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Old 02-12-2010, 11:59 AM   #81
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good luck with an injured rookie
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Old 02-12-2010, 12:18 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzo View Post
I gotta say, Rams should definitely go line. I think teams have to build lines first. There will be QBs later. Build the lines, get a FA QB, then draft the QB last when you have other pieces in place.
I felt the same way. I compare the Rams situation to what the Falcons were a few years ago. I wanted to grab Dorsey instead of Ryan, and pick Brohm up later in the draft. But the QB is a huge need for the a struggling franchise. Gives them an identity and direction.

Then again Suh is a better prospect coming out then Dorsey was, and I doubt the Rams will be able to trade down since its very rare you see someone willing to come to the one spot based on the money thats tossed around now for rookies. I feel Suh should be the pick since I think he is a one of a kind prospect coming out and should be drafted 1 overall, but QB is the real need and if they go Bradford I wouldn't have a problem.
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Old 02-12-2010, 03:08 PM   #83
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Everyone hears rumors about their team moving to LA.
They will NEVER be the LA Steelers.
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Old 02-12-2010, 03:42 PM   #84
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Name one team that spent high picks on lineman over a QB and had it work out for them? The NFL is a QB driven league and unless you have one of the best you arent going to win shit. You dont build the lines and then get a QB, you get a QB and then the rest can fall into place.

Colts, Steelers, Cardinals, Patriots, Chargers, Texans, Saints, Packers.

They may have drafted a high guy here and there, but they found a QB to run the team with average lines.
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Old 02-12-2010, 03:44 PM   #85
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I have been hearing that shit in Buffalo for years making excuses for Bledsoe, Holcomb, Losman, Edwards and Fitzpatrick

"No qb can play good if they dont have time" "Teams are built in the trenches"

Bullshit. Maybe 10 years ago. Maybe 30. This is the New Pass Happy NFL. Get onboard or fuck off.
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Old 02-12-2010, 04:33 PM   #86
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Little angry there Hanso?
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:52 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanso View Post
Name one team that spent high picks on lineman over a QB and had it work out for them? The NFL is a QB driven league and unless you have one of the best you arent going to win shit. You dont build the lines and then get a QB, you get a QB and then the rest can fall into place.

Colts, Steelers, Cardinals, Patriots, Chargers, Texans, Saints, Packers.

They may have drafted a high guy here and there, but they found a QB to run the team with average lines.
Why did you use those teams to make your point? Only the Colts and the Chargers used a high draft pick on their QB. The rest are mid 1st round, free agent, 6th round, free agent, free agent, late 1st round.

To answer your question though, the Cardinals drafted OT Levi Brown #5 overall in 2007 and got Kurt Warner cheap through free agency. The Jets took D'Brickashaw Ferguson #4 overall and went to the playoffs with Pennington. The Saints took Jamaal Brown high and got Brees through free agency.
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:55 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme Olajuwon View Post
Why did you use those teams to make your point? Only the Colts and the Chargers used a high draft pick on their QB. The rest are mid 1st round, free agent, 6th round, free agent, free agent, late 1st round.

To answer your question though, the Cardinals drafted OT Levi Brown #5 overall in 2007 and got Kurt Warner cheap through free agency. The Jets took D'Brickashaw Ferguson #4 overall and went to the playoffs with Pennington. The Saints took Jamaal Brown high and got Brees through free agency.
Right but they didnt spend back to back 1st rounders on O and D lineman (let alone what, 4 straight years if the rams draft line this year).

My point being that building the lines does no good if you dont find your QB.
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:56 PM   #89
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Edit

If it's someone like Suh I think you go for the lineman.
Last edited by McLegend; 02-12-2010 at 08:10 PM.
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:58 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heros Welcome View Post
Little angry there Hanso?
Yes I am I have listened too thousands of local idiots use the build the line idea for 10 years. A good line does not make an average QB good. A good QB makes an average line good.

Look at Rodgers. he has perhaps the worst line in the NFC and they made the playoffs.

The giants have perhaps the best o line in the NF and they sat home this year.
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Old 02-12-2010, 08:12 PM   #91
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Your a Buffalo fan right Hanso?

If both QB's go before 9, which I think they will but who knows really, what are you thoughts on the pick? I was going to say Anthony Davis OT from Rutgers, but I'm curious what a Buffalo fan is looking for.
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Old 02-12-2010, 08:27 PM   #92
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We need a QB, but if Claussen is not there I pass. We are changing to the 3-4 so I would love McClain to play ILB with Pozlusny. There really isnt any NTs worth the 9th pick. If Dez bryant is there he is intriguing as he is a top 5 talent and we need another WR, but with no QB its a moot pick. I also would love that DE Morgan from GT.

I would love davis, I think he is this year's Clady and will be a pro bowl player.

I am looking at the 2nd and third round for a QB. Actually my number one is Zac Robinson from Oklahoman State. I think he can transition to a under the center QB, has perhaps the strongest arm of the big time QBs,and he has started alot of games and is not a one year wonder which is something our new GM is looking for. I think he will be around in the 3rd.

I think bradford is soft, too inflated by a great team and the spread.

Claussen is the best Pro Prospect and will go too high. he could be like Alex Smith, best QB in a weak class drafted way too high.

Tebow will fail as an NFL QB

McCoy is a wildcard. he could be turn out to be a good QB but I think more than likely he never amount to much.

It really is a shitty year to need a QB!
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Old 02-12-2010, 08:30 PM   #93
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So in short, I think at 9 they will draft the best LT on the board.

If I had my way I would try for a 1-2-3 of

Round 1: Davis or Bryant
Round 2: Terrence Cody (Will fall when he hits the combine at 400 pounds)
Round 3: Zac Robinson
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Old 02-12-2010, 11:04 PM   #94
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No. I never want to see Marc Bulger take another fucking snap. Bradford, come to us.
Ha, it will be equally enjoyable to see Bradford picking himself up off the turf all the time I'm sure.

To me, that is a big "What if?" scenario with Bradford given his injury. The #1 pick? I'm not even sure I would take him in the first round with the injury concerns to be honest. If you draft Suh, you're looking at a 99% guarantee in terms of production. He seems like the kind of guy that can anchor the front seven of a defense and become a game changer.
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Old 02-12-2010, 11:10 PM   #95
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Also, in reference to Hanso's topic:

I think that you absolutely have to have a line, and when I said line previously I meant both offensively and defensively. The game starts in the trenches and although it isn't the end all be all it is very important. Why do you think that LT is a coveted position, and when a big time guy comes out of college at the LT spot, teams draft them high?

I don't care if you're Peyton Manning or Drew Brees, you're not passing the ball off your ass every play. Look at what the Giants did to the Patriots offensive line in Superbowl 42. Arguably one of the most prolific offenses to take the field was stifled because the Patriots offensive line was unable to protect Brady well. Brady, who will arguably go down as one of the best QBs ever was unable to help produce the offense that they had all year long.

I guess I can't disagree necessarily about the approach, whether you get a QB first or build your OL and DL, but having good lines is paramount.
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Old 02-12-2010, 11:27 PM   #96
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You need a good OL, Center and the Bindside blocker most important.

DL really all depends on what D you're playing... a 3-4 where you have fast LB then you can get away with avg DL if they're big, because they're just trying to fill-gaps and take on 2 OL with their size.

Oh and yes OL is a reason a lot of those QB's failed in Buffalo, but more importantly, most of those QB weren't that good, the Teams weren't that good and the coaches have sucked. So it's many factors why Buffalo hasn't done shit for 10yrs.
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Old 02-12-2010, 11:29 PM   #97
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Even though the Big arm is overrated for a QB.

In Buffalo however you do need the Big arm.
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Old 02-13-2010, 12:20 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanso View Post
We need a QB, but if Claussen is not there I pass. We are changing to the 3-4 so I would love McClain to play ILB with Pozlusny. There really isnt any NTs worth the 9th pick. If Dez bryant is there he is intriguing as he is a top 5 talent and we need another WR, but with no QB its a moot pick. I also would love that DE Morgan from GT.

I would love davis, I think he is this year's Clady and will be a pro bowl player.

I am looking at the 2nd and third round for a QB. Actually my number one is Zac Robinson from Oklahoman State. I think he can transition to a under the center QB, has perhaps the strongest arm of the big time QBs,and he has started alot of games and is not a one year wonder which is something our new GM is looking for. I think he will be around in the 3rd.

I think bradford is soft, too inflated by a great team and the spread.

Claussen is the best Pro Prospect and will go too high. he could be like Alex Smith, best QB in a weak class drafted way too high.

Tebow will fail as an NFL QB

McCoy is a wildcard. he could be turn out to be a good QB but I think more than likely he never amount to much.

It really is a shitty year to need a QB!

During the Senior Bowl I was very impressed with Zac Robinson based on that one drive he had. Tebow had everyone talking about him, but he had been struggling so much and forced another 3 and out for the South. The defense then held them, and got the bowl back. In the 2 minute drill Robinson led the team down field for 80 yards and ending it with throwing a TD. Really caught my eye. And further proved that Tebow just doesn;t stack up to the others.

But as I mentioned in an earlier post, concerning the Rams, but could work for anyone who needs a QB, Dan Lefevour from Central Michigan really had my attention all week and convinced me even more during the Senior Bowl game itself.
Last edited by Heros Welcome; 02-13-2010 at 12:23 AM.
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Old 02-13-2010, 12:30 AM   #99
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Man a lot of Tebow hate going on.

I'm not betting against the kid. I really want him to make it.
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Old 02-13-2010, 12:50 AM   #100
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I dont hate on Tebow. he just isnt an NFL QB. Nobody was hating on Colt brennan....

Lefevour is like a poor mans Tebow with better reading skills. If that makes sense.


I think he has a chance to make it...

Honeslty, I would rather have Robinson or Lefevour over McCoy or tebow. Even Bradford.
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Old 02-13-2010, 12:57 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Hanso View Post
I dont hate on Tebow. he just isnt an NFL QB. Nobody was hating on Colt brennan....

Lefevour is like a poor mans Tebow with better reading skills. If that makes sense.


I think he has a chance to make it...

Honeslty, I would rather have Robinson or Lefevour over McCoy or tebow. Even Bradford.
If David Garrad can be a capable NFL QB why not Tim Tebow?
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Old 02-13-2010, 01:08 AM   #102
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Tebow is going to take I think about 4 years to really adapt the game. He just doesn't seem to have the skill to handle pro defenses. He's release is way to long and slow. His foot work needs major work. I will never question his leadership ability since that's his best quality. His speed will no longer be a factor since its not the elusive quickness of a Vick. He is more of the down hill, bouncing off a defender type of runner. And That won't play in the NFL.

Does he deserve a shot? Yeah somewhere down line I think he should get a shot. Will he be good? As of today I say no. I think he should be taken no earlier than the late 4 to early 5 round.
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Old 02-13-2010, 01:17 AM   #103
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Quote:
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If David Garrad can be a capable NFL QB why not Tim Tebow?
Poor choice. Garrard in college was an elusive QB, Tebow a run down your throater.

Garrard was a throw first scrambler who sat for years/

Tebeow is a spread Option QB hich that system stands not chance in the NFL. He runs like an FB against college team and can struggle
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Old 02-13-2010, 01:27 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanso View Post
Poor choice. Garrard in college was an elusive QB, Tebow a run down your throater.

Garrard was a throw first scrambler who sat for years/

Tebeow is a spread Option QB hich that system stands not chance in the NFL. He runs like an FB against college team and can struggle
So Tebow is incapable of learning how to play in NFL? Everyone always looks down at system QB in college. To me it's not a bad thing. That means they can a run a system.

So why can't he learn another system? I really think when people look at players that they concrete too much on what players can't do instead of what they can do.

Tebow is smart kid who won a ton of games in College. It seems like he really wants to work hard, and hell I wouldn't be mad if the Eagles drafted him. God Bless him.

Also David Garrard is not a good throwing QB... Just apprently like Tim Tebow.
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Old 02-13-2010, 03:52 AM   #105
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I just can't see Tebow becoming a 3/5/7 step drop guy in the NFL. I know teams are using shotgun more and more but you still need to have the threat of a pass out of the Pro-I set to help the running game.

His delivery is not gonna work on a consistent basis in the NFL, he drops the ball way to low and it comes out way too slow. NFL defensive ends will be all over that shit. Even if he work on it and change it, the fact that he has to know think about it and go away from his instincts is gonna hurt him. Now instead of going out there and throwing it like he always has he is going to have to think about it. It's not impossible but it's going to take a while.

Why not just draft him for a wildcat style offense? That's what I don't understand. Why try to force to be something he's not? Shit the Dolphins did it with Pat White and they barely use him. A team without an "established Wildcat" personnel grouping could insert Tebow and give themselves some life. Team like the Rams or something, zone read between Tebow and Stephen Jackson 10 or 12 times a game can't be worse than what they've been putting out there the last few years.
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Old 02-13-2010, 10:12 AM   #106
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Remember then the Rams got Orlando Pace and then picked up Kurt Warner at the piggly wiggly? That seemed to work out pretty well.
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Old 02-13-2010, 12:42 PM   #107
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The Rams have passed on Matt Ryan and Mark Sanchez for Chris Long and Jason Smith. Smith is already looking like a bust. I think if they take Bradford it'll be more of a desperation type of wanting to not pass on another potentially good QB.
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Old 02-13-2010, 01:08 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus Shuttlesworth View Post
I just can't see Tebow becoming a 3/5/7 step drop guy in the NFL. I know teams are using shotgun more and more but you still need to have the threat of a pass out of the Pro-I set to help the running game.

His delivery is not gonna work on a consistent basis in the NFL, he drops the ball way to low and it comes out way too slow. NFL defensive ends will be all over that shit. Even if he work on it and change it, the fact that he has to know think about it and go away from his instincts is gonna hurt him. Now instead of going out there and throwing it like he always has he is going to have to think about it. It's not impossible but it's going to take a while.

Why not just draft him for a wildcat style offense? That's what I don't understand. Why try to force to be something he's not? Shit the Dolphins did it with Pat White and they barely use him. A team without an "established Wildcat" personnel grouping could insert Tebow and give themselves some life. Team like the Rams or something, zone read between Tebow and Stephen Jackson 10 or 12 times a game can't be worse than what they've been putting out there the last few years.
Exactly, by the time he is halfway through his windup he will be on his back. On a 5 yard out you cant have that long mtion, which he has on every throw.
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Old 02-13-2010, 01:10 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McLegend View Post
So Tebow is incapable of learning how to play in NFL? Everyone always looks down at system QB in college. To me it's not a bad thing. That means they can a run a system.

So why can't he learn another system? I really think when people look at players that they concrete too much on what players can't do instead of what they can do.

Tebow is smart kid who won a ton of games in College. It seems like he really wants to work hard, and hell I wouldn't be mad if the Eagles drafted him. God Bless him.

Also David Garrard is not a good throwing QB... Just apprently like Tim Tebow.

No one downs Tebows drive, smarts or work ethic.

but he has never read a defense from under center or while dropping back, he cant make all the throws expected of an NFL QB and like mentioned, his mechanics are way off. I know you will say he can change his mechanics. but it isnt so easy. David Carr couldnt work it, and Rivers hasnt changed, though he has still had success.
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Old 02-13-2010, 01:11 PM   #110
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Bills are looking to possibly do some form of the Spread Offense with Gailey.

Fuck it, if you cant win games playing like everyone else. might as well try a new system and hope the unique nature takes off.

Worked for the Wildcat.
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Old 02-13-2010, 02:29 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson View Post
The Rams have passed on Matt Ryan and Mark Sanchez for Chris Long and Jason Smith. Smith is already looking like a bust. I think if they take Bradford it'll be more of a desperation type of wanting to not pass on another potentially good QB.
This. Plus, last time we drafted a Nebraska DT, turned out to be a bust.
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Old 02-15-2010, 03:22 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanso View Post
Bills are looking to possibly do some form of the Spread Offense with Gailey.

Fuck it, if you cant win games playing like everyone else. might as well try a new system and hope the unique nature takes off.

Worked for the Wildcat.
The spread isn't a completely different concept though like with the zone-roads in the wildcat. The Patriots (and I'm sure others but I see them play all the time) run things very similar to a college style spread. Brady was barely under center this year.
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Old 02-15-2010, 04:45 AM   #113
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Im hoping someone will be desperate enough for a QB on draft day to take Troy Smith off the Ravens' hands in a trade. He says he wants to be traded (to Cleveland which is his choice) but I doubt anyone will be interested. But the Ravens need some draft picks since they're going to be hosed in the final 8 rule on free agent signings and have a ton of holes to fill, especially at WR.
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Old 02-15-2010, 11:55 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus Shuttlesworth View Post
The spread isn't a completely different concept though like with the zone-roads in the wildcat. The Patriots (and I'm sure others but I see them play all the time) run things very similar to a college style spread. Brady was barely under center this year.
Right Right....I should have been more clear.

This would be a more college spread, with the wildcat like running options, the Option run and such, where as the pats simply run a pass Spread.
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:10 PM   #115
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I hold no hope or faith for the bills next season as it would only serve to make me want to kill myself
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Old 02-15-2010, 05:34 PM   #116
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Quote:
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We need a QB, but if Claussen is not there I pass. We are changing to the 3-4 so I would love McClain to play ILB with Pozlusny. There really isnt any NTs worth the 9th pick. If Dez bryant is there he is intriguing as he is a top 5 talent and we need another WR, but with no QB its a moot pick. I also would love that DE Morgan from GT.

I would love davis, I think he is this year's Clady and will be a pro bowl player.

I am looking at the 2nd and third round for a QB. Actually my number one is Zac Robinson from Oklahoman State. I think he can transition to a under the center QB, has perhaps the strongest arm of the big time QBs,and he has started alot of games and is not a one year wonder which is something our new GM is looking for. I think he will be around in the 3rd.

I think bradford is soft, too inflated by a great team and the spread.

Claussen is the best Pro Prospect and will go too high. he could be like Alex Smith, best QB in a weak class drafted way too high.

Tebow will fail as an NFL QB

McCoy is a wildcard. he could be turn out to be a good QB but I think more than likely he never amount to much.

It really is a shitty year to need a QB!
The irony is that last year i called into my local radio station and told them how glad I was that we took Stafford instead of waiting for next year. I was heavily criticized for saying that.

yeah
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Old 02-15-2010, 11:50 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanso View Post
Right Right....I should have been more clear.

This would be a more college spread, with the wildcat like running options, the Option run and such, where as the pats simply run a pass Spread.
Oh, who is gonna be playing the QB position then? Mike Vick?
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Old 02-16-2010, 12:51 AM   #118
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I like to see what Bellicheck does in this year's draft since normally he focuses the early picks mostly on defensive players (starter quality) while using the later rounds to pad up the O-line (not starters) that usually is strong.

Seemed like this year the defense showed off its youth too much when it came to 2nd halves of the game and the O-Line itself seemed to be unable to stop fast defenses (ex. Ravens playoff game 1st Quarter). The biggest positive spot was Brady didn't get hurt and got comfortable quickly into the season.
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Old 02-16-2010, 04:10 AM   #119
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I honestly have no idea what direction the Patriots going to go in. I was very surprised with what they did last year when they kept trading back further and further when there was guys I thought would "work" in the Pats system right there for the taking. Was very surprised they didn't take Malauga (sp?) when they had the chance but I think I've read recently he checked into a rehab clinic so I guess they knew something I didn't.

I was also so sure that Clay Matthews Jr was a terrible pick at #15 for the Packers, was so sure of it. I probably would have called it my "mortal lock" of the draft. Obviously I was wrong, so now I am very hesitant when it comes to the draft even though I watch a ton of college lol
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Old 02-16-2010, 12:11 PM   #120
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You can't really go wrong with USC linebackers in the early rounds.
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