Fantasy Wrestling Thread

[Mister Sinister]

Thanks, I'll add theses results up soon...however I won't be counting the Battle Royal since it doesn't say who won it.

[Volchok]

8th.Battle Royal Featuring all the earlier Wrestlers of the night. I was very disappointed that No Major Names showed up so I left before the end of this Match.

[Mister Sinister]

(1) Shelton Benjamin d. Christian(w/Tomko) by way of roll up.
- Shelton Benjamin (DeadManWalkin) scored 4 Pts.
- Christian (Gouda) scored 2 Pts.
- Tyson Tomko (DeadManWalkin) scored 1 Pt.

(2) Chuck Pulumbo & Rodney Mack d. Maven & Val Venis.
- Maven (Shaggy) scored 2 pts.

(3) Tajiri d. The Hurricane.
- Tajiri (HardKore UK) scored 4 pts.
- The Hurricane (Helmsphere) scored 2 Pts.

(4) Tag Team Title Match - La Resistance d. William Regal & Eugene.
- Rob Conway (EcKo 03 ComPlEX) scored 9 Pts.
- Sylvian Grenier (EcKo 03 ComPlEX) scored 9 Pts.
- William Regal (NoJabbaNoBogRoll) scored 3 Pts.
- Eugene (AssMan) scored 3 Pts.

(5) Rhyno d. Simon Dean.
- Rhyno (HardKore UK) scored 4 Pts.

(6) Randy Orton d. Batista.
- Randy Orton (Splaya) scored 4 Pts.
- Batista (Splaya) scored 2 Pts.

(7) Kane d.Gene Snitzsky
- Kane (AssMan) scored 4 Pts.
- Gene Snitzsky (HardKore UK) scored 2 Pts.

Note - There Was a Battle Royal...But the Poster failed to mention who won it, I would assume it would of been either Orton, Kane or Benjamin, but until I find out, no points will be scored for it...Also Simon Dean will be Added to the Raw Roster Free Agent List...Standings will be Total Up After Raw tonight

[Volchok]

so all i have to do is add the 18 points to my 19 all ready and that will be my point standings?

[Mister Sinister]

Yep...The only reason I'm not updating the Standing Yet, is because I know I'll have to do it in 4 Hours anywayz, once Raw is over...Also know any other sites that might post House Show results as well, since I have yet to see a site that has smackdown ones.

[Volchok]

yeah i'll look...

[Sting Fan]

I think there is some SD house show results on the Rajah main page if you go back a day or two.

[Mister Sinister]

WWE RAW Brand House Show Results
Date: September 25, 2004
Location: Sioux City, Iowa

(1) Rhyno & Tajiri defeated Rodney Mack & Chuck Palumbo.
- Rhyno (HardKore UK) scored 4 Pts.
- Tajiri (HardKore UK) scored 4 pts.

(2) Val Venis defeated Simon Dean by countout.
- No Points Awarded For Free Agents

(3) Tyson Tomko defeated The Hurricane.
- Tyson Tomko (DeadManWalkin) scored 4 Pts.
- The Hurricane (Helmsphere) scored 2 Pts.

(4) Maven defeated Mohammed Hassan by DQ.
- Maven (Shaggy) scored 4 Pts.

(5) Shelton Benjamin defeated Christian.
- Shelton Benjamin (DeadManWalkin) scored 4 Pts.
- Christian (Gouda) scored 2 Pts.

(6) Tag Team Title Match - La Resistance defeated William Regal & Eugene
- Rob Conway (EcKo 03 ComPlEX) scored 7 Pts.
- Sylvian Grenier (EcKo 03 ComPlEX) scored 7 Pts.
- William Regal (NoJabbaNoBogRoll) scored 3 Pts.
- Eugene (AssMan) scored 3 Pts.

(7) Victoria defeated Gail Kim.
- Victoria (Shaggy) scored 4 Pts.

(8) Kane defeated Gene Snitsky.
- Kane (AssMan) scored 4 Pts.
- Gene Snitzsky (HardKore UK) scored 2 Pts.

(9) Chris Benoit & Randy Orton defeated HHH & Batista.
- Randy Orton (Splaya) scored 4 Pts.
- Chris Benoit (HardKore UK) scored 4 Pts.
- Batista (Splaya) scored 2 Pts.
- Triple H (Shaggy) scored 2 Pts.

Also, New Rule in Effect as Of Now, If a Title is defended on House Shows, it no longer gets 5 pts, but will now only receive 3 Points...

[Mister Sinister]

Originally Posted by Sting Fan I think there is some SD house show results on the Rajah main page if you go back a day or two.

What's The Address, since it's no longer in my bookmarks

[Mister Sinister]

Here Are The combined Total Points From the Two Raw House Shows

EcKo 03 ComPlEX - 32 Pts.
HardKore UK - 24 Pts.
AssMan - 14 Pts.
DeadmanWalkin - 13 Pts.
Splaya - 12 Pts.
Shaggy - 12 Pts.
NoJabbaNoBogRoll - 6 Pts.
Helmsphere - 4 Pts.
Gouda - 4 Pts.

[Sting Fan]

It is just Rajah.com but here are the onlt SD house show results I could find

Match 1: Eddie Guerrero vs. Luther Reigns
Surprised to see that a match of this caliber leading off the show. Luther Reigns
got major heat, as much as anyone all night. Eddie, as expected, got the pop of the
night… crowd was intensely wild for him. Various Guerrero T-Shirt wearers
everywhere. Luther dominated the match, and Eddie took some HARD bumps. Eddie
eventually reversed a hold into a DDT, but then he missed the frog splash. However,
he was able to recover, hit 3 belly to belly suplexes, and then the frog splash for
the pin.
WINNER: Eddie Guerrero

Match 2: Shannon Moore vs. Mark Jindrak
Jindrak got some good heat, Moore got a respectful pop. Shannon really dominated
the match until the end when Jindrak hit a huge DDT for the win. You could tell they
were promoting his recent “mean streak” push he’s getting.
WINNER: Mark Jindrak

Match 3: Paul London vs. Billy Kidman
As expected, Kidman walked away from the match promoting his “coward” gimmick. Paul
London ran after him in disgust but was stopped by Heidenreich. Heidenreich
proceeded to beat London brutally and then pulled out a poem and started reading to
a motionless London. But out of the blue, Hardcore Holly showed up and proceeded to
pound Heidenreich, which led to:

Match 4: Hardcore Holly vs. Heidenreich
The most amazing thing in this match was the HUGE pop that Hardcore Holly got, he to
my amazement got one of the biggest of the night. He and Heidenreich had a very
physical power type match, Holly dominated until Heidenreich planted him with a
modified closeline/suplex of some sort that didn’t look impressive as a finishing
move.
WINNER: Heidenreich (obviously no winner between London/Kidman)

Match 5: Booker T vs. Bradshaw
This was a huge surprise. The crowd had a mixed reaction at first because of not
knowing how to react to Booker, but eventually the crowd began to pull for Booker
during the match. JBL got huge heat when he came out. Solid match between the two,
Bradshaw tried to use the title belt to knock out Booker. Bradshaw kicked out of the
scissors kick, Booker T surprisingly kicked out of the clothesline from hell. But
when the ref wasn’t looking, JBL hit Booker with a low blow and ended up rolling him
up for the pin.
WINNER: JBL

Match 6: Funaki and Some Long-Haired skinny dude vs. The Bashams
Here’s a match where a functional sound system would have been in order so we could
have known who the heck Funaki’s partner was. Poor Tony Chimmel had to be losing his
mind not being able to talk into the microphone. He’d test it before each match, but
no luck. The unnamed wrestler started off well against I believe Danny Basham (can’t
say for sure) but Danny took control and Doug tagged in and dominated until Funaki
was able to tag in and cleaned house. They seemed to promote some sort of “can’t
execute as a team” thing with them as they didn’t execute well in certain spots, and
at one point when Danny? went to tag in Doug? he ended up knocking him off the ring
onto the floor below. This match is where the idiots in front of us got worse about
standing up where we couldn’t see, but somehow from what I could tell, Funaki ended
up hitting a quick move on _____ Basham or rolled him up or something and got the
pin.
WINNER: Funaki & Long-haired jobber who wasn’t a jobber tonight b/c his team won.

Match 7: Charlie Haas & Rico vs. Rene Dupree & Kenzo Suzuki (w/Gaysha girl)
Before Long’s mic cut out at the start of the show, it sounded like that Long had
put the Tag Titles on the line in this match. (Like they’d change at a House Show!)
Pretty much as you would expect in this match. Dupree & Suzuki got booed and “USA!”
chants started which Haas & Rico encouraged. The crowd was heckling Dupree and Rene
lipped “kiss my ass” to some guys in front of my friend and I, we both caught it and
laughed. Rico was in high gear with his “ambiguously gay” gimmick… he kept pissing
off Kenzo during the match… crowd went nuts for it. Again, the matches were
becoming hard to see, but the Gaysha girl ended up throwing powder into Rico’s eyes
and Rico ended up getting pinned. (At this point, ready to go beat up the people in
front of us that wouldn’t SIT DOWN!)
WINNER: Dupree/Kenzo

Match 8: FBI vs. Spike & D-Von Dudley
Horrible match. The people in front of us that wouldn’t sit down got into it with
D-Von. I couldn’t believe the heat that D-Von got, I could care less about this
match and this point was sitting and didn’t care whether I could see or not. The
crowd is still not used to the idea that the FBI are supposed to be faces now so not
much reaction for them. Somehow I think Stamboli got the pin on D-Von.
WINNER: FBI

Match 9: Big Show vs. Kurt Angle
FINALLY! The match we’d waited for all night! Huge heat for Angle of course, good
pop for Big Show. Angle sold a “cowardly heel” gimmick to Show as he kept leaving
the ring and acting all scared. When the match finally started Big Show dominated,
Angle took some rough bumps (seemingly too rough for his bad neck!) Luther Reigns
came to ringside and interfered which allowed Angle to get the advantage. Angle went
after the leg of Big Show, putting him in the ankle lock. Big Show spun out of that,
but Angle got a new grip on his leg and started doing arm drops on his left calf.
Show sold a sore leg. Luther tried to interfere again but got tossed out of the
ring for his trouble. Then Jindrak came to the ring and tried to get involved (can
you say Angle/Reigns/Jindrak Evolution-clone faction coming soon?!) Big Show ended
up catching Angle in a choke slam and got the pin. Good match, but way too short for
a main event.
WINNER: Big Show

[Volchok]

okay so right as of now i have 36 points adding the Smackdown House Show... cant wait for Raw...

[Mister Sinister]

Yep You Do...

Quick Note Before Raw

Mohammed Hassan has been added to the Raw Free Agent Lists
If You Wish to make an Transactions to Count, you have to before Raw starts to do so...

Also, I'm Adding Gail Kim to my Roster

[Sting Fan]

I will stick with my current roster and rely on SD and Impact to keep me on top of the board.

[Mister Sinister]

Raw Results (Spoilers)

(1) Opening - Triple H & Shelton Benjamin Segment
- Triple H (First Apperance) scored 2 Pts. (Shaggy)
- Shelton Benjamin (First Apperance) scored 2 Pts. (DeadManWalkin)

(2) Shelton Benjamin d. Triple H by DQ
- Shelton Benjamin (DeadManWalkin) scored 3 Pts.
- Triple H (Shaggy) scored 2 Pts.

[Mister Sinister]

Raw Results (Spoilers)

(1) Opening - Triple H & Shelton Benjamin Segment
- Triple H (First Apperance) scored 2 Pts. (Shaggy)
- Shelton Benjamin (First Apperance) scored 2 Pts. (DeadManWalkin)

(2) Shelton Benjamin d. Triple H by DQ
- Shelton Benjamin (DeadManWalkin) scored 3 Pts.
- Triple H (Shaggy) scored 2 Pts.

(3) Simon Dean Promo
-No Points For Free Agents

(4) The Hurricane & Rosey d. Rhyno & Tajiri
- The Hurricane (Helmsphere) scored 7 Pts.
- Rosey (Helmsphere) scored 7 Pts.
- Rhyno (HardKore UK) scored 4 Pts.
- Tajiri (HardKore UK) scored 4 Pts.

(5) Kane Getting Ready For Interview
- Kane (First Apperance) scored 2 Pts. (AssMan)

(6) Kane Interview
- Kane (AssMan) scored 1 Pt.

(7) William Regal/Eugene/Chris Benoit Segment
- William Regal (NoJabbaNoBogRoll) scored 2 Pts.
- Chris Benoit (HardKore UK) scored 2 Pts.
- Eugene (Assman) scored 2 Pts.

(8) Gene Snitzsky d. Val Venis
- *Gene Snitzsky (HardKore UK) scored 8 Pts.
- No Points For Free Agents

(9) Ric Flair/Randy Orton Segment
- Ric Flair (Gouda) scored 2 Pts.
- Randy Orton (Splaya) scored 2 Pts.

(10) Christian & Tyson Tomko d. Shawn Michaels & Chris Jericho
- Christian (Gouda) scored 7 Pts.
- Tyson Tomko (DeadManWalkin) scored 7 Pts
- Chris Jericho (AssMan) scored 4 Pts.
- Shawn Michaels (EcKo 03 ComPlEX) scored 4 Pts.

(11) Triple H/Batista Segment
- Triple H (Shaggy) scored 1 Pt.
- Batista (Splaya) scored 2 Pts.

(12) Eugene/William Regal Segment
- William Regal (NoJabbaNoBogRoll) scored 1 Pts.
- Eugene (AssMan) scored 1 Pt.

(13) Diva Segment

[Mister Sinister]

Raw Results

(1) Opening - Triple H & Shelton Benjamin Segment
- Triple H (First Apperance) scored 2 Pts. (Shaggy)
- Shelton Benjamin (First Apperance) scored 2 Pts. (DeadManWalkin)

(2) Shelton Benjamin d. Triple H by DQ
- Shelton Benjamin (DeadManWalkin) scored 3 Pts.
- Triple H (Shaggy) scored 2 Pts.

(3) Simon Dean Promo
-No Points For Free Agents

(4) The Hurricane & Rosey d. Rhyno & Tajiri
- The Hurricane (Helmsphere) scored 7 Pts.
- Rosey (Helmsphere) scored 7 Pts.
- Rhyno (HardKore UK) scored 4 Pts.
- Tajiri (HardKore UK) scored 4 Pts.

(5) Kane Getting Ready For Interview
- Kane (First Apperance) scored 2 Pts. (AssMan)

(6) Kane Interview
- Kane (AssMan) scored 1 Pt.

(7) William Regal/Eugene/Chris Benoit Segment
- William Regal (NoJabbaNoBogRoll) scored 2 Pts.
- Chris Benoit (HardKore UK) scored 2 Pts.
- Eugene (Assman) scored 2 Pts.

(8) Gene Snitzsky d. Val Venis
- *Gene Snitzsky (HardKore UK) scored 8 Pts.
- No Points For Free Agents

(9) Ric Flair/Randy Orton Segment
- Ric Flair (Gouda) scored 2 Pts.
- Randy Orton (Splaya) scored 2 Pts.

(10) Christian & Tyson Tomko d. Shawn Michaels & Chris Jericho
- Christian (Gouda) scored 7 Pts.
- Tyson Tomko (DeadManWalkin) scored 7 Pts
- Chris Jericho (AssMan) scored 4 Pts.
- Shawn Michaels (EcKo 03 ComPlEX) scored 4 Pts.

(11) Triple H/Batista Segment
- Triple H (Shaggy) scored 1 Pt.
- Batista (Splaya) scored 2 Pts.

(12) Eugene/William Regal Segment
- William Regal (NoJabbaNoBogRoll) scored 1 Pts.
- Eugene (AssMan) scored 1 Pt.

(13) Diva Segment
- Trish Stratus (AssMan) scored 2 Pts.
- Gail Kim (Helmsphere) scored 2 Pts.
- Christy Hemme (EcKo 03 ComPlEX) scored 2 Pts.

(14) Bra & Panties - Trish Stratus/Gail Kim/Molly d. Christy Hemme
- Trish Stratus (AssMan) Scored 7 Pts.
- Gail Kim (Helmsphere) Scored 7 Pts.
- Christy Hemme (EcKo 03 ComPlEX) scored 3 Pts.

(15) Batista/Flair Backstage Segment
- Batista (Splaya) Scored 1 Pt.
- Ric Flair (Gouda) Scored 1 Pt.

(16) NO DQ - Batista d. Randy Orton
- Batista (Splaya) Scored 7 Pts.
- Randy Orton (Splaya) Scored 3 Pts.
- Triple H (Shaggy) Scored 1 Pt
- Ric Flair (Gouda) Scored 1 Pt.

* Gene Snitzsky Scored a Extra 1 Pt for his Earlier Interview

[Mister Sinister]

Smackdown Houseshow Results from 9/26

(1) Eddie Guerrero d. Luther Reigns
- Eddie Guerrero (Helmsphere) scored 4 Pts.
- Luther Reigns (NoJabbaNoBogRoll) scored 2 Pts.

(2) Mark Jindrak d. Shannon Moore
- Mark Jindrak (EcKo 03 ComPlEX) scored 4 Pts.

(3) Paul London v. Kidman - No Contest
- Paul London (The Fugitive) scored 1 Pt.
- Kidman (Gouda) scored 1 Pt.

(4) Heidenreich d. Hardcore Holly
- Heidenreich (legendkiller) scored 4 Pts.

(5) WWE Title Match - John Bradshaw Leyfield d. Booker T
- Booker T (DeadManWalkin) scored 3 Pts.

(6) WWE Tag Team Title Match - Kenzo Susuki & Rene Dupree d. Rico & Charlie Haas
- Kenzo Susuki (Sting Fan) scored 7 Pts.
- Rene Dupree (HardKore UK) scored 7 Pts.
- Rico (Sting Fan) scored 3 Pts.
- Charlie Haas (Gouda) scored 3 Pts.

(7) FBI d. Spike & D'Von Dudley
- Nunzio (Gouda) scored 4 Pts.
- Spike Dudley (Sting Fan) scored 2 Pts.
- D'Von Dudley (HardKore UK) scored 2 Pts.

(8) Big Show d. Kurt Angle (Jindrak & Reigns Interfere)
- Big Show (Sting Fan) scored 4 Pts.
- Kurt Angle (Gouda) scored 2 Pts.
- Mark Jindrak (EcKo 03 ComPlEX) scored 1 Pts.
- Luther Reigns (NoJabbaNoBogRoll) scored 1 Pt.

[Mister Sinister]

Here Are The Combined Point Totals From the Past Four Shows

HardKore UK - 51 Pts.
EcKo 03 ComPlEX - 42 Pts.
AssMan - 33 Pts.
Helmsphere - 31 Pts.
DeadmanWalkin - 28 Pts
Splaya - 27 Pts.
Gouda - 25 Pts.
Shaggy - 18 Pts.
Sting Fan 16 Pts.
NoJabbaNoBogRoll - 12 Pts.
legendkiller - 4 Pts.
The Fugitive - 1 Pt.

[Mister Sinister]

Updated Standings (As Of 9/28/04)

HardKore UK: 78 Pts
EcKo 03 ComPlEX: 61 Pts
Sting Fan: 57 Pts.
Assman: 55 Pts.
Helmsphere: 50 Pts.
Gouda: 50 Pts.
DeadManWalkin: 48 Pts
Splaya: 44 Pts.
Shaggy: 39 Pts
LegendKiller: 27 Pts.
NoJabbaNoBogRoll: 20 Pt.
The Fugitive : 15 Pts.

[Sting Fan]

So overall I would have about 53 right?

[Mister Sinister]

Current Rosters As Of 9/29/04


Gouda Roster
Kurt Angle $45,000
Christian $27,000
Charlie Haas $18,000
Billy Kidman $17,000
Johnny Stamboli - $15,000
Nunzio - $15,000
Simon Dean - $5,000
Total Costs $142,000/150,000


Assman Roster
Chris Jericho $35,000
Kane $30,000
Jeff Hardy - $30,000
Trish Stratus $25,000
Eugene $20,000
Shark Boy - $10,000
Total Costs $150,000/$150,000

Helmsphere Roster
Eddie Guerrero - $38,000
A.J Styles - $30,000
Christopher Daniels - $18,000
Gail Kim - $18,000
Carlito Carribean Cool - $15,000
The Hurricane - $12,000
Rosey - $10,000
Total Costs $141,000/$150,000

Legendkiller Roster
The Undertaker - $45,000
Jeff Jarrett - $35,000
Abyss - $25,000
Chris Harris - $25,000
John Heidenreich - $20,000
Total Costs $150,000/$150,000

Sting Fan Roster
Big Show - $35,000
Monty Brown - $25,000
James Storm - $23,000
Spike Dudley - $20,000
Kenzo Susuki - $20,000
Rico - $18,000
Chad Collyer - $5,000
Muhammad Hussan - $3,000
Total Costs $149,000/$150,000

The Fugitive Roster
John Cena - $35,000
Rey Mysterio - $25,000
Paul London - $12,000
Total Costs $72,000/$150,000

Shaggy's Roster
Triple H - $45,000
Victoria - $25,000
Maven - $10,000
Total Costs $80,000/$150,000

Splaya Roster
Randy Orton - $38,000
Batista - $27,000
Total Costs $65,000/$150,000

EcKo 03 ComPlEX Roster
Shawn Michaels - $35,000
Lita - $25,000
Stacey Kiebler - $23,000
Sylvian Grenier - $18,000
Rob Conway - $18,000
Mark Jendrak - $15,000
The Rock $5,000
Test - $5,000
Christy Hemme - $3,000
Total Costs $147,000/$150,000

HardKore UK Roster
Chris Benoit - $35,000
Rene Dupree - $25,000
Tajiri - $20,000
Petey Williams - $20,000
Rhyno - $20,000
D'Von Dudley $20,000
Bobby Rude $5,000
Gene Snitzsky $1,000
Total Costs $146,000/$150,000

DeadManWalkin Roster
Booker T - $35,000
Rob Van Dam - $30,000
Edge - $30,000
Shelton Benjamin - $25,000
Tyson Tomko - $15,000
Chavo Guerrero - $15,000
Total Costs $150,000/$150,000

NoJabbaNoBogRoll Roster
Luther Reigns - $25,000
William Regal - $22,000
Bubba Ray Dudley - $20,000
Torrie Wilson - $10,000
Viscera - $7,000
Total Costs $84,000/$150,000

[Sting Fan]

Wow Hardkore UK had a really good day with his picks good choices man. Now I supose we sit back and see how all of the Impact and SD picks perform.

[Sting Fan]

Oh and I will take Hassan as my pick for today.

[Gouda]

*Gouda is stuck in mid-card hell*

I just have to say this whole idea was

[Mike the Metal Ed]

Gene Snitzky... $1,000 wonderboy.

[Mister Sinister]

Originally Posted by HardKore UK Gene Snitzky... $1,000 wonderboy.

Yeah, He is actually getting you some points, Why Val lost to him, as well as Chucky P. without really any offense is beyond me.

But as I think alot of people are finding out...Tag Teams are a good idea in theses things, Hell I'm really thinking about adding the FBI to mine roster here soon if the TNA guys don't kick up the pace

[Sting Fan]

Mohammed Hassan is my draft for today please. I put him further up but I think you missed it.

[OssMan]

I already took Shark Boy, can you add him to my roster

[Mister Sinister]

I Forgot To Add Something

Dark Match From Raw
Muhammad Hussan d. Some Jobber via Camel Clutch
- Muhammad Hussan (Sting Fan) scored 4 Pts.

The Standings have been re-updated above

[Volchok]

wow me and HardKore UK are in the lead... good luck to ya and when do we declare a winner?

[Mister Sinister]

Originally Posted by EcKo 03 ComPlEX wow me and HardKore UK are in the lead... good luck to ya and when do we declare a winner?

Funny You Should Mention that. I'm not exactly sure, I was thinking of maybe, of converting it into a Head To Head League, using the points to deceide who wins, and ending it when everyone faces atleast every person twice and then having a 4 Man Tournament to crown the winner after that...unless you guys have other ideas...the Plan is to move that into effect next week before Raw

[Sting Fan]

It sounds like a good idea I look forward to it.

[Volchok]

okay im so glad i picked Jindrak because he's scoring me some points for Smackdown...

[Gouda]

I hereby release Ric Flair and sign Johnny Stamboli and Simon Dean.

[Mister Sinister]

Originally Posted by Gouda I hereby release Ric Flair and sign Johnny Stamboli and Simon Dean.

Added...And I'll offer you a Trade, Eddie Guerrero for The FBI

[The Answer]

If Splaya wants to deal Orton I'll take him.Offer me something if u do

Viscera.

[Gouda]

Originally Posted by Helmsphere Added...And I'll offer you a Trade, Eddie Guerrero for The FBI

No deal! That Moon Money is mine!

*hugs his tag team*

It seems we have all realized tag teams = Major pointage! Well... maybe not major...

[Volchok]

okay so when are the smackdown points gonna be up? thursday...?