MLB 2005-2006 Offseason Thread - Page 35

**RoXer** · 01-19-2006, 11:05 PM

Epstein rejoining Red Sox full-time
Posted: 2 minutes ago

BOSTON (AP) - The door was ajar, and Theo Epstein finally walked through it and back into the front office of the Boston Red Sox.

The most successful general manager in franchise history will rejoin the Red Sox baseball operations department in a full-time - but otherwise unspecified - position. His long-rumored return comes 2 1/2 months after he fled Fenway Park in a gorilla suit.
"As you know, we have spoken frequently during the last 10 weeks," the team and Epstein said in a joint statement on Thursday night. "We have engaged in healthy, spirited debates about what it will take over the long-term for the Red Sox to remain a great organization and, in fact, become a more effective organization in philosophy, approaches and ideals.

"Ironically, Theo's departure has brought us closer together in many respects, and, thanks to these conversations, we now enjoy the bonds of a shared vision for the organization's future that did not exist on Oct. 31. With this vision in place, Theo will return to the Red Sox in a full-time baseball operations capacity, details of which will be announced next week."

Epstein declined to elaborate on the statement, which also came from principal owner John Henry, chairman Tom Werner and president Larry Lucchino. The team would not comment on how Epstein will fit into the organization's hierarchy, but Henry denied that Lucchino's role was diminished to lure Epstein back.

"Larry's role does not change," Henry said. "Details next week."

Lucchino did not immediately respond to an e-mail seeking comment.

The Red Sox have been operating with co-GMs, former Epstein lieutenants Jed Hoyer and Ben Cherington. But their Dec. 12 promotions were overshadowed by persistent rumors that they would soon be working for Epstein again.

"Certainly Theo is a good friend of all of us, and he's worked very closely with these guys in the past," Lucchino said then. "The door has been really ajar for some time, and until Theo goes to work for another baseball organization we'll keep the light on in the window with the possibility of him coming back and helping us."

Epstein's return concludes an almost Shakespearean saga that led him to walk away from the team, reportedly because of a falling out with Lucchino, his longtime mentor. The Red Sox president and chief executive officer first hired Epstein, then a Yale student, to work as an intern with the Baltimore Orioles; Epstein followed Lucchino to the San Diego Padres and rose to assistant GM there.

The Red Sox made Epstein the youngest GM in baseball history in 2003, and his first team came within a Pedro Martinez pitch count of reaching the World Series. The next year, Boston won it all for the first time since 1918.

The Red Sox also reached the postseason in '05 - a three-year run that was a first in franchise history. But what should have been easy negotiations over a contract extension turned fierce and Freudian.

On Oct. 31, the day his old deal was set to expire, Epstein belied a newspaper report that he had agreed to stay and walked away from the team's three-year, $4.5 million offer. To avoid the encamped media, he borrowed a gorilla costume left over from the teams' Halloween party.

Explaining his move two days later, Epstein said, "You have to be all-in. You have to believe in every aspect of the job and the organization and your ability to stay and do the job the right way, with your whole heart and your whole soul. And in the end, it just wasn't the right fit. It wasn't right."

Both sides denied � or at least downplayed � a rift between Epstein and Lucchino.

"We've had a very successful working relationship," Epstein said in November. "I think Larry and I like each other. As with any long relationship, there are complexities. ... But in the end, I want what's best for Larry. He's done a lot for me. I owe him quite a bit, and I take that to heart."

**BCWWF** · 01-19-2006, 11:55 PM

Lol at the idea of LaTroy Hawkins closing. Hasn't that been proven on every team he has been on that he is completely not capable of closing?

**VonErich Lives** · 01-20-2006, 04:23 PM

The rumor is Lucchino will be out in the next year and Theo takes his role.

Theo played this great, he got what he wanted all along. He walked away, and then kept in touch with the owner rather then Lucchino who he had been negotiating with.

Rumor has been for awhile that Lucchino wants to run the Washington franchinse, Lucchino denies this, but time will tell.

**Evil Vito** · 01-21-2006, 11:06 AM

Felipe Alou is considering batting Bonds second

**The Miz** · 01-21-2006, 02:26 PM

Why is that funny?

**The Miz** · 01-21-2006, 02:33 PM

Mets get:
RP Jorge Julio
SP John Maine

Orioles get:
SP Kris Benson

Crap for crap, except now the Mets are minus a crappy starter and plus a crappy reliever. What was the point of this?

**OssMan** · 01-21-2006, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Miz

Mets get:
RP Jorge Julio
SP John Maine

Orioles get:
SP Kris Benson

Crap for crap, except now the Mets are minus a crappy starter and plus a crappy reliever. What was the point of this?

It opens up a spot in the rotation for Aaron Heilman who said he wanted to be traded if he didn't start

**The Miz** · 01-21-2006, 04:07 PM

So why didn't they trade Heilman? He may or may not be any better than Benson and he has much higher trade value. Jorge Julio sucks.

**OssMan** · 01-21-2006, 04:20 PM

Moving to the NL and Shea Stadium might help him out. He had arm problems at the end of last year also. I don't know, in Heilman's first start last year it was a one-hit shutout... he was pretty equal to Benson when they started though last year so we'll see how it turns out

**Loose Cannon** · 01-21-2006, 05:20 PM

you ever see Benson's wife? god dam.

**VonErich Lives** · 01-21-2006, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon

you ever see Benson's wife? god dam.

Is this the one who said if he ever cheated she would fuck every guy in the clubhouse?

**Loose Cannon** · 01-21-2006, 05:37 PM

yea, she's wild

**Loose Cannon** · 01-21-2006, 05:38 PM

kind of small but you get the point.

**YOUR Hero** · 01-21-2006, 08:12 PM

If Jorge Julio can rebound, I think it's a good move by the Mets. 'IF'

**The Miz** · 01-21-2006, 08:16 PM

Alot of defenders of this trade are saying Peterson will be able to help Julio rebound, I don't buy this, Julio had one good year his first season and then the league figured out how to hit him. He throws a fastball 90% of the time and his other pitches are shit. It's possible that Peterson could help him improve, but this guy will never come close to a 1.99 ERA again. Not even in the National League.

**Jesus Shuttlesworth** · 01-21-2006, 11:23 PM

**The Miz** · 01-22-2006, 10:01 AM

Red Sox get:
OF Coco Crisp

Indians get:
RP Guillermo Mota
3B Andy Marte

**The Miz** · 01-22-2006, 10:05 AM

According to the Boston Herald, the Red Sox are going to sign Alex Gonzalez to play short and the Indians will trade for Jason Michaels to fill their outfield gap, sending Arthur Rhodes or Rafael Betancourt to Philadelphia.

I like the move for Cleveland, I really don't like either move for Boston.

**VonErich Lives** · 01-22-2006, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Miz

According to the Boston Herald, the Red Sox are going to sign Alex Gonzalez to play short and the Indians will trade for Jason Michaels to fill their outfield gap, sending Arthur Rhodes or Rafael Betancourt to Philadelphia.

I like the move for Cleveland, I really don't like either move for Boston.

I'm ok with Alex Gonzalez, not too many other choices right now.

I hate the Crisp trade, I have giving up Marte unless we're doing a package deal for a big name CF (Hunter).

Oh well, in "Theo" we trust....

**The Miz** · 01-22-2006, 02:00 PM

I love the idea of bringing Crisp to replace Damon, but I don't like giving up Marte for him. Maybe if Cleveland included a couple good prospects. Marte is worth more than Crisp IMO.

Alex Gonzalez sucks. There is a better choice, his name is Alex Cora, and he's already on your team.

**VonErich Lives** · 01-22-2006, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Miz

I love the idea of bringing Crisp to replace Damon, but I don't like giving up Marte for him. Maybe if Cleveland included a couple good prospects. Marte is worth more than Crisp IMO.

Alex Gonzalez sucks. There is a better choice, his name is Alex Cora, and he's already on your team.

Neither one is overly impressive.

I'd expect whichever one gets hot, they'll try and ride the streaks.

**The Miz** · 01-22-2006, 03:30 PM

Won't be that easy. Gonzalez is going to ask for a multi-year deal. He's not going to want to platoon with anyone. He just seems like a waste of time, money and effort when you have Cora and Graffanino capable of doing the job just as well.

I still think that whether Gonzalez is signed or not, Dustin Pedroia will be the SS at the end of the season

**YOUR Hero** · 01-22-2006, 03:37 PM

Coco is still rather young. The trade isn't that bad. Crisp is versatile too and has speed. I see it as a good move.

**BCWWF** · 01-22-2006, 03:48 PM

I like that trade a lot more for the Indians

**The Miz** · 01-22-2006, 03:49 PM

I love Crisp, he just isn't worth Marte. And he isn't a CF

**YOUR Hero** · 01-22-2006, 03:57 PM

Marte is all about potential. One doesn't really know if he'll pan out in the long term. Coco you know what you're getting.

**BCWWF** · 01-22-2006, 04:03 PM

Well Guillermo Mota isn't one of the top relief pitchers or anything either...

**MVP** · 01-22-2006, 04:06 PM

I hate the idea of trading both Marte and Mota for Crisp. I think it's gotta be one or the other, preferrably Mota.

**The Miz** · 01-22-2006, 04:10 PM

Do you know how he'll hit in Fenway Park? Do you know how he'll handle the Boston media? Do you know if he can hit consistently in the leadoff spot? Do you know if he can be a full-time CF? He's hit .300/.345/.450 his first 2 years, do you know that he will he be able to hit that consistently?

Crisp is far from a sure thing. He has a Damon arm and in general is a lousy CF. He strikeouts out too much and walks too few for a leadoff man. His OBP is not great. Alot of prospects turn out to be nothing, but few have dominated every level like Marte has.

**The Miz** · 01-22-2006, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCWWF

Well Guillermo Mota isn't one of the top relief pitchers or anything either...

Is this sarcasm? Because Mota isn't even close to a top reliever.

**YOUR Hero** · 01-22-2006, 04:19 PM

Marte can handle the Boston press better than Crisp? I would think having a couple of seasons under his belt would give Crisp the edge in that category.

**The Miz** · 01-22-2006, 04:22 PM

Do you know either guy's personality? For all we know Marte loves the media attention and Crisp wants to be left alone all the time.

Crisp does have an edge, but you're acting like Crisp is a 100% surefire thing who has proven himself, and I'm telling you he's not.

**YOUR Hero** · 01-22-2006, 08:05 PM

I'm stating he has proven himself a lot more than Marte has.

**YOUR Hero** · 01-22-2006, 08:08 PM

This just in. Bonds say NO to batting 2nd.

What a shock.

**The Miz** · 01-22-2006, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOUR Hero

I'm stating he has proven himself a lot more than Marte has.

I agree. But that doesn't mean you should keep him. Dontrelle Willis had never played a major league game when the Marlins got him for Matt Clement and Antonio Alfonseca, two guys with big league experience.

I understand your point though.

**YOUR Hero** · 01-22-2006, 08:18 PM

If it was a rebuilding team, I can understand Cleveland trading for him, but they are considered a contender. A team in that position should go for the proven commodity. Same thing for the Red Sox, only reversed, they get a proven player and not just a potential future guy while they continue to try to win or at least get a wildcard position.

**The Miz** · 01-22-2006, 08:25 PM

The Indians are getting Jason Michaels tomorrow, who could be very possibly be an upgrade over Crisp. At the least he'll be just as good. They upgrade at a corner OF spot and get possibly the best prospect in baseball. It's a great series of events for Cleveland, for 2006 and beyond.

**BCWWF** · 01-22-2006, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Miz

Is this sarcasm? Because Mota isn't even close to a top reliever.

In 2003, he was arguably the top setup man in the league. He had an 1.97 ERA with 99 K's in 105 innings. He lost a big in 2004, but 3.07 ERA and 85 K's in 96.2 innings. Then last year he was transformed into a closer and injured for a big part of the year, so he wasn't that good.

Put him on the Indians I'm sure he'll take the setup role again, and although Wickman obviously isn't a great pitcher, he lead the AL in saves last year so that offers some security. You can't argue that the Indians bullpen just got a lot better, and he was the second guy in the trade.

Calling him an elite closer in the MLB is probably an overstatement because of his injury plagued season last year, but he is definately an above average setup man. I mean he's no Jesse Crain, but as the extra guy in a dea like that, the Indians just got a bargain.

**The Miz** · 01-22-2006, 08:49 PM

Ok I don't get it, everything you said in that post was true, so why did you call him one of the top relievers in MLB in the first one?

**BCWWF** · 01-22-2006, 09:12 PM

I still think he is one of the top setup men in the game, but not an elite one. The reason I worded it like I did is because the way people were talking was like he wasn't even part of the deal. The reason I replied to your post is because you made it seem like he was awful, and he's not.

01-19-2006, 11:05 PM	#1361
RoXer History's Greatest, Mr. E Posts: 42,425	Epstein rejoining Red Sox full-time Posted: 2 minutes ago BOSTON (AP) - The door was ajar, and Theo Epstein finally walked through it and back into the front office of the Boston Red Sox. The most successful general manager in franchise history will rejoin the Red Sox baseball operations department in a full-time - but otherwise unspecified - position. His long-rumored return comes 2 1/2 months after he fled Fenway Park in a gorilla suit. "As you know, we have spoken frequently during the last 10 weeks," the team and Epstein said in a joint statement on Thursday night. "We have engaged in healthy, spirited debates about what it will take over the long-term for the Red Sox to remain a great organization and, in fact, become a more effective organization in philosophy, approaches and ideals. "Ironically, Theo's departure has brought us closer together in many respects, and, thanks to these conversations, we now enjoy the bonds of a shared vision for the organization's future that did not exist on Oct. 31. With this vision in place, Theo will return to the Red Sox in a full-time baseball operations capacity, details of which will be announced next week." Epstein declined to elaborate on the statement, which also came from principal owner John Henry, chairman Tom Werner and president Larry Lucchino. The team would not comment on how Epstein will fit into the organization's hierarchy, but Henry denied that Lucchino's role was diminished to lure Epstein back. "Larry's role does not change," Henry said. "Details next week." Lucchino did not immediately respond to an e-mail seeking comment. The Red Sox have been operating with co-GMs, former Epstein lieutenants Jed Hoyer and Ben Cherington. But their Dec. 12 promotions were overshadowed by persistent rumors that they would soon be working for Epstein again. "Certainly Theo is a good friend of all of us, and he's worked very closely with these guys in the past," Lucchino said then. "The door has been really ajar for some time, and until Theo goes to work for another baseball organization we'll keep the light on in the window with the possibility of him coming back and helping us." Epstein's return concludes an almost Shakespearean saga that led him to walk away from the team, reportedly because of a falling out with Lucchino, his longtime mentor. The Red Sox president and chief executive officer first hired Epstein, then a Yale student, to work as an intern with the Baltimore Orioles; Epstein followed Lucchino to the San Diego Padres and rose to assistant GM there. The Red Sox made Epstein the youngest GM in baseball history in 2003, and his first team came within a Pedro Martinez pitch count of reaching the World Series. The next year, Boston won it all for the first time since 1918. The Red Sox also reached the postseason in '05 - a three-year run that was a first in franchise history. But what should have been easy negotiations over a contract extension turned fierce and Freudian. On Oct. 31, the day his old deal was set to expire, Epstein belied a newspaper report that he had agreed to stay and walked away from the team's three-year, $4.5 million offer. To avoid the encamped media, he borrowed a gorilla costume left over from the teams' Halloween party. Explaining his move two days later, Epstein said, "You have to be all-in. You have to believe in every aspect of the job and the organization and your ability to stay and do the job the right way, with your whole heart and your whole soul. And in the end, it just wasn't the right fit. It wasn't right." Both sides denied � or at least downplayed � a rift between Epstein and Lucchino. "We've had a very successful working relationship," Epstein said in November. "I think Larry and I like each other. As with any long relationship, there are complexities. ... But in the end, I want what's best for Larry. He's done a lot for me. I owe him quite a bit, and I take that to heart."

01-19-2006, 11:55 PM	#1362
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	Lol at the idea of LaTroy Hawkins closing. Hasn't that been proven on every team he has been on that he is completely not capable of closing?

01-20-2006, 04:23 PM	#1363
VonErich Lives WTF do you want? Posts: 14,760	The rumor is Lucchino will be out in the next year and Theo takes his role. Theo played this great, he got what he wanted all along. He walked away, and then kept in touch with the owner rather then Lucchino who he had been negotiating with. Rumor has been for awhile that Lucchino wants to run the Washington franchinse, Lucchino denies this, but time will tell.

01-21-2006, 11:06 AM	#1364
Evil Vito President of Freedonia Posts: 58,329	Felipe Alou is considering batting Bonds second

01-21-2006, 02:26 PM	#1365
The Miz Clutch Poster Posts: 11,997	Why is that funny?

01-21-2006, 02:33 PM	#1366
The Miz Clutch Poster Posts: 11,997	Mets get: RP Jorge Julio SP John Maine Orioles get: SP Kris Benson Crap for crap, except now the Mets are minus a crappy starter and plus a crappy reliever. What was the point of this?

01-21-2006, 04:07 PM	#1368
The Miz Clutch Poster Posts: 11,997	So why didn't they trade Heilman? He may or may not be any better than Benson and he has much higher trade value. Jorge Julio sucks.

01-21-2006, 04:20 PM	#1369
OssMan The Classic Dylan Staples Posts: 51,474	Moving to the NL and Shea Stadium might help him out. He had arm problems at the end of last year also. I don't know, in Heilman's first start last year it was a one-hit shutout... he was pretty equal to Benson when they started though last year so we'll see how it turns out

01-21-2006, 05:20 PM	#1370
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	you ever see Benson's wife? god dam.

01-21-2006, 05:37 PM	#1372
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	yea, she's wild

01-21-2006, 05:38 PM	#1373
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	kind of small but you get the point.

01-21-2006, 08:12 PM	#1374
YOUR Hero Adminstigator Posts: 102,491	If Jorge Julio can rebound, I think it's a good move by the Mets. 'IF'

01-21-2006, 08:16 PM	#1375
The Miz Clutch Poster Posts: 11,997	Alot of defenders of this trade are saying Peterson will be able to help Julio rebound, I don't buy this, Julio had one good year his first season and then the league figured out how to hit him. He throws a fastball 90% of the time and his other pitches are shit. It's possible that Peterson could help him improve, but this guy will never come close to a 1.99 ERA again. Not even in the National League.

01-21-2006, 11:23 PM	#1376
Jesus Shuttlesworth Posts: 42,765

01-22-2006, 10:01 AM	#1377
The Miz Clutch Poster Posts: 11,997	Red Sox get: OF Coco Crisp Indians get: RP Guillermo Mota 3B Andy Marte

01-22-2006, 10:05 AM	#1378
The Miz Clutch Poster Posts: 11,997	According to the Boston Herald, the Red Sox are going to sign Alex Gonzalez to play short and the Indians will trade for Jason Michaels to fill their outfield gap, sending Arthur Rhodes or Rafael Betancourt to Philadelphia. I like the move for Cleveland, I really don't like either move for Boston.

01-22-2006, 02:00 PM	#1380
The Miz Clutch Poster Posts: 11,997	I love the idea of bringing Crisp to replace Damon, but I don't like giving up Marte for him. Maybe if Cleveland included a couple good prospects. Marte is worth more than Crisp IMO. Alex Gonzalez sucks. There is a better choice, his name is Alex Cora, and he's already on your team.

01-22-2006, 03:30 PM	#1382
The Miz Clutch Poster Posts: 11,997	Won't be that easy. Gonzalez is going to ask for a multi-year deal. He's not going to want to platoon with anyone. He just seems like a waste of time, money and effort when you have Cora and Graffanino capable of doing the job just as well. I still think that whether Gonzalez is signed or not, Dustin Pedroia will be the SS at the end of the season

01-22-2006, 03:37 PM	#1383
YOUR Hero Adminstigator Posts: 102,491	Coco is still rather young. The trade isn't that bad. Crisp is versatile too and has speed. I see it as a good move.

01-22-2006, 03:48 PM	#1384
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	I like that trade a lot more for the Indians

01-22-2006, 03:49 PM	#1385
The Miz Clutch Poster Posts: 11,997	I love Crisp, he just isn't worth Marte. And he isn't a CF

01-22-2006, 03:57 PM	#1386
YOUR Hero Adminstigator Posts: 102,491	Marte is all about potential. One doesn't really know if he'll pan out in the long term. Coco you know what you're getting.

01-22-2006, 04:03 PM	#1387
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	Well Guillermo Mota isn't one of the top relief pitchers or anything either...

01-22-2006, 04:06 PM	#1388
MVP Mas Vagina Porfavor Posts: 11,343	I hate the idea of trading both Marte and Mota for Crisp. I think it's gotta be one or the other, preferrably Mota.

01-22-2006, 04:10 PM	#1389
The Miz Clutch Poster Posts: 11,997	Do you know how he'll hit in Fenway Park? Do you know how he'll handle the Boston media? Do you know if he can hit consistently in the leadoff spot? Do you know if he can be a full-time CF? He's hit .300/.345/.450 his first 2 years, do you know that he will he be able to hit that consistently? Crisp is far from a sure thing. He has a Damon arm and in general is a lousy CF. He strikeouts out too much and walks too few for a leadoff man. His OBP is not great. Alot of prospects turn out to be nothing, but few have dominated every level like Marte has.

01-22-2006, 04:19 PM	#1391
YOUR Hero Adminstigator Posts: 102,491	Marte can handle the Boston press better than Crisp? I would think having a couple of seasons under his belt would give Crisp the edge in that category.

01-22-2006, 04:22 PM	#1392
The Miz Clutch Poster Posts: 11,997	Do you know either guy's personality? For all we know Marte loves the media attention and Crisp wants to be left alone all the time. Crisp does have an edge, but you're acting like Crisp is a 100% surefire thing who has proven himself, and I'm telling you he's not.

01-22-2006, 08:05 PM	#1393
YOUR Hero Adminstigator Posts: 102,491	I'm stating he has proven himself a lot more than Marte has.

01-22-2006, 08:08 PM	#1394
YOUR Hero Adminstigator Posts: 102,491	This just in. Bonds say NO to batting 2nd. What a shock.

01-22-2006, 08:18 PM	#1396
YOUR Hero Adminstigator Posts: 102,491	If it was a rebuilding team, I can understand Cleveland trading for him, but they are considered a contender. A team in that position should go for the proven commodity. Same thing for the Red Sox, only reversed, they get a proven player and not just a potential future guy while they continue to try to win or at least get a wildcard position.