Orton v Rock at the Rumble.

I really hope Orton does not fight someone like the Rock or Foley at any PPV, cause knowing the WWE, they will put Rock or Foley over Orton, which would be the worst thing they could do right now. Orton Should not be doing any jobs right now and should hold on to the I.C. title for a while.

[Danny Electric]

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon I really hope Orton does not fight someone like the Rock or Foley at any PPV, cause knowing the WWE, they will put Rock or Foley over Orton, which would be the worst thing they could do right now. Orton Should not be doing any jobs right now and should hold on to the I.C. title for a while.

I see Orton going over the Rock at the Rumble and then getting more of an attitude and starting to say he's better than Triple H and acting bigger than him. Which could lead to the splitting up of Evolution?
I thought the Rock said that he was coming back to put over some of the younger guys?

Originally Posted by danny electric I see Orton going over the Rock at the Rumble and then getting more of an attitude and starting to say he's better than Triple H and acting bigger than him. Which could lead to the splitting up of Evolution? I thought the Rock said that he was coming back to put over some of the younger guys?

Hey if that happens, then I'm all for the match

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon I really hope Orton does not fight someone like the Rock or Foley at any PPV, cause knowing the WWE, they will put Rock or Foley over Orton, which would be the worst thing they could do right now. Orton Should not be doing any jobs right now and should hold on to the I.C. title for a while.

I wouldn't mind seeing Foley go over Orton on TV, only to get put down by Orton at WM XX. That's just my personal preference. Foley could have a brief return/final run deal (Pleases the Foley Marks), but then put over Orton in a big event (Please the Orton Marks and the Smarts.).

[Popojiju]

It's a damn shame that RAW is going to be an anniversary show next week. Now we won't even get to see what happens next with all this Foley stuff for atleast 2 weeks. What a way to put suspence into a show, I think it sucks that we have to wait that long to find out what's really going on with Foley. Mick said that in 2 weeks he will meet with the board of directors and talk about Steve returning. How Foley's leaving RAW and losing his position and then getting Austin back on RAW will play out is anyone's guess.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Popojiju It's a damn shame that RAW is going to be an anniversary show next week. Now we won't even get to see what happens next with all this Foley stuff for atleast 2 weeks. What a way to put suspence into a show, I think it sucks that we have to wait that long to find out what's really going on with Foley. Mick said that in 2 weeks he will meet with the board of directors and talk about Steve returning. How Foley's leaving RAW and losing his position and then getting Austin back on RAW will play out is anyone's guess.

The way I see it, the BOD will likely allow Austin to return, but not as GM, he will probably return in some capacity like 'head of security', or 'head of fair and even justice', some role where he can stun the whole roster whenever he wants. His ability to get physical will likely lead to a match with someone at Mania.

As for Foley, I think they could go with a combination of things. First, I think he questions his own abilities 4 years removed from the ring. And secondly, and this could be more interesting has to do with his promo with HBK. In it HBK said that the WWE is like a mob, you never leave (which is true as a shoot). But for Foley that could be scary because he has a family that he likes hanging out with and he's worried if he wrestles again it will engulf him and he will be back on a full time basis and that would keep his away from his family. So for him getting back in the ring is kinda like a heroin addict considering taking another hit after being clean for an extended period of time.

[StoneColdStunner]

The only good thing that happend on RAW is that Goldberg isnt on TV 30 days, way to go Bisschoff .
It was a medium show, because i really have seen better.
Anyway hope that things will change soon

[Anybody Thrilla]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight You're telling other people what they are thinking and doing. That's not discussion, it's dictation.

I really don't recall telling anybody anything other than what I thought of the show. I apologize to anybody thinking that what I was doing was dictation, but I fail to see it.

[Jason_Hawk]

all i have to say is that the WWE better have one hell of a storyline to back this up, because having Mick Foley, the man who doesn't know the word quit walk out of a match. Personally im in shock, my jaw dropped when he dropped his stuff and walked away.

But i do have to say that tribute video was pretty cool

[ilt_undertaker]

You know what i found kinda funny about RAW? It's when Jericho got the ref to end the tag match. Think, remember when he was a heel, he couldnt even get a time-out? But now, he can get a match completely called off? Well, I laughed.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla I really don't recall telling anybody anything other than what I thought of the show. I apologize to anybody thinking that what I was doing was dictation, but I fail to see it.

What was it you said..."You KNOW you're gonna..."

No I'm not...

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla You KNOW you're gonna watch next week to see why the hell Foley did that, and that was precisely the WWE's plan.

I thought I'd eliminate the confusion.

I really don't recall telling anybody anything other than what I thought of the show.

So you didn't say, "You KNOW you're gonna watch next week to see why the hell Foley did that, and that was precisely the WWE's plan" in that statement? How is this your opinion of the show? Your opinion would be a statement such as "I'm definitely gonna tune in enxt week to see what happens," or "How could you NOT want to see next week to see what happens?" (Not directly an opinion, but a question indirectly stating your opinion), or such.

Since Raw next week is a best of, I won't be watching it anyways. But my likelyhood of tuning in for the next ACTUAL show slimmed with that ending. Your statement predetermines that the WWE's method was a success, when very clearly, a lot of people were pissed (and might not tune in). Maybe the end gave you a hardon, but you're not representative of the wrestling fanbase anymore than me, Dark_Kane, Corkscrewed or BDC.

Now if you want to state your opinion, feel free, as I will feel free to use my own opinion. That doesn't entail telling people what they're gonna do (E.G. You KNOW you're gonna go smoke a nice, fat cock after you finish reading this, Thrilla... ), because that isn't opinion.

[Savio]

I heard that sethpainie writes the most of the story lines now. I dont see why they made mick foley look like a coward. He better show up next week.........

[Anybody Thrilla]

All right, fine, I said that, it was worded poorly. Just because I said something doesn't mean people are gonna do it anyway, and I hardly think anybody should be bothered by the fact that I even suggested that they would. The intent in the post was not ever to tell anybody what to do or to cause a blow up like this. I'm sorry. You're right. Is that what you want to hear? Good job, or whatever. I think there are better ways to state your discontent than to try and belittle me, though. It was a spur of the moment post. It's not like I sat there and thought about some fabulous formation of words to try and impress you and the truly great like you. I didn't know that we were being graded here. I'm sure you've said some things that didn't come out the way that you wanted them to. Forgive me for being human.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla All right, fine, I said that, it was worded poorly. Just because I said something doesn't mean people are gonna do it anyway, and I hardly think anybody should be bothered by the fact that I even suggested that they would. The intent in the post was not ever to tell anybody what to do or to cause a blow up like this. I'm sorry. You're right. Is that what you want to hear? Good job, or whatever. I think there are better ways to state your discontent than to try and belittle me, though. It was a spur of the moment post. It's not like I sat there and thought about some fabulous formation of words to try and impress you and the truly great like you. I didn't know that we were being graded here. I'm sure you've said some things that didn't come out the way that you wanted them to. Forgive me for being human.

Pass me a hanky, you're breaking my heart.

[Fox]

Kane Knight, why the **** do you have to turn every topic into one of your stupid little bitch fights? Get a life already, dude. You have nothing to prove to anyone.